Hoyer will start !
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He's a brick wall that's playing a broken record. He'll spin what you say. Just give it up. Dude is dense or trolling.
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someone had mentioned to me that it might be johnny himself.
that would be sad. like his 3 plays in the first half.
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The big thing is that Hoyer led the Browns to wins in his limited exposure.
He started, yes. That's legit. but led? IDK about that. His stats weren't that great.
Everyone wants Manziel to instantly start, but he hasn't even played a snap in an actual NFL game yet, unlike Hoyer, so there is absolutely no reason to rush him.
I agree there is no reason to rush Manziel. Who cares about winning? "No" reason?
Unlike Manziel, Hoyer hasn't taken game snaps in 5 straight weeks in over 5 seasons. this idea that Hoyer is experienced is odd to me. He's experienced at practice; let's not overstate this one. Dude hasn't even started 25% of a single NFL season. One season he spent on the practice squad.
I want whoever is going to win us games to start, but I firmly believe that Hoyer is that guy as of this moment in time given his experience.
Resign Vince!
Until they get into an actual game we really just don't know because I know Weeden looked like a superstar last night in his first preseason game and we all know how legit that was.
Finally. I agree.
it's just odd to me practice squad snaps count but SEC snaps don't.
it's just odd to me practice squad snaps count but SEC snaps don't.
NFL practice reps resemble the NFL games more than college ball by an overwhelming margin.
you can get away with a lot of sloppy ball playing even in the SEC.
do you shoot TX? i see SEC vs NFL kinda like iron sights vs a scope.
feel free to agree or disagree.
if you agree, the differences should be evident. if you disagree, you probably don't watch a whole lot of non-mainstream NFL. by that i mean scouring every piece of NFL practice footage you can get ur hands on...as opposed to just viewing regular games.
how about an amicable impasse until there is more info available?
...maybe something such as an admission from JFF himself stating how much more sophisticated the pro game is in every way: how much larger, faster, stronger, talented, and athletic the other players are and how much quicker the speed is at which the players play. how much smaller the windows are along with the time they are open and closed. how much more savvy and disciplined the opposing defenses are. how much more accurate you have to be with your ball placement. how much more you have to take care of the ball, both in the air and general ball security.
taking snaps under center needs to become like 2nd nature. he also must avoid abandoning the pocket but instead stay inside it and learn how to climb it keeping the play alive for the reception...as opposed to lowering his own helmet and taking unnecessary (and stupid) risks.
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Hey Hoorta I'm going to guess you play the lottery all the time right?
I mean because you MIGHT win right? I mean it's happened to people before, so its perfectly logical to think it could happen to you. I hope you don't fly because people have died in plane crashes before. It MIGHT happen to you too. Be careful. Especially at the beach, shark attack man. Shark Attacks.
Perfectly logical.Hey Hoorta I'm going to guess you play the lottery all the time right?
I mean because you MIGHT win right? I mean it's happened to people before, so its perfectly logical to think it could happen to you. I hope you don't fly because people have died in plane crashes before. It MIGHT happen to you too. Be careful. Especially at the beach, shark attack man. Shark Attacks.
Perfectly logical.
Well, duh, duh, duh. BTW, I avoid the ocean- because of sharks and other nasty things that live there. You're giving Hoyer about as much chance as the earth getting hit by an asteroid tomorrow, I put Brian's odds as significantly better being the starting qb against the Steelers. Yup, the talking heads on NFLN still have Hoyer as slightly ahead after the Lions game-
Oh, I hate Manziel so bad I personally had JF slightly ahead of Hoyer in the Lions game.
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Hey Hoorta I'm going to guess you play the lottery all the time right?
I mean because you MIGHT win right? I mean it's happened to people before, so its perfectly logical to think it could happen to you. I hope you don't fly because people have died in plane crashes before. It MIGHT happen to you too. Be careful. Especially at the beach, shark attack man. Shark Attacks.
Perfectly logical.
Well, duh, duh, duh. BTW, I avoid the ocean- because of sharks and other nasty things that live there. You're giving Hoyer about as much chance as the earth getting hit by an asteroid tomorrow, I put Brian's odds as significantly better being the starting qb against the Steelers. Yup, the talking heads on NFLN still have Hoyer as slightly ahead after the Lions game-
Oh, I hate Manziel so bad I personally had JF slightly ahead of Hoyer in the Lions game.
the talking heads on NFLN still have Hoyer as slightly ahead after the Lions game-
Oh, I hate Manziel so bad I personally had JF slightly ahead of Hoyer in the Lions game.
Manziel is the better QB and gives the Browns the best chance to be great. Hoyer is done.
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Manziel is the better QB and gives the Browns the best chance to be great. Hoyer is done.
That's your 0.02 Great- after 14 posts, join the rest of the Johnny come latelies that aren't even giving Hoyer a legit shot- that's all we're asking for Hoyer- a guy who went undefeated last year , FYI.
Unlike the A&M crowd, Browns fans aren't in awe of college stats. Manziel looked good tonight -in preseason. So did Brandon Weeden last year. Baby steps guys.
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"Unlike the A&M crowd, Browns fans aren't in awe of college stats. Manziel looked good tonight -in preseason. So did Brandon Weeden last year. Baby steps guys".
Backpedaling and looking for excuses. And Weeden is not even close to touching Johnny. Try again.
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Sorry, but snaps vs Alabama in a national televised game that means your season > snaps on a Tuesday closed practice mimicking someone else
Sorry, but snaps vs Alabama in a national televised game that means your season > snaps on a Tuesday closed practice mimicking someone else
thank you for helping me realize it's pointless to debate pro american football vs high school and college ball with you. we're not talking about Scrambles running the scout team. we're talking about him becoming proficient at executing Shanahan's PRO offense against Pettine's PRO defense. it's a NFL game-day simulation. snaps vs Alabama are not.
i really believe you are just not that familiar with the pro game. im happy the big lights and cameras won't be too big a stage for him...but honestly when is the last time that was really a factor for ANYONE in the league. lots of nfl guys still puke on every single game-day...and they wipe their mouth and go out there and produce anyway.
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"Unlike the A&M crowd, Browns fans aren't in awe of college stats. Manziel looked good tonight -in preseason. So did Brandon Weeden last year. Baby steps guys".
Backpedaling and looking for excuses. And Weeden is not even close to touching Johnny. Try again.
"Unlike the A&M crowd, Browns fans aren't in awe of college stats. Manziel looked good tonight -in preseason. So did Brandon Weeden last year. Baby steps guys".
Backpedaling and looking for excuses. And Weeden is not even close to touching Johnny. Try again.
Just go away, now. Please. Manziel has to earn my respect- he's done an admirable job of that- starting the beginning of training camp. I've only said about 100 times "show me" OK JFF showed me something Saturday. He also "showed" me he still has a propensity to run, when he has receivers wide open, and he still is an injury risk with his running style- which Manziel admitted in his post game presser he has to get better at. If you guys think Manziel is a finished NFL product- try harder. You guys think I'm going to kill myself if Manziel beats out Hoyer? Nothing could be farther from the truth.
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Oh that..
While he will start this season, he will not start THE season...
That ought to blow Stockman's mind...
By your own logic, why would Manziel start at all this season? If Hoyer starts Week 1, and is as good as you think he is, then why would Manziel become to the starter in the middle of the season?
HoyerHater said:
By your own logic, why would Manziel start at all this season? If Hoyer starts Week 1, and is as good as you think he is, then why would Manziel become to the starter in the middle of the season?
Injury.
We have a tendency to go through QB's - had quite a few changes last year, won't be surprised to see it this year (unfortunately).
how could anyone who calls themselves a Browns fan not realize we have gone through 3 or 4 QB's a season more often than not? seriously?
when i recently heard there were times when the Cowboys rolled w only Romo and only one or even NO other backups i was in complete disbelief. understanding this i can see how some of the Texas locale doesn't quite get why the Browns would try to insulate the position better than some other franchises apparently do.
HoyerHater said:
Because I'm telling you Hoyer isn't the guy?
That's funny because the real Coach and GM of the Browns already told you Hoyer wasn't the guy by drafting a QB in round 1. That was their clue to the rest of you that Hoyer, is a backup QB.
when did they say that? show me a link.
you certain it wasn't as insurance against Hoyer's knee injury combined with the value they got for Manziel at #22? Eric Mangini once said nowadays with injuries it's almost getting to be where one franchise QB on the team is not enough. he also said some philosophies around the league believe in taking a QB every single draft.
in any given moment all players on the roster are just an injury away from being on IR and out for the season. it could happen on any play on any day at any time.
yet, some want Manziel to start taking his lumps asap regardless if there is a better chance of winning for a few games or so starting Hoyer.
so what happens if they were to tank this season dedicating it a losing year for the sake of Manziel's growing pains to try to get him up to speed...and he doesn't GET up to speed?
or even if all looks good thru 2015 preseason then what if say...on the first series next year in the first game we lose him for the season to some crazy ass injury (!). what's the plan then after going all-in on one player? a billion dollar organization putting everything on the line, all the eggs in one basket, based simply on Johnny's potential durability??
in an ideal situation you should have at least two QBs on the roster that are at minimum solid starters. it's like CBs...you can never have too many (as long as you can afford them both). the key is having two that are cap friendly...like the two low cost options the Brown's currently have in their hot shot rookie 1st rd pick and their solid hometown vet in his prime who has the mind and the tools but conveniently does not have the experience to command a huge salary as of yet, for example.
HoyerHater said:
Once again, proving that being realistic about Hoyer makes you not knowledgeable, but instead a "Manziel lover".
Oh yeah and good call on saying nobody said Manziel wasn't drafted to be the starter, post #185
Looking real good TCPO. Good calls all around.
don't be dishonest and cherry-pick my post to try to make your point. although i did say what you quoted it was without context and semantics >> you know exactly what i meant, which is why you conveniently left the context out.
the point of my post was that JFF was not drafted to SIMPLY be the starter...he was drafted to be the future franchise QB of the Browns.
oh and btw Mr 209...go fuck yourself.
Okay, I admit I didn't see that. And I don't agree with sisky on that front.
The thing is, we're saying the same things. But you're so blinded by whatever it is you think you're trying to prove that you don't realize it.
actually Tim you may, just not out of context. here's post #185:
as long as we're speaking hypothetically and putting words in other's mouths, my version has this fantasy closer to something like this:
"We have a promising and competent looking vet QB in his prime...but he's just coming back from an injury. With a billion dollar organization, that is plain and simply not enough to go into a season with. At draft time, when we saw a guy who was rated high by many accounts slide to #22, at that value we felt it was worth taking a shot on him to help fill our needs. He's a high risk/high reward boom or bust kid with insane intangibles...but has a reckless--yet very effective vs college players--playing style.
Between the two, we feel we're going into this season with each of them off-setting the risks of the other. But you never know, we very well may draft a QB again next year...and to that end, it's fortunate that we have some extra ammo in the form of the 1st rd pick we got from the Bills."
>> that same pick they felt was more valuable and important to acquire "just in case" than draft ANY of the QB's at the top of the draft.
what you suggest by tossing the evaluating process and going "all-in" on Manziel is akin to gambling. the gambler approach can help you lose your franchise.
grinders take the long view and hedge their bets...and put themselves in advantageous positions to take down the gamblers at the right moment. taking this grifter attitude to the NFL has won superbowls.
they did not draft JFF to be the starter. they drafted Manziel for the exact same reason they acquired Thigpen, Young, Shaw, same reason the previous FO acquired Hoyer...FOR A CHANCE TO FIND THE CLEVELAND BROWNS FRANCHISE QB OF THE FUTURE!!
starting is temporary, and a band-aid won't get CLE a ring. reality is it's Franchise QB or bust.
fwiw Shaw had the fastest time of all QB's at the combine (4.62) and had the best touchdown to interception ratio in the NCAA. same as ur Johnny's "Lumbergh" i'd bet somewhere out there Connor Shaw has a version of his own Lumbergh as well. we regulars are not Lumbergh's for Hoyer. we are Browns fans, plain and simple. even the day Belicheat benched Bernie, never stopped being a Browns fan for a second my entire life. you will never understand this mentality. you are a grifter troll attempting to be guile using a poor Browns guise--a Manziel fan in fake Browns clothing. and had Manziel been drafted by another of the 31 other teams, you would be posing as a fan of theirs trolling their boards as i type this.
if you wanna crown em prematurely by all means have at it fanboy, crown em. if Manziel ever happens to become that guy ur trophy will still say nothing more than "you happened to guess right"
banjoBanjo said:
Watching HoyerHater crush skulls on this thread reminds me of that hypothetical about how many six year olds you could take-out at one time in a no-holds barred brawl.
LMAO is that really what you think is happening? LOL! he hasn't won one single debate here...he's just saying what you want to hear. not the same thing. oh, and btw go fuck yourself too.
I'll take the 200 posts I was right about over the one I was wrong about.
But you can hang onto that one, I know you need it. Might even want to print it out and get it framed.
you weren't wrong, i made that comment tongue-in-cheek. his black glove defense just blew the fuck up.
now if i can just get everyone to stop quoting this dick then i won't have to see any his posts at all anymore.
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"Unlike the A&M crowd, Browns fans aren't in awe of college stats. Manziel looked good tonight -in preseason. So did Brandon Weeden last year. Baby steps guys".
Backpedaling and looking for excuses. And Weeden is not even close to touching Johnny. Try again.
Lord have mercy. Does Texas public education not teach reading comprehension. You guys are dumb as shit. No one ever compared Johnny to Weeden. They only said Weeden looked like a stud in preseason and he turned out to be shit."Unlike the A&M crowd, Browns fans aren't in awe of college stats. Manziel looked good tonight -in preseason. So did Brandon Weeden last year. Baby steps guys".
Backpedaling and looking for excuses. And Weeden is not even close to touching Johnny. Try again.
And what's with all this, you guys are back pedaling because if you don't don Johnny now, you can't claim on the internet that you thought he was great. Who the fuck cares?
You manzielites are such whiney ass holes who can even have a decent debate. I never met a crowd who are all so enamoured with a kid and that all have an IQ level just above Retarded. You all have the same traits. Its amazing.
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The reason they are making the QB decision after the second game is so they get a good look not only at JM with and against the 1's , but Hoyer with the leaky 2 Oline against 2's.
Pettine says he wants a fair eval of both QB's and that does seem fair to both. Whichever one starts will be just fine-very comfortable with either which is a good position for a new coach to be in.
I am much more interested in seeing who they pick up off waivers for the OL 2's because the ones they have right now are not that good. I'm very happy with DL 2's.
Lines win football and D lines win Championships.
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The reason they are making the QB decision after the second game is so they get a good look not only at JM with and against the 1's , but Hoyer with the leaky 2 Oline against 2's.
Pettine says he wants a fair eval of both QB's and that does seem fair to both. Whichever one starts will be just fine-very comfortable with either which is a good position for a new coach to be in.
I am much more interested in seeing who they pick up off waivers for the OL 2's because the ones they have right now are not that good. I'm very happy with DL 2's.
Lines win football and D lines win Championships.
Lines win football and D lines win Championships.
Sic 'em, Ghoolie, sic 'em...
Eric Mangini... said some philosophies around the league believe in taking a QB every single draft.
don't be dishonest and cherry-pick my post to try to make your point. although i did say what you quoted it was without context and semantics >> you know exactly what i meant, which is why you conveniently left the context out.
the point of my post was that JFF was not drafted to SIMPLY be the starter...he was drafted to be the future franchise QB of the Browns.
actually Tim you may, just not out of context. here's post #185:
you weren't wrong, i made that comment tongue-in-cheek. his black glove defense just blew the fuck up.
now if i can just get everyone to stop quoting this dick then i won't have to see any his posts at all anymore.
Guess I agree with the Mangenius since my QB philosophy is that you always need to be looking for your next one.
On cherry picking... I've come to the conclusion that is not what Stocky is doing. He's simply too far down the rabbit hole to take the real meaning.
On TCPO... was wondering what he thought he was wrong about... now I know... and, no, he was not (see above).
And I will take the no quote pledge. It will not be easy as there is so much to correct, but I will try. It will help that there are better uses of my time like going all Kreskin on a spoon. The odds of succeeding there are greater anyway...
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The reason they are making the QB decision after the second game is so they get a good look not only at JM with and against the 1's , but Hoyer with the leaky 2 Oline against 2's.
Pettine says he wants a fair eval of both QB's and that does seem fair to both. Whichever one starts will be just fine-very comfortable with either which is a good position for a new coach to be in.
I am much more interested in seeing who they pick up off waivers for the OL 2's because the ones they have right now are not that good. I'm very happy with DL 2's.
Lines win football and D lines win Championships.
The reason they are making the QB decision after the second game is so they get a good look not only at JM with and against the 1's , but Hoyer with the leaky 2 Oline against 2's.
Pettine says he wants a fair eval of both QB's and that does seem fair to both. Whichever one starts will be just fine-very comfortable with either which is a good position for a new coach to be in.
I am much more interested in seeing who they pick up off waivers for the OL 2's because the ones they have right now are not that good. I'm very happy with DL 2's.
Lines win football and D lines win Championships.
It's closer than I thought it would be, regarding the quarterbacks. JF did impress me with much better arm strength than I expected.
You're right about o-line other than Gilkey, not much depth.
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They have to give Manziel the starting nod against Washington on Monday.
I just want to see him with the 1's.
I think both QB's looked very crisp.
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