2015 - FA / Draft / Notes

ballpeen

@jafbf said:

Grossi defused that it was (potentially) not going to happen in that Manziel being traded was mentioned as being shot down, but there's still hype about Brown three #1's for TB's #1.

Granted, a lot can happen over the next few days - especially with the Combine next week - but after the Browns picked Manziel last year, with Farmer liking Mariota so much and all the activity . . . I just have to worry.

I might be able to live with that trade for Winston as McShay rates him as the best player in the entire Draft - even with his warts . . . but damn, that's an awful lot when we have so many holes to fill.

Side note :

Not a huge loss, but it does create yet another hole to fill.

No big deal on McQuistain. He was a decent player some years ago but is now headed for retirement. I'd rather bring in a rook or a 2-3 year player and take my chances they still have upside. We can find 2-3 dozen guys who can do just as well if not better.

gumby73

@jafbf said:

WTF ?

So Gilbert all of sudden has his shit together ?

Man, what's going on this Off-Season?

Skrine damn, the flood gates are opening in C-town to get out Just when you started to play well.. He was Burnt like toast for 2years and we let him play "to work it out" that's why loyalty will kiss you in the ass..

JAFBF

@the-gipper said:

You are right, there are some holes that it is better to go unfilled.

Ya know, I think she's a total scuz . . . so why do I still like that pic ?

Much prefer this if we need to go there :

Tour2ma

@jafbf said:

I might be able to live with that trade for Winston as McShay rates him as the best player in the entire Draft - even with his warts . . . but damn, that's an awful lot when we have so many holes to fill.

Side note: (McQuistan) Not a huge loss, but it does create yet another hole to fill.

No... no loss whatsoever. McQ was a waste of space. Painter and Bowie were in storage and should both emerge in 2015. One replaces McQ and the other should send Seymore packing.

On Winston... if I had the #1 overall I would not hesitate to spend it on Winston. But trading up he gets even more expensive. Harder call in my mind. I assume the third #1 you mention would be our 2016? That makes it really hard...

And as WSH found out, if MM goes #1 to the Bucs, then that #2 pick gets to be awfully pricey as well.

@jafbf said:
So Gilbert all of sudden has his shit together ?

Browns just are not going to offer Shrine what the open market will. A least not with Gilbert, Desir and K'Waun on the roster. Thought has to be that at least one will step up.

tiamat63

Mortgaging the farm for one player with holes in his game and some off field noise is a fools errand.

Only player I would have been willing to do that for in the last 5 years is Luck. I don't see Winston currently having anywhere near that ability and he's been playing with more talent surrounding him than Andrew had at Stanford.

Tour2ma

I dunno, t... Not saying I could spend three #1's on him, even with no personal issues, but Jameis is as close as I've seen to Luck since Luck... closer than Bortles to my eye.

And Luck had players around him. Stanford averaged over 200 ypg rushing his Sr. year. Stephan Taylor had over 1300. Two receivers, Fleener and Whalen, put up 700 yard-ish seasons and 5 other players had 300 or more. Plus the O-line included DeCastro and Martin, an eventual first and second rounder respectively.

The Gipper

@jafbf said:

Ya know, I think she's a total scuz . . . so why do I still like that pic ?

Much prefer this if we need to go there :

Except...that IS a hole that needs to be filled.

Mudfly

@jafbf said:
So Gilbert all of sudden has his shit together ?

And Buster does????.....Ill admit he looked better this year, but I wouldnt say "good"......

@gumby73 said:

Skrine damn, the flood gates are opening in C-town to get out Just when you started to play well.. He was Burnt like toast for 2years

Actually, he was burnt plenty of times this year too......gave up 8 tds and had massive penalties.....dude is flailing out there.....

@tour2ma said:
Browns just are not going to offer Shrine what the open market will. A least not with Gilbert, Desir and K'Waun on the roster. Thought has to be that at least one will step up.

Definitely, with 3 players all of whom have higher upsides than Skrine, I think they'll play the odds that one(or 2 even) can step in and handle the job as well or better than Skrine......

MLD Woody

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

BUSTA!

tiamat63

@tour2ma said:

I dunno, t... Not saying I could spend three #1's on him, even with no personal issues, but Jameis is as close as I've seen to Luck since Luck... closer than Bortles to my eye.

And Luck had players around him. Stanford averaged over 200 ypg rushing his Sr. year. Stephan Taylor had over 1300. Two receivers, Fleener and Whalen, put up 700 yard-ish seasons and 5 other players had 300 or more. Plus the O-line included DeCastro and Martin, an eventual first and second rounder respectively.

I'm not saying Luck didn't have talent around him, he did. However his talent was mainly on the Oline. Compare that to Winston, whom had the privilege of playing behind a line that might see every player drafted. Also while having great skill position players including Benjamin, Greene, O'Leary, & Freeman in his time.

edit: Getting ready to watch Louisville vs Virginia. I want to see what all this talk about Eli Harold is. All I know so far is the kid is wearing my #7. That's it.

MLD Woody

Mike Mayock's Top 5 Players by Position: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000470108/article/mike-mayocks-position-rankings-for-2015-nfl-draft

Quarterback
1. Jameis Winston, Florida State
2. Marcus Mariota, Oregon
3. Bryce Petty, Baylor
4. Brett Hundley, UCLA
5. Garrett Grayson, Colorado State

Running back
1. Melvin Gordon, Wisconsin
2. Todd Gurley, Georgia
3. Ameer Abdullah, Nebraska
4. Duke Johnson, Miami (Fla.)
5. Tevin Coleman, Indiana

Wide receiver
1. Kevin White, West Virginia
2. Amari Cooper, Alabama
3. DeVante Parker, Louisville
4. Dorial Green-Beckham, Missouri
5. Devin Funchess, Michigan

Tight end
1. Maxx Williams, Minnesota
2. Clive Walford, Miami (Fla.)
3. Nick O'Leary, Florida State
4. Tyler Kroft, Rutgers
5. Ben Koyack, Notre Dame

Interior offensive linemen
1. Brandon Scherff, Iowa
2. Cameron Erving, Florida State
3. Laken Tomlinson, Duke
4. A.J. Cann, South Carolina
5. Tre' Jackson, Florida State

Offensive tackle
1. T.J. Clemmings, Pittsburgh
2. Andrus Peat, Stanford
3. La'el Collins, LSU
4. Ereck Flowers, Miami (Fla.)
5t. Cedric Ogbuehi, Texas A&M
5t. D.J. Humphries, Florida

Interior defensive linemen
1. Leonard Williams, USC
2. Danny Shelton, Washington
3. Malcom Brown, Texas
4. Arik Armstead, Oregon
5t. Jordan Phillips, Oklahoma
5t. Eddie Goldman, Florida State

Edge rusher
1. Dante Fowler, Jr., Florida
2. Randy Gregory, Nebraska
3. Shane Ray, Missouri
4. Vic Beasley, Clemson
5. Bud Dupree, Kentucky

Linebacker
1. Paul Dawson, TCU
2. Benardrick McKinney, Mississippi State
3. Denzel Perryman, Miami (Fla.)
4. Eric Kendricks, UCLA
5. Stephone Anthony, Clemson

Cornerback
1. Trae Waynes, Michigan State
2. Marcus Peters, Washington
3. Jalen Collins, LSU
4. P.J. Williams, Florida State
5. Kevin Johnson, Wake Forest

Safety
1. Landon Collins, Alabama
2. Shaq Thompson, Washington
3. Derron Smith, Fresno State
4. Jaquiski Tartt, Samford
5. Ibraheim Campbell, Northwestern

tiamat63

Just watched a fair bit on Jordan Philips. I thought I was watching Big Phil when be was at Baylor. He doesn't dominate the center one on one because he doesn't have the burst or arm length. At the 0 tech he's a non existent pass rusher and gets stood up, quite a bit. At a 1tech he's a little more disruptive, flows pretty well laterally and looks serviceable.

He was worn down very, very quickly though. Probably the least stamina from any potential nose I've seen so far. Doesn't shed blocks very well because of his arm length, soft hands and lack of lateral quickness.

Maybe with a year or two in an NFL strength and conditioning program I could see a worthy higher investment. As it stands, I'm not putting anything more than a 2nd round pick down for this kid.

calfoxwc

I had Philips in my mock draft, second round...but I wouldn't draft him now...

A big guy with serious intensity and conditioning would be great....

like Malcolm Brown, 30 lbs heavier... maybe Shelton is that guy in the NFL....

secondwave

In what scenario would you guys consider drafting Tevin Coleman? Perhaps third round?

I wouldn't mind if our first four picks looked like:

1-12. DT - Danny Shelton

1-19. OT - TJ Clemmings (or La'el Collins)

2. WR - Dorial Green-Beckham

3. RB - Tevin Coleman

I don't believe he'll fall past the third round. I actually think he'll end up being a better runningback than Melvin Gordon and on the same level as a healthy Todd Gurley.

Mudfly

@secondwave said:

In what scenario would you guys consider drafting Tevin Coleman? Perhaps third round?

I wouldn't mind if our first four picks looked like:

1-12. DT - Danny Shelton

1-19. OT - TJ Clemmings (or La'el Collins)

2. WR - Dorial Green-Beckham

3. RB - Tevin Coleman

I don't believe he'll fall past the third round. I actually think he'll end up being a better runningback than Melvin Gordon and on the same level as a healthy Todd Gurley.

Honestly, I dont see any scenario where we pick a running back......unless it's a FB in the later rounds...

TexasAg1969

If you want a short yardage guy in the late rounds I would go with Texas's RB Malcolm Brown. Very underrated due to really crappy OL (59 total team offensive yards against Ark. in the bowl) in front of him. Excellent hard hitting straight ahead runner.

Tour2ma

@mudfly said:
Honestly, I dont see any scenario where we pick a running back......unless it's a FB in the later rounds...

There look to be a couple RBs that have the size to play FB, but even better options may be a couple undersized TEs.

tiamat63

Took a full game look at Eli Harold. I can compare him quite well to Mingo.

The good:

Wears #7. Long arms, long legs, good initial burst with a long stride. He's willing to fight to hold the point of attack against the run and shows the ability to get around the corner or setup a decent inside move. Great motor and willing to run as far as it takes to track down a ball carrier. Lean frame, looks like he could pack on 5-10 pounds without hurting his first step. Appears to flow adequately in space when dropping into coverage and has plenty of work from the 2 point. Uses his hands effectively enough when getting around or by a tackle.

The bad: Much like Mingo, he can be blocked rather easy and once he's engaged, shedding the block or using his hands to begin with are an issue. A couple of times against Louisville he was taken out of a play to his side by a TE. Has trouble converting speed to power and is ineffective on any interiors stunts or twists. Doesn't use his hands naturally nor violently to stay upright to prevent being cut. He doesn't have the first step I saw Mingo have at LSU, although Harold plays a ton from the 2 point stance and Mingo had his hand in the ground. He might actually be a liability in run defense his first year or two. In his coverage drops he really doesn't get much depth or width when necessary, can often find himself staring into the backfield and not effecting passing lanes to his curl/flat responsibility.

I wouldn't invest a 2nd round pick unless you want him to be a pure, situational pass rusher while he develops the rest of his game. 3rd round pick would be a bit more wise but I have a feeling he'll be a combine workout warrior (outside of the bench)

Tour2ma

DraftScout has Harold as a late 1st/ early 2nd prospect. Their assessment is very close to yours. Sounds like a 4-3 OLB.

"Harold is a quick starter off the ball with natural burst out of his stance and an active play style to attack blockers. With quick footwork, he is a pesky defender to block in space and does a nice job with his upper body to extend and lock out, putting linemen on their heels. Harold has a lean build with minimal bulk on his frame and needs to develop his functional power for the next level to better match up on the edges as a run defender. He also tends to rush too upright, negating his flexibility or leverage, allowing blockers to engulf and overwhelm him. Harold leaves Virginia with an impressive resume for a two-year starter, including 141 tackles, 36.5 tackles for loss, 17.5 sacks and four fumble recoveries. - The Sports Xchange"

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=123342&draftyear=2015&genpos=OLB

tiamat63

I will disagree with their 1st/2nd round investment. At least, from the stand point of the Browns. Maybe for a team that can afford to have him play sparingly for the first couple years, sure.

In regards to playing a Will spot in a more 43 look, I don't think he can do that either without serious coaching, patience and time. Even then I still think he'd be out of position. Like I said, he's very, very comparable to Mingo in many respects.

I'm going to take a longer look at Collins (CB) out of LSU. From what I know, great physical skills that you would want in a press corner. I know Tharold Simon was drafted rather late and has been a decent addition to the Seahawks roster when he's been called on. Seeing as how we're letting Buster walk and praying Gilbert can man the #2 spot, I'd fully expect a mid-to late round DB being taken in this draft. I'm also going to try and watch Durell Eskridge (S) out of Syracuse tonight.