Oh look it's the Cleveland Browns forum.

Zombo

@bangobango said:

It took Manning four years to win an SEC championship. It also took him four years to throw for 11k yards. Johnny had 8k in two years.

And if Johnny were three inches taller he'd been the first pick of the draft, no question. As it is, he's still the shortest qb taken in the first round in sixty years.

Oh yeah, and he's also the first freshman to ever win a heisman, which I heard is also a pretty big deal.

Thanks for chirping in but the original statement was that Manning did not accomplish anything close to Manziel at age 21.

Here's Manning at age 21:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/peyton-manning-1.html

Here's Manziel at age 21

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/johnny-manziel-1.html

I think you do, indeed, have to say Manning was "close" if you favor Manziel

Both of their entire college careers were completed when they were 21.

Manning turned 22 right before he was drafted, while Johnny turns 22 in December, so he can certainly add to his accomplishments if he can beat out an NFL journeyman and start racking up some NFL history.

Zombo

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

But when it is all you have...

Since the Heisman has become more of a QB award, 13 of the last 14 were QBs, an unprecedented period, the Heisman QB HOFer count is bound to change rapidly.

Name any one that right now has a chance to become a HOFer? No one, as I documented above. If rapid change comes it won't come very rapidly....as in any time soon. There will not be a Heisman winning QB make the HOF for at least another 15 years. Like I said, the guys with some potential: Newton, RGIII, JFF....have practically their entire careers ahead of them.....then they will have another 5 year wait.

That is not to say that there won't be QBs inducted. Many will be......none of which though who won the Heisman.

Tour2ma

@the-gipper said:

Name any one that right now has a chance to become a HOFer? No one, as I documented above. If rapid change comes it won't come very rapidly....as in any time soon. There will not be a Heisman winning QB make the HOF for at least another 15 years. Like I said, the guys with some potential: Newton, RGIII, JFF....have practically their entire careers ahead of them.....then they will have another 5 year wait.

That is not to say that there won't be QBs inducted. Many will be......none of which though who won the Heisman.

Not a matter of being able to pick one now. As long as the Heisman continues its QB-fest, it's just numbers.

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:
Not a matter of being able to pick one now. As long as the Heisman continues its QB-fest, it's just numbers.

Not denying that........unless they keep picking the Matt Leinert's, Jason Whites, Eric Crouches.

I mean how do we know right now, really, if Cam is not going to be another Leinert....or the JFF will be Jason White....or the RGIII won't be ERic Crouch?

(well I think at this point Cam and RG have already far surpassed those other guys)

But it will still be 15 years.

Tour2ma

@the-gipper said:
But it will still be 15 years.

And may we still be here to see it...

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:
And may we still be here to see it...

It really isn't that important to me.....I figure that there will be any number of other non-Heisman winning QBs going into the HOF before any of the Heisman guys:

Favre

Brees

Brady

Peyton

Warner

Rodgers

Roethlisberger

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

McNabb....not

Eli.....if he won one more he could not be kept out

Rivers...no

Romo....no

anyone else at all?

Taco918

@the-gipper said:

Not denying that........unless they keep picking the Matt Leinert's, Jason Whites, Eric Crouches.

I mean how do we know right now, really, if Cam is not going to be another Leinert....or the JFF will be Jason White....or the RGIII won't be ERic Crouch?

(well I think at this point Cam and RG have already far surpassed those other guys)

But it will still be 15 years.

Hey now Jason White would've been, at the very least, decent in the NFL if he had any cartilage in his knees by the time he made the jump, hence him going undrafted.

Crouch was never going to make it as an NFL QB as Nebraska was still running the option at that point. Didn't he try to make a switch to WR?

Sorry gotta stick up for the Big 12.

The Gipper

@taco918 said:

Hey now Jason White would've been, at the very least, decent in the NFL if he had any cartilage in his knees by the time he made the jump, hence him going undrafted.

Crouch was never going to make it as an NFL QB as Nebraska was still running the option at that point. Didn't he try to make a switch to WR?

Sorry gotta stick up for the Big 12.

Name some decent Pro QBs that the Big 12 has produced.

And, Uhh, no, sorry, Brandon Weeden and Colt McCoy don't fit.

miktoxic

can't blame a guy for sticking up for his fave team/conference.

thank goodness ohio state has a tv contract or wouldn't see them at all. all i get here is big east (ha!), acc (double HA!) and plenty of sec.

all the standout QBs i've seen of late are out west except for winston but i think that dude is so flaky.....looks like a nibbler.

Taco918

@the-gipper said:

Name some decent Pro QBs that the Big 12 has produced.

And, Uhh, no, sorry, Brandon Weeden and Colt McCoy don't fit.

Gipper we've had this conversation before. The Big 12 was a traditionally option conference until just before the turn of the century. Crouch won the Heisman running the option. All of our current QB talent is just now, or has recently entered the league.

slowburn

@miktoxic said:

thank goodness ohio state has a tv contract or wouldn't see them at all. all i get here is big east (ha!), acc (double HA!) and plenty of sec.

ACC is becoming a decent football watch with the addition of Louisville and others. Notre Dame has signed up to play 5 ACC games per season although they are not eligible for league championship games.

Atlantic Division poll

Florida State – 780 (104 first place votes)
Clemson – 660 (3)
Louisville – 564
Syracuse - 368
North Carolina State – 326
Boston College – 301
Wake Forest – 136

Coastal Division poll

Miami – 614 (26)
Duke – 597 (33)
Virginia Tech – 571 (23)
North Carolina – 570 (27)
Georgia Tech – 322 (1)
Pittsburgh - 319 (2)
Virginia – 142

miktoxic

wow. i forgot how many teams have switched confs. for the exception of a couple of teams it used to be terrible to watch.

IMO.

Flyin J

@taco918 said:

Hey now Jason White would've been, at the very least, decent in the NFL if he had any cartilage in his knees by the time he made the jump, hence him going undrafted.

Crouch was never going to make it as an NFL QB as Nebraska was still running the option at that point. Didn't he try to make a switch to WR?

Sorry gotta stick up for the Big 12.

Crouch switched to safety, and he made it for a couple years before going to Canada.

The Gipper

@taco918 said:
Gipper we've had this conversation before. The Big 12 was a traditionally option conference until just before the turn of the century. Crouch won the Heisman running the option. All of our current QB talent is just now, or has recently entered the league.

I know that, I am just asking for some Big 12 QBs that have been successful in the NFL.

RGIII looked good to start, what about to finish?

Do you consider JFF a Big 12 guy? Or SEC.

Tannehill is still unproven.

The QB from the Big 12 that is active that has the most career TDs is Josh Freeman...and he has failed at a couple of places.

The active Big 12 QB with the most career TD passes is Andy Dalton

Neither of these guys are going to be on anyone's list of la creme de la creme. Fair to say?

But maybe some hope with RGIII, Tannehill, Bradford.