All Time Browns Depth Chart
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Otto would be as good as Russell Wilson or Andrew Luck in today's leauge, Otto was smart he didn't make many mistakes and when he did he didn't do them again. That's why the "Father of Modern Football" Paul Brown wanted him.
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By your way of thinking....below average players league wide in today's game should be put on an All time Greats team over Hall of Fame players that played in the past.
Is that how you roll?
Then I can only assume that you think that Pele would be a bench warmer at best at soccer.....since you are such a soccer fag.
Jim Brown would be better right here right now than either Adrian Peterson or DeMarcus Murray.
Players today are bigger, faster, and stronger. I'm sorry if that shatters your nostalgia.
Players today are bigger, faster, and stronger. I'm sorry if that shatters your nostalgia.
So what you are saying is Jammal Lewis is better then Jim Brown? Jammal Lewis? Jammal had 58 TD's on 2,542 attempts Jimmy on the other hand 106 TD's on 2,359 attempts. These numbers spellit out for you.
"BUT WAIT JAMMAL PLAYED AGAINST BETTER COMPITION"
But wait Jim Brown would beat the living shit out of Jammal today and in their prime
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Zombo said:
What's wrong with making an all-time depth chart based upon how they played against their peers?
You want guys that only played the last ten years because they are the biggest and fastest? What fun is that?
I don't know how Otto Graham would do in the NFL today if you raised him from the dead, put him in a time machine, had him born in 1990, put him through modern high school and college football training and then put him on an NFL roster. Who cares? 50 years from now there will a guy bigger, stronger and a faster than Tom Brady playing QB for the Patriots and there will be a bigger, faster, stronger DL playing for the texans than JJ Watt and some punk kid will want to leave them off of their team's all-time roster.
When the NFL, NBA and MLB select their all-time teams they select Jim Brown, Bill Russell and Babe Ruth ... not Arian Foster, Dwight Howard and Ryan Braun.
Zombo
Money post Zombo!
Meatball on spaghetti, Otto Graham led the Browns into Championship Games in 1946,1947,1948,1949,1950,1951,1952,1953,1954,1955. Cleveland won 7 of those Pro Football Championships. A lot of NFL teams tried to dismiss their pro football Championship levels from 46-49 to junior achievement league. Consequently, Cleveland was warned they better bring their sling shot to take down the big boys. No better sling shot than Otto Graham in the REAL birth place of the West Coast Offense... Works every time when your QB is Ottomatic. Every time some Steel-for-brains wanted to tell me about 1 for the Thumb - I said I got your 1 for the thumb right here! We were working toward 1 for the second thumb in the 50s and 60s. We reached 8 Pro Football Championship Wins in 1964, which is why the Rooney Family needed to look to a former Paul Brown pupil - Chuck Noll in order to finally put their program on the NFL map. The SF dynasty borrowed a majority of Paul Brown's ideas all the way down to the careful selection of QB pedigree that would bridge the perfection of delivery to the idea of the offensive design.
Joe Montana and Tom Brady are often praised for what they've accomplished in NFL Championships and rightfully so. Sometimes, younger generations will question Graham's stats back when QBs weren't babied so much by rules and what secondaries could do to receivers all the way down field. Then they will say they wonder if he could make it in more modern eras. Here's the thing, pro football is old enough to the extent where trends get recycled way more often than they get invented. Bill Walsh never INVENTED all of Paul Brown's concepts. He recycled them and cleverly added some Sid Gilman wrinkles and others. That wasn't too long after the Dallas Cowboys patterned a lot of their scouting methods and criteria after Paul Brown (and others before him). If memory serves me right, it wasn't cool to consider Joe Montana's arm strength or college offensive system before round 3 or 4 (and some would even say there's nothing gotta have about the stats below). True; but the 1 team that gave him the perfect match for his skill set didn't give a rat about the rear view mirror - any more than the 34 D that drafted JJ Watt (only to see Wade Phillips change to a 4 man front 78% of the snaps in JJ's rookie year) to dwarf his previous college stats and alleged pre-draft limitations to just 1 scheme/alignment. Interestingly enough, Brady often took a back seat to the Freshman Sensation at the school up North. Now here's the Victorious Secret SF looked to emphasizing why film is every bit as important as Joe Montana's college numbers below:
Year ▴ Team GP Comp Att % Yds TD INT
Money post Zombo!
Meatball on spaghetti, Otto Graham led the Browns into Championship Games in 1946,1947,1948,1949,1950,1951,1952,1953,1954,1955. Cleveland won 7 of those Pro Football Championships. A lot of NFL teams tried to dismiss their pro football Championship levels from 46-49 to junior achievement league. Consequently, Cleveland was warned they better bring their sling shot to take down the big boys. No better sling shot than Otto Graham in the REAL birth place of the West Coast Offense... Works every time when your QB is Ottomatic. Every time some Steel-for-brains wanted to tell me about 1 for the Thumb - I said I got your 1 for the thumb right here! We were working toward 1 for the second thumb in the 50s and 60s. We reached 8 Pro Football Championship Wins in 1964, which is why the Rooney Family needed to look to a former Paul Brown pupil - Chuck Noll in order to finally put their program on the NFL map. The SF dynasty borrowed a majority of Paul Brown's ideas all the way down to the careful selection of QB pedigree that would bridge the perfection of delivery to the idea of the offensive design.
Joe Montana and Tom Brady are often praised for what they've accomplished in NFL Championships and rightfully so. Sometimes, younger generations will question Graham's stats back when QBs weren't babied so much by rules and what secondaries could do to receivers all the way down field. Then they will say they wonder if he could make it in more modern eras. Here's the thing, pro football is old enough to the extent where trends get recycled way more often than they get invented. Bill Walsh never INVENTED all of Paul Brown's concepts. He recycled them and cleverly added some Sid Gilman wrinkles and others. That wasn't too long after the Dallas Cowboys patterned a lot of their scouting methods and criteria after Paul Brown (and others before him). If memory serves me right, it wasn't cool to consider Joe Montana's arm strength or college offensive system before round 3 or 4 (and some would even say there's nothing gotta have about the stats below). True; but the 1 team that gave him the perfect match for his skill set didn't give a rat about the rear view mirror - any more than the 34 D that drafted JJ Watt (only to see Wade Phillips change to a 4 man front 78% of the snaps in JJ's rookie year) to dwarf his previous college stats and alleged pre-draft limitations to just 1 scheme/alignment. Interestingly enough, Brady often took a back seat to the Freshman Sensation at the school up North. Now here's the Victorious Secret SF looked to emphasizing why film is every bit as important as Joe Montana's college numbers below:
Year ▴ Team GP Comp Att % Yds TD INT
I feel bad I left this out regarding Otto - here's part of an article explaining there was at least one 2 sport professional in existence long before Dion Sanders, Bo Jackson and Brian Jordan were even wetting their first diapers: Otto was recruited to play pro-basketball with the Rochester Royals. Along with teammates Red Holtzman, Chuck "Rifleman" Connors, Al Cervi, Del Rice and Tom Rich, etal., the Royals won the 1946 NBL Championship a year before the NBL reformed into the NBA.
Every pro team Otto joined had a knack for winning a championship. I think he only played professional basketball for 2-3 years. Rumor has it, those that have seen him golf down in Sarasota, FL in life after football swear he could have been a pro golfer if he chose that route back in the day.
I keep hearing this crap Otto couldn't have played QB in today's game that babies/favors the passing game so more points can be scored. Having said that, I saw an AFC Championship Game where NE's secondary (Ty Law in particular) was allowed to mug Indy's WRs all over the field without any penalties for doing so. Oh yeah, and it was OUTDOORS. In any event, NE won that game 23-3 while Dungy and Peyton would protest to the top of the league about the unbearable QB conditions. Those QB conditions were the exact same ones Otto Graham played under when he led us to 10 consecutive Pro Football Championship Games (winning 70% of those). No panic attacks or crying necessary! Next time anyone tells you Graham couldn't play in today's game - you tell them "I got your today's game right here!"
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By your way of thinking....below average players league wide in today's game should be put on an All time Greats team over Hall of Fame players that played in the past.
Is that how you roll?
Then I can only assume that you think that Pele would be a bench warmer at best at soccer.....since you are such a soccer fag.
Jim Brown would be better right here right now than either Adrian Peterson or DeMarcus Murray.
Better that AP? Debatable. I get your much better than their @ the time peers- but better than current players? Um, not so fast. IIRC, Geno Marchetti was the first lineman to top 300 pounds- now it's a rarity for any lineman to weigh LESS than 300 pounds. I don't think you could find a starting OL who weighs less than that. You can debate if the oldsters had the same training tools available to current athletes, they'd be competitive- but I'd still bet the below average guys wouldn't be able to cut it in today's NFL- or any other sport. Just plain not big enough or fast enough. You want an example? Wilt Chamberlain would doubtless be a HOF center in today's NBA- still think he could post a couple 100 point games against today's level of competition? I for one say hell no.
So all we're saying is the average level of skill in today's sports world is far, far superior than it was 50 years ago. So yeah- the absolute greatest would probably be great in any era. But- I'd put heavy money on Kentucky's college team to blow out George Mikan's NBA guys.
BTW Gip- Pele was to soccer as Jim Brown was to football.
Players today are bigger, faster, and stronger. I'm sorry if that shatters your nostalgia.
Just let him live in his nostalgia world- you ought to know by now, even if Gip's wrong, he's still right.
Better that AP? Debatable. I get your much better than their @ the time peers- but better than current players? Um, not so fast. IIRC, Geno Marchetti was the first lineman to top 300 pounds- now it's a rarity for any lineman to weigh LESS than 300 pounds. I don't think you could find a starting OL who weighs less than that. You can debate if the oldsters had the same training tools available to current athletes, they'd be competitive- but I'd still bet the below average guys wouldn't be able to cut it in today's NFL- or any other sport. Just plain not big enough or fast enough. You want an example? Wilt Chamberlain would doubtless be a HOF center in today's NBA- still think he could post a couple 100 point games against today's level of competition? I for one say hell no.
So all we're saying is the average level of skill in today's sports world is far, far superior than it was 50 years ago. So yeah- the absolute greatest would probably be great in any era. But- I'd put heavy money on Kentucky's college team to blow out George Mikan's NBA guys.
BTW Gip- Pele was to soccer as Jim Brown was to football.
Just let him live in his nostalgia world- you ought to know by now, even if Gip's wrong, he's still right.
Players now train and condition all year long. Back in the day they would show up for double session practice out of shape. Never see that happen now, or rarely.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Better that AP? Debatable. I get your much better than their @ the time peers- but better than current players? Um, not so fast. IIRC, Geno Marchetti was the first lineman to top 300 pounds- now it's a rarity for any lineman to weigh LESS than 300 pounds. I don't think you could find a starting OL who weighs less than that. You can debate if the oldsters had the same training tools available to current athletes, they'd be competitive- but I'd still bet the below average guys wouldn't be able to cut it in today's NFL- or any other sport. Just plain not big enough or fast enough. You want an example? Wilt Chamberlain would doubtless be a HOF center in today's NBA- still think he could post a couple 100 point games against today's level of competition? I for one say hell no.
So all we're saying is the average level of skill in today's sports world is far, far superior than it was 50 years ago. So yeah- the absolute greatest would probably be great in any era. But- I'd put heavy money on Kentucky's college team to blow out George Mikan's NBA guys.
BTW Gip- Pele was to soccer as Jim Brown was to football.
Just let him live in his nostalgia world- you ought to know by now, even if Gip's wrong, he's still right.
Players now train and condition all year long. Back in the day they would show up for double session practice out of shape. Never see that happen now, or rarely.
First, Marchetti never played at 300#... Of the old Colts, Lipscomb might have played at 300, but not Gino. Before the 80's 300#-ers were a novelty not a standard.
Players now train and condition all year long. Back in the day they would show up for double session practice out of shape. Never see that happen now, or rarely.
Back in the day they often played "out of shape"... and had a smoke at halftime.
We've been down this road before with the battle of the great teams posted every other year or so. There are just two distinct schools of thought when it comes to old heroes crossing the years.
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Better that AP? Debatable. I get your much better than their @ the time peers- but better than current players? Um, not so fast. IIRC, Geno Marchetti was the first lineman to top 300 pounds- now it's a rarity for any lineman to weigh LESS than 300 pounds. I don't think you could find a starting OL who weighs less than that. You can debate if the oldsters had the same training tools available to current athletes, they'd be competitive- but I'd still bet the below average guys wouldn't be able to cut it in today's NFL- or any other sport. Just plain not big enough or fast enough. You want an example? Wilt Chamberlain would doubtless be a HOF center in today's NBA- still think he could post a couple 100 point games against today's level of competition? I for one say hell no.
So all we're saying is the average level of skill in today's sports world is far, far superior than it was 50 years ago. So yeah- the absolute greatest would probably be great in any era. But- I'd put heavy money on Kentucky's college team to blow out George Mikan's NBA guys.
BTW Gip- Pele was to soccer as Jim Brown was to football.
Just let him live in his nostalgia world- you ought to know by now, even if Gip's wrong, he's still right.
Players now train and condition all year long. Back in the day they would show up for double session practice out of shape. Never see that happen now, or rarely.
Players now train and condition all year long. Back in the day they would show up for double session practice out of shape. Never see that happen now, or rarely.
Good point DieHard. Here's the thing though - Jim Brown never missed a game. The rest of this doesn't matter and you may not want to read it if you don't like long posts or the world according to this goofy blowhard.
In 1997 and 1998, I volunteered 2 mornings per week in the Tampa Bay Buccaneers strength and conditioning program on top of the 50 hours per week I was managing a Corporate Fitness Program for Xerox. My entire staff worked for Mark Asanovich, who was the first Assistant Coach Tony Dungy hired. Anyway, Mark's philosophy was to reduce any unnecessary wear and tear on the athletes he was empowered to condition and keep fit/healthy. The strength and conditioning programs across the league had 2 different philosophies butting heads at the time. One felt ballistic movements that mimicked various football movements would carry over to the field while the other had a thesis that was complete fiction. That being that case, anyone who volunteered to assist Mark had to attend his offseason clinic usually held on a Saturday Morning. When I lived in Florida I attended countless strength and conditioning clinics because the CEUs I needed in order to maintain my status as a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist. Anyway, Mark's Strength & Conditioning clinc began with a series of gruesome snaps shots of brutal weightlifting injuries.
So what followed in a room full of Physical Therapists, Sports Med staffs and strength training professionals? Mark asked what all those pictures had in common. People answered brutal injuries, suspect techniques and before long - the answers stopped. Mark still didn't have what he wanted; and your buddy Flugel is trying not to puke while see a humerus broken in 2. Guess who freakin gets called on? I thought my answer was gonna suck; BUT I see names of countries on uniforms. BINGO! Mark said, many of these are Olympians which tells you what about these athletes? They're competing to be crowned the best in the world. Is it safe to say, they have some of the best techniques with the most practice behind them? In chorus, everyone gave him the "yes" he wanted to hear. So if this type of athlete can get injured despite the superior techniques and the most practice - what do you think happens when high schools, colleges and even pro teams are attempting to do this less expertise than the Olympian pictured with compound fractures? Then he said, can you imagine how long I'd keep my gig here if Paul Gruber, Warren Sapp or Mike Alstott couldn't play football because they got hurt trying to perform ballistic movements. Someone else said in the land of where's smoke there's usually fire that Charles Haley's back disc injury began in the weight room in a program. How would you like to be the ka-nuckle tied to that - if true? I already have enough things associating me with ka-nuckle heads so no thanks!
Then he had PhD Kenny Mannie, who headed up the Strength and Conditioning Program at Michigan State at the time, cover his philosophy on how much hang cleans/power cleans and other Olympic lifts carry over. Compelling stuff but he was hilarious with the delivery. Anyway, long story short - I learned things in the short span of time I never learned in college. All that said, the opposite train of thought throughout the league could probably put together their versions of supporting some ballistic movements. Both sides of that debate, tend to use plyometrics at varying degrees. These are actions aimed at improving explosion and recruitment of type II fibers. Any of our former football players remember their conditioning stations where all kinds of jumps and drills were aimed at this as well as footwork, reaction times, muscular endurance, etc.
One of the things Mark always stressed was the importance of rest and recuperation in season and off season. As of April 1st, they only wanted guys coming 3 days per week which would continue all the way until football season ended. It was supposed to voluntary; but guys got paid (outside of their contract) specified amounts for completing the workout. He also stressed the importance of guys taking some time off especially if they made the playoffs and went well into January. He made us all keenly aware of why rookies hit the wall earlier than others. Because they never get any time off after their last college season ends throughout the workouts going up until the draft. Then they go to mini-camps and offseason strength and conditioning programs already in progress.
At the time, I began to think about wear and tear showing up in the form of bigger volumes of injuries. Some people will say old school guys were just tougher than today's guys. That may be true to some extent; BUT I gotta believe the increased # of games and length of time dedicated to training impacts rest and recuperation periods up against the wear and tear process of a 16 game schedule. For example, I don't know if turf toe was a problem back when Jimmy Brown could show up for an entire season without worry if he'd miss a game for some of the types of nagging injuries today's wear and tear perpetuates. Meanwhile efforts to promote more scoring through passing games is putting a lot of today's bigger, stronger and faster athletes in open spaces more frequently than ever before. Inevitably the laws of physics, not to be confused with laws of NFL Commissioners, tell us the frequency of violent collisions in space can only increase the more NFL legislation favors the passing games. That can't help all these alleged concerns about concussions.
My excitement levels of football in Cleveland reached some of their finest moments when Greg Pruitt would turn a plan for a 4 yard gain into a 65 yard TD run. It had everything from unparalleled compact power to the thrill of seeing breakaway game speed hitting the acceleration gear. Goosebump-level! It sure beat the ever the living shit out of redundantly hearing about arm strength from one more version of deaf, dumb and blind in the pocket. Who cares how FREAKIN strong Brandon Weeden's arm was? His theme song, at least to our opponents was "Here Comes Santa Claus!" In the pocket, that guy had the instincts of a possum crossing the road at night. That did us so much good we drafted another first round QB with a shelf life of 7 quarters that might get us bullied right back into reaching on 1 more QB. As much as people HATED Colt McCoy, at least he was drafted in the 3rd round where the only QB alternatives of his class drafted ahead of him were Glassbones Bradford, Tim Tebow and Jimmie Clausen. He was the least of all evils in that draft class; and was most recently seen outplaying RG3 in DC. Supply and demand tells me we might want to further investigate why/how Conner Shaw could sport a TD/INT ratio of 24:1 in the SEC. Keep in mind, that was in a style of offense where Steve Spurrier has been known to hang QBs out to dry in some very unsound pass protections. The numbers despite that, especially as he gained experience and familiarity in the offense, show me someone that can process and think quickly on his feet. The 4.64 forty speed doesn't hurt either if necessary. Sometimes divine intervention is telling us the supply and demand says this is a year to make it easier to play QB rather than pretending we can invent the right QB in a round he doesn't belong in. Right now, that's my biggest worry heading into this draft.
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You are as stupid as anyone I have ever seen on this board. I have to assume you are a Steeler fan. No fan of any other team could be as dumb as you come off.
Dumb, your one of the biggest Homers on this board. Just because you have a autograph picture of Jim Brown hanging above your bed, he is the greatest RB to ever play. You post your homer opionion. Someone else post their opioion which happens to be the opposite of yours and you reply 20 times trying to talk them out of it. Go fuck yourself court clerk. You ain't changing my mind. Suck on my giant smelly balls!
Dumb, your one of the biggest Homers on this board. Just because you have a autograph picture of Jim Brown hanging above your bed, he is the greatest RB to ever play. You post your homer opionion. Someone else post their opioion which happens to be the opposite of yours and you reply 20 times trying to talk them out of it. Go fuck yourself court clerk. You ain't changing my mind. Suck on my giant smelly balls!
You don't own a pair....how can I or anyone suck them?
Nevertheless.....still no one has said anything as purely stupid as you have.
Your statement is tantamount to me saying that as a QB Terry Bradshaw could not hold Johnny Manziel's jockstrap.
(you agree that would be an absolutely stupid statement....do you not?....yet that is the equivalent of what you said).
We could just take a vote and ask others if your statements that Otto Graham or Jim Brown could not play today is or is not one of the dumbest ever made on these board.
Vote:
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Good job on the list Gipper. I tried to pick it apart but can only find issue with two things and they are both debatable.
- Clarence Scott -- Solid player but just can't get wrapped around him being number one. I would just put the two best interchangeable safeties so Turner would be my starter at SS.
- Mike Pruitt being left off. I know Motley is a legend and HOFer, but Mike was bad.
Good job on the list Gipper. I tried to pick it apart but can only find issue with two things and they are both debatable.
- Clarence Scott -- Solid player but just can't get wrapped around him being number one. I would just put the two best interchangeable safeties so Turner would be my starter at SS.
- Mike Pruitt being left off. I know Motley is a legend and HOFer, but Mike was bad.
Well, I addressed the SS/FS dilemma....because, like I said.....Turner didn't start at SS much....he was at FS more.
And I had M. Pruitt at backup FB behind Motley.....but I succumbed to the argument that JB was a fullback....so I had to move JB to FB backed up by Motley....leaving Pruitt out.
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Who cares how FREAKIN strong Brandon Weeden's arm was? His theme song, at least to our opponents was "Here Comes Santa Claus!" In the pocket, that guy had the instincts of a possum crossing the road at night.
Love this line. Hilarious.
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Dumb, your one of the biggest Homers on this board. Just because you have a autograph picture of Jim Brown hanging above your bed, he is the greatest RB to ever play. You post your homer opionion. Someone else post their opioion which happens to be the opposite of yours and you reply 20 times trying to talk them out of it. Go fuck yourself court clerk. You ain't changing my mind. Suck on my giant smelly balls!
You don't own a pair....how can I or anyone suck them?
Nevertheless.....still no one has said anything as purely stupid as you have.
Your statement is tantamount to me saying that as a QB Terry Bradshaw could not hold Johnny Manziel's jockstrap.
(you agree that would be an absolutely stupid statement....do you not?....yet that is the equivalent of what you said).
We could just take a vote and ask others if your statements that Otto Graham or Jim Brown could not play today is or is not one of the dumbest ever made on these board.
Vote:
You don't own a pair....how can I or anyone suck them?
Nevertheless.....still no one has said anything as purely stupid as you have.
Your statement is tantamount to me saying that as a QB Terry Bradshaw could not hold Johnny Manziel's jockstrap.
(you agree that would be an absolutely stupid statement....do you not?....yet that is the equivalent of what you said).
We could just take a vote and ask others if your statements that Otto Graham or Jim Brown could not play today is or is not one of the dumbest ever made on these board.
Vote:
Hi Gipper. They could play. The question is would they be winning MVP awards and leading the league in passing or rushing. I don't stink so but what do I know.
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Jim Brown would probably just be average if he played now. Bug, strong, fast HBs aren't an anomaly now.
Lou Groza would be a terrible kicker, and in no way better than Dawson.
If you want the very best team, your depth chart above would not be it
By your way of thinking....below average players league wide in today's game should be put on an All time Greats team over Hall of Fame players that played in the past.
Is that how you roll?
Then I can only assume that you think that Pele would be a bench warmer at best at soccer.....since you are such a soccer fag.
Jim Brown would be better right here right now than either Adrian Peterson or DeMarcus Murray.
By your way of thinking....below average players league wide in today's game should be put on an All time Greats team over Hall of Fame players that played in the past.
Is that how you roll?
Then I can only assume that you think that Pele would be a bench warmer at best at soccer.....since you are such a soccer fag.
Jim Brown would be better right here right now than either Adrian Peterson or DeMarcus Murray.
I agree with Woody.
Joe Greene, the largest Steeler on the roster for the majority of the 70's played at 275.
Today Joe Green would get punked playing D tackle.
The late 80's Browns would beat that Steeler team. They were bigger, faster and stronger.
The absolute worst team the Browns put on the field since 1999 would destroy the 64 Browns.
An yes, I too believe Jim Brown would be perhaps be a serviceable back today, not the stud he was in the 60's.
Time to get real Gip. I'm guessing you are very old. You witnessed the Browns greatness and are vicariously living through them .. and just can't let go.
Could you imagine if Barry Sanders could go back in time and play in the 50's and 60's....holy fuck, he'd crush JB's record.
He'd play complete game without even getting dirty by juking the fuck out of those slow and undersized defenders by todays standards.
Eh, I shouldn't say he wouldn't get dirty. He'd get tackled eventually lol.
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Who cares how FREAKIN strong Brandon Weeden's arm was? His theme song, at least to our opponents was "Here Comes Santa Claus!" In the pocket, that guy had the instincts of a possum crossing the road at night.
Love this line. Hilarious.
Who cares how FREAKIN strong Brandon Weeden's arm was? His theme song, at least to our opponents was "Here Comes Santa Claus!" In the pocket, that guy had the instincts of a possum crossing the road at night.
Love this line. Hilarious.
Thanks - glad you liked it.
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By your way of thinking....below average players league wide in today's game should be put on an All time Greats team over Hall of Fame players that played in the past.
Is that how you roll?
Then I can only assume that you think that Pele would be a bench warmer at best at soccer.....since you are such a soccer fag.
Jim Brown would be better right here right now than either Adrian Peterson or DeMarcus Murray.
I agree with Woody.
Joe Greene, the largest Steeler on the roster for the majority of the 70's played at 275.
Today Joe Green would get punked playing D tackle.
The late 80's Browns would beat that Steeler team. They were bigger, faster and stronger.
The absolute worst team the Browns put on the field since 1999 would destroy the 64 Browns.
An yes, I too believe Jim Brown would be perhaps be a serviceable back today, not the stud he was in the 60's.
Time to get real Gip. I'm guessing you are very old. You witnessed the Browns greatness and are vicariously living through them .. and just can't let go.
Could you imagine if Barry Sanders could go back in time and play in the 50's and 60's....holy fuck, he'd crush JB's record.
He'd play complete game without even getting dirty by juking the fuck out of those slow and undersized defenders by todays standards.
Eh, I shouldn't say he wouldn't get dirty. He'd get tackled eventually lol.
Stuart said:
I agree with Woody.
Joe Greene, the largest Steeler on the roster for the majority of the 70's played at 275.
Today Joe Green would get punked playing D tackle.
The late 80's Browns would beat that Steeler team. They were bigger, faster and stronger.
The absolute worst team the Browns put on the field since 1999 would destroy the 64 Browns.
An yes, I too believe Jim Brown would be perhaps be a serviceable back today, not the stud he was in the 60's.
Time to get real Gip. I'm guessing you are very old. You witnessed the Browns greatness and are vicariously living through them .. and just can't let go.
Could you imagine if Barry Sanders could go back in time and play in the 50's and 60's....holy fuck, he'd crush JB's record.
He'd play complete game without even getting dirty by juking the fuck out of those slow and undersized defenders by todays standards.
Eh, I shouldn't say he wouldn't get dirty. He'd get tackled eventually lol.
I think everybody understands that if you put a team from the 1960s on the field with a team today they would be small and they would be crushed.
And the players of today train harder and better.
But that doesn't mean that these individuals named weren't better at their positions than any others who played it.
And then there is a distinction within the distinction: Gene Hickerson, all-time great guard who makes the all-time depth chart of any team he would have played on, but, at his size, could not play in the current NFL.
Jim Brown, on the hand ... who you say would be "serviceable" ... could.
Last year's leading rusher, DeMarco Murray, is 6'0 217 and runs a 4.45 40
Jim Brown 6'2, 232 lbs, ran a sub 4.5 40
Now it you put Brown in his prime, top-conditioned shape, and put him on the 2014 Cowboys, you think he could be "serviceable", but no DeMarco Murray?
Terrance West 5'10, 225 lbs. 4.54 40 time ... smaller and slower than Brown
Isiah Crowell, 5'11, 224 lbs 4.53 40 time ... smaller and slower than Brown.
Are you saying if Jim Brown came back in his prime he couldn't beat out these running backs that he is bigger and faster than?
Zombo
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Read the book Instant Replay by Jerry Kramer. It goes into detail of how the NFL was back then from training camp through the whole season. He played for the Green Bay Packers under Vince Lombardi. Great book by the way.
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You don't own a pair....how can I or anyone suck them?
Nevertheless.....still no one has said anything as purely stupid as you have.
Your statement is tantamount to me saying that as a QB Terry Bradshaw could not hold Johnny Manziel's jockstrap.
(you agree that would be an absolutely stupid statement....do you not?....yet that is the equivalent of what you said).
We could just take a vote and ask others if your statements that Otto Graham or Jim Brown could not play today is or is not one of the dumbest ever made on these board.
Vote:
Hi Gipper. They could play. The question is would they be winning MVP awards and leading the league in passing or rushing. I don't stink so but what do I know.
Hi Gipper. They could play. The question is would they be winning MVP awards and leading the league in passing or rushing. I don't stink so but what do I know.
Exactly....what do you know. OG at 6'1" taller than Drew Brees.....and without doubt he had all the intellect and talent to run essentially the same type of offense that Joe Montana ran (and Joe was about the same size as OG)
And remember....OG would be playing under today's rules where you can't breathe on the receiver. What kind of hey do you think he and Speedie and Lavelli would make.
Brees, Brady, Wilson...those guys weren't MVPs because they were taller...it was because they were smarter. But none of them were ever smarter than OG.
And JB.....bigger by an inch and 15 pounds.....and probably stronger (have you seen JBs physique?...which he got without modern training. And probably just as fast. You never really saw him run down from behind by DBs).
compare
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By your way of thinking....below average players league wide in today's game should be put on an All time Greats team over Hall of Fame players that played in the past.
Is that how you roll?
Then I can only assume that you think that Pele would be a bench warmer at best at soccer.....since you are such a soccer fag.
Jim Brown would be better right here right now than either Adrian Peterson or DeMarcus Murray.
I agree with Woody.
Joe Greene, the largest Steeler on the roster for the majority of the 70's played at 275.
Today Joe Green would get punked playing D tackle.
The late 80's Browns would beat that Steeler team. They were bigger, faster and stronger.
The absolute worst team the Browns put on the field since 1999 would destroy the 64 Browns.
An yes, I too believe Jim Brown would be perhaps be a serviceable back today, not the stud he was in the 60's.
Time to get real Gip. I'm guessing you are very old. You witnessed the Browns greatness and are vicariously living through them .. and just can't let go.
Could you imagine if Barry Sanders could go back in time and play in the 50's and 60's....holy fuck, he'd crush JB's record.
He'd play complete game without even getting dirty by juking the fuck out of those slow and undersized defenders by todays standards.
Eh, I shouldn't say he wouldn't get dirty. He'd get tackled eventually lol.
Stuart said:
I agree with Woody.
Joe Greene, the largest Steeler on the roster for the majority of the 70's played at 275.
Today Joe Green would get punked playing D tackle.
Today, Joe Green with training and nutrition would be playing at about 300 lbs. and would still be punking today's OL.
The late 80's Browns would beat that Steeler team. They were bigger, faster and stronger.
They weighed more.....but I don't think they were faster or stronger....and like I said....a little weight training and nutrition and the 70s Steelers would be just as heavy as the Browns.
The absolute worst team the Browns put on the field since 1999 would destroy the 64 Browns.
I would take my chances. Frank Ryan could certainly play today.....and JB no doubt...and Warfield/Collins were every bit as big/fast as the Browns WRs today.
An yes, I too believe Jim Brown would be perhaps be a serviceable back today, not the stud he was in the 60's.
He was 6'2" 232 pounds of all muscle....and that wasn't his best attribute. Instincts and elusiveness were his best traits. He was bigger and stronger and faster than most RBs today.
Time to get real Gip. I'm guessing you are very old. You witnessed the Browns greatness and are vicariously living through them .. and just can't let go.
Then why am I defending the Steelers against your stupidity?
Could you imagine if Barry Sanders could go back in time and play in the 50's and 60's....holy fuck, he'd crush JB's record.
He'd play complete game without even getting dirty by juking the fuck out of those slow and undersized defenders by todays standards.
He would be tantamount to Gale Sayers who did play at about the same time as JB.
He would be outstanding....but not really any better than Sayers....who was bigger than Sandersm, but with equal moves.
Could all those "older players" benefit from today's training methods? Absolutely. And they would be just as good.
I mean its like baseball.....how many guys....without steroids, actually could hit the homers that Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle hit? The fence line isn't any different. (they may even be shorter overall now). The pitching? Guys were throwing at 100 mph then as well as now.
The only difference really is in the more liberal use of the bullpen.
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Stuart said:
I agree with Woody.
Joe Greene, the largest Steeler on the roster for the majority of the 70's played at 275.
Today Joe Green would get punked playing D tackle.
The late 80's Browns would beat that Steeler team. They were bigger, faster and stronger.
The absolute worst team the Browns put on the field since 1999 would destroy the 64 Browns.
An yes, I too believe Jim Brown would be perhaps be a serviceable back today, not the stud he was in the 60's.
Time to get real Gip. I'm guessing you are very old. You witnessed the Browns greatness and are vicariously living through them .. and just can't let go.
Could you imagine if Barry Sanders could go back in time and play in the 50's and 60's....holy fuck, he'd crush JB's record.
He'd play complete game without even getting dirty by juking the fuck out of those slow and undersized defenders by todays standards.
Eh, I shouldn't say he wouldn't get dirty. He'd get tackled eventually lol.
I think everybody understands that if you put a team from the 1960s on the field with a team today they would be small and they would be crushed.
And the players of today train harder and better.
But that doesn't mean that these individuals named weren't better at their positions than any others who played it.
And then there is a distinction within the distinction: Gene Hickerson, all-time great guard who makes the all-time depth chart of any team he would have played on, but, at his size, could not play in the current NFL.
Jim Brown, on the hand ... who you say would be "serviceable" ... could.
Last year's leading rusher, DeMarco Murray, is 6'0 217 and runs a 4.45 40
Jim Brown 6'2, 232 lbs, ran a sub 4.5 40
Now it you put Brown in his prime, top-conditioned shape, and put him on the 2014 Cowboys, you think he could be "serviceable", but no DeMarco Murray?
Terrance West 5'10, 225 lbs. 4.54 40 time ... smaller and slower than Brown
Isiah Crowell, 5'11, 224 lbs 4.53 40 time ... smaller and slower than Brown.
Are you saying if Jim Brown came back in his prime he couldn't beat out these running backs that he is bigger and faster than?
Zombo
Zombo said:
I think everybody understands that if you put a team from the 1960s on the field with a team today they would be small and they would be crushed.
And the players of today train harder and better.
But that doesn't mean that these individuals named weren't better at their positions than any others who played it.
And then there is a distinction within the distinction: Gene Hickerson, all-time great guard who makes the all-time depth chart of any team he would have played on, but, at his size, could not play in the current NFL.
Jim Brown, on the hand ... who you say would be "serviceable" ... could.
Last year's leading rusher, DeMarco Murray, is 6'0 217 and runs a 4.45 40
Jim Brown 6'2, 232 lbs, ran a sub 4.5 40
Now it you put Brown in his prime, top-conditioned shape, and put him on the 2014 Cowboys, you think he could be "serviceable", but no DeMarco Murray?
Terrance West 5'10, 225 lbs. 4.54 40 time ... smaller and slower than Brown
Isiah Crowell, 5'11, 224 lbs 4.53 40 time ... smaller and slower than Brown.
Are you saying if Jim Brown came back in his prime he couldn't beat out these running backs that he is bigger and faster than?
Zombo
Linemen are bigger now....for sure....but that is because they eat and train to be that big. Many of them, after football drop a lot of that weight. That didn't happen in years past.
Offensive skill players are different:
As you noted above, JB was bigger than his counterparts today. (and if they would have measured speed strength he probably would have had the advantage there as well.)
Compare the receivers and QBs:
Paul Warfield 6'0 188
Gary Collins 6'5 220
Milt Morin 6'4 240
Frank Ryan 6'3 200
-------------------------
Andrew Hawkins 5'7 180
Taylor Gabriel 5'8 167.....you think Warfield could hold his own with these guys?
Jordan Cameron 6'5 245...not much off Morin
Brian Hoyer 6'2 215
Josh McCown 6'4 213
I don't see how Frank Ryan's measurables at all take a back seat here. And intellect....the guy is a PhD in mathematics.
Hell, the guys on the Browns in the 40s measure up to today:
Dante Lavelli 6'0 199
Mac Speedie 6'3 213
Marion Motley 6'1 238
As the song went: we could use a man like Herbert Hoover, Paul Warfield, Gary Collins, Marion Motley again.
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And see this about the 40 time:
According to Rich Eisen of the NFL Network (via the Patriots' official blog), the 40-yard dash came about when former Cleveland Browns head coach Paul Brown wanted his fastest players to cover punts.
This makes sense, as a traditional punt can be expected to travel anywhere from 40 to 50 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. Timing a player in that interval would have allowed Brown to find the fastest players to cover on special teams.
At one time, the 40-yard dash was only important to certain positions.Cornerbacks, wide receivers and running backs have always needed to be faster than the rest, and they therefore originally saw the most pressure to perform well in the event. But slowly, the importance of speed has grown to all positions.
How fast can a pulling offensive guard get to the corner?
How long will it take a big middle linebacker to cover sideline to sideline?
Over a 10-yard interval, how fast is a defensive end going to get upfield?
Can this tight end expose the seam of a defense with speed?
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By your way of thinking....below average players league wide in today's game should be put on an All time Greats team over Hall of Fame players that played in the past.
Is that how you roll?
Then I can only assume that you think that Pele would be a bench warmer at best at soccer.....since you are such a soccer fag.
Jim Brown would be better right here right now than either Adrian Peterson or DeMarcus Murray.
I agree with Woody.
Joe Greene, the largest Steeler on the roster for the majority of the 70's played at 275.
Today Joe Green would get punked playing D tackle.
The late 80's Browns would beat that Steeler team. They were bigger, faster and stronger.
The absolute worst team the Browns put on the field since 1999 would destroy the 64 Browns.
An yes, I too believe Jim Brown would be perhaps be a serviceable back today, not the stud he was in the 60's.
Time to get real Gip. I'm guessing you are very old. You witnessed the Browns greatness and are vicariously living through them .. and just can't let go.
Could you imagine if Barry Sanders could go back in time and play in the 50's and 60's....holy fuck, he'd crush JB's record.
He'd play complete game without even getting dirty by juking the fuck out of those slow and undersized defenders by todays standards.
Eh, I shouldn't say he wouldn't get dirty. He'd get tackled eventually lol.
Stuart said:
I agree with Woody.
Joe Greene, the largest Steeler on the roster for the majority of the 70's played at 275.
Today Joe Green would get punked playing D tackle.
The late 80's Browns would beat that Steeler team. They were bigger, faster and stronger.
The absolute worst team the Browns put on the field since 1999 would destroy the 64 Browns.
An yes, I too believe Jim Brown would be perhaps be a serviceable back today, not the stud he was in the 60's.
Time to get real Gip. I'm guessing you are very old. You witnessed the Browns greatness and are vicariously living through them .. and just can't let go.
Could you imagine if Barry Sanders could go back in time and play in the 50's and 60's....holy fuck, he'd crush JB's record.
He'd play complete game without even getting dirty by juking the fuck out of those slow and undersized defenders by todays standards.
Eh, I shouldn't say he wouldn't get dirty. He'd get tackled eventually lol.
When you get right down to it, who does Barry Sanders' own father think is the better RB between Barry and Jim Brown? I try not to get too caught up in the FB vrs RB thing regarding Jimmy Brown because he didn't block. Why would we want Brown blocking for a less talented player to carry the ball anyway? That wouldn't make any sense. He never missed a game in his entire career. Okay, so 10-20 years later marked the days of Franco Harris running 4.8 forties and running out of bounds. Yipee! Jim Brown would have started there as easy as breathing. Next? We have a Bus that comes up with flat tires when it's time to ask for at least 4 yards per carry or more. Brown would have easily started over Bettis.
As for the eras, can you imagine doing this for Otto Graham? Otto, you're going to be throwing the ball inside a dome for at least half the regular season and throughout our homefield advantage in the playoffs. No wind, no ice, no mud, no wet footballs - just a dry climate at about 72 degrees. Even better Otto, if anyone so much as touches any of your WRs downfield - they're gonna get flagged. In conclusion, you're going to get all of today's perks that favor the passing games to promote more scoring. Does anyone REALLY think this would be more difficult for Otto?
Now let's flip the scenario to an AFC Championship Game where NE hosted a Peyton Manning led Indy Colt team OUTDOORS. In this game, Peyton had to play QB the way it used to be played all 10 seasons Otto was leading his team to Pro Football Championship Games every single year (and winning 7 of them). His WRs could get mugged and mauled anywhere on the field without penalty flags. As the day would play out - it snowed, the ball got slippery and Manning got sacked more than he got sacked in any game all year. And his offense ended the day with 3 points while NE scored 23. Did Peyton look like the kind of guy that could have handled playing QB when Otto played? If so, why did he and his head coach take their heated protest to the top of the league? Because the 3 points to his name showed us how overwhelming it was.
Today's athletes may be bigger, faster and stronger in many cases; but the injury volumes are getting bigger faster... Not for nothing, but the tackling in Cleveland since 1999 hasn't been anything to brag about throughout this superior fitness era. We haven't had a RB here since Greg Pruitt that can turn a 4 yard gain into a 70 yard TD run so I'm not really seeing the magic of every new decade blessing us with better gears at RB.
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