Gordon may sue
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The people who don't believe that it was second hand smoke are the worst kind of delusional.
Sorry friend you are just plain wrong. I spent 10 years of my career in a VA Domiciliary where we tested often. I probably heard that second hand smoke story 7-8 times a year (yep that means about 70-80 times total) and when it all came out in the wash, every single one of them turned out to by lying about it. Plus who cares how he got it? Don't want a positive then don't be around it at all. Oh, and just wait till the DUI gets adjudicated. Yeah, he's just an innocent guy with a track record that matches the lies.
I spent 10 years of my career in a VA Domiciliary where we tested often.
And what was your trigger level?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I spent 10 years of my career in a VA Domiciliary where we tested often.
And what was your trigger level?
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
I'm glad josh is suing. Based on the info Thaak posted here a while back: Ohio state law requires both samples to be positive to be viewed as a failed drug test. Being that the precedent has already been set for nfl players being held to the laws of their state of employment (in this case Ohio) I believe josh has a pretty good chance of winning if his legal team is worth a damn.
Furthermore why is everyone talking about Gordon having a problem as if he's addicted to heroin or is the ring leader of a child pornography syndicate? His problem is he hung out with friends who smoke pot. So he was a witness to a victimless crime, who gives a fuck. I see people breaking the law all the time, guess I should lose my job for a year.
The people who don't believe that it was second hand smoke are the worst kind of delusional. Josh Gordon, according to state law, passed a drug test with a threshold over three times lower than the U.S. Military, and is supposed to be viewed as some great offender. He could've tripled the THC in his system and still been eligible to sacrifice his life on foreign soil for the bank ledger of the military industrial complex.
of all the posts ive read..this seems the most level headed thus far...nicely done.
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The people who don't believe that it was second hand smoke are the worst kind of delusional.
Sorry friend you are just plain wrong. I spent 10 years of my career in a VA Domiciliary where we tested often. I probably heard that second hand smoke story 7-8 times a year (yep that means about 70-80 times total) and when it all came out in the wash, every single one of them turned out to by lying about it. Plus who cares how he got it? Don't want a positive then don't be around it at all. Oh, and just wait till the DUI gets adjudicated. Yeah, he's just an innocent guy with a track record that matches the lies.
Sorry friend you are just plain wrong. I spent 10 years of my career in a VA Domiciliary where we tested often. I probably heard that second hand smoke story 7-8 times a year (yep that means about 70-80 times total) and when it all came out in the wash, every single one of them turned out to by lying about it. Plus who cares how he got it? Don't want a positive then don't be around it at all. Oh, and just wait till the DUI gets adjudicated. Yeah, he's just an innocent guy with a track record that matches the lies.
Yes, and when was that? How refined was the testing procedure back then? What concentration registered a failed test? And because some guys you dealt with at that time, failed and tried to get out of it by lying, then all those who question the accuracy of a drug test for the rest of human existence, are the very same "liars" you met once upon a time.
Aldon's "9" does not include the 5 he missed while in rehab last year... so I'm not irritated by the length of his 2014 suspension.
What irritates me is that he got to have a face to face with Goodell and gets to stay involved with the team throughout his suspension.
The latter is something any player "with a problem" would benefit from. The former either should be part of the process all the time or none of the time...
But to me the biggest injustice is an arbitrator with long and close ties to the league. Such a person simply does not meet the definition of the word:
ar·bi·tra·tor
/ˈärbiˌtrātər/
noun: arbitrator; plural noun: arbitrators
an independent person or body officially appointed to settle a dispute.
And this I agree 100% with. I won't argue against the rules for Josh Gordon. He knew the rules. He knew the next one was 16 games when he made the deal last year. I'm 99.9% sure he has not smoked since. Just not possible to pass that many consecutive tests, over that period of time.
But if the NFL really gives a damn about the teams in its league, their players, and their fans, who allow this league to exist, it should be a priority to do the right thing by the players in all of these disciplinary decisions. I don't have a problem with how the league handled Aldon Smith. I do have a huge problem with the fact that the same support will not be provided for Josh Gordon, or any other player who may find himself in a similar situation.
I really didn't want to rehash all the same BS that has been going back and forth here from the beginning of this Josh Gordon story. I don't come around here often anymore. But I have to say, I'm surprised by the number of people that would give up on Gordon and want to cut him.
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The people who don't believe that it was second hand smoke are the worst kind of delusional.
Sorry friend you are just plain wrong. I spent 10 years of my career in a VA Domiciliary where we tested often. I probably heard that second hand smoke story 7-8 times a year (yep that means about 70-80 times total) and when it all came out in the wash, every single one of them turned out to by lying about it. Plus who cares how he got it? Don't want a positive then don't be around it at all. Oh, and just wait till the DUI gets adjudicated. Yeah, he's just an innocent guy with a track record that matches the lies.
Sorry friend you are just plain wrong. I spent 10 years of my career in a VA Domiciliary where we tested often. I probably heard that second hand smoke story 7-8 times a year (yep that means about 70-80 times total) and when it all came out in the wash, every single one of them turned out to by lying about it. Plus who cares how he got it? Don't want a positive then don't be around it at all. Oh, and just wait till the DUI gets adjudicated. Yeah, he's just an innocent guy with a track record that matches the lies.
Of course being around it is still on Gordon, but with levels that low and being that he passed seventy tests prior, I refuse to believe he was actively inhaling first hand smoke. Let's not forget that according to state law he passed the (very stringent) test.
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What does that have to do with it comedian?
Comedian??? Dead serious...
Ag'69's citing that multiple folks in his experience lied when they used the 2nd hand smoke argument is germane, if the threshold was many times higher than the NFL threshold, as I suspect it was. But as has been pointed out previously, the NFL's trigger level is consistent with second-hand exposure.
It's basically what Spectrum asked in much greater detail in his first paragragh below.
Yes, and when was that? How refined was the testing procedure back then? What concentration registered a failed test? And because some guys you dealt with at that time, failed and tried to get out of it by lying, then all those who question the accuracy of a drug test for the rest of human existence, are the very same "liars" you met once upon a time.
I won't argue against the rules for Josh Gordon. He knew the rules.
On the rules I agree... but my point is that knowing "the rules" is not the same as knowing that "if I spend 29 minutes in a closed car with the ventilation on recirculate in the presense of smoke, then I will test positive two-days from now."
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The people who don't believe that it was second hand smoke are the worst kind of delusional.
Sorry friend you are just plain wrong. I spent 10 years of my career in a VA Domiciliary where we tested often. I probably heard that second hand smoke story 7-8 times a year (yep that means about 70-80 times total) and when it all came out in the wash, every single one of them turned out to by lying about it. Plus who cares how he got it? Don't want a positive then don't be around it at all. Oh, and just wait till the DUI gets adjudicated. Yeah, he's just an innocent guy with a track record that matches the lies.
Sorry friend you are just plain wrong. I spent 10 years of my career in a VA Domiciliary where we tested often. I probably heard that second hand smoke story 7-8 times a year (yep that means about 70-80 times total) and when it all came out in the wash, every single one of them turned out to by lying about it. Plus who cares how he got it? Don't want a positive then don't be around it at all. Oh, and just wait till the DUI gets adjudicated. Yeah, he's just an innocent guy with a track record that matches the lies.
point of clarification tex, in the cases to which you refer what was the level that constituted a violation? As low as this case? And were any of your cases as close, meaning one pass and one fail by one miniscule number?
Or were your offending levels seriously higher?
WSS
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What does that have to do with it comedian?
Comedian??? Dead serious...
Ag'69's citing that multiple folks in his experience lied when they used the 2nd hand smoke argument is germane, if the threshold was many times higher than the NFL threshold, as I suspect it was. But as has been pointed out previously, the NFL's trigger level is consistent with second-hand exposure.
It's basically what Spectrum asked in much greater detail in his first paragragh below.
Yes, and when was that? How refined was the testing procedure back then? What concentration registered a failed test? And because some guys you dealt with at that time, failed and tried to get out of it by lying, then all those who question the accuracy of a drug test for the rest of human existence, are the very same "liars" you met once upon a time.
I won't argue against the rules for Josh Gordon. He knew the rules.
On the rules I agree... but my point is that knowing "the rules" is not the same as knowing that "if I spend 29 minutes in a closed car with the ventilation on recirculate in the presense of smoke, then I will test positive two-days from now."
On the rules I agree... but my point is that knowing "the rules" is not the same as knowing that "if I spend 29 minutes in a closed car with the ventilation on recirculate in the presense of smoke, then I will test positive two-days from now."
Yea, exactly where I was going with that. The reason people have always believed you can't fail for second hand smoke, is because no one considers such small ppm a failure. No one except the NFL apparently.
And listen, I don't smoke. I wouldn't even vote to decriminalize or legalize it if it were on the ballot. So my opinion on this matter isn't even about "pot should be legal" "what's the big deal?" "booze is just as bad," etc. I don't believe in conspiracy theories like if he played for the Steelers, or Patriots, the penalty would be reduced. I really just feel the NFL arbitrarily throws out punishment by suspension or fine. Roger claims he's made all these changes to the game in order to protect players and make the game safer. If that were a priority to Roger, he'd handle these types of disciplinary situations differently. Suspend the guy 16 games if you feel that's appropriate, but there should be more to it. If for some ridiculous reason he should be banned from all team activities, then mandate that during his 16 game suspension, he spend time in rehab, sober living, with a life coach, listening to goddamned Tony Robbins cassette tapes. Surely Roger can make a player do any or all of the above, if he's already able to make them piss in a cup 5 times a week, as ridiculous as that is.
If the health of the players in the league, the long term sustainability of the league, and competitive health of all of the leagues individual franchises was actually important to Roger, and not just the image he can market for advertising contracts, this would all be handled differently.
Mark Cuban might not be far off.
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On the rules I agree... but my point is that knowing "the rules" is not the same as knowing that "if I spend 29 minutes in a closed car with the ventilation on recirculate in the presense of smoke, then I will test positive two-days from now."
Yea, exactly where I was going with that. The reason people have always believed you can't fail for second hand smoke, is because no one considers such small ppm a failure. No one except the NFL apparently.
And listen, I don't smoke. I wouldn't even vote to decriminalize or legalize it if it were on the ballot. So my opinion on this matter isn't even about "pot should be legal" "what's the big deal?" "booze is just as bad," etc. I don't believe in conspiracy theories like if he played for the Steelers, or Patriots, the penalty would be reduced. I really just feel the NFL arbitrarily throws out punishment by suspension or fine. Roger claims he's made all these changes to the game in order to protect players and make the game safer. If that were a priority to Roger, he'd handle these types of disciplinary situations differently. Suspend the guy 16 games if you feel that's appropriate, but there should be more to it. If for some ridiculous reason he should be banned from all team activities, then mandate that during his 16 game suspension, he spend time in rehab, sober living, with a life coach, listening to goddamned Tony Robbins cassette tapes. Surely Roger can make a player do any or all of the above, if he's already able to make them piss in a cup 5 times a week, as ridiculous as that is.
If the health of the players in the league, the long term sustainability of the league, and competitive health of all of the leagues individual franchises was actually important to Roger, and not just the image he can market for advertising contracts, this would all be handled differently.
Mark Cuban might not be far off.
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VesnaKociper said:
The entire thing is sickening. If he played for the 9 ers or Steelers, we'd all be screaming for a lifetime ban!!
Fixed that for ya
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I can't wait until the Feds and the NFL stop fighting a silly war on a plant! I'm sure a lot of these players use it for pain relief. Given the growing problems with abuse of highly addictive opiates, legal painpills or heroin, why shouldn't they be allowed as an alternative to relieve pain?
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Sorry friend you are just plain wrong. I spent 10 years of my career in a VA Domiciliary where we tested often. I probably heard that second hand smoke story 7-8 times a year (yep that means about 70-80 times total) and when it all came out in the wash, every single one of them turned out to by lying about it. Plus who cares how he got it? Don't want a positive then don't be around it at all. Oh, and just wait till the DUI gets adjudicated. Yeah, he's just an innocent guy with a track record that matches the lies.
point of clarification tex, in the cases to which you refer what was the level that constituted a violation? As low as this case? And were any of your cases as close, meaning one pass and one fail by one miniscule number?
Or were your offending levels seriously higher?
WSS
point of clarification tex, in the cases to which you refer what was the level that constituted a violation? As low as this case? And were any of your cases as close, meaning one pass and one fail by one miniscule number?
Or were your offending levels seriously higher?
WSS
Ones that tried to lie with the second hand thing were low as would be expected when it might have been well over a month since use. The ones who used that week and got caught did not even attempt the second hand story because they knew the levels were going to be very high. And just to clarify how long ago that was, I retired 5 years ago and that was my last assignment before retirement.
Doesn't really matter. Just don't f'n be around it and you wont register at all. He did not have enough sense to either 1. not use or 2. don't be around those who do.
However his long, poor track record gives him no credibility whatsoever. If it quacks like a duck....................
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point of clarification tex, in the cases to which you refer what was the level that constituted a violation? As low as this case? And were any of your cases as close, meaning one pass and one fail by one miniscule number?
Or were your offending levels seriously higher?
WSS
Ones that tried to lie with the second hand thing were low as would be expected when it might have been well over a month since use. The ones who used that week and got caught did not even attempt the second hand story because they knew the levels were going to be very high. And just to clarify how long ago that was, I retired 5 years ago and that was my last assignment before retirement.
Doesn't really matter. Just don't f'n be around it and you wont register at all. He did not have enough sense to either 1. not use or 2. don't be around those who do.
However his long, poor track record gives him no credibility whatsoever. If it quacks like a duck....................
Doesn't really matter. Just don't f'n be around it and you wont register at all. He did not have enough sense to either 1. not use or 2. don't be around those who do.
Does matter... Pretty sure that league policy is don't use, not "don't be around those who do".
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Doesn't really matter. Just don't f'n be around it and you wont register at all. He did not have enough sense to either 1. not use or 2. don't be around those who do.
Does matter... Pretty sure that league policy is don't use, not "don't be around those who do".
Does matter... Pretty sure that league policy is don't use, not "don't be around those who do".
Has is it not been mentioned in the past that NFL never intended discipline for second hand smoke? I saw it mentioned in a few articles in relation to Josh Gordon's case, but I've never seen a statement from the NFL to that effect.
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Would the timeframe play into this verdict? For instance if I smoked a bowl on Wednesday and get tested on Saturday. Are the levels significantly decreased by then? Or would it be higher if I smoked on Wednesday and was tested on Thursday morning? That might possibly be the reason they didn't buy the second hand excuse
WSS
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Would the timeframe play into this verdict? For instance if I smoked a bowl on Wednesday and get tested on Saturday. Are the levels significantly decreased by then? Or would it be higher if I smoked on Wednesday and was tested on Thursday morning? That might possibly be the reason they didn't buy the second hand excuse
WSS
Would the timeframe play into this verdict? For instance if I smoked a bowl on Wednesday and get tested on Saturday. Are the levels significantly decreased by then? Or would it be higher if I smoked on Wednesday and was tested on Thursday morning? That might possibly be the reason they didn't buy the second hand excuse
WSS
As I understand it, if you're tested within a week, your levels are pretty high - >100ppbn. You get to the JG levels after a month of not smoking. Given that he's been tested fairly regularly - fortnightly? - you'd expect it to be picked up sooner and at a higher rate.
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