Rumor: Browns interested in trading up for Mariota
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Side question: Mariota is working out with Winston now. Does that mean O'Connell is doing work with WInston as well?
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Side question: Mariota is working out with Winston now. Does that mean O'Connell is doing work with WInston as well?
Nope, it just means Irish people and Polynesians love crab legs too.Side question: Mariota is working out with Winston now. Does that mean O'Connell is doing work with WInston as well?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Zombo said:
We gotta get one.
Brady
Wilson
Rodgers
Luck
Manning
Romo
Flacco
Cam
Those were the Quarterbacks of the last eight teams standing last year.
We have Manziel and Shaw.
C'mon man.
If you don't get the Qb right, everything else goes to waste.
Zombo
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying we head in to the season with just JF and Shaw. All I am saying is it would be foolish to simply kick JF to the curb without one more good look.
It makes no sense.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying we head in to the season with just JF and Shaw. All I am saying is it would be foolish to simply kick JF to the curb without one more good look.
It makes no sense.
Of course.
everything Mik just said x100. The two dominant teams in our division built their defensive core first then went out and found a QB. If we fuck about wasting resources on finding a QB we're going to miss this small window where the North teams are restructuring. We need a defense to compete with them. A mean one. We don't have that I don't care if we bring Brady in here he won't get shit done.
The Redskins sold the ranch on RG II before the team was ready. I'ts turned out horrifically bad.
Zombo said:
Yes, I did. I said i have no idea if Mariotta is the guy. I don't know if we start beating those teams if we draft him.
I'm not a scout. I'm a fan.
I'm telling you this team needs to do what it can to secure a QB this offseason. You keep bringing this back to Mariotta ... I keep trying to tell you that I don't know who the guy is, but whoever the Browns think they would like to target, whether it is through the draft, trade or free agency, they should go after without hesitation and not stand pat just because they drafted a QB in the first round last year. they can't count on him for anything.
If the Browns think Mariotta is a stud, then go for him. If they want Nick Foles and think they can get him in a trade, go for it. If they want to keep Hoyer and may like a QB in the later rounds, then do that ... but just do something because we need a goddamn QB, it's almost embarrassing that fan of the Cleveland Browns doesn't recognize that.
Zombo
Problem is- there's no viable option to find "The Guy" this year. Foles is the only one I'm interested in- all the other options won't be worth the asking price. I'd rather stick with Hoyer than give up three first round picks to get either Winston or Mariota.
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@junkyard-dawg said:
Fucking Suckeye Homers, Braindead, I mean "12 Cauge" ain't come to be #1 overall. Noones blowing a 1st rounder on the Suckeye hero except you fanboys who overrate the fuck out of every fucking QB you ever have.
I know what I saw- & my qb prognostication is pretty good. Called it on Quinn, Harrington, Weeden, RG III. Hated the Manziel pick. True- I like the Buckeyes- but I'm not married to them. Yeah- Bosa is going to be a first round pick next year too- take it to the bank hatah.
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Don't get me wrong. I am not saying we head in to the season with just JF and Shaw. All I am saying is it would be foolish to simply kick JF to the curb without one more good look.
It makes no sense.
Of course.
everything Mik just said x100. The two dominant teams in our division built their defensive core first then went out and found a QB. If we fuck about wasting resources on finding a QB we're going to miss this small window where the North teams are restructuring. We need a defense to compete with them. A mean one. We don't have that I don't care if we bring Brady in here he won't get shit done.
The Redskins sold the ranch on RG II before the team was ready. I'ts turned out horrifically bad.
Zombo said:
Yes, I did. I said i have no idea if Mariotta is the guy. I don't know if we start beating those teams if we draft him.
I'm not a scout. I'm a fan.
I'm telling you this team needs to do what it can to secure a QB this offseason. You keep bringing this back to Mariotta ... I keep trying to tell you that I don't know who the guy is, but whoever the Browns think they would like to target, whether it is through the draft, trade or free agency, they should go after without hesitation and not stand pat just because they drafted a QB in the first round last year. they can't count on him for anything.
If the Browns think Mariotta is a stud, then go for him. If they want Nick Foles and think they can get him in a trade, go for it. If they want to keep Hoyer and may like a QB in the later rounds, then do that ... but just do something because we need a goddamn QB, it's almost embarrassing that fan of the Cleveland Browns doesn't recognize that.
Zombo
Problem is- there's no viable option to find "The Guy" this year. Foles is the only one I'm interested in- all the other options won't be worth the asking price. I'd rather stick with Hoyer than give up three first round picks to get either Winston or Mariota.
Of course.
The Redskins sold the ranch on RG II before the team was ready. I'ts turned out horrifically bad.
Problem is- there's no viable option to find "The Guy" this year. Foles is the only one I'm interested in- all the other options won't be worth the asking price. I'd rather stick with Hoyer than give up three first round picks to get either Winston or Mariota.
Well, if you look at the eight guys I listed, Wilson was a third rounder, Brady a 6th and Romo a udfa ... I didn't say we had to trade up for a first round QB, I said we had to keep looking for one. Just gotta keep trying. If it is re-signing Hoyer and drafting another guy in th emid-rounds, I'm ok with that. Even when you have a franchise QB you keep looking ... Brady was drafted when Bledsoe was considered elite and the Pats have continued to draft the likes of Cassell, Mallet and Garopolo during Brady's prime. Good QBs are coming around alomost every year, but you aren't going to find one if you ain't looking. teams with ten draft picks tons of cap space and three starts on their roster need to be looking.
Zombo
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My opinion is that we live in a hero worship culture. If a team is very good in other aspects they will compete. Then add an above average quarterback and they will flourish. We take our eye off the ball when we assume that one guy is going to turn the world around. We saw that last season. The team was good enough to compete with a guy like BH at the helm. But then one chink in the armor and it all falls apart. If we don't have a plan B, no running game and we don't have a run defense it will make any third or fourth or even first round quarterback look like crap.
A great quarterback can make a good team great but he can't make a bad team good.
Trading 2 first round picks for Marcus Mariota, that nobody in the world seems to think is the next Joe Montana, means not taking two position players who, according to the Gippers list, who have a good shot at being outstanding players.
That hurt the team now and in the future and jeopardizes Maiotas chances for success.
And greatly increases the odds of another major house cleaning.
WSS
My opinion is that we live in a hero worship culture. If a team is very good in other aspects they will compete. Then add an above average quarterback and they will flourish. We take our eye off the ball when we assume that one guy is going to turn the world around. We saw that last season. The team was good enough to compete with a guy like BH at the helm. But then one chink in the armor and it all falls apart. If we don't have a plan B, no running game and we don't have a run defense it will make any third or fourth or even first round quarterback look like crap.
A great quarterback can make a good team great but he can't make a bad team good.
Trading 2 first round picks for Marcus Mariota, that nobody in the world seems to think is the next Joe Montana, means not taking two position players who, according to the Gippers list, who have a good shot at being outstanding players.
That hurt the team now and in the future and jeopardizes Maiotas chances for success.
And greatly increases the odds of another major house cleaning.
WSS
We need a Kevin Bacon.
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@junkyard-dawg said:
Fucking Suckeye Homers, Braindead, I mean "12 Cauge" ain't come to be #1 overall. Noones blowing a 1st rounder on the Suckeye hero except you fanboys who overrate the fuck out of every fucking QB you ever have.
Why is this dingleberry still clinging on to the ass of the browns board?
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Nope, it just means Irish people and Polynesians love crab legs too.Side question: Mariota is working out with Winston now. Does that mean O'Connell is doing work with WInston as well?
WSS
Nope, it just means Irish people and Polynesians love crab legs too.
WSS
WINNAH!!!!!!
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Zombo said:
Yes, I did. I said i have no idea if Mariotta is the guy. I don't know if we start beating those teams if we draft him.
I'm not a scout. I'm a fan.
I'm telling you this team needs to do what it can to secure a QB this offseason. You keep bringing this back to Mariotta ... I keep trying to tell you that I don't know who the guy is, but whoever the Browns think they would like to target, whether it is through the draft, trade or free agency, they should go after without hesitation and not stand pat just because they drafted a QB in the first round last year. they can't count on him for anything.
If the Browns think Mariotta is a stud, then go for him. If they want Nick Foles and think they can get him in a trade, go for it. If they want to keep Hoyer and may like a QB in the later rounds, then do that ... but just do something because we need a goddamn QB, it's almost embarrassing that fan of the Cleveland Browns doesn't recognize that.
Zombo
What if they dont see anyone who they think is "the man"......?....let it go for a year?.....just asking
because I agree they should take a swing......unfortunately they'll get lambasted for it though.....(not my problem, I get it)(just a point for the bitchers, haters and whiners to think about)...
Took a swing at Weeden, Manziel and McCoy(for example).....they probably weren't 100% sold on any of them, but had to at least try, right?......
Of course, now they are dumb asses for doing so.....
So......"for the FO haters"(not you Z)......do we pick one we "hope" can make it or do we wait till we are 100% sure about a player and also happen to have the pick to get him(fyi - that might be 30-40 years, so I hope you can wait)......and if we do take a chance, then are we dumb asses who should be fired if it doesn't pan out?......
What if they dont see anyone who they think is "the man"......?....let it go for a year?.....just asking
because I agree they should take a swing......unfortunately they'll get lambasted for it though.....(not my problem, I get it)(just a point for the bitchers, haters and whiners to think about)...
Took a swing at Weeden, Manziel and McCoy(for example).....they probably weren't 100% sold on any of them, but had to at least try, right?......
Of course, now they are dumb asses for doing so.....
So......"for the FO haters"(not you Z)......do we pick one we "hope" can make it or do we wait till we are 100% sure about a player and also happen to have the pick to get him(fyi - that might be 30-40 years, so I hope you can wait)......and if we do take a chance, then are we dumb asses who should be fired if it doesn't pan out?......
Was McCoy really a swing? He was the winningest college quarterback and he was taken in the 3rd round. I don't think that was a swing and a miss as much as it was a value pick.
Actually, the only "mortgage it all, swing and a miss" quarterback pick I can really recall Cleveland making was Tim Couch.
The Browns have take exactly one quarterback with their first pick in the draft in the last 44 years - Tim Couch.
Quinn, Weeden, Manziel...value picks. Bad picks? Sure. But value-based nonetheless. The Browns haven't mortgaged their future and moved up to take the top rated QB once in the modern era.
For those of you saying we've been burnt before...learn the difference between moving up to #22 to take a questionable pick and moving up to #1 to take the top-ranked guy.
I'm not saying this necessarily applies to this situation, but the sheer lack of knowledge by some of these people is frustrating.
I'm also not referring to you, Mud...just using this reply as a platform to voice my displeasure over some of these fucking clueless idiots who come out of the woodwork and start blasting Zombo just because they heard Skip Bayless compare Manziel to Mariota or some stupid shit like that.
The Browns have tried to shop for value and gotten fucked numerous times. Stop being pussies and trying to backdoor your way into the playoffs. Get a quarterback who can compete. You don't plan for a Wilson or a Brady.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Even IF that strategy is correct - and I don't think it is: Washington is fucked for 5 years because they did exactly what you promote -
MARIOTA SUCKS.
The unproven assertion within every post on this thread is that Mariota is some kind of Brady, Luck, or Wilson - and frankly he is not. Mariota wouldn't beat Manziel in a battle this offseason. He simply is not accurate.
But keep ignoring reality because your agenda is "Fuck everything, throw the entire draft away to own a replacement-level QB!"
That is RISKY. And the only way it's worthwhile is twofold: One, does the reward match the actual risk.. and two, is the % chance that the reward will pay off greater than 50%?
Frankly, the chance that Mariota is a savior is 5% AT BEST.
The risk is that the D departures mean the D sucks even more in 2015 than 2014, the QB depth chart includes 2 guys who would lose to Billy Volek, the OL still has to start Turnstile Schwartz, we still have no WR, and we have only blocking TE's.
That's the future if the Browns employ your strategy. And the ONLY defense of that move is the unproven assertion that Mariota equals savior. You have ZERO PROOF that will actually materialize... just bizarre platitudes about "taking a shot."
How many super bowls did Ricky Williams win the Saints? How did that Herschel Walker trade work out for Minnesota? How's RG3 doing?
Show the number of times the Steelers have mortgaged their future for one player.
Show the number of times the Ravens have mortgaged their future for one player.
Why do you think the consistently great teams DO NOT do this?
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
couch is the perfect example of how not to build a team.
put him on a good team coming out of college (good OL, running game, WRs and defense) and i'm sure we wouldn't think of him the same way.
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Even IF that strategy is correct - and I don't think it is: Washington is fucked for 5 years because they did exactly what you promote -
MARIOTA SUCKS.
The unproven assertion within every post on this thread is that Mariota is some kind of Brady, Luck, or Wilson - and frankly he is not. Mariota wouldn't beat Manziel in a battle this offseason. He simply is not accurate.
But keep ignoring reality because your agenda is "Fuck everything, throw the entire draft away to own a replacement-level QB!"
That is RISKY. And the only way it's worthwhile is twofold: One, does the reward match the actual risk.. and two, is the % chance that the reward will pay off greater than 50%?
Frankly, the chance that Mariota is a savior is 5% AT BEST.
The risk is that the D departures mean the D sucks even more in 2015 than 2014, the QB depth chart includes 2 guys who would lose to Billy Volek, the OL still has to start Turnstile Schwartz, we still have no WR, and we have only blocking TE's.
That's the future if the Browns employ your strategy. And the ONLY defense of that move is the unproven assertion that Mariota equals savior. You have ZERO PROOF that will actually materialize... just bizarre platitudes about "taking a shot."
How many super bowls did Ricky Williams win the Saints? How did that Herschel Walker trade work out for Minnesota? How's RG3 doing?
Show the number of times the Steelers have mortgaged their future for one player.
Show the number of times the Ravens have mortgaged their future for one player.
Why do you think the consistently great teams DO NOT do this?
Well...I'm for Winston. But don't let facts get in the way of your well-reasoned argument.Even IF that strategy is correct - and I don't think it is: Washington is fucked for 5 years because they did exactly what you promote -
MARIOTA SUCKS.
The unproven assertion within every post on this thread is that Mariota is some kind of Brady, Luck, or Wilson - and frankly he is not. Mariota wouldn't beat Manziel in a battle this offseason. He simply is not accurate.
But keep ignoring reality because your agenda is "Fuck everything, throw the entire draft away to own a replacement-level QB!"
That is RISKY. And the only way it's worthwhile is twofold: One, does the reward match the actual risk.. and two, is the % chance that the reward will pay off greater than 50%?
Frankly, the chance that Mariota is a savior is 5% AT BEST.
The risk is that the D departures mean the D sucks even more in 2015 than 2014, the QB depth chart includes 2 guys who would lose to Billy Volek, the OL still has to start Turnstile Schwartz, we still have no WR, and we have only blocking TE's.
That's the future if the Browns employ your strategy. And the ONLY defense of that move is the unproven assertion that Mariota equals savior. You have ZERO PROOF that will actually materialize... just bizarre platitudes about "taking a shot."
How many super bowls did Ricky Williams win the Saints? How did that Herschel Walker trade work out for Minnesota? How's RG3 doing?
Show the number of times the Steelers have mortgaged their future for one player.
Show the number of times the Ravens have mortgaged their future for one player.
Why do you think the consistently great teams DO NOT do this?
The point isn't mortgaging your future, it's doing what you can to take the guy you have rated as the best rather than waiting for a second-level someone to fall and then trading up to get them.
Consistently great teams don't draft quarterbacks at #1 because they are consistently not picking at #1...because consistently great teams have the luxury of waiting and scouting QB's over a period while their current QB continues to win games. Then they can take the guy they have at the top of their board rather than take shots in the dark on random guys just because the "value" is there.
Cleveland admitted that Manziel wasn't on top of their board. Weeden obviously wasn't the top of their board, seeing as Luck and RG3 were in that same draft. So why take them? And, more importantly...why move up?
If the guy isn't at the top of your list, don't waste the pick on him. If he is at the top of your list, do whatever it takes to get him. If he's ungettable, then don't take a shot in the dark on another QB just because.
We can't all "luck" into a terrible year right after we lose a HOFer, only to get the #1 pick the same year there's a future HOFer available.
The Steelers didn't have to mortgage their future for Bradshaw because they were garbage and got him first overall - he then led them to four Super Bowls. They didn't have to mortgage their future for Roethlisberger because he was available at 11, and they had him rated higher than Rivers and almost even with Manning (according to some articles, which I'm not sure I entirely believe).
The Ravens didn't have to mortgage their future for Flacco because he, too, was available in the middle of the first due to the same reason as Roehtlisberger.
The Ravens brass liked Flacco more than Ryan, even though Ravens owner Steve Biscotti said "I told them there is nothing worse for an owner or for them to be managing a business without a franchise quarterback. I don't care what we have to pay for him to trade up. We're getting Matt Ryan."
So...you're right. They didn't have to mortgage their future. They just had their top rated guy fall into their lap in the middle of the first.
How many snaps did Ricky Williams play at QB? How about Herschel Walker? I fail to see the comparison. What's happening to RG3 is the same thing that happened to Couch. Mismanagement, poor coaching and terrible offensive line play are pushing him out of the door. He won't last another 4 years if they keep playing him his way.
I hope that my lack of all caps doesn't take away from my point.
You take your highest rated guy no matter what. If you have to mortgage your future, sack up and do it. Stop trying to value your way into a franchise QB.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
hopefully our FO doesn't have either one of these guys #1 on the board, let alone that position as the #1 need.
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I have to stop you right there, Tim. Didn't the front office admit to having Manziel as their #1 QB on their board?
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I have to stop you right there, Tim. Didn't the front office admit to having Manziel as their #1 QB on their board?
As their #1 QB, but not their #1 guy.I have to stop you right there, Tim. Didn't the front office admit to having Manziel as their #1 QB on their board?
For a team devoid of a QB, you have to place your emphasis on that position. If there's not a guy at that position rated as your #1 overall priority, then he's not your franchise guy. If he's the guy you think can turn your franchise around, you don't pass on him at #4, then again at #8.
And, the point I was trying to make, you certainly don't trade back up to get him at #22.
However, if there is a guy like that, you do literally anything and everything to get him. Holmgren offered our entire draft to get Luck. They said no. I would have offered two whole drafts. I would have gladly forsaken Richardson, Weeden, Schwartz, Mingo, Winn, Benjamin and all of the rest for Luck.
Manziel wasn't the guy they took with the belief he could turn around the franchise. He was the guy they took because of the value and the hope that he could.
The Browns havent taken a quarterback to be the absolute, irrevocable, undeniable franchise guy since Couch. Not once. They've taken guys based on value and hope, which is what you don't do. You don't plan on having a Rodgers fall to you. You don't plan on finding a Wilson. You don't plan on finding a Brady.
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As their #1 QB, but not their #1 guy.I have to stop you right there, Tim. Didn't the front office admit to having Manziel as their #1 QB on their board?
For a team devoid of a QB, you have to place your emphasis on that position. If there's not a guy at that position rated as your #1 overall priority, then he's not your franchise guy. If he's the guy you think can turn your franchise around, you don't pass on him at #4, then again at #8.
And, the point I was trying to make, you certainly don't trade back up to get him at #22.
However, if there is a guy like that, you do literally anything and everything to get him. Holmgren offered our entire draft to get Luck. They said no. I would have offered two whole drafts. I would have gladly forsaken Richardson, Weeden, Schwartz, Mingo, Winn, Benjamin and all of the rest for Luck.
Manziel wasn't the guy they took with the belief he could turn around the franchise. He was the guy they took because of the value and the hope that he could.
The Browns havent taken a quarterback to be the absolute, irrevocable, undeniable franchise guy since Couch. Not once. They've taken guys based on value and hope, which is what you don't do. You don't plan on having a Rodgers fall to you. You don't plan on finding a Wilson. You don't plan on finding a Brady.
Manziel wasn't the guy they took with the belief he could turn around the franchise. He was the guy they took because of the value and the hope that he could.
Then the Browns should have learned their lesson with Quinn - don't take that kind of player in the 1st with that kind of mentality.
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Well I don't quite understand your plan of action Tim. First you want the Browns to mortgage the future for the guy and then throw up your hands and state that you can't plan for a Brady. What is it you'd like to do? If you take Mariota by trading most of your draft for him does it make him better? What if he slips to 22?
Is he a bum now? Or do you even want Mariota? If not, Who? Is Winston the franchise?
Someone in the third? The 6th? Undrafted?
WSS
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I posted a thread a while back on how the Manziel pick really put us behind the 8 ball. It put us in a bad position where now some real difficult choices are having to be made. We have tried to get bargain quarterbacks many times before only to find out why we got them at a sale price and other teams passed on them. Tim is right in that the odds are you going to have to sacrifice to get an elite quarterback. But is this the year for that for the Browns? Nobody has a crystal ball and I don't see a right or wrong answer (at this time, hindsight is 20/20)
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Then who do you want and what will you sacrifice? If, in fact, sacrifice is the key.
WSS
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The safe bet for me is to resign Hoyer and try to get the Browns some more pieces to the puzzle on offense and defense. On defense this team will be very good once they stop the run to go along with their outstanding secondary. On offense we badly need a good wide receiver and some more depth on the o line would be good. And then always keep an eye out when the right quarterback presents itself. If we have to sacrifice I would rather do it when we don't have so many other holes to fill.
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