What receiver do we go after in draft/FA?

[tiamat63]

@tour2ma said:

Not sure about right or wrong, but we agree... Given some of the hype I read on Scherff here and elsewhere, I could not believe what I saw on the tape. Here are my raw notes:

Brandon Scherff: Iowa (02-02-15) vs. IND&Maryland -

No kick dropstep - shuffles; good feet; good hands, but high.

Prone to getting bulled by power and faked by speed.

Good accel, no drive. Do not run his way much. Head? Strength?

Athletic, but fundamentally weak.

I never saw him move a D-lineman. I do not see how he moves inside given this. I do not see him going in the first round, let alone as the first OT taken, given this.

You're far more technically sound than I for what you're looking at.

I agree, though. I just seem his soul being eaten by pass rushers at the next level.

[jrb12711]

@tiamat63 said:

You're far more technically sound than I for what you're looking at.

I agree, though. I just seem his soul being eaten by pass rushers at the next level.

Great talk both guys, way better than I could do. My only question having done no research is how did he win the Outland trophy with those flaws? I guess what are the pros to make him that highly honored?

[tiamat63]

@jrb12711 said:

Great talk both guys, way better than I could do. My only question having done no research is how did he win the Outland trophy with those flaws? I guess what are the pros to make him that highly honored?

Every player has flaws in their game, however Schreff plays in an offense that helps minimize those flaws. Heavy, run oriented offense with a TE to his side that on the regular asks him to combo block and peel off to a linebacker. Which he is very good at, I'll say. But in the NFL you can't expect a TE to neutralize good DE's even after the tackle has floated to his second level responsibility.

I'd also say stats, or lack thereof. In which case I'm sure some scout will toss around the lack of sacks given up by the kid. Which is fine out of context, until you seem him on tape and realize he isn't put in a hell of a lot of obvious 1on1 passing down protections.

edit: As for scouts? Hell if I know. Shot in the dark - Scouts see what they want to or what they believe a finished product will look like without going further in depth on why it may be impossible to get beyond collegiate limitations. I laughed at Jamarcus Russell being rated so high. I watched his LSU tape and a few games. It was nice seeing him getting bailed out by Bowe, Lafell, Doucet and company. A smart, accurate QB he was not and it was painfully obvious. Ditto with Brady (short off story, my grandmother called me crying she was so happy that day (Devout Irish Catholic. I remember telling her plainly, worst decision Savage ever made) having Samarjudia (spell check) Stovalt and Mcknight. Its a lot easier to look good when you have 6'4 receivers catching jump balls.

[Tour2ma]

"Hiding" fits with my one comment that he was rarely at the point of attack on runs.

@jrb12711 said:

Great talk both guys, way better than I could do. My only question having done no research is how did he win the Outland trophy with those flaws? I guess what are the pros to make him that highly honored?

I thought maybe I just happened to watch Scherff's two worst game tapes. Excepting maybe bench reps the kid may kill the Combine measurables and many of the field drills, but not the pass drop drill.

In one half vs. Notre Dame Andrus Peat showed he's the real deal.

[jrb12711]

^^^Interesting from both of you all. I wouldn't be surprised if this FO targets a OL with one of our picks so I'm pretty curious who may be the "best". One thing for sure it seems like no one likes a guy for a #1 overall talent which is interesting.

[Tour2ma]

Yeah... DEs look to be the rage for 2015 with three in the top ten.

Anyone looked at Dupree as 3-4 OLB? As of now he's the one that might fall as far as #12

[Mudfly]

@jrb12711 said:

^^^Interesting from both of you all. I wouldn't be surprised if this FO targets a OL with one of our picks so I'm pretty curious who may be the "best". One thing for sure it seems like no one likes a guy for a #1 overall talent which is interesting.

I like Tre Jackson from Florida......would be idea for our system and would be a major score in the 3rd.......

[tiamat63]

@tour2ma said:

Yeah... DEs look to be the rage for 2015 with three in the top ten.

Anyone looked at Dupree as 3-4 OLB? As of now he's the one that might fall as far as #12

Dupree will far further than that. Well... He or Beasley.

I had a scenario in mind that might be interesting.

Say that Shelton is gone before 12, Philly will panic thinking we're taking Mariota. Offer them a trade down, we take their 20th and this years 2nd rounder which is only a difference of 20 points on the draft trade value (in our favor). Heck , might even be able to fleece them for a 1st like we did Buffalo.

At 19 take Carl Davis, at 20 take Dupree or Beasley. That's the beauty of the strength of this class. It plays right into the hands of Farmers game.

This draft will be heavy on interior Dline. Shelton and Brown won't make it past 17 in any scenario.

We can't wait past 19 to take Dline because Cincy and Indy WILL take them.

In theory, With the additional 2nd rounder ( giving us 2) voted to package a 5th and maybe 7th to tempt sliding up between 34-35th, take Garrett Grayson and finally at 43rd WR Devin Smith or the best WR available.

3rd round you can get your quality swing man on the Oline, 4th round you can take Heureman or whatever best TE prospect you so choose and get creative with the additional 4th rounder.

Ideally we would get Shelton and be able to trade down our 19th. That shit would be no mans land then - at least get some ammo out of it and target either OT or pass rusher late 1st.

[Tour2ma]

Interesting... but I have trouble seeing the Jets pass on a QB. If by some chance MM falls to MN with our current QB situation, then their phone will go crazy. However, should we dramatically alter our situation prior to the draft...

I assume you meant Dupree will fall further... Maybe, but I think his stock is already rising. With Gregory and Ray going top 5, the DE momentum may well sweep Dupree upwards. I've not looked at any tape on him, but his measureables seem to scream OLB for any 3-4 team... or Pet. Beasley is a tad small for a Pet OLB... no?

I am with you on the bottom half of the 1st round potentially being a desert for us. Certainly has been in most of my First-Pick efforts.

@mudfly said:

I like Tre Jackson from Florida......would be idea for our system and would be a major score in the 3rd.......

On my radar as well, but have OTs to wrap up first. I know I like Laken Tomlinson.

[tiamat63]

@tour2ma said:

Interesting... but I have trouble seeing the Jets pass on a QB. If by some chance MM falls to MN with our current QB situation, then their phone will go crazy. However, should we dramatically alter our situation prior to the draft...

I assume you meant Dupree will fall further... Maybe, but I think his stock is already rising. With Gregory and Ray going top 5, the DE momentum may well sweep Dupree upwards. I've not looked at any tape on him, but his measureables seem to scream OLB for any 3-4 team... or Pet. Beasley is a tad small for a Pet OLB... no?

I am with you on the bottom half of the 1st round potentially being a desert for us. Certainly has been in most of my First-Pick efforts.

On my radar as well, but have OTs to wrap up first. I know I like Laken Tomlinson.

To address the Jets - I disagree. The organization has the fresh memory of Geno lighting up his last game and there is set to be a good QB class next year. I have this feeling they'll ride out the storm, see if Geno improves. If he does not I have no doubt they'll be picking top 5 and in contention for a QB next year. A 2nd round QB pick would simply be rushed under center too soon for them. The Jets defensive backfield and linebackers still need a ton of help provided they don't con Revis into coming back home. They also have question marks along their Oline. Skill positions they're set but could use a good young rotational back because Chris Johnson has fallen off a cliff.

As for the rest - Yes, Dupree will fall further. He's looked at currently as the 5th best pass rusher behind Gregory, Ray, Fowler and Beasley. I can't envision any scenario where Gregory or Ray go top 5. I have trouble seeing ANY of them go top 5. (edit: I take that back - Washington will go OLB or DE as there isn't a DB worth a top 10 pick this year) Tennessee is a mortal lock for Leonard. Guy who can help his USC counter part stop the run and provide interior push. Jacksonville goes Peatrus all the way. There is not a chance in they don't spend picks helping their young QB. Oakland to me is interesting. Their pass rush is subpar outside of Mack and they don't stop the run well either, Shelton very well could fall to this spot given some of the under looks they run. If The Titans pass on Leonard, then he would be the pick. Either way I'd expect a big body here and I would be shocked if it didn't happen. Like, Bortles #3 overall type shocked.

Beasley is undersized. I think he's 230, but he's so damn quick off the ball and has long arms. His length reminds me of Mingo but Vic has a more compact motion and uses his hands better. Fact is, even as a situational pass rusher, I think he could come in and post 8-9 sacks his rookie year. He's a talent that can get to the QB and has a crazy motor, draft him and find a use for him. If he doesn't play in your base defense for the first year or so, or would only have responsibility in maintaining the edge against a TE, I wouldn't have a single problem with that. The guy abused Cam Erving who is a pretty damn good OT for FSU>.

I've seen some stuff on Dupree - its strange because in a way he makes me say "Oh look, there's Krug". There are also a couple things he's the complete opposite of Krug as well. The likeness is that he's pretty solid against the run, uses his arm length to keep tackles from getting into his body and sheds blocks ok. He could use some more work staying on his feet to avoid being cut down easily, but that's more of a situational awareness thing. What he's opposite at? His pass rush burst with his hand in the dirt is terrible. He's only really effective getting at the QB while in a 2 point stance. Which is kind of wonderful because if the staff wants to have a pass rusher with his hand in the ground and one standing during obvious passing downs - this is the combo you'd want to have. Paul can have his hand in the dirt and this kid won't need one.

The only issue is that means our interior pass rush as it stands, will rely solely on Desmond Bishop, who (quietly) had a pretty good year. Unless Big Phil & Monty come off injury and round back into form.

Although it may be quite moot, once scouts take a long look at Gregory, they'll see what I see and he'll drop like a rock.

[Tour2ma]

@tiamat63 said:

I've seen some stuff on Dupree - its strange because in a way he makes me say "Oh look, there's Krug". There are also a couple things he's the complete opposite of Krug as well. The likeness is that he's pretty solid against the run, uses his arm length to keep tackles from getting into his body and sheds blocks ok. He could use some more work staying on his feet to avoid being cut down easily, but that's more of a situational awareness thing. What he's opposite at? His pass rush burst with his hand in the dirt is terrible. He's only really effective getting at the QB while in a 2 point stance. Which is kind of wonderful because if the staff wants to have a pass rusher with his hand in the ground and one standing during obvious passing downs - this is the combo you'd want to have. Paul can have his hand in the dirt and this kid won't need one.

Although it may be quite moot, once scouts take a long look at Gregory, they'll see what I see and he'll drop like a rock.

On Dupree... very much in line with what tape I have seen on him... which is not much. I see in him the potential to fill the OLB-opposite-Krugs role that Sheard never quite did.

Ditto on Gregory... and again I've spent little time on the D-side, but kinda like Scherff, I have yet to see what has earned him his lofty early status.

[stillmotion]

We need a sick ILB. I'm sick of the ravens and the bills picking up the likes and Mosley and Kiko Alonso.

[tiamat63]

@stillmotion said:

We need a sick ILB. I'm sick of the ravens and the bills picking up the likes and Mosley and Kiko Alonso.

Dansby, a break out year Robertson, Kirksey and Carder. That's a pretty damn good inside combination. As it stands, ILB is about the least of our worries.

[BaconHound]

@tiamat63 said:

Dansby, a break out year Robertson, Kirksey and Carder. That's a pretty damn good inside combination. As it stands, ILB is about the least of our worries.

I sorta agree wii stillmotion, while we have seen improvement in our ILB none of them play the run all that well. If the RB breaks the line of scrimmage they typically gouge us for 8-10 yards. Our current ILBs are great side to side but not much for stepping up and lowering the boom.

[Tour2ma]

I'd love to upgrade ILB. But I don't see a dominant one in the draft. I do like Penn St.'s Hull as a Day Two prospect, but don't expect any immediate impact.

Of the FAs McClain would seem to fit Pet's D, but hard to see Dallas letting him go, but cap may get in their way. Maybe the Bills' Spikes?

I did not realize that Robertson is an ERFA. Should get an idea of how well he is regarded.

[tiamat63]

@tour2ma said:

I'd love to upgrade ILB. But I don't see a dominant one in the draft. I do like Penn St.'s Hull as a Day Two prospect, but don't expect any immediate impact.

Of the FAs McClain would seem to fit Pet's D, but hard to see Dallas letting him go, but cap may get in their way. Maybe the Bills' Spikes?

I did not realize that Robertson is an ERFA. Should get an idea of how well he is regarded.

Spikes is a good run stuffer but wouldn't be present in our sub packages for passing downs and teams. Unless we manage to put a top 5 pass rush in front of him?

I myself, would like to resign Craig and Skrine. Two players whom have been in this organization for the length of their careers, have improved every year while being asked to learn different scheme's what feels like every year. Maintain continuity on defense is a big thing in my mind.

[miktoxic]

@mld-woody said:

I think he is a combine guy in the sense that there isn't a lot of film on him at WR. He's kind of an unknown. As opposed to combine guys that we have a lot of film on, and then just have a great combine.

if he could concentrate on getting those hands right i'd love to see funchess in a brown's uni.

with losing gordon we're left with miles austin as the only one of our wideouts with size. cameron is prob gone so...............

take a look at the WR prospects. we need big and tall and besides a guy from some small school with huge off the field issues, funchess fits the bill.