2015 - FA / Draft / Notes

tiamat63

Mortgaging the farm for one player with holes in his game and some off field noise is a fools errand.

Only player I would have been willing to do that for in the last 5 years is Luck. I don't see Winston currently having anywhere near that ability and he's been playing with more talent surrounding him than Andrew had at Stanford.

Tour2ma

I dunno, t... Not saying I could spend three #1's on him, even with no personal issues, but Jameis is as close as I've seen to Luck since Luck... closer than Bortles to my eye.

And Luck had players around him. Stanford averaged over 200 ypg rushing his Sr. year. Stephan Taylor had over 1300. Two receivers, Fleener and Whalen, put up 700 yard-ish seasons and 5 other players had 300 or more. Plus the O-line included DeCastro and Martin, an eventual first and second rounder respectively.

The Gipper

@jafbf said:

Ya know, I think she's a total scuz . . . so why do I still like that pic ?

Much prefer this if we need to go there :

Except...that IS a hole that needs to be filled.

Mudfly

@jafbf said:
So Gilbert all of sudden has his shit together ?

And Buster does????.....Ill admit he looked better this year, but I wouldnt say "good"......

@gumby73 said:

Skrine damn, the flood gates are opening in C-town to get out Just when you started to play well.. He was Burnt like toast for 2years

Actually, he was burnt plenty of times this year too......gave up 8 tds and had massive penalties.....dude is flailing out there.....

@tour2ma said:
Browns just are not going to offer Shrine what the open market will. A least not with Gilbert, Desir and K'Waun on the roster. Thought has to be that at least one will step up.

Definitely, with 3 players all of whom have higher upsides than Skrine, I think they'll play the odds that one(or 2 even) can step in and handle the job as well or better than Skrine......

MLD Woody

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

BUSTA!

tiamat63

@tour2ma said:

I dunno, t... Not saying I could spend three #1's on him, even with no personal issues, but Jameis is as close as I've seen to Luck since Luck... closer than Bortles to my eye.

And Luck had players around him. Stanford averaged over 200 ypg rushing his Sr. year. Stephan Taylor had over 1300. Two receivers, Fleener and Whalen, put up 700 yard-ish seasons and 5 other players had 300 or more. Plus the O-line included DeCastro and Martin, an eventual first and second rounder respectively.

I'm not saying Luck didn't have talent around him, he did. However his talent was mainly on the Oline. Compare that to Winston, whom had the privilege of playing behind a line that might see every player drafted. Also while having great skill position players including Benjamin, Greene, O'Leary, & Freeman in his time.

edit: Getting ready to watch Louisville vs Virginia. I want to see what all this talk about Eli Harold is. All I know so far is the kid is wearing my #7. That's it.

MLD Woody

Mike Mayock's Top 5 Players by Position: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000470108/article/mike-mayocks-position-rankings-for-2015-nfl-draft

Quarterback
1. Jameis Winston, Florida State
2. Marcus Mariota, Oregon
3. Bryce Petty, Baylor
4. Brett Hundley, UCLA
5. Garrett Grayson, Colorado State

Running back
1. Melvin Gordon, Wisconsin
2. Todd Gurley, Georgia
3. Ameer Abdullah, Nebraska
4. Duke Johnson, Miami (Fla.)
5. Tevin Coleman, Indiana

Wide receiver
1. Kevin White, West Virginia
2. Amari Cooper, Alabama
3. DeVante Parker, Louisville
4. Dorial Green-Beckham, Missouri
5. Devin Funchess, Michigan

Tight end
1. Maxx Williams, Minnesota
2. Clive Walford, Miami (Fla.)
3. Nick O'Leary, Florida State
4. Tyler Kroft, Rutgers
5. Ben Koyack, Notre Dame

Interior offensive linemen
1. Brandon Scherff, Iowa
2. Cameron Erving, Florida State
3. Laken Tomlinson, Duke
4. A.J. Cann, South Carolina
5. Tre' Jackson, Florida State

Offensive tackle
1. T.J. Clemmings, Pittsburgh
2. Andrus Peat, Stanford
3. La'el Collins, LSU
4. Ereck Flowers, Miami (Fla.)
5t. Cedric Ogbuehi, Texas A&M
5t. D.J. Humphries, Florida

Interior defensive linemen
1. Leonard Williams, USC
2. Danny Shelton, Washington
3. Malcom Brown, Texas
4. Arik Armstead, Oregon
5t. Jordan Phillips, Oklahoma
5t. Eddie Goldman, Florida State

Edge rusher
1. Dante Fowler, Jr., Florida
2. Randy Gregory, Nebraska
3. Shane Ray, Missouri
4. Vic Beasley, Clemson
5. Bud Dupree, Kentucky

Linebacker
1. Paul Dawson, TCU
2. Benardrick McKinney, Mississippi State
3. Denzel Perryman, Miami (Fla.)
4. Eric Kendricks, UCLA
5. Stephone Anthony, Clemson

Cornerback
1. Trae Waynes, Michigan State
2. Marcus Peters, Washington
3. Jalen Collins, LSU
4. P.J. Williams, Florida State
5. Kevin Johnson, Wake Forest

Safety
1. Landon Collins, Alabama
2. Shaq Thompson, Washington
3. Derron Smith, Fresno State
4. Jaquiski Tartt, Samford
5. Ibraheim Campbell, Northwestern

tiamat63

Just watched a fair bit on Jordan Philips. I thought I was watching Big Phil when be was at Baylor. He doesn't dominate the center one on one because he doesn't have the burst or arm length. At the 0 tech he's a non existent pass rusher and gets stood up, quite a bit. At a 1tech he's a little more disruptive, flows pretty well laterally and looks serviceable.

He was worn down very, very quickly though. Probably the least stamina from any potential nose I've seen so far. Doesn't shed blocks very well because of his arm length, soft hands and lack of lateral quickness.

Maybe with a year or two in an NFL strength and conditioning program I could see a worthy higher investment. As it stands, I'm not putting anything more than a 2nd round pick down for this kid.

calfoxwc

I had Philips in my mock draft, second round...but I wouldn't draft him now...

A big guy with serious intensity and conditioning would be great....

like Malcolm Brown, 30 lbs heavier... maybe Shelton is that guy in the NFL....

secondwave

In what scenario would you guys consider drafting Tevin Coleman? Perhaps third round?

I wouldn't mind if our first four picks looked like:

1-12. DT - Danny Shelton

1-19. OT - TJ Clemmings (or La'el Collins)

2. WR - Dorial Green-Beckham

3. RB - Tevin Coleman

I don't believe he'll fall past the third round. I actually think he'll end up being a better runningback than Melvin Gordon and on the same level as a healthy Todd Gurley.

Mudfly

@secondwave said:

In what scenario would you guys consider drafting Tevin Coleman? Perhaps third round?

I wouldn't mind if our first four picks looked like:

1-12. DT - Danny Shelton

1-19. OT - TJ Clemmings (or La'el Collins)

2. WR - Dorial Green-Beckham

3. RB - Tevin Coleman

I don't believe he'll fall past the third round. I actually think he'll end up being a better runningback than Melvin Gordon and on the same level as a healthy Todd Gurley.

Honestly, I dont see any scenario where we pick a running back......unless it's a FB in the later rounds...

TexasAg1969

If you want a short yardage guy in the late rounds I would go with Texas's RB Malcolm Brown. Very underrated due to really crappy OL (59 total team offensive yards against Ark. in the bowl) in front of him. Excellent hard hitting straight ahead runner.

Tour2ma

@mudfly said:
Honestly, I dont see any scenario where we pick a running back......unless it's a FB in the later rounds...

There look to be a couple RBs that have the size to play FB, but even better options may be a couple undersized TEs.

tiamat63

Took a full game look at Eli Harold. I can compare him quite well to Mingo.

The good:

Wears #7. Long arms, long legs, good initial burst with a long stride. He's willing to fight to hold the point of attack against the run and shows the ability to get around the corner or setup a decent inside move. Great motor and willing to run as far as it takes to track down a ball carrier. Lean frame, looks like he could pack on 5-10 pounds without hurting his first step. Appears to flow adequately in space when dropping into coverage and has plenty of work from the 2 point. Uses his hands effectively enough when getting around or by a tackle.

The bad: Much like Mingo, he can be blocked rather easy and once he's engaged, shedding the block or using his hands to begin with are an issue. A couple of times against Louisville he was taken out of a play to his side by a TE. Has trouble converting speed to power and is ineffective on any interiors stunts or twists. Doesn't use his hands naturally nor violently to stay upright to prevent being cut. He doesn't have the first step I saw Mingo have at LSU, although Harold plays a ton from the 2 point stance and Mingo had his hand in the ground. He might actually be a liability in run defense his first year or two. In his coverage drops he really doesn't get much depth or width when necessary, can often find himself staring into the backfield and not effecting passing lanes to his curl/flat responsibility.

I wouldn't invest a 2nd round pick unless you want him to be a pure, situational pass rusher while he develops the rest of his game. 3rd round pick would be a bit more wise but I have a feeling he'll be a combine workout warrior (outside of the bench)

Tour2ma

DraftScout has Harold as a late 1st/ early 2nd prospect. Their assessment is very close to yours. Sounds like a 4-3 OLB.

"Harold is a quick starter off the ball with natural burst out of his stance and an active play style to attack blockers. With quick footwork, he is a pesky defender to block in space and does a nice job with his upper body to extend and lock out, putting linemen on their heels. Harold has a lean build with minimal bulk on his frame and needs to develop his functional power for the next level to better match up on the edges as a run defender. He also tends to rush too upright, negating his flexibility or leverage, allowing blockers to engulf and overwhelm him. Harold leaves Virginia with an impressive resume for a two-year starter, including 141 tackles, 36.5 tackles for loss, 17.5 sacks and four fumble recoveries. - The Sports Xchange"

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=123342&draftyear=2015&genpos=OLB

tiamat63

I will disagree with their 1st/2nd round investment. At least, from the stand point of the Browns. Maybe for a team that can afford to have him play sparingly for the first couple years, sure.

In regards to playing a Will spot in a more 43 look, I don't think he can do that either without serious coaching, patience and time. Even then I still think he'd be out of position. Like I said, he's very, very comparable to Mingo in many respects.

I'm going to take a longer look at Collins (CB) out of LSU. From what I know, great physical skills that you would want in a press corner. I know Tharold Simon was drafted rather late and has been a decent addition to the Seahawks roster when he's been called on. Seeing as how we're letting Buster walk and praying Gilbert can man the #2 spot, I'd fully expect a mid-to late round DB being taken in this draft. I'm also going to try and watch Durell Eskridge (S) out of Syracuse tonight.

tiamat63

About Collins... he has FS size. 6'2 200lbs. He doesn't play with a low center like you see most great CB's. Opens his hips too early quite a bit and overall doesn't look comfortable squared up. He's naturally too far back in his stance when he is, meaning his balance is routinely off as well. At LSU he was asked to play quite a bit of off coverage from what I saw. That clearly isn't his game as he can't flip his hips in space, turn and run. Stiff in that particular regard. When he does stay in his stance, he turns to run a bit too late... which isn't terrible considering his height, arm length and straight line speed. He just doesn't seem to trust himself in with those aspects. His counterpart across the field jumped off the screen a couple times while I was watching him.

However, he is very physical for a corner. Made two great tackles on Melvin Gordon in open space and is not at all afraid to come up and support the edges against the run or fill against a tight end or tackle. Pretty decent awareness, instincts, nose for the ball. Great arm length which he can (and does) use to his advantage.

The thing that separates this kid from being Sherman is that he opens his hips just a bit too quick and doesn't trust his ability to attack the ball in the air on downfield throws. You're 6'2 bud, you can get those hands up and make it a nightmare to put a ball over the top. If Collins is open for coaching and application, you might have a very good boundary corner with all the physical abilities to press effectively. Depending on who is getting their hands on him, the physical skills say he could go mid 3rd. The combine might drop him a bit lower if his lateral agility is subpar. I've seen where people mention moving him to center field. I don't understand if people that work for the media or teams have ever tried that themselves. Playing safety is a totally different monster than CB. I don't think the recognition of play concepts is at the level it needs to be for him to make the switch.

I was going to watch Eskridge but then Kevin White out of TCU caught my eye... I've only watched just a few minutes, but I"m highly intrigued already.

Tour2ma

You make Collins sound like a good SS candidate.

tiamat63

@tour2ma said:
You make Collins sound like a good SS candidate.

I wouldn't go as far as to say he's a good SS candidate, but I wasn't very impressive with Durell Eskridge. Collins might just be a better prospect, but not by a whole hell of a lot.

When I think of a SS in this defense, I think of Ward and Donte. Not afraid to come up and lay the lumber. Neither of those guys are in that mold, even for how physical Collins is at the CB spot.

Kevin White (TCU)... on the other hand. He looks like a smaller version of Haden in pads. He's the size of Buster, but plays much bigger than he is. Good wingspan, comfortable in off coverage, sound footwork, smooth back peddle with good balance because of his size. The thing that really sticks out to me that makes me draw the Haden comparison so much is 1) the willingness to come up and tackle 2) his ability to drive on the ball. That is was separates good corners from average corners. Your ability to see something, plant your foot and attack quickly. Joe has that, so does Kevin. I like what I see. I'm going to be watching this kid intently during the combine.

Naberius_Cerbera

If Kevin White is there at 12, I want him. Dez Bryant-like.