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  • The point is I'm trying to make is...who cares what YOU think. You think Houston is bland and boring and undesirable. Cool, but it doesn't change that a majority of people disagree and that's why Houston is the fastest growing city in America. So it clearly is desirable. I'm sure there's a person out there who believes that East Cowshit County, Alabama is the best place to live in the entire galaxy. Is that a truth for him? Sure. But it doesn't make it true for the population.

    Anyone can make a list, you're right. Anyone can do anything. However, the majority of people place more faith in things done or created by experts and professionals than the things done or created by Joe Blow from Kalamazoo. That's why billions of people watch the NFL yet nobody gives a shit about that pickup football game in the park- it's a matter of professionals over amateurs.

    If you desire a city that pales in comparison to Houston in basically every livability metric imaginable, then yes...I guess Cleveland is the more desirable city. However, in terms of crime, job rate, housing, culture and essentially every single metric used by market economists, Cleveland doesn't hold a candle to Houston.

    I'm the self-appointed defender of logic. When I see things that are illogical, I argue the counterpoint. Unless, of course, I'm the one posing the illogical statements....like my stupid trades or my overhyping of practice squad players like James Davis, Carlton Mitchell and Charles Johnson.

    Yes, I live in Charlotte...and that's why I can have an unbiased opinion on this matter. Because neither city compares to Charlotte...who is expected to be the fastest growing city in the world over the next 15 years (according to the United Nations World Urbanization Report).

  • @wargograw said:

    I wouldn't necessarily look to the rejection of liberal pipe dreams like light rail as a knock on a city's establishment as "big."

    Then you can fucking walk to work.

    @the-gipper said:

    Then you can fucking walk to work.

    Or I can take my own car, like a normal non-welfare individual. The fact that you think those two were the only options makes me question all your opinions on this thread.

    Austin is a liberal haven and even we don't have full light rail.

  • @diehardbrownsfan said:

    Austin is supposed to be a nice place to retire. I've been thinking about Corpus Christi in year or two.

    Austin's traffic is now terrible. Worse than San Antonio. Austin has really grown too quickly for its breeches.

    Twenty years ago it was a super cool...mid size college town. Now it too is becoming a mess. Probably not as bad as Houston. The area around Austin is much more interesting. Houston is basically a flat swamp.

    @the-gipper said:

    Austin's traffic is now terrible. Worse than San Antonio. Austin has really grown too quickly for its breeches.

    Twenty years ago it was a super cool...mid size college town. Now it too is becoming a mess. Probably not as bad as Houston. The area around Austin is much more interesting. Houston is basically a flat swamp.

    Houston has traffic but it will move 60+ even during rush hour. Everything flows. Austin traffic is that open the door and see gum clearly on a major highway kinda traffic. It's bad.

    Also, Austin is the most "desirable" city in Texas. But for my money, it's the most overrated city I can think of. Dallas is the coolest city in Texas (outside of College Station of course). NO ONE without Mexican background likes San Antonio. Not more than Houston. Not more than Dallas. Certainly not more than Austin. San Antonio blows.

    And yes austin did grow too quickly. The dumbass city administrators basically believed "if we don't build it, they won't come." Been a complete failure so far.

  • The point is I'm trying to make is...who cares what YOU think. You think Houston is bland and boring and undesirable. Cool, but it doesn't change that a majority of people disagree and that's why Houston is the fastest growing city in America. So it clearly is desirable. I'm sure there's a person out there who believes that East Cowshit County, Alabama is the best place to live in the entire galaxy. Is that a truth for him? Sure. But it doesn't make it true for the population.

    Anyone can make a list, you're right. Anyone can do anything. However, the majority of people place more faith in things done or created by experts and professionals than the things done or created by Joe Blow from Kalamazoo. That's why billions of people watch the NFL yet nobody gives a shit about that pickup football game in the park- it's a matter of professionals over amateurs.

    If you desire a city that pales in comparison to Houston in basically every livability metric imaginable, then yes...I guess Cleveland is the more desirable city. However, in terms of crime, job rate, housing, culture and essentially every single metric used by market economists, Cleveland doesn't hold a candle to Houston.

    I'm the self-appointed defender of logic. When I see things that are illogical, I argue the counterpoint. Unless, of course, I'm the one posing the illogical statements....like my stupid trades or my overhyping of practice squad players like James Davis, Carlton Mitchell and Charles Johnson.

    Yes, I live in Charlotte...and that's why I can have an unbiased opinion on this matter. Because neither city compares to Charlotte...who is expected to be the fastest growing city in the world over the next 15 years (according to the United Nations World Urbanization Report).

    @tim-couch-pulls-out said:

    The point is I'm trying to make is...who cares what YOU think.

    More people than care what you think...because I do the travel thing as an avocation.

    You think Houston is bland and boring and undesirable. Cool, but it doesn't change that a majority of people disagree and that's why Houston is the fastest growing city in America. So it clearly is desirable. I'm sure there's a person out there who believes that East Cowshit County, Alabama is the best place to live in the entire galaxy. Is that a truth for him? Sure. But it doesn't make it true for the population.

    Money is what makes Houston "desirable". If you call working in the refineries and living in a mobile home desirable.

    That does not put it at the top of many 'best travel destinations" list.

    Anyone can make a list, you're right. Anyone can do anything. However, the majority of people place more faith in things done or created by experts and professionals than the things done or created by Joe Blow from Kalamazoo.

    Well, as I said....I AM an Expert.

    That's why billions of people watch the NFL yet nobody gives a shit about that pickup football game in the park- it's a matter of professionals over amateurs.

    If you desire a city that pales in comparison to Houston in basically every livability metric imaginable, then yes...I guess Cleveland is the more desirable city. However, in terms of crime, job rate, housing, culture and essentially every single metric used by market economists, Cleveland doesn't hold a candle to Houston.

    I would have to analyze that one.

    The last one of those I did analyze said that San Diego was more livable than Cleveland...and it gave some of the same factors you note: crime, unemployment, congestion, cost of living, even success of sports teams. In 11 categories, Cleveland came out better.....the only one San Diego was better than Cleveland? Winter weather......and because of that it gave SD the overall edge. (their conclusions totally ignored their own findings on those things.) So, I don't know about Houston and how it would compare. You would need to show that data....as from experience I have to be skeptical

    I'm the self-appointed defender of logic. When I see things that are illogical, I argue the counterpoint. Unless, of course, I'm the one posing the illogical statements....like my stupid trades or my overhyping of practice squad players like James Davis, Carlton Mitchell and Charles Johnson.

    Well, I don't think I ever said that I applied logic to this Houston thing. I was not really applying living standard metrics. I was simply saying that from my observations and experience Houston had little to attract me as a travel destination. It seemed to have new tall buildings....but nothing that stood out architecturally. I am sure that it has the museums/orchestras/zoos/botanical gardens etc.that all big cities have.

    The one thing I did get to was the San Jacinto Battle Monument. Of course, being Texas, they felt compelled to build it a few feet taller than the Washington Monument (575 vs. 555 ft.).

    A couple of things I did not get to that I may have liked to see were the NASA Space Center and the Astrodome.

    But, overall, it rates low on my list of interesting cities. The likes of San Diego/San Fran/Seattle/Portland/Denver/SA/Boston/Phlly/NYC/Chicago/Miami...and many others (even Charlotte) come out ahead on my list than Houston does.

    Yes, I live in Charlotte...and that's why I can have an unbiased opinion on this matter. Because neither city compares to Charlotte...who is expected to be the fastest growing city in the world over the next 15 years (according to the United Nations World Urbanization Report).

    Things change. They said similar things about Cleveland in 1965. But, sure, Charlotte is OK.

  • @the-gipper said:

    Then you can fucking walk to work.

    Or I can take my own car, like a normal non-welfare individual. The fact that you think those two were the only options makes me question all your opinions on this thread.

    Austin is a liberal haven and even we don't have full light rail.

    @wargograw said:

    Or I can take my own car, like a normal non-welfare individual. The fact that you think those two were the only options makes me question all your opinions on this thread.

    Austin is a liberal haven and even we don't have full light rail.

    WTF does "liberal" or conservative have to do with it. Are you some right wing paranoid-schizophrenic that sees "liberals" jumping out at you from every bush telling you to give them your money?

    Jesus, get help.....maybe even from Jesus.

  • That can't be a serious question. Liberals get off to light rail. Conservatives rightly view ownership of the car as one of the most American things you can do. They view light rail as a general massive waste of money. It's pretty simple.

    "WTF does liberal or conservative have to do with it." Lol

  • @the-gipper said:

    Austin's traffic is now terrible. Worse than San Antonio. Austin has really grown too quickly for its breeches.

    Twenty years ago it was a super cool...mid size college town. Now it too is becoming a mess. Probably not as bad as Houston. The area around Austin is much more interesting. Houston is basically a flat swamp.

    Houston has traffic but it will move 60+ even during rush hour. Everything flows. Austin traffic is that open the door and see gum clearly on a major highway kinda traffic. It's bad.

    Also, Austin is the most "desirable" city in Texas. But for my money, it's the most overrated city I can think of. Dallas is the coolest city in Texas (outside of College Station of course). NO ONE without Mexican background likes San Antonio. Not more than Houston. Not more than Dallas. Certainly not more than Austin. San Antonio blows.

    And yes austin did grow too quickly. The dumbass city administrators basically believed "if we don't build it, they won't come." Been a complete failure so far.

    @wargograw said:

    Houston has traffic but it will move 60+ even during rush hour. Everything flows. Austin traffic is that open the door and see gum clearly on a major highway kinda traffic. It's bad.

    Also, Austin is the most "desirable" city in Texas. But for my money, it's the most overrated city I can think of. Dallas is the coolest city in Texas (outside of College Station of course). NO ONE without Mexican background likes San Antonio. Not more than Houston. Not more than Dallas. Certainly not more than Austin. San Antonio blows.

    Well, I don't believe that....my family doesn't believe that, and none of us have Mexican backgrounds. We are White GaelicSaxon Lapsed Catholic Lutherans. But, I will tell you the truth...though my daughter may want to settle there, I do not want to retire there....even though my wife may want that.

    And yes austin did grow too quickly. The dumbass city administrators basically believed "if we don't build it, they won't come." Been a complete failure so far.

    I-35 is awful...but when you get into the circular bypasses the traffic seems to flow OK.

  • You guys are the exception. No one likes SA. Hell, even Charles Barkley made fun of SA women.

  • LOL. Bottom line is live where you want to live. Who cares what someone else thinks. Its you who will have to live there.

  • and some people don't like dust and sand 12 months a year or god forbid when there happens to be inclement weather (like snow) maybe it'd be nice if people knew how to 'drive' to work without causing a 24 car pile up.

    houston yeah it must be great to drive to work there. watch out for the armadillos and the illegals.

  • That can't be a serious question. Liberals get off to light rail. Conservatives rightly view ownership of the car as one of the most American things you can do. They view light rail as a general massive waste of money. It's pretty simple.

    "WTF does liberal or conservative have to do with it." Lol

    @wargograw said:

    That can't be a serious question. Liberals get off to light rail. Conservatives rightly view ownership of the car as one of the most American things you can do. They view light rail as a general massive waste of money. It's pretty simple.

    "WTF does liberal or conservative have to do with it." Lol

    Many, most people do NOT want to put up with traffic and to pay exorbitant parking rates in cities like Boston, NY, Philly, DC, Toronto, Chicago, San Fran, and other places.

    You can take your car to work in those towns.....and pay the consequences. It is a lot less hassle..and much less expensive to take the rail. I didn't know that "conservatives" like throwing their money away and being stressed out.

    I took the light rail to work/school every day when I lived in Cleveland. It sure was convenient and inexpensive compared to taking the car.

  • Well the amount of ignorance in that post discredited any legitimate posts you had to make. Armadillos in the road in Houston. Sure buddy. Now I can't argue with the illegals comment.

    You guys have blackouts and cancel school when the temp hits 100. So give me a break on driving in snow.

    But we don't have 8 million people. Not even close. So that's a pretty irrelevant example. Thanks for trying anyway. E for effort.

  • You guys are the exception. No one likes SA. Hell, even Charles Barkley made fun of SA women.

    @wargograw said:

    You guys are the exception. No one likes SA. Hell, even Charles Barkley made fun of SA women.

    OK, let me qualify.....I have liked visiting SA....better than I like visiting Houston or Dallas or El Paso.

    If there is something about living there that sucks so bad, that is not within my experience.

    And my daughter is now an SA woman....so you and Charles Barkley better watch what the fuck you say. 😛

  • @wargograw said:

    That can't be a serious question. Liberals get off to light rail. Conservatives rightly view ownership of the car as one of the most American things you can do. They view light rail as a general massive waste of money. It's pretty simple.

    "WTF does liberal or conservative have to do with it." Lol

    Many, most people do NOT want to put up with traffic and to pay exorbitant parking rates in cities like Boston, NY, Philly, DC, Toronto, Chicago, San Fran, and other places.

    You can take your car to work in those towns.....and pay the consequences. It is a lot less hassle..and much less expensive to take the rail. I didn't know that "conservatives" like throwing their money away and being stressed out.

    I took the light rail to work/school every day when I lived in Cleveland. It sure was convenient and inexpensive compared to taking the car.

    @the-gipper said:

    Many, most people do NOT want to put up with traffic and to pay exorbitant parking rates in cities like Boston, NY, Philly, DC, Toronto, Chicago, San Fran, and other places.

    You can take your car to work in those towns.....and pay the consequences. It is a lot less hassle..and much less expensive to take the rail. I didn't know that "conservatives" like throwing their money away and being stressed out.

    I took the light rail to work/school every day when I lived in Cleveland. It sure was convenient and inexpensive compared to taking the car.

    It's an embarrassment to take the bus down here. Just the way it is. And, like I said, Houston has good traffic flow (so does Dallas) so I doubt it's a move they care to make any time soon.

  • Well the amount of ignorance in that post discredited any legitimate posts you had to make. Armadillos in the road in Houston. Sure buddy. Now I can't argue with the illegals comment.

    You guys have blackouts and cancel school when the temp hits 100. So give me a break on driving in snow.

    But we don't have 8 million people. Not even close. So that's a pretty irrelevant example. Thanks for trying anyway. E for effort.

    @wargograw said:

    Well the amount of ignorance in that post discredited any legitimate posts you had to make. Armadillos in the road in Houston. Sure buddy. Now I can't argue with the illegals comment.

    You guys have blackouts and cancel school when the temp hits 100. So give me a break on driving in snow.

    But we don't have 8 million people. Not even close. So that's a pretty irrelevant example. Thanks for trying anyway. E for effort.

    You need to quote which post you are replying to....so that the rest of us can follow along.

    But from my source, the Houston Metro area has 6.375 million.

  • That was to miktoxic.

  • That can't be a serious question. Liberals get off to light rail. Conservatives rightly view ownership of the car as one of the most American things you can do. They view light rail as a general massive waste of money. It's pretty simple.

    "WTF does liberal or conservative have to do with it." Lol

    @wargograw said:

    That can't be a serious question. Liberals get off to light rail. Conservatives rightly view ownership of the car as one of the most American things you can do. They view light rail as a general massive waste of money. It's pretty simple.

    "WTF does liberal or conservative have to do with it." Lol

    And they're also stupid. So that makes sense.

    @the-gipper said:

    @tim-couch-pulls-out said:

    The point is I'm trying to make is...who cares what YOU think.

    More people than care what you think...because I do the travel thing as an avocation.

    You think Houston is bland and boring and undesirable. Cool, but it doesn't change that a majority of people disagree and that's why Houston is the fastest growing city in America. So it clearly is desirable. I'm sure there's a person out there who believes that East Cowshit County, Alabama is the best place to live in the entire galaxy. Is that a truth for him? Sure. But it doesn't make it true for the population.

    Money is what makes Houston "desirable". If you call working in the refineries and living in a mobile home desirable.

    That does not put it at the top of many 'best travel destinations" list.

    Anyone can make a list, you're right. Anyone can do anything. However, the majority of people place more faith in things done or created by experts and professionals than the things done or created by Joe Blow from Kalamazoo.

    Well, as I said....I AM an Expert.

    That's why billions of people watch the NFL yet nobody gives a shit about that pickup football game in the park- it's a matter of professionals over amateurs.

    If you desire a city that pales in comparison to Houston in basically every livability metric imaginable, then yes...I guess Cleveland is the more desirable city. However, in terms of crime, job rate, housing, culture and essentially every single metric used by market economists, Cleveland doesn't hold a candle to Houston.

    I would have to analyze that one.

    The last one of those I did analyze said that San Diego was more livable than Cleveland...and it gave some of the same factors you note: crime, unemployment, congestion, cost of living, even success of sports teams. In 11 categories, Cleveland came out better.....the only one San Diego was better than Cleveland? Winter weather......and because of that it gave SD the overall edge. (their conclusions totally ignored their own findings on those things.) So, I don't know about Houston and how it would compare. You would need to show that data....as from experience I have to be skeptical

    I'm the self-appointed defender of logic. When I see things that are illogical, I argue the counterpoint. Unless, of course, I'm the one posing the illogical statements....like my stupid trades or my overhyping of practice squad players like James Davis, Carlton Mitchell and Charles Johnson.

    Well, I don't think I ever said that I applied logic to this Houston thing. I was not really applying living standard metrics. I was simply saying that from my observations and experience Houston had little to attract me as a travel destination. It seemed to have new tall buildings....but nothing that stood out architecturally. I am sure that it has the museums/orchestras/zoos/botanical gardens etc.that all big cities have.

    The one thing I did get to was the San Jacinto Battle Monument. Of course, being Texas, they felt compelled to build it a few feet taller than the Washington Monument (575 vs. 555 ft.).

    A couple of things I did not get to that I may have liked to see were the NASA Space Center and the Astrodome.

    But, overall, it rates low on my list of interesting cities. The likes of San Diego/San Fran/Seattle/Portland/Denver/SA/Boston/Phlly/NYC/Chicago/Miami...and many others (even Charlotte) come out ahead on my list than Houston does.

    Yes, I live in Charlotte...and that's why I can have an unbiased opinion on this matter. Because neither city compares to Charlotte...who is expected to be the fastest growing city in the world over the next 15 years (according to the United Nations World Urbanization Report).

    Things change. They said similar things about Cleveland in 1965. But, sure, Charlotte is OK.

    Sure, if that makes you happy at night...more people care about what you think than what I think. Have a field day with it, buddy.

    I'd love to see some stats backing up your mobile home/refineries claim. Is it because Houston is number one in energy and also in the South? Okay, that's a relatively easy gap to bridge...except you're not factoring in the fact they have the most college graduates, the highest average salary, and the second most Fortune 500 companies (behind NYC). I doubt there are very many college graduates who work for Fortune 500 companies and make, on average, $75k a year that live in mobile homes.

    A self-proclaimed expert doesn't make you an actual expert. Vacationing in cities doesn't make you an expert. Being an economist, studying varying real estate market trends, and livability indices makes you an expert.

    You claim to be "applying living standard metrics" yet you can't refute the claim that Houston overwhelmingly outranks Cleveland in every single livability metric. So, which is it?

    Houston isn't interesting to you. It's dull, it's bland. It doesn't compare to any city you've visited. That's all well and good. It's still overwhelmingly favored by the masses and a much more widely loved city than Cleveland.

    Now, I'm done with this...unless you can provide real, quantifiable statistics to refute anything I've said.

  • @the-gipper said:

    Many, most people do NOT want to put up with traffic and to pay exorbitant parking rates in cities like Boston, NY, Philly, DC, Toronto, Chicago, San Fran, and other places.

    You can take your car to work in those towns.....and pay the consequences. It is a lot less hassle..and much less expensive to take the rail. I didn't know that "conservatives" like throwing their money away and being stressed out.

    I took the light rail to work/school every day when I lived in Cleveland. It sure was convenient and inexpensive compared to taking the car.

    It's an embarrassment to take the bus down here. Just the way it is. And, like I said, Houston has good traffic flow (so does Dallas) so I doubt it's a move they care to make any time soon.

    @wargograw said:

    It's an embarrassment to take the bus down here. Just the way it is. And, like I said, Houston has good traffic flow (so does Dallas) so I doubt it's a move they care to make any time soon.

    I went through Houston a while back. It was not rush hour but the laneage was odd and peculiar. It was like, if you drive on the left 2-3 lanes, it was a toll road, but if you were in the right 2-3 lanes it was not. It was just weird and confusing for someone going through there for the first time.

    But, if the bus were the cheapest easiest option....I don't know why you would be embarassed. Whattsamatta you? You think if you take the bus someone might think you are a liberal....or worse yet, a wetback?

  • That was to miktoxic.

    @wargograw said:

    That was to miktoxic.

    Then use the quote button. Or do you think using the quote button is the cyberspace equivalent of taking the bus? 😉

  • @wargograw said:

    That can't be a serious question. Liberals get off to light rail. Conservatives rightly view ownership of the car as one of the most American things you can do. They view light rail as a general massive waste of money. It's pretty simple.

    "WTF does liberal or conservative have to do with it." Lol

    And they're also stupid. So that makes sense.

    @the-gipper said:

    @tim-couch-pulls-out said:

    The point is I'm trying to make is...who cares what YOU think.

    More people than care what you think...because I do the travel thing as an avocation.

    You think Houston is bland and boring and undesirable. Cool, but it doesn't change that a majority of people disagree and that's why Houston is the fastest growing city in America. So it clearly is desirable. I'm sure there's a person out there who believes that East Cowshit County, Alabama is the best place to live in the entire galaxy. Is that a truth for him? Sure. But it doesn't make it true for the population.

    Money is what makes Houston "desirable". If you call working in the refineries and living in a mobile home desirable.

    That does not put it at the top of many 'best travel destinations" list.

    Anyone can make a list, you're right. Anyone can do anything. However, the majority of people place more faith in things done or created by experts and professionals than the things done or created by Joe Blow from Kalamazoo.

    Well, as I said....I AM an Expert.

    That's why billions of people watch the NFL yet nobody gives a shit about that pickup football game in the park- it's a matter of professionals over amateurs.

    If you desire a city that pales in comparison to Houston in basically every livability metric imaginable, then yes...I guess Cleveland is the more desirable city. However, in terms of crime, job rate, housing, culture and essentially every single metric used by market economists, Cleveland doesn't hold a candle to Houston.

    I would have to analyze that one.

    The last one of those I did analyze said that San Diego was more livable than Cleveland...and it gave some of the same factors you note: crime, unemployment, congestion, cost of living, even success of sports teams. In 11 categories, Cleveland came out better.....the only one San Diego was better than Cleveland? Winter weather......and because of that it gave SD the overall edge. (their conclusions totally ignored their own findings on those things.) So, I don't know about Houston and how it would compare. You would need to show that data....as from experience I have to be skeptical

    I'm the self-appointed defender of logic. When I see things that are illogical, I argue the counterpoint. Unless, of course, I'm the one posing the illogical statements....like my stupid trades or my overhyping of practice squad players like James Davis, Carlton Mitchell and Charles Johnson.

    Well, I don't think I ever said that I applied logic to this Houston thing. I was not really applying living standard metrics. I was simply saying that from my observations and experience Houston had little to attract me as a travel destination. It seemed to have new tall buildings....but nothing that stood out architecturally. I am sure that it has the museums/orchestras/zoos/botanical gardens etc.that all big cities have.

    The one thing I did get to was the San Jacinto Battle Monument. Of course, being Texas, they felt compelled to build it a few feet taller than the Washington Monument (575 vs. 555 ft.).

    A couple of things I did not get to that I may have liked to see were the NASA Space Center and the Astrodome.

    But, overall, it rates low on my list of interesting cities. The likes of San Diego/San Fran/Seattle/Portland/Denver/SA/Boston/Phlly/NYC/Chicago/Miami...and many others (even Charlotte) come out ahead on my list than Houston does.

    Yes, I live in Charlotte...and that's why I can have an unbiased opinion on this matter. Because neither city compares to Charlotte...who is expected to be the fastest growing city in the world over the next 15 years (according to the United Nations World Urbanization Report).

    Things change. They said similar things about Cleveland in 1965. But, sure, Charlotte is OK.

    Sure, if that makes you happy at night...more people care about what you think than what I think. Have a field day with it, buddy.

    I'd love to see some stats backing up your mobile home/refineries claim. Is it because Houston is number one in energy and also in the South? Okay, that's a relatively easy gap to bridge...except you're not factoring in the fact they have the most college graduates, the highest average salary, and the second most Fortune 500 companies (behind NYC). I doubt there are very many college graduates who work for Fortune 500 companies and make, on average, $75k a year that live in mobile homes.

    A self-proclaimed expert doesn't make you an actual expert. Vacationing in cities doesn't make you an expert. Being an economist, studying varying real estate market trends, and livability indices makes you an expert.

    You claim to be "applying living standard metrics" yet you can't refute the claim that Houston overwhelmingly outranks Cleveland in every single livability metric. So, which is it?

    Houston isn't interesting to you. It's dull, it's bland. It doesn't compare to any city you've visited. That's all well and good. It's still overwhelmingly favored by the masses and a much more widely loved city than Cleveland.

    Now, I'm done with this...unless you can provide real, quantifiable statistics to refute anything I've said.

    @tim-couch-pulls-out said:

    Sure, if that makes you happy at night...more people care about what you think than what I think. Have a field day with it, buddy.

    You are "the field".

    I'd love to see some stats backing up your mobile home/refineries claim. Is it because Houston is number one in energy and also in the South? Okay,

    Oh, its a silly joke....lighten up Francis. (though do you deny that Houston has a lot of refineries and mobile Homes)

    that's a relatively easy gap to bridge...except you're not factoring in the fact they have the most college graduates, the highest average salary, and the second most Fortune 500 companies (behind NYC). I doubt there are very many college graduates who work for Fortune 500 companies and make, on average, $75k a year that live in mobile homes.

    So, they are like a Banana Republic....they have wealthy and poor and not much in between?

    A self-proclaimed expert doesn't make you an actual expert. Vacationing in cities doesn't make you an expert. Being an economist, studying varying real estate market trends, and livability indices makes you an expert.

    YOU are the one talking apples and oranges on this. My experience makes me an expert.....and I was talking about the desirability of a city to visit.

    Maybe Houston has this wonderful economy. That doesn't make it any less boring because people there are making some money.

    You claim to be "applying living standard metrics" yet you can't refute the claim that Houston overwhelmingly outranks Cleveland in every single livability metric. So, which is it?

    I didn't claim to apply anything. I didn't attempt to refute anything. You are the one that claimed Houston outranked Cleveland in those metrics.. All I asked is for you to show that data.....and I said the last time I saw data like this respecting San Diego, it was squirrelly.

    Houston isn't interesting to you. It's dull, it's bland. It doesn't compare to any city you've visited. That's all well and good.

    It is all well and good.....and that is the sum and substance of what I have said all along. (I don't know about any city...)

    It's still overwhelmingly favored by the masses and a much more widely loved city than Cleveland.

    That is an unprovable statement....which is wholly different from "livability metrics". It just has more people.

    In terms of a vacation destination...nothing I have seen has said where Houston ranks at the top of any list.

    Now, I'm done with this...unless you can provide real, quantifiable statistics to refute anything I've said.

    I haven't tried to refute any statement by you...that is provable.

    I only perhaps dispute your claim that Houston is more loved.....a statement that is unprovable and unrefuteable.

    It is all anecdotal, so let's ask this question: Which city do you like better to visit....Cleveland or Houston?

    (have you even been to Houston?