Rumor: Browns interested in trading up for Mariota
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1) Mariota is not a savior of anything.
He's not even the day1 starter.
He IS NOT ACCURATE under pressure in college .. what magical unicorn thinking allows anyone reading this thread to convince themselves that he'll be Tarkenton just because he's now getting paid? He still sucks.
2) The 2014 Browns defense was not magnificent.. and the 2015 version will be missing both Skrine and Sheard at minimum. We cannot afford to throw away bucketloads of picks for a guy who is barely a backup.
Don't forget: We'd be also giving up the opportunity to get Shelton at NT to replace the flaps of skin labeled Rubin and Taylor, and upgrades at OT/OLB/ILB.. the players we would have taken at those pick positions. News flash: Robinson is not good. Mingo is a substitute, not a 1st round difference-maker. And who do we have at RT?
Will a QB depth chart consisting only of Heisman winners give us a free 12 points at the start of the game? No?
Then don't waste one moment of anyone's time even contemplating this nonsense.
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I've read everything posted on this and it is a close call. Good arguments on anyway we go. We need a quarterback. That is our most pressing need. We also need to upgrade defense to stop the run. We need a wide receiver. So we have multiple needs. Then you have to prioritize what is the most important? Probably quarterback but is this a good year for that? It doesn't seem to be.
For me the safest bet is to resign Hoyer if possible and get the other upgrades. Let Manziel try to beat him out as starter in pre-season. Hoyer is good enough to be a bridge quarterback until the right time comes to try for the franchise quarterback. That is not a great option either after witnessing the collapse of our offense the second half of the season. I have to wonder though how much losing Mack and our run game dropping off after that was the main reason for Hoyer struggling? It seems like any quarterback would struggle without a run game.
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A lot more foolish to ignore the needs of the team that have cost us success by squandering resources on 3 quarterbacks every season.
WSS
We gotta get one.
Brady
Wilson
Rodgers
Luck
Manning
Romo
Flacco
Cam
Those were the Quarterbacks of the last eight teams standing last year.
We have Manziel and Shaw.
C'mon man.
If you don't get the Qb right, everything else goes to waste.
Zombo
Zombo said:
We gotta get one.
Brady
Wilson
Rodgers
Luck
Manning
Romo
Flacco
Cam
Those were the Quarterbacks of the last eight teams standing last year.
We have Manziel and Shaw.
C'mon man.
If you don't get the Qb right, everything else goes to waste.
Zombo
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying we head in to the season with just JF and Shaw. All I am saying is it would be foolish to simply kick JF to the curb without one more good look.
It makes no sense.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
this is my position on the whole deal draft-wise.
what are our major holes on defense? a defense that could be top 5 in the league next year if prospects are drafted correctly? 1-2 DL (rubin gone, taylor hurt)? ILB? that's 3 right off the top.
so instead of upgrading and cementing the D to be the best in our conference, if not the division, we waste those 3 picks and hope on a wing and a prayer that one of these 2 QBs would pan out and be a starter from day one?
GTFO.
give me those 3 D picks a WR a backup C and a RT then in between if a guy like hundley or petty or mannion present themselves by all means throw in the card.
but to think the browns are only a QB away from being true contenders is ridiculous at this point.
this is my position on the whole deal draft-wise.
what are our major holes on defense? a defense that could be top 5 in the league next year if prospects are drafted correctly? 1-2 DL (rubin gone, taylor hurt)? ILB? that's 3 right off the top.
so instead of upgrading and cementing the D to be the best in our conference, if not the division, we waste those 3 picks and hope on a wing and a prayer that one of these 2 QBs would pan out and be a starter from day one?
GTFO.
give me those 3 D picks a WR a backup C and a RT then in between if a guy like hundley or petty or mannion present themselves by all means throw in the card.
but to think the browns are only a QB away from being true contenders is ridiculous at this point.
everything Mik just said x100. The two dominant teams in our division built their defensive core first then went out and found a QB. If we fuck about wasting resources on finding a QB we're going to miss this small window where the North teams are restructuring. We need a defense to compete with them. A mean one. We don't have that I don't care if we bring Brady in here he won't get shit done.
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Zombo said:
I think we need to find a gooddamn quarterback.
I think it is objective number one.
I have no idea if Mariotta is going to be the guy, but I want the Browns to go after whoever they think is the best guy out there draft/trade/fa.
Finding a franchise QB is job #1. Keep taking shots at it.
We have two SEC midgets, neither of whom are pocket passers, on our roster. One is raw and undrafted, the other is raw and overdrafted ... and in rehab.
The fucking position needs to be addressed.
Z
You said a lot, yet still didn't answer my question.
You said a lot, yet still didn't answer my question.
Yes, I did. I said i have no idea if Mariotta is the guy. I don't know if we start beating those teams if we draft him.
I'm not a scout. I'm a fan.
I'm telling you this team needs to do what it can to secure a QB this offseason. You keep bringing this back to Mariotta ... I keep trying to tell you that I don't know who the guy is, but whoever the Browns think they would like to target, whether it is through the draft, trade or free agency, they should go after without hesitation and not stand pat just because they drafted a QB in the first round last year. they can't count on him for anything.
If the Browns think Mariotta is a stud, then go for him. If they want Nick Foles and think they can get him in a trade, go for it. If they want to keep Hoyer and may like a QB in the later rounds, then do that ... but just do something because we need a goddamn QB, it's almost embarrassing that fan of the Cleveland Browns doesn't recognize that.
Zombo
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You said a lot, yet still didn't answer my question.
Yes, I did. I said i have no idea if Mariotta is the guy. I don't know if we start beating those teams if we draft him.
I'm not a scout. I'm a fan.
I'm telling you this team needs to do what it can to secure a QB this offseason. You keep bringing this back to Mariotta ... I keep trying to tell you that I don't know who the guy is, but whoever the Browns think they would like to target, whether it is through the draft, trade or free agency, they should go after without hesitation and not stand pat just because they drafted a QB in the first round last year. they can't count on him for anything.
If the Browns think Mariotta is a stud, then go for him. If they want Nick Foles and think they can get him in a trade, go for it. If they want to keep Hoyer and may like a QB in the later rounds, then do that ... but just do something because we need a goddamn QB, it's almost embarrassing that fan of the Cleveland Browns doesn't recognize that.
Zombo
Zombo said:
I'm telling you this team needs to do what it can to secure a QB this offseason. You keep bringing this back to Mariotta ... I keep trying to tell you that I don't know who the guy is, but whoever the Browns think they would like to target, whether it is through the draft, trade or free agency, they should go after without hesitation and not stand pat just because they drafted a QB in the first round last year. they can't count on him for anything.
If the Browns think Mariotta is a stud, then go for him. If they want Nick Foles and think they can get him in a trade, go for it. If they want to keep Hoyer and may like a QB in the later rounds, then do that ... but just do something because we need a goddamn QB, it's almost embarrassing that fan of the Cleveland Browns doesn't recognize that.
Zombo
way to serve up that softball....
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You said a lot, yet still didn't answer my question.
Yes, I did. I said i have no idea if Mariotta is the guy. I don't know if we start beating those teams if we draft him.
I'm not a scout. I'm a fan.
I'm telling you this team needs to do what it can to secure a QB this offseason. You keep bringing this back to Mariotta ... I keep trying to tell you that I don't know who the guy is, but whoever the Browns think they would like to target, whether it is through the draft, trade or free agency, they should go after without hesitation and not stand pat just because they drafted a QB in the first round last year. they can't count on him for anything.
If the Browns think Mariotta is a stud, then go for him. If they want Nick Foles and think they can get him in a trade, go for it. If they want to keep Hoyer and may like a QB in the later rounds, then do that ... but just do something because we need a goddamn QB, it's almost embarrassing that fan of the Cleveland Browns doesn't recognize that.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Yes, I did. I said i have no idea if Mariotta is the guy. I don't know if we start beating those teams if we draft him.
I'm not a scout. I'm a fan.
I'm telling you this team needs to do what it can to secure a QB this offseason. You keep bringing this back to Mariotta ... I keep trying to tell you that I don't know who the guy is, but whoever the Browns think they would like to target, whether it is through the draft, trade or free agency, they should go after without hesitation and not stand pat just because they drafted a QB in the first round last year. they can't count on him for anything.
If the Browns think Mariotta is a stud, then go for him. If they want Nick Foles and think they can get him in a trade, go for it. If they want to keep Hoyer and may like a QB in the later rounds, then do that ... but just do something because we need a goddamn QB, it's almost embarrassing that fan of the Cleveland Browns doesn't recognize that.
Zombo
What if they dont see anyone who they think is "the man"......?....let it go for a year?.....just asking
because I agree they should take a swing......unfortunately they'll get lambasted for it though.....(not my problem, I get it)(just a point for the bitchers, haters and whiners to think about)...
Took a swing at Weeden, Manziel and McCoy(for example).....they probably weren't 100% sold on any of them, but had to at least try, right?......
Of course, now they are dumb asses for doing so.....
So......"for the FO haters"(not you Z)......do we pick one we "hope" can make it or do we wait till we are 100% sure about a player and also happen to have the pick to get him(fyi - that might be 30-40 years, so I hope you can wait)......and if we do take a chance, then are we dumb asses who should be fired if it doesn't pan out?......
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Zombo said:
Yes, I did. I said i have no idea if Mariotta is the guy. I don't know if we start beating those teams if we draft him.
I'm not a scout. I'm a fan.
I'm telling you this team needs to do what it can to secure a QB this offseason. You keep bringing this back to Mariotta ... I keep trying to tell you that I don't know who the guy is, but whoever the Browns think they would like to target, whether it is through the draft, trade or free agency, they should go after without hesitation and not stand pat just because they drafted a QB in the first round last year. they can't count on him for anything.
If the Browns think Mariotta is a stud, then go for him. If they want Nick Foles and think they can get him in a trade, go for it. If they want to keep Hoyer and may like a QB in the later rounds, then do that ... but just do something because we need a goddamn QB, it's almost embarrassing that fan of the Cleveland Browns doesn't recognize that.
Zombo
What if they dont see anyone who they think is "the man"......?....let it go for a year?.....just asking
because I agree they should take a swing......unfortunately they'll get lambasted for it though.....(not my problem, I get it)(just a point for the bitchers, haters and whiners to think about)...
Took a swing at Weeden, Manziel and McCoy(for example).....they probably weren't 100% sold on any of them, but had to at least try, right?......
Of course, now they are dumb asses for doing so.....
So......"for the FO haters"(not you Z)......do we pick one we "hope" can make it or do we wait till we are 100% sure about a player and also happen to have the pick to get him(fyi - that might be 30-40 years, so I hope you can wait)......and if we do take a chance, then are we dumb asses who should be fired if it doesn't pan out?......
What if they dont see anyone who they think is "the man"......?....let it go for a year?.....just asking
because I agree they should take a swing......unfortunately they'll get lambasted for it though.....(not my problem, I get it)(just a point for the bitchers, haters and whiners to think about)...
Took a swing at Weeden, Manziel and McCoy(for example).....they probably weren't 100% sold on any of them, but had to at least try, right?......
Of course, now they are dumb asses for doing so.....
So......"for the FO haters"(not you Z)......do we pick one we "hope" can make it or do we wait till we are 100% sure about a player and also happen to have the pick to get him(fyi - that might be 30-40 years, so I hope you can wait)......and if we do take a chance, then are we dumb asses who should be fired if it doesn't pan out?......
If they don't see anyone that they think can be "the man" I'd re-sign Hoyer or a similar vet, and I'd probably still throw a draft pick at a QB in the mid-rounds to come in and challenge for the backup role.
I don't think much of Shaw as an NFL prospect, and I think Manziel has to be challenged every step of the way, and if he slips again, we should have an answer in place.
Zombo
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Zombo said:
I'm telling you this team needs to do what it can to secure a QB this offseason. You keep bringing this back to Mariotta ... I keep trying to tell you that I don't know who the guy is, but whoever the Browns think they would like to target, whether it is through the draft, trade or free agency, they should go after without hesitation and not stand pat just because they drafted a QB in the first round last year. they can't count on him for anything.
If the Browns think Mariotta is a stud, then go for him. If they want Nick Foles and think they can get him in a trade, go for it. If they want to keep Hoyer and may like a QB in the later rounds, then do that ... but just do something because we need a goddamn QB, it's almost embarrassing that fan of the Cleveland Browns doesn't recognize that.
Zombo
way to serve up that softball....
way to serve up that softball....
Yes, I realize I am sounding like this:
But the folks that don't seem to see QB as a major need are stunning me, I am trying to make it as basic as I can so I can understand whether they just don't like Marriota in particular, or if they just think we shouldn't spend resources on QB in general.
Zombo
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i think most realize that QB IS the most important move to be made in the offseason. where the opinions differ is by which means the browns obtain theirs.
resign hoyer, sign a vet, trade for a starter, move up in the draft (costing us precious draft picks) and pick another rookie etc. etc.
no one on the roster now could lead this team on a 16 game campaign in a competent manner IMO. foles would be great if we didn't have to give up much to get him. i really think they'll try and resign hoyer and if that doesn't work go after some other perennial backup/journeyman type guy to get us through another season.
it really depends on what the FO/coaching staff's plans are on how to continue to build what they started last year and either resign a bunch of guys or let them go and draft their replacements. the browns were very competitive with the team they fielded before the injury to mack, even though other teams just ran the ball down our throats. that's why most fans feel the need to draft DL and ILB as well as backup C and OL as priorities.
but who knows what farmer has up his sleeves. for all i know they move up to take white and draft hundley in the 2nd.
we all know that haslam says they won't make huge deals in FA and want to build through the draft.
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My opinion is that we live in a hero worship culture. If a team is very good in other aspects they will compete. Then add an above average quarterback and they will flourish. We take our eye off the ball when we assume that one guy is going to turn the world around. We saw that last season. The team was good enough to compete with a guy like BH at the helm. But then one chink in the armor and it all falls apart. If we don't have a plan B, no running game and we don't have a run defense it will make any third or fourth or even first round quarterback look like crap.
A great quarterback can make a good team great but he can't make a bad team good.
Trading 2 first round picks for Marcus Mariota, that nobody in the world seems to think is the next Joe Montana, means not taking two position players who, according to the Gippers list, who have a good shot at being outstanding players.
That hurt the team now and in the future and jeopardizes Maiotas chances for success.
And greatly increases the odds of another major house cleaning.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
way to serve up that softball....
Yes, I realize I am sounding like this:
But the folks that don't seem to see QB as a major need are stunning me, I am trying to make it as basic as I can so I can understand whether they just don't like Marriota in particular, or if they just think we shouldn't spend resources on QB in general.
Zombo
Zombo said:
But the folks that don't seem to see QB as a major need are stunning me, I am trying to make it as basic as I can so I can understand whether they just don't like Marriota in particular, or if they just think we shouldn't spend resources on QB in general.
I think we ALL see QB as a major need and agree we should keep looking and trying them till one sticks......
The real variance is how much we think the Browns should give up to try one......
And, this year, I dont see one that is worth so much we should forgo our other needs to get him. Why stop the development of a good team just to fill one position(albiet it an important one), when the candidates dont look very good.....
So, my view is that a lot of us want to pick a QB, or sign a QB, but we sure as hell dont want to spent 2 first rounders(or, god forbid more) for one that has all kinds of questions.....thats all....
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In terms of the QB situation I suspect that will be answered well before the draft through FA. To jump and sell the farm for one of those two is a huge risk. Build that line with depth in front of Hoyer and he will at least get us some winning seasons going. If not him then take a chance on someone else in FA or eat it this year and take the best QB next year. I still have not given up on JM. Remember he also played with Mack on the sideline and got no help from the D that game. He has taken the one step I felt was absolutely crucial to having any chance to be the NFL QB he wants to be. I'd give him a season to prove it is working (not necessarily as starter-just showing he is learning and playing well in clean up time and practice while staying sober) . If not then go for the highest guy next year who would then have a great team built around him.
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PS we were a backup center, a defensive lineman and maybe a kicker away from being a lot better than we wound up in 2014.
WSS
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PS we were a backup center, a defensive lineman and maybe a kicker away from being a lot better than we wound up in 2014.
WSS
PS we were a backup center, a defensive lineman and maybe a kicker away from being a lot better than we wound up in 2014.
WSS
you are correct sir.
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Side question: Mariota is working out with Winston now. Does that mean O'Connell is doing work with WInston as well?
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Side question: Mariota is working out with Winston now. Does that mean O'Connell is doing work with WInston as well?
Nope, it just means Irish people and Polynesians love crab legs too.Side question: Mariota is working out with Winston now. Does that mean O'Connell is doing work with WInston as well?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Zombo said:
We gotta get one.
Brady
Wilson
Rodgers
Luck
Manning
Romo
Flacco
Cam
Those were the Quarterbacks of the last eight teams standing last year.
We have Manziel and Shaw.
C'mon man.
If you don't get the Qb right, everything else goes to waste.
Zombo
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying we head in to the season with just JF and Shaw. All I am saying is it would be foolish to simply kick JF to the curb without one more good look.
It makes no sense.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying we head in to the season with just JF and Shaw. All I am saying is it would be foolish to simply kick JF to the curb without one more good look.
It makes no sense.
Of course.
everything Mik just said x100. The two dominant teams in our division built their defensive core first then went out and found a QB. If we fuck about wasting resources on finding a QB we're going to miss this small window where the North teams are restructuring. We need a defense to compete with them. A mean one. We don't have that I don't care if we bring Brady in here he won't get shit done.
The Redskins sold the ranch on RG II before the team was ready. I'ts turned out horrifically bad.
Zombo said:
Yes, I did. I said i have no idea if Mariotta is the guy. I don't know if we start beating those teams if we draft him.
I'm not a scout. I'm a fan.
I'm telling you this team needs to do what it can to secure a QB this offseason. You keep bringing this back to Mariotta ... I keep trying to tell you that I don't know who the guy is, but whoever the Browns think they would like to target, whether it is through the draft, trade or free agency, they should go after without hesitation and not stand pat just because they drafted a QB in the first round last year. they can't count on him for anything.
If the Browns think Mariotta is a stud, then go for him. If they want Nick Foles and think they can get him in a trade, go for it. If they want to keep Hoyer and may like a QB in the later rounds, then do that ... but just do something because we need a goddamn QB, it's almost embarrassing that fan of the Cleveland Browns doesn't recognize that.
Zombo
Problem is- there's no viable option to find "The Guy" this year. Foles is the only one I'm interested in- all the other options won't be worth the asking price. I'd rather stick with Hoyer than give up three first round picks to get either Winston or Mariota.
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@junkyard-dawg said:
Fucking Suckeye Homers, Braindead, I mean "12 Cauge" ain't come to be #1 overall. Noones blowing a 1st rounder on the Suckeye hero except you fanboys who overrate the fuck out of every fucking QB you ever have.
I know what I saw- & my qb prognostication is pretty good. Called it on Quinn, Harrington, Weeden, RG III. Hated the Manziel pick. True- I like the Buckeyes- but I'm not married to them. Yeah- Bosa is going to be a first round pick next year too- take it to the bank hatah.
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