Close enough again?
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Prior to the season, we were all confident with Whitner, Haden and new stud CB Gilbert, thinking Gipson could stand to be replaced. Now, Gipson seems to be the one outplaying them all.
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There are a lot of reasons for this loss. It's about the details, all of which contributed to the loss. Aside from our run defense sucking:
1) If Hoyer hits Gabriel in stride on that deep pass, he doesn't fall down and he scores the touchdown.
2) If the Browns pick up on the overloaded right side of the line (Raven's left side) on Cundiff's blocked field goal, we score the field goal and the Ravens don't win the game on a field goal. Why didn't the Browns do the same thing on the game-winning field goal?
3) If Pettine realizes that Cundiff sucks at 50+ yards and punts the ball, maybe the defense makes a stop and the Ravens don't get a short field. He probably elected to try the field goal because he didn't in Pittsburgh, and that's a mistake. Gotta know your limitations and play around them.
4) If CBs play off the line on a few key pass plays, the Raven's strategy of creating picks to get open might not work.
"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta -
That "cool trick play" was illegal from its concept. There was no reason on earth to switch to Little League ball, when we were running it so well, and using that to play action pass so well....... No reason at all. Shanny needs to figure out this offense's identity and do it quickly. We have an outstanding 1-2 punch in West & Crowell, and a QB that has yet to throw a pick in 3 games. Doesn't take a genius, does it?
Fuckin' trick plays....SMH
There was no reason on earth to switch to Little League ball, when we were running it so well, and using that to play action pass so well....... No reason at all. Shanny needs to figure out this offense's identity and do it quickly.
Fuckin' trick plays....SMH
Exactly... and the thing is he has figured it out. He just seems incapable of staying with it. Was the same story at WSH.
Clever play calling does not require "clever" plays; it requires mixing up the core plays that have worked cleverly...
VesnaKociper said:
What it is going to take is the same thing the Browns have been lacking for years. PLAYMAKERS.
I was going to say linemen...
That's the SECOND time we've had a potential walk-in TD and the guy trips himself.
Third... but who'd counting...
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There are a lot of reasons for this loss. It's about the details, all of which contributed to the loss. Aside from our run defense sucking:
1) If Hoyer hits Gabriel in stride on that deep pass, he doesn't fall down and he scores the touchdown.
2) If the Browns pick up on the overloaded right side of the line (Raven's left side) on Cundiff's blocked field goal, we score the field goal and the Ravens don't win the game on a field goal. Why didn't the Browns do the same thing on the game-winning field goal?
3) If Pettine realizes that Cundiff sucks at 50+ yards and punts the ball, maybe the defense makes a stop and the Ravens don't get a short field. He probably elected to try the field goal because he didn't in Pittsburgh, and that's a mistake. Gotta know your limitations and play around them.
4) If CBs play off the line on a few key pass plays, the Raven's strategy of creating picks to get open might not work.
There are a lot of reasons for this loss. It's about the details, all of which contributed to the loss. Aside from our run defense sucking:
1) If Hoyer hits Gabriel in stride on that deep pass, he doesn't fall down and he scores the touchdown.
2) If the Browns pick up on the overloaded right side of the line (Raven's left side) on Cundiff's blocked field goal, we score the field goal and the Ravens don't win the game on a field goal. Why didn't the Browns do the same thing on the game-winning field goal?
3) If Pettine realizes that Cundiff sucks at 50+ yards and punts the ball, maybe the defense makes a stop and the Ravens don't get a short field. He probably elected to try the field goal because he didn't in Pittsburgh, and that's a mistake. Gotta know your limitations and play around them.
4) If CBs play off the line on a few key pass plays, the Raven's strategy of creating picks to get open might not work.
Correct comments would have been:
1) Had Gabe not broken stride and slowed down...
2) Had the Browns blocked the outside rusher on a FG attempt for the first time in the history of the game...
3) Had the snap not been low...
4) Had the CBs not read this board for years and complaints of playing too soft...
I had to reach for that last one... but the first three were made easy by reality.
My take on picks is you have to run through them, go down to the ground if need be to draw attention to them. Only way they are going to be called these days. Certainly won't be called if players try to run around them...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
There are a lot of reasons for this loss. It's about the details, all of which contributed to the loss. Aside from our run defense sucking:
1) If Hoyer hits Gabriel in stride on that deep pass, he doesn't fall down and he scores the touchdown.
2) If the Browns pick up on the overloaded right side of the line (Raven's left side) on Cundiff's blocked field goal, we score the field goal and the Ravens don't win the game on a field goal. Why didn't the Browns do the same thing on the game-winning field goal?
3) If Pettine realizes that Cundiff sucks at 50+ yards and punts the ball, maybe the defense makes a stop and the Ravens don't get a short field. He probably elected to try the field goal because he didn't in Pittsburgh, and that's a mistake. Gotta know your limitations and play around them.
4) If CBs play off the line on a few key pass plays, the Raven's strategy of creating picks to get open might not work.
There are a lot of reasons for this loss. It's about the details, all of which contributed to the loss. Aside from our run defense sucking:
1) If Hoyer hits Gabriel in stride on that deep pass, he doesn't fall down and he scores the touchdown.
It wasn't a perfect throw but Gabriel misread it as well. Either way this play IMO was the biggest tide change that contributed to the loss. No matter how you slice it that should have been a walk in TD and would have given the Browns a 28-17 lead with the crowd going crazy late in the 4th. Instead a few stupid plays later and a blocked field goal lead to the downfall.
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There are a lot of reasons for this loss. It's about the details, all of which contributed to the loss. Aside from our run defense sucking:
1) If Hoyer hits Gabriel in stride on that deep pass, he doesn't fall down and he scores the touchdown.
2) If the Browns pick up on the overloaded right side of the line (Raven's left side) on Cundiff's blocked field goal, we score the field goal and the Ravens don't win the game on a field goal. Why didn't the Browns do the same thing on the game-winning field goal?
3) If Pettine realizes that Cundiff sucks at 50+ yards and punts the ball, maybe the defense makes a stop and the Ravens don't get a short field. He probably elected to try the field goal because he didn't in Pittsburgh, and that's a mistake. Gotta know your limitations and play around them.
4) If CBs play off the line on a few key pass plays, the Raven's strategy of creating picks to get open might not work.
Correct comments would have been:
1) Had Gabe not broken stride and slowed down...
2) Had the Browns blocked the outside rusher on a FG attempt for the first time in the history of the game...
3) Had the snap not been low...
4) Had the CBs not read this board for years and complaints of playing too soft...
I had to reach for that last one... but the first three were made easy by reality.
My take on picks is you have to run through them, go down to the ground if need be to draw attention to them. Only way they are going to be called these days. Certainly won't be called if players try to run around them...
Correct comments would have been:
1) Had Gabe not broken stride and slowed down...
2) Had the Browns blocked the outside rusher on a FG attempt for the first time in the history of the game...
3) Had the snap not been low...
4) Had the CBs not read this board for years and complaints of playing too soft...
I had to reach for that last one... but the first three were made easy by reality.
My take on picks is you have to run through them, go down to the ground if need be to draw attention to them. Only way they are going to be called these days. Certainly won't be called if players try to run around them...
I think you're splitting hairs, but I think we agree.
1. Don't have the replay in front of me, but I think either scenario (better route running or better pass) ends up in a TD.
2. The ravens did overload that side of the line, the commentators even said as much. Regardless, yes, they should've blocked it better.
3. I'm not convinced Cundiff hits that 50 yard field goal regardless of the snap.
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Correct comments would have been:
1) Had Gabe not broken stride and slowed down...
2) Had the Browns blocked the outside rusher on a FG attempt for the first time in the history of the game...
3) Had the snap not been low...
4) Had the CBs not read this board for years and complaints of playing too soft...
I had to reach for that last one... but the first three were made easy by reality.
My take on picks is you have to run through them, go down to the ground if need be to draw attention to them. Only way they are going to be called these days. Certainly won't be called if players try to run around them...
I think you're splitting hairs, but I think we agree.
1. Don't have the replay in front of me, but I think either scenario (better route running or better pass) ends up in a TD.
2. The ravens did overload that side of the line, the commentators even said as much. Regardless, yes, they should've blocked it better.
3. I'm not convinced Cundiff hits that 50 yard field goal regardless of the snap.
I think you're splitting hairs, but I think we agree.
1. Don't have the replay in front of me, but I think either scenario (better route running or better pass) ends up in a TD.
2. The ravens did overload that side of the line, the commentators even said as much. Regardless, yes, they should've blocked it better.
3. I'm not convinced Cundiff hits that 50 yard field goal regardless of the snap.
I'm sure we don't agree...
1. The pass was fine.
2. The outside rusher is never blocked.
3. The snap may not be to blame, but it did not help. Based upon distance the contact was solid, but the flight was "funny" suggesting the hold may have been "off".
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I think you're splitting hairs, but I think we agree.
1. Don't have the replay in front of me, but I think either scenario (better route running or better pass) ends up in a TD.
2. The ravens did overload that side of the line, the commentators even said as much. Regardless, yes, they should've blocked it better.
3. I'm not convinced Cundiff hits that 50 yard field goal regardless of the snap.
I'm sure we don't agree...
1. The pass was fine.
2. The outside rusher is never blocked.
3. The snap may not be to blame, but it did not help. Based upon distance the contact was solid, but the flight was "funny" suggesting the hold may have been "off".
I'm sure we don't agree...
1. The pass was fine.
2. The outside rusher is never blocked.
3. The snap may not be to blame, but it did not help. Based upon distance the contact was solid, but the flight was "funny" suggesting the hold may have been "off".
Okay, my bad. I still don't think the pass was fine but I didn't know the outside rush is never blocked. Still think Cundiff sucks.
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I'm sure we don't agree...
1. The pass was fine.
2. The outside rusher is never blocked.
3. The snap may not be to blame, but it did not help. Based upon distance the contact was solid, but the flight was "funny" suggesting the hold may have been "off".
Okay, my bad. I still don't think the pass was fine but I didn't know the outside rush is never blocked. Still think Cundiff sucks.
Okay, my bad. I still don't think the pass was fine but I didn't know the outside rush is never blocked. Still think Cundiff sucks.
Nah... no bad... all good...
I thought the pass was bad as well until I watched a replay of the play of the play... if that makes sense. It's only in the field view replay that you can see when Gabe slows his route.
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You must be completed right.The last pass he threw should have been thrown. The dumbass announcers don't know enough about game management, so I'll fill those in that think we should've run on 3rd and 7 with 2:08 seconds left and fucked up the time management.
The 2 minute warning was going to stop the clock. We stood a better chance of getting the 1st down with a pass and not a run. If the pass is complete, game over.
If the pass is incomplete, then 1 of 2 things were going to happen:
1) Either the play takes all of the time down to 2:00 (unlikely) >>>> lots more likely than a pass<<<<< and the clock stops at play's end, regardless of the play's outcome. (either on the inc or the 2 minute warning, doesn't matter)
2) The play doesn't take all of the time off the clock (what happened) and it stops at say 2:04...... Big fucking deal! Since the clock stops after a change of possession any way (after the punt) and the 2 minute warning came while the punt was in the air.............The clock was going to stop anyway.
The last pass attempt on 3rd and 7 before the 2 minute warning was the ONLY CORRECT PLAY CALL for that situation.
If you don't understand it, I don't know what else to tell you.
It worked like a charm.
WSS
You must be completed right.
It worked like a charm.
WSS
I am right. Do the "time" math. If we had run the ball on 3rd and 7 with 2:08 left 1 of 2 things would have happened:
1) We get the first down, the clock stops at 2:00, game is over. (Same as the pass play.... Which play do you think has a better chance of gaining 7yds - run or pass?)
2) They stop us short. We don't get the 1st down and the clock stops at 2:00. We then punt, which usually takes 8 seconds (5 for snap and kick hang time, and 3 for the tackle) and the clock stops on change of possession. That means the Ravens would have gotten the ball at the 50ish with 1:52 seconds left, instead of the 1:56 that they had after the incomplete pass.
If you think those 4 seconds were the reason we lost the game, then you need to learn a little more about game day and clock management. Now if you think a run had a better chance of gaining 7 yds when compared to a pass, well that's your opinion and that I can live with, even if you're still wrong.
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You must be completed right.
It worked like a charm.
WSS
I am right. Do the "time" math. If we had run the ball on 3rd and 7 with 2:08 left 1 of 2 things would have happened:
1) We get the first down, the clock stops at 2:00, game is over. (Same as the pass play.... Which play do you think has a better chance of gaining 7yds - run or pass?)
2) They stop us short. We don't get the 1st down and the clock stops at 2:00. We then punt, which usually takes 8 seconds (5 for snap and kick hang time, and 3 for the tackle) and the clock stops on change of possession. That means the Ravens would have gotten the ball at the 50ish with 1:52 seconds left, instead of the 1:56 that they had after the incomplete pass.
If you think those 4 seconds were the reason we lost the game, then you need to learn a little more about game day and clock management. Now if you think a run had a better chance of gaining 7 yds when compared to a pass, well that's your opinion and that I can live with, even if you're still wrong.
I am right. Do the "time" math. If we had run the ball on 3rd and 7 with 2:08 left 1 of 2 things would have happened:
1) We get the first down, the clock stops at 2:00, game is over. (Same as the pass play.... Which play do you think has a better chance of gaining 7yds - run or pass?)
2) They stop us short. We don't get the 1st down and the clock stops at 2:00. We then punt, which usually takes 8 seconds (5 for snap and kick hang time, and 3 for the tackle) and the clock stops on change of possession. That means the Ravens would have gotten the ball at the 50ish with 1:52 seconds left, instead of the 1:56 that they had after the incomplete pass.
If you think those 4 seconds were the reason we lost the game, then you need to learn a little more about game day and clock management. Now if you think a run had a better chance of gaining 7 yds when compared to a pass, well that's your opinion and that I can live with, even if you're still wrong.
Yeah maybe a running play would not have a better chance of getting more than 0 yards.
So that's your opinion?
WSS
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I am right. Do the "time" math. If we had run the ball on 3rd and 7 with 2:08 left 1 of 2 things would have happened:
1) We get the first down, the clock stops at 2:00, game is over. (Same as the pass play.... Which play do you think has a better chance of gaining 7yds - run or pass?)
2) They stop us short. We don't get the 1st down and the clock stops at 2:00. We then punt, which usually takes 8 seconds (5 for snap and kick hang time, and 3 for the tackle) and the clock stops on change of possession. That means the Ravens would have gotten the ball at the 50ish with 1:52 seconds left, instead of the 1:56 that they had after the incomplete pass.
If you think those 4 seconds were the reason we lost the game, then you need to learn a little more about game day and clock management. Now if you think a run had a better chance of gaining 7 yds when compared to a pass, well that's your opinion and that I can live with, even if you're still wrong.
Yeah maybe a running play would not have a better chance of getting more than 0 yards.
So that's your opinion?
WSS
Yeah maybe a running play would not have a better chance of getting more than 0 yards.
So that's your opinion?
WSS
I'm trying to teach you something. Maybe you try and learn? Yes, it's my opinion that a run play on 3rd and 7, with the time left and 2 minute warning upcoming, would not likely gain enough yardage for the 1st down. A pass in that situation stood the best chance of gaining 7 yds and sealing the victory, and obviously an NFL coach agrees with me.
That being said, you're right about one thing, in the end it didn't work. Would a draw play have worked? We'll never know. But saying the pass play was wrong because of "time" is just a lack of football knowledge.
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Yeah maybe a running play would not have a better chance of getting more than 0 yards.
So that's your opinion?
WSS
I'm trying to teach you something. Maybe you try and learn? Yes, it's my opinion that a run play on 3rd and 7, with the time left and 2 minute warning upcoming, would not likely gain enough yardage for the 1st down. A pass in that situation stood the best chance of gaining 7 yds and sealing the victory, and obviously an NFL coach agrees with me.
That being said, you're right about one thing, in the end it didn't work. Would a draw play have worked? We'll never know. But saying the pass play was wrong because of "time" is just a lack of football knowledge.
I'm trying to teach you something. Maybe you try and learn? Yes, it's my opinion that a run play on 3rd and 7, with the time left and 2 minute warning upcoming, would not likely gain enough yardage for the 1st down. A pass in that situation stood the best chance of gaining 7 yds and sealing the victory, and obviously an NFL coach agrees with me.
That being said, you're right about one thing, in the end it didn't work. Would a draw play have worked? We'll never know. But saying the pass play was wrong because of "time" is just a lack of football knowledge.
Look the defense and special teams lost the fucking game. But letting Brian Hoyer throw the ball exactly where the Ravens defense expected it to be thrown like the Steelers a couple weeks ago did not work.
WSS
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also you are probably right about the clock not making that much difference as far as running or passing.
still I would have gone with the run since it was working and especially a draw play for the last one.
you may doubt it would have been better but maybe and could not have been worse
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
I think you're splitting hairs, but I think we agree.
1. Don't have the replay in front of me, but I think either scenario (better route running or better pass) ends up in a TD.
2. The ravens did overload that side of the line, the commentators even said as much. Regardless, yes, they should've blocked it better.
3. I'm not convinced Cundiff hits that 50 yard field goal regardless of the snap.
I'm sure we don't agree...
1. The pass was fine.
2. The outside rusher is never blocked.
3. The snap may not be to blame, but it did not help. Based upon distance the contact was solid, but the flight was "funny" suggesting the hold may have been "off".
I'm sure we don't agree...
1. The pass was fine.
2. The outside rusher is never blocked.
3. The snap may not be to blame, but it did not help. Based upon distance the contact was solid, but the flight was "funny" suggesting the hold may have been "off".
1. I agree, Gabriel slowed up a tad and had to adjust, and causing himself to trip. I see that one.
2. Serious question here: if the outside rusher is never blocked, what exactly went "wrong" then?
3. It was a really windy day, yet I didn't notice it much from where my seat is in the stadium. I saw the goal posts flags moving but they weren't going crazy. A few times the posts were waving around on the dawg pound end, which is where Cundiff missed the 50 yarder. Any opinions on that? I heard that Cundiff is saying the stadium improvements have affected conditions for kicking.
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also you are probably right about the clock not making that much difference as far as running or passing.
still I would have gone with the run since it was working and especially a draw play for the last one.
you may doubt it would have been better but maybe and could not have been worse
WSS
also you are probably right about the clock not making that much difference as far as running or passing.
still I would have gone with the run since it was working and especially a draw play for the last one.
you may doubt it would have been better but maybe and could not have been worse
WSS
Like I said, if the argument is you think a run would've been the better option in terms of purely picking up the 7yds, then I'm OK with that. I myself liked the play call, just hated the bad/tipped (not sure?) pass and then the "non-catch" of a tough, but catchable pass. If the catch is made for the 1st down, for the next 2 weeks, we're all pounding our chests and saying "we finally have a coach with balls" lol.
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I'm sure we don't agree...
1. The pass was fine.
2. The outside rusher is never blocked.
3. The snap may not be to blame, but it did not help. Based upon distance the contact was solid, but the flight was "funny" suggesting the hold may have been "off".
1. I agree, Gabriel slowed up a tad and had to adjust, and causing himself to trip. I see that one.
2. Serious question here: if the outside rusher is never blocked, what exactly went "wrong" then?
3. It was a really windy day, yet I didn't notice it much from where my seat is in the stadium. I saw the goal posts flags moving but they weren't going crazy. A few times the posts were waving around on the dawg pound end, which is where Cundiff missed the 50 yarder. Any opinions on that? I heard that Cundiff is saying the stadium improvements have affected conditions for kicking.
2. Serious question here: if the outside rusher is never blocked, what exactly went "wrong" then?
I have nothing better to offer than Jackson made his rush of a lifetime... It's not like he's a 4.3 guy or anything (4.5+ I think), and his 10-yard split did not strike me as remarkable either.
I broke it down in a post somewhere, but he moved on the snap a full four frames (IIRC) of DVR slo-mo before any other player twitched aside from our snapper.
Jackson rushed low and hard (a start Usan Bolt would be proud of) and tight. He beat our best time of the day from snap-start to kick-away.
He may never block another.
I don't think I mentioned before that he barely got one hand on the ball. No solice whatsoever since it was more than enough to kill the try, but the ball still traveled forward 20 yards or so from the spot.
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