Ravens looking moderately good
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Right, because it is so easy to win in Baltimore.
Even with Gordon back, unless you find a way to slow that pass rush Hoyer is gonna be on his back or throwing ducks. And good luck against Forsett
Hold you smack spittle, Skippy, just worry about the Chargers, everyone in the division beat the Saints, don't wet yourself.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Hold you smack spittle, Skippy, just worry about the Chargers, everyone in the division beat the Saints, don't wet yourself.
Zombo
True. I didn't say anything along the lines of thinking we're unbeatable, just not easy to beat at home, and seeing as we won in Cleveland earlier in the year i feel pretty confident about playing in Baltimore with playoff stakes on the line. Should be a good game. If we lose I'll be here congratulating you guys and eating crow. (Does that make me a cannibal if I eat crow?) But there's a difference of "We have a good chance against Baltimore" and "We're gonna smash them back down to the bottom" like some in other threads have posted. I just count it as foolish to count on someone winning in Baltimore with playoff stakes on the line....Baltimore has a pretty good history of performing at home in those situations.
Browns match up well against bal, that game in CLE was quite frustrating. Browns easily had that gaMe in hand. We will see, Ravens arent exactly world beaters but are playing well enough atm
They do in terms of receiving core vs our secondary but then again everyone matches up well against us in that regard. Our front seven matches up well against your offensive line. our offense is inconsistent, but at home they usually perform well plus Forsett is heating up and Torrey is finally playing like he did last year. The game will come down to how Hoyer handles the pressure.
@columbusking said:
PurplePantyWaste, Your brain is a waste. The Bengals had no trouble beating you @Home. Stopping the pass rush? The ravens sacked Hoyer 0 times in the first match up lol. Stopping Forsett? He had a 8 yards per rush last night against the Browns it was only 5.
That was week 3 when we had no pass rush. We're a completely different team from week 3, our front seven has dominated every single game. Our secondary is atrocious though outside Will Hill and Webb.
Forsett has evolved and grown more comfortable in the rushing scheme, and our receivers have been trending in the right direction. Not having Pitta really was a blow to our offense but we've seen to found ourselves and Flacco is hitting a groove.
Two things I will boldly guarantee: Hoyer will be sacked, and he will be hit often. That'll be the deciding factor of the game, can Hoyer play well through the pressure and tack advantage of our second chance secondary.
I didn't take it as a slight at all. I was genuinely curious as to whether you thought Smith was a bigger loss than Mack. For us, we basically lost our 'elite' OL status, with scrubs playing center, meaning we struggled in pass-protection, and suffered horribly in rushing, which was intended to be the mainstay of this team. Don't forget, we went from something like 3rd in the league in rush yards per game, over 5 games, to averaging about 50 YPG after the injury.
I'd say Mack's absence has been felt more keenly than Gordon, thanks in part to the play of Hawkins, but also thanks to the position he plays.
We went from debatable one of the top 3 defenses in the league to middle of the pack. Now we basically rely on our front seven to generate enough pressure to keep even mediocre qbs from picking apart the secondary. Will Hill was a god send, as without him we'd be 7-5 right now or worse.
Pitta is also a loss that is hard to quantify. It took a while for us to figure out 3rd downs as he was the guy who we either went to or that defenses keyed in on. He was the only guy Joe could really depend on to throw the ball up to.
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@columbusking said:
Infact over the season the Browns have amassed more sacks then the ravens so maybe YOU should worry about Blow Flacco being on his back....
Really? Because according to the NFL, Browns are at 23 and Ravens on 29.
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@columbusking said:
Infact over the season the Browns have amassed more sacks then the ravens so maybe YOU should worry about Blow Flacco being on his back....
Eyeball test tells me Ravens pass rush is far superior, I'd bet a lot of Browns sacks were coverage sacks.
Joe Flacco has lost 1 game to you guys his whole career, during a year where we had possibly the worst Ravens team ever fielded since before 2000, so save the name calling for after week 17 if you manage to win.
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@columbusking said:
Infact over the season the Browns have amassed more sacks then the ravens so maybe YOU should worry about Blow Flacco being on his back....
Really? Because according to the NFL, Browns are at 23 and Ravens on 29.
Really? Because according to the NFL, Browns are at 23 and Ravens on 29.
Idk, stats are nice but without watching every single game to examine how they got that way aren't reliable ways of constructing arguments IMO, at least not stats in and of themselves.
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Idk, stats are nice but without watching every single game to examine how they got that way aren't reliable ways of constructing arguments IMO, at least not stats in and of themselves.
Just fact-checking a fellow browns fan who claimed the opposite to be true is all.
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Idk, stats are nice but without watching every single game to examine how they got that way aren't reliable ways of constructing arguments IMO, at least not stats in and of themselves.
Just fact-checking a fellow browns fan who claimed the opposite to be true is all.
Just fact-checking a fellow browns fan who claimed the opposite to be true is all.
I know.
It is a night and day difference though how our front seven played against you guys week 3 where they made Hoyer look All-Pro from now where they make quarterbacks wet themselves in the pocket.
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It's also night-and-day how different our secondary has looked since about week 6. See this article from PFF - cumulative -12.3 first four games, +30 since (after the Bengals game).
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I know.
It is a night and day difference though how our front seven played against you guys week 3 where they made Hoyer look All-Pro from now where they make quarterbacks wet themselves in the pocket.
We're going to come to play week 17, you can book it. Our secondary is playing lights out, running game coming back, and our receiving corps have big play ability.
It'll be a good game, but for now we need to beat buffalo.
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Right, because it is so easy to win in Baltimore.
Even with Gordon back, unless you find a way to slow that pass rush Hoyer is gonna be on his back or throwing ducks. And good luck against Forsett
Hold you smack spittle, Skippy, just worry about the Chargers, everyone in the division beat the Saints, don't wet yourself.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Hold you smack spittle, Skippy, just worry about the Chargers, everyone in the division beat the Saints, don't wet yourself.
Zombo
Everyone except, hopefully, the Steelers....who they play next week.
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@columbusking said:
Infact over the season the Browns have amassed more sacks then the ravens so maybe YOU should worry about Blow Flacco being on his back....
Eyeball test tells me Ravens pass rush is far superior, I'd bet a lot of Browns sacks were coverage sacks.
Joe Flacco has lost 1 game to you guys his whole career, during a year where we had possibly the worst Ravens team ever fielded since before 2000, so save the name calling for after week 17 if you manage to win.
Eyeball test tells me Ravens pass rush is far superior, I'd bet a lot of Browns sacks were coverage sacks.
Well, considering the Browns are down by like 3 DL (Taylor, Armonty Bryant, Hughes) the Ravens pass rush should be superior. It probably was even before the injuries, what with Suggs and Dumerville....who are long time veteran quality pass rushers. the injury factor even increases that edge.
Joe Flacco has lost 1 game to you guys his whole career, during a year where we had possibly the worst Ravens team ever fielded since before 2000, so save the name calling for after week 17 if you manage to win.
Ben Roethlisberger only lost once to the Browns in his career. What happened last time the Browns played him? And he is better than Flacco.
History is history. Enoy it. Talk about it....but don't expect it to repeat over and over.
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I know.
It is a night and day difference though how our front seven played against you guys week 3 where they made Hoyer look All-Pro from now where they make quarterbacks wet themselves in the pocket.
Why is there any difference? Did they acquire new better players? Did they take double strength HGH? There is nothing different. They may play differently in that game, but nothing is different.
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I know.
It is a night and day difference though how our front seven played against you guys week 3 where they made Hoyer look All-Pro from now where they make quarterbacks wet themselves in the pocket.
We're going to come to play week 17, you can book it. Our secondary is playing lights out, running game coming back, and our receiving corps have big play ability.
It'll be a good game, but for now we need to beat buffalo.
We're going to come to play week 17, you can book it. Our secondary is playing lights out, running game coming back, and our receiving corps have big play ability.
It'll be a good game, but for now we need to beat buffalo.
All true statements but end of the day it's all about the quarterback and although Hoyer is a good quarterback I doubt in his ability to handle and combat the blitz that the Ravens will be sending him all day. He'll need to play better than he has in the past 6 weeks.
Eyeball test tells me Ravens pass rush is far superior, I'd bet a lot of Browns sacks were coverage sacks.
Well, considering the Browns are down by like 3 DL (Taylor, Armonty Bryant, Hughes) the Ravens pass rush should be superior. It probably was even before the injuries, what with Suggs and Dumerville....who are long time veteran quality pass rushers. the injury factor even increases that edge.
We're also down 2 DL ourselves, though they weren't regular starters they were important rotational players. But Suggs and Doom are of course this biggest contributors.
Joe Flacco has lost 1 game to you guys his whole career, during a year where we had possibly the worst Ravens team ever fielded since before 2000, so save the name calling for after week 17 if you manage to win.
Ben Roethlisberger only lost once to the Browns in his career. What happened last time the Browns played him? And he is better than Flacco.
History is history. Enoy it. Talk about it....but don't expect it to repeat over and over.
I don't expect it to repeat over and over. But, forgive me if I like our odds. If you guys had a better quarterback I'd be far more concerned because an argument can be made the Browns are as good or a better of a team than the Ravens overall, but at the most important position in playoff atmosphere games I'm trusting in a proven commodity, where as the Browns are riding the up and down play of a NFL Journeyman.
Why is there any difference? Did they acquire new better players? Did they take double strength HGH? There is nothing different. They may play differently in that game, but nothing is different.
That's what I said isn't it? "It is a night and day difference in how they PLAYED". No there is nothing different except that your offensive line has injuries and our pass rush has gotten better almost on a weekly basis.
And you should know the Ravens are all about that Deer Antler Spray Gip. See 2012 Playoffs Ray Lewis Returns from IR
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It might interest you to know, per this article (although it's a bit unclear), it looks like Hoyer has not thrown a pick against the blitz this year:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/151138/inside-slant-nfl-week-12-qb-report
Read in to that what you like - he's forcing the ball, he's not identifying when the linebackers are dropping and calling a run play accordingly, he's very good at picking up blitzes and getting rid of the ball quickly?
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It might interest you to know, per this article (although it's a bit unclear), it looks like Hoyer has not thrown a pick against the blitz this year:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/151138/inside-slant-nfl-week-12-qb-report
Read in to that what you like - he's forcing the ball, he's not identifying when the linebackers are dropping and calling a run play accordingly, he's very good at picking up blitzes and getting rid of the ball quickly?
It might interest you to know, per this article (although it's a bit unclear), it looks like Hoyer has not thrown a pick against the blitz this year:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/151138/inside-slant-nfl-week-12-qb-report
Read in to that what you like - he's forcing the ball, he's not identifying when the linebackers are dropping and calling a run play accordingly, he's very good at picking up blitzes and getting rid of the ball quickly?
No, he doesn't turn the ball over often at all period. But when he's blitzed his throws are erratic and off target, and especially if he's try to throw something down or across the middle it can lead to trouble, he's been lucky on some throws I've seen this year.
Not turning the ball over, if that's even true, against the Blitz is a plus but at the same time it doesn't negate the fact that he's usually pretty ineffective at combating it. It's not the decision making as much as the accuracy.
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You know we're going to go 11-5 and miss the playoffs
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don't expect it to repeat over and over. But, forgive me if I like our odds. If you guys had a better quarterback I'd be far more concerned because an argument can be made the Browns are as good or a better of a team than the Ravens overall, but at the most important position in playoff atmosphere games I'm trusting in a proven commodity, where as the Browns are riding the up and down play of a NFL Journeyman.
Well, so far this year they have the exact same record....and I don't think his play has been any more up and down that what you have had.
And Hoyer has been a backup for Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger, established Super Bowl winning veteran QBs who....OK, he did not beat out for the starting job for those teams. If Flacco were in his same position, he too would be a backup to those two guys.
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YIKES !!, The Ravens really put it to the Saints last night. Now were the Ravens playing great football, or was the Saints just horrorible? I think both. The Ravens moved the ball on the ground and in the air. Steve Smith is definely going to be a handful to deal with for our match up in the final week. But that is still a few weeks away. Alot can happen to a team by then. This team can go on a super win streak, and catch the Ravens in the finale showdown for the division. Iam hoping for the best of course. But making it to the playoffs is just as important.
YIKES !!, The Ravens really put it to the Saints last night. Now were the Ravens playing great football, or was the Saints just horrorible? I think both. The Ravens moved the ball on the ground and in the air. Steve Smith is definely going to be a handful to deal with for our match up in the final week. But that is still a few weeks away. Alot can happen to a team by then. This team can go on a super win streak, and catch the Ravens in the finale showdown for the division. Iam hoping for the best of course. But making it to the playoffs is just as important.
I hope we can make the playoffs. I doubt we will go far, but I still hope to make it.
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don't expect it to repeat over and over. But, forgive me if I like our odds. If you guys had a better quarterback I'd be far more concerned because an argument can be made the Browns are as good or a better of a team than the Ravens overall, but at the most important position in playoff atmosphere games I'm trusting in a proven commodity, where as the Browns are riding the up and down play of a NFL Journeyman.
Well, so far this year they have the exact same record....and I don't think his play has been any more up and down that what you have had.
And Hoyer has been a backup for Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger, established Super Bowl winning veteran QBs who....OK, he did not beat out for the starting job for those teams. If Flacco were in his same position, he too would be a backup to those two guys.
don't expect it to repeat over and over. But, forgive me if I like our odds. If you guys had a better quarterback I'd be far more concerned because an argument can be made the Browns are as good or a better of a team than the Ravens overall, but at the most important position in playoff atmosphere games I'm trusting in a proven commodity, where as the Browns are riding the up and down play of a NFL Journeyman.
Well, so far this year they have the exact same record....and I don't think his play has been any more up and down that what you have had.
And Hoyer has been a backup for Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger, established Super Bowl winning veteran QBs who....OK, he did not beat out for the starting job for those teams. If Flacco were in his same position, he too would be a backup to those two guys.
Gip, that's a terrible argument because 95% of qbs would not beat out either of those for starting position, but doesn't mean anything in terms of evaluating and comparing Joe and Brian.
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don't expect it to repeat over and over. But, forgive me if I like our odds. If you guys had a better quarterback I'd be far more concerned because an argument can be made the Browns are as good or a better of a team than the Ravens overall, but at the most important position in playoff atmosphere games I'm trusting in a proven commodity, where as the Browns are riding the up and down play of a NFL Journeyman.
Well, so far this year they have the exact same record....and I don't think his play has been any more up and down that what you have had.
And Hoyer has been a backup for Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger, established Super Bowl winning veteran QBs who....OK, he did not beat out for the starting job for those teams. If Flacco were in his same position, he too would be a backup to those two guys.
Gip, that's a terrible argument because 95% of qbs would not beat out either of those for starting position, but doesn't mean anything in terms of evaluating and comparing Joe and Brian.
Gip, that's a terrible argument because 95% of qbs would not beat out either of those for starting position, but doesn't mean anything in terms of evaluating and comparing Joe and Brian.
No, its a very good argument....because you said he was a journeyman QB. He was a journeyman in the sense that he has been under contract with several teams. But he was a backup to 2 Hall of Fame caliber QBs. He could possibly be among the best 10-15% of QBS playing the game today, and he still would not have beat them out.
And that comparison is valid to Flacco as well. If Flacco had been on those same teams, he too would not beat out Brady and Roethlisberger. Do you want to argue that? So to that extent, the comparison is apt.
And here is another comparison....which may or may not be apt. But it is what it is:
Flacco win pct.: .635 (in 107 games)
Hoyer win pct.: .714 (in 14 games)
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Gip, that's a terrible argument because 95% of qbs would not beat out either of those for starting position, but doesn't mean anything in terms of evaluating and comparing Joe and Brian.
No, its a very good argument....because you said he was a journeyman QB. He was a journeyman in the sense that he has been under contract with several teams. But he was a backup to 2 Hall of Fame caliber QBs. He could possibly be among the best 10-15% of QBS playing the game today, and he still would not have beat them out.
And that comparison is valid to Flacco as well. If Flacco had been on those same teams, he too would not beat out Brady and Roethlisberger. Do you want to argue that? So to that extent, the comparison is apt.
And here is another comparison....which may or may not be apt. But it is what it is:
Flacco win pct.: .635 (in 107 games)
Hoyer win pct.: .714 (in 14 games)
No, its a very good argument....because you said he was a journeyman QB. He was a journeyman in the sense that he has been under contract with several teams. But he was a backup to 2 Hall of Fame caliber QBs. He could possibly be among the best 10-15% of QBS playing the game today, and he still would not have beat them out.
And that comparison is valid to Flacco as well. If Flacco had been on those same teams, he too would not beat out Brady and Roethlisberger. Do you want to argue that? So to that extent, the comparison is apt.
And here is another comparison....which may or may not be apt. But it is what it is:
Flacco win pct.: .635 (in 107 games)
Hoyer win pct.: .714 (in 14 games)
You imply that labeling him as a journeyman qb is the only argument I've presented for why Flacco is better than Hoyer...which is false.
Flacco is much more accurate than Hoyer. Especially on deep passes. Now Flacco isn't as good on the deep ball as many claim him to be, but he's easily top 10 in deep throw accuracy. He excels on sideline passes, he throws a 10 yard and 15 yard deep comeback route as good as anyone (except Peyton who is downright lethal with them). He's also underrated at throwing the back shoulder fade, and his accuracy down the middle of the field while not elite is certainly above or at par.
Hoyer is good at short outside routes, average on crossing patterns and mediocre to putrid half the time going down the middle or deep down the field. His mechanics are very sloppy.
So the only thing they have in common this year and forever is their record
Hoyer would be a backup on 90% of all teams, Flacco is only a backup for HOF qbs, which is far from a knock
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