7 Round Mock ... 2 WR's ?
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I dont know how to rate it, but Id say the easiest position to fill on a team might be WR.....(maybe RB)......good ones are very plentiful and most teams have at least one or 2......compared to some other harder to fill positions like QB, CB, OT or OLB.....
so, kinda like the Farmer thought process, your odds of getting a good one mid to late round are so much better than most other positions.....makes it hard to waste an early pick on a position that produces 5-10 quality players a year.....
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I dont know how to rate it, but Id say the easiest position to fill on a team might be WR.....(maybe RB)......good ones are very plentiful and most teams have at least one or 2......compared to some other harder to fill positions like QB, CB, OT or OLB.....
so, kinda like the Farmer thought process, your odds of getting a good one mid to late round are so much better than most other positions.....makes it hard to waste an early pick on a position that produces 5-10 quality players a year.....
I dont know how to rate it, but Id say the easiest position to fill on a team might be WR.....(maybe RB)......good ones are very plentiful and most teams have at least one or 2......compared to some other harder to fill positions like QB, CB, OT or OLB.....
so, kinda like the Farmer thought process, your odds of getting a good one mid to late round are so much better than most other positions.....makes it hard to waste an early pick on a position that produces 5-10 quality players a year.....
While true - I just haven't seen a reliable mid round WR we've drafted since Brian Brennan in the 4th round way back in the 80s (over 30 years ago). That being the case Mud, the front offices we've had to count on here haven't really given me any reason to be confident that this pertains to Cleveland.
I think there will be a lot of slot types available throughout the draft; but we already have Hawkins and Gabriel in roles where we have to keep them off the line of scrimmage especially against bigger corners. I LIKE our FA WRs; but I still don't see any resumes with a lot of TD receptions on them. The lack of ideal TE prospects for our current situation at that position even makes it more urgent to add a big WR to our red zone offense that scores a lot of TDs and ypc on the resume. If we can put that on the other side of formation of Bowe - Bowe's TD reception volume should be a lot higher than 0 this year. Just my opinion though...
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I dont know how to rate it, but Id say the easiest position to fill on a team might be WR.....(maybe RB)......good ones are very plentiful and most teams have at least one or 2......compared to some other harder to fill positions like QB, CB, OT or OLB.....
so, kinda like the Farmer thought process, your odds of getting a good one mid to late round are so much better than most other positions.....makes it hard to waste an early pick on a position that produces 5-10 quality players a year.....
While true - I just haven't seen a reliable mid round WR we've drafted since Brian Brennan in the 4th round way back in the 80s (over 30 years ago). That being the case Mud, the front offices we've had to count on here haven't really given me any reason to be confident that this pertains to Cleveland.
I think there will be a lot of slot types available throughout the draft; but we already have Hawkins and Gabriel in roles where we have to keep them off the line of scrimmage especially against bigger corners. I LIKE our FA WRs; but I still don't see any resumes with a lot of TD receptions on them. The lack of ideal TE prospects for our current situation at that position even makes it more urgent to add a big WR to our red zone offense that scores a lot of TDs and ypc on the resume. If we can put that on the other side of formation of Bowe - Bowe's TD reception volume should be a lot higher than 0 this year. Just my opinion though...
While true - I just haven't seen a reliable mid round WR we've drafted since Brian Brennan in the 4th round way back in the 80s
well you are talking about former regimes and their draft skills.
although it's still a very small sample size, i'll put farmer's skills vs. any of those former GMs any day......
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I dont know how to rate it, but Id say the easiest position to fill on a team might be WR.....(maybe RB)......good ones are very plentiful and most teams have at least one or 2......compared to some other harder to fill positions like QB, CB, OT or OLB.....
so, kinda like the Farmer thought process, your odds of getting a good one mid to late round are so much better than most other positions.....makes it hard to waste an early pick on a position that produces 5-10 quality players a year.....
While true - I just haven't seen a reliable mid round WR we've drafted since Brian Brennan in the 4th round way back in the 80s (over 30 years ago). That being the case Mud, the front offices we've had to count on here haven't really given me any reason to be confident that this pertains to Cleveland.
I think there will be a lot of slot types available throughout the draft; but we already have Hawkins and Gabriel in roles where we have to keep them off the line of scrimmage especially against bigger corners. I LIKE our FA WRs; but I still don't see any resumes with a lot of TD receptions on them. The lack of ideal TE prospects for our current situation at that position even makes it more urgent to add a big WR to our red zone offense that scores a lot of TDs and ypc on the resume. If we can put that on the other side of formation of Bowe - Bowe's TD reception volume should be a lot higher than 0 this year. Just my opinion though...
1) While true - I just haven't seen a reliable mid round WR we've drafted since Brian Brennan in the 4th round way back in the 80s
2) I think there will be a lot of slot types available throughout the draft; but we already have Hawkins and Gabriel
3) our current situation at that position even makes it more urgent to add a big WR to our red zone offense that scores a lot of TDs and ypc on the resume.
1)...the truth is we haven't score a good receiver in the 1st round and almost ALL of our successful WR's came 2nd round or later....
In the last 30 years, the only 2 firsts that even bumped the scale were Derrick Alexander and Braylon Edwards, while our 2nd round and later picks produced Dennis Northcutt(2), Brian Brennan(4), Reggie Langhorne(7), Webster Slaughter(2), Andre Johnson(2), Josh Gordon(2), Travis Benjiman(3).......
2) I dont think people realize how good Gabriel was and can be. You call him a slot receiver and say we need guys with good YAC, yet he was ranked #4 in the entire league for YAC and 8th in the entire league for YPC.....soooo......slot?
And, of ALL the rookie WR's drafted in 2014....Gabriel was #1 for YPC and YAC.....#1.. #1.. #1
I will add that Hawkins(a true slot) ranked 13th in the league for YAC.....SO WE HAVE 2 OF THE TOP 13 RECEIVERS WHEN IT COMES TO YAC........note: Gabriel also finished as the overall #4 rated rookie WR this season, ranking him ahead of most of that "unbelievably great WR draft class of 2014"......and that includes a better rating than Sammy Watkins.....Landry, Beckham and Evans were the only rookie WR's with a higher rating....
So, I dont see the urgency at WR that others see.....our guys produce the same catch percentages, with higher YAC and higher YPC than any other team.....where is the deficiency?
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While true - I just haven't seen a reliable mid round WR we've drafted since Brian Brennan in the 4th round way back in the 80s
well you are talking about former regimes and their draft skills.
although it's still a very small sample size, i'll put farmer's skills vs. any of those former GMs any day......
well you are talking about former regimes and their draft skills.
although it's still a very small sample size, i'll put farmer's skills vs. any of those former GMs any day......
True. And I share your pov about Farmer. I was impressed with his plan last draft to strengthen our running game. I could easily see he wanted to upgrade various spots of coverage weaknesses via the draft and FA. Some worried about losing a Pro Bowl Safety like Ward; BUT adding the skills of Whitner back there allowed our other Safety (Gipson) to perform like a Pro Bowl talent. Adding Dansby's experience and 1st step instinct to our hook zones was a massive upgrade to 2013. My favorite draft day highlights of Kirksey were watching how quickly closed and delivered hits on people in coverage. Great plan and I think he brought us all the right help.
2014 was as good of an offseason as we needed. When we got to 6-3, the national media was suddenly loving our story. When the shit hit the fan, they also couldn't wait to predict more apocalypse. This team still played hard and had second leads on playoff teams down the stretch despite the injury volume reaching FUBAR for a team coming off only 4 wins.
This year's plan if we look at need and where we're at right now should be front 7 depth (edge rush and dline in particular) + WR (only 1) + oline depth + QB + Safety + TE + Kicker (Not sure I've ever typed that before). In this conversation, I just want people to see if we draft one of the top rated WRs at #19 - it shouldn't prevent us from adding Shelton before that and getting all the help we need via our final 8 picks. I don't want to roll the dice later when we can be adding one of the highest rated Guards or looking to someone like Petty in rounds 2 or 3.
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Im gonna fight to the death on us drafting an OLB early......simply because we dont have one.......(Sheard is gone, remember?)
So, while I like the idea of a big receiver.... I cant put WR ahead of OL, DL and OLB, which are all glaring needs, while WR is not......could use an upgrade, but isnt nearly as deficient as LB - DL - OL - QB.....
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1) While true - I just haven't seen a reliable mid round WR we've drafted since Brian Brennan in the 4th round way back in the 80s
2) I think there will be a lot of slot types available throughout the draft; but we already have Hawkins and Gabriel
3) our current situation at that position even makes it more urgent to add a big WR to our red zone offense that scores a lot of TDs and ypc on the resume.
1)...the truth is we haven't score a good receiver in the 1st round and almost ALL of our successful WR's came 2nd round or later....
In the last 30 years, the only 2 firsts that even bumped the scale were Derrick Alexander and Braylon Edwards, while our 2nd round and later picks produced Dennis Northcutt(2), Brian Brennan(4), Reggie Langhorne(7), Webster Slaughter(2), Andre Johnson(2), Josh Gordon(2), Travis Benjiman(3).......
2) I dont think people realize how good Gabriel was and can be. You call him a slot receiver and say we need guys with good YAC, yet he was ranked #4 in the entire league for YAC and 8th in the entire league for YPC.....soooo......slot?
And, of ALL the rookie WR's drafted in 2014....Gabriel was #1 for YPC and YAC.....#1.. #1.. #1
I will add that Hawkins(a true slot) ranked 13th in the league for YAC.....SO WE HAVE 2 OF THE TOP 13 RECEIVERS WHEN IT COMES TO YAC........note: Gabriel also finished as the overall #4 rated rookie WR this season, ranking him ahead of most of that "unbelievably great WR draft class of 2014"......and that includes a better rating than Sammy Watkins.....Landry, Beckham and Evans were the only rookie WR's with a higher rating....
So, I dont see the urgency at WR that others see.....our guys produce the same catch percentages, with higher YAC and higher YPC than any other team.....where is the deficiency?
1)...the truth is we haven't score a good receiver in the 1st round and almost ALL of our successful WR's came 2nd round or later....
In the last 30 years, the only 2 firsts that even bumped the scale were Derrick Alexander and Braylon Edwards, while our 2nd round and later picks produced Dennis Northcutt(2), Brian Brennan(4), Reggie Langhorne(7), Webster Slaughter(2), Andre Johnson(2), Josh Gordon(2), Travis Benjiman(3).......
2) I dont think people realize how good Gabriel was and can be. You call him a slot receiver and say we need guys with good YAC, yet he was ranked #4 in the entire league for YAC and 8th in the entire league for YPC.....soooo......slot?
I will add that Hawkins(a true slot) ranked 13th in the league for YAC.....SO WE HAVE 2 OF THE TOP 13 RECEIVERS WHEN IT COMES TO YAC........note: Gabriel also finished as the overall #4 rated rookie WR this season, ranking him ahead of most of that "unbelievably great WR draft class of 2014"......and that includes a better rating than Sammy Watkins.....Landry, Beckham and Evans were the only rookie WR's with a higher rating....
So, I dont see the urgency at WR that others see.....our guys produce the same catch percentages, with higher YAC and higher YPC than any other team.....where is the deficiency?
Damn, you could talk me into buying quick sand. Thanks for the uplifting #2 above. When I say slot type - I mean it in a sense where we can't always put him on the line of scrimmage. I know a few underthrows cost both him and Hawkins some TDs; BUT I'd still like to see somebody that can turn a short reception into a long TD reception full of YAC or a big dude with a huge wing span catching a TD pass in traffic. When the QB position here struggled to find targets or with his accuracy throwing on the run - sometimes that taller target with a much bigger wing span can help that considerably IMO (if he's not wasted or cared enough to run the right route or make the right adjustment).
Our lack of ideal red zone targets put a lot on our running game last year IMO to the extent where teams started to stop our 1 dimensional football enough for people to miss Phil Dawson and range.
I've only seen us draft 1 WR in round 1 since we got our team back in 1999. I join you in how disappointed he left us. Having said that, when he got to the top of his game - he scored 16 TDs in that 2007 season when our other red zone targets included former first round WR Joe Jurevicius and TE KWII. They also combined for a good volume of first down receptions as well. The running game was a big help because teams couldn't over-focus on 1 dimension. The beneficiary of it all was a journey-man QB who threw 29 TD passes while the legs of Lewis that were pronounced dead by his last time were revived. We won 10 games that year. I bring this up because we're looking to a QB at the end of an up and down journey this year. The last time we won over 10 games plus a playoff game was one of the years Derrick Alexander was in our WR Corps and we won 11 games. Woody prolly loved that team because we had Everitt at Center and Leroy Hoard running his way into a Pro Bowl aside from Derrick Alexander.
When we get right down to round 1 tragedies - the only first round QB here of my lifetime we got right was in a supplemental draft. Otherwise, we've allowed other teams behind us to draft guys like Aaron Rodgers and Ben Rapen in round 1. Can you imagine trading down while adding picks to land Aaron Rodgers? Other years, we reached on Weeden or other guys when later rounds had Russell Wilson or Nick Foles waiting for the right patient takers where they were projected.
If White, Parker and Cooper are off the board by #19 - I'm fine with drafting a WR later. If we added picks to trade back from 19 to somewhere in the back quarter of round 1 - that would be the area I'd have intrigue for Perriman as well as other positions. I didn't see us putting Gabriel on the field very often in red zone opportunities so this offers us something we didn't have.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Im gonna fight to the death on us drafting an OLB early......simply because we dont have one.......(Sheard is gone, remember?)
So, while I like the idea of a big receiver.... I cant put WR ahead of OL, DL and OLB, which are all glaring needs, while WR is not......could use an upgrade, but isnt nearly as deficient as LB - DL - OL - QB.....
Im gonna fight to the death on us drafting an OLB early......simply because we dont have one.......(Sheard is gone, remember?)
So, while I like the idea of a big receiver.... I cant put WR ahead of OL, DL and OLB, which are all glaring needs, while WR is not......could use an upgrade, but isnt nearly as deficient as LB - DL - OL - QB.....
That's fine Mud. The key here is you show me exactly where you are coming from with the rationale behind it. If we run out of my faves that I specified in my last response, I'll be right there with you with wanting that edge rusher at #19 instead of in round 2.
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Im gonna fight to the death on us drafting an OLB early......simply because we dont have one.......(Sheard is gone, remember?)
So, while I like the idea of a big receiver.... I cant put WR ahead of OL, DL and OLB, which are all glaring needs, while WR is not......could use an upgrade, but isnt nearly as deficient as LB - DL - OL - QB.....
Im gonna fight to the death on us drafting an OLB early......simply because we dont have one.......(Sheard is gone, remember?)
So, while I like the idea of a big receiver.... I cant put WR ahead of OL, DL and OLB, which are all glaring needs, while WR is not......could use an upgrade, but isnt nearly as deficient as LB - DL - OL - QB.....
We have every bit the OLB group that was had last year. I don't think you realize just how terrible Sheard was in space. He wasn't in to cover any TE's or track the back much. When Sheard was in, he was rushing the passer. Monty can do that probably just as well from a 2 point stance. Hell, Scott Solomon showing spark late in the year means this group is ahead of where it was this time last year. Now, can we draft an OLB that not only has fluid movement in space but can get after the QB? Yep. But it certainly shouldn't be anyone to 'replace' Sheard. If anything it would be to push and or start over Mingo and Solomon.
Nate Orchard... come on down!
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Im gonna fight to the death on us drafting an OLB early......simply because we dont have one.......(Sheard is gone, remember?)
So, while I like the idea of a big receiver.... I cant put WR ahead of OL, DL and OLB, which are all glaring needs, while WR is not......could use an upgrade, but isnt nearly as deficient as LB - DL - OL - QB.....
We have every bit the OLB group that was had last year. I don't think you realize just how terrible Sheard was in space. He wasn't in to cover any TE's or track the back much. When Sheard was in, he was rushing the passer. Monty can do that probably just as well from a 2 point stance. Hell, Scott Solomon showing spark late in the year means this group is ahead of where it was this time last year. Now, can we draft an OLB that not only has fluid movement in space but can get after the QB? Yep. But it certainly shouldn't be anyone to 'replace' Sheard. If anything it would be to push and or start over Mingo and Solomon.
Nate Orchard... come on down!
We have every bit the OLB group that was had last year. I don't think you realize just how terrible Sheard was in space. He wasn't in to cover any TE's or track the back much. When Sheard was in, he was rushing the passer. Monty can do that probably just as well from a 2 point stance. Hell, Scott Solomon showing spark late in the year means this group is ahead of where it was this time last year. Now, can we draft an OLB that not only has fluid movement in space but can get after the QB? Yep. But it certainly shouldn't be anyone to 'replace' Sheard. If anything it would be to push and or start over Mingo and Solomon.
Nate Orchard... come on down!
I could debate that....not saying Sheard was great, but he started ahead of Mingo and was our teams #1 run stopper(by far).....which also happens to be our weakness.....and, although he did have a low sack number, he was top 20 in the league in QB hurries ....which fed some sacks to Kruger and some INT's to our DB's......he also was our teams surest tackler(with the fewest misses), so to me, Sheard was pretty solid.....
I guess we can hope AB or Solomon fill the void, but that is purely hope and speculation that AB can or will switch positions and perform at a high level.....no one knows..
Solomon had one good game for us, but was absolutely terrible when he played for the Falcons.....so, last year, he played 6 bad games and one good game(they cut him for a reason)......but we can certainly hope.....
So, while I see what you're saying with there being candidates for OLB, I cannot accept that it isn't one of our highest need positions.....and definitely a higher need than WR......
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1)...the truth is we haven't score a good receiver in the 1st round and almost ALL of our successful WR's came 2nd round or later....
In the last 30 years, the only 2 firsts that even bumped the scale were Derrick Alexander and Braylon Edwards, while our 2nd round and later picks produced Dennis Northcutt(2), Brian Brennan(4), Reggie Langhorne(7), Webster Slaughter(2), Andre Johnson(2), Josh Gordon(2), Travis Benjiman(3).......
2) I dont think people realize how good Gabriel was and can be. You call him a slot receiver and say we need guys with good YAC, yet he was ranked #4 in the entire league for YAC and 8th in the entire league for YPC.....soooo......slot?
I will add that Hawkins(a true slot) ranked 13th in the league for YAC.....SO WE HAVE 2 OF THE TOP 13 RECEIVERS WHEN IT COMES TO YAC........note: Gabriel also finished as the overall #4 rated rookie WR this season, ranking him ahead of most of that "unbelievably great WR draft class of 2014"......and that includes a better rating than Sammy Watkins.....Landry, Beckham and Evans were the only rookie WR's with a higher rating....
So, I dont see the urgency at WR that others see.....our guys produce the same catch percentages, with higher YAC and higher YPC than any other team.....where is the deficiency?
Damn, you could talk me into buying quick sand. Thanks for the uplifting #2 above. When I say slot type - I mean it in a sense where we can't always put him on the line of scrimmage. I know a few underthrows cost both him and Hawkins some TDs; BUT I'd still like to see somebody that can turn a short reception into a long TD reception full of YAC or a big dude with a huge wing span catching a TD pass in traffic. When the QB position here struggled to find targets or with his accuracy throwing on the run - sometimes that taller target with a much bigger wing span can help that considerably IMO (if he's not wasted or cared enough to run the right route or make the right adjustment).
Our lack of ideal red zone targets put a lot on our running game last year IMO to the extent where teams started to stop our 1 dimensional football enough for people to miss Phil Dawson and range.
I've only seen us draft 1 WR in round 1 since we got our team back in 1999. I join you in how disappointed he left us. Having said that, when he got to the top of his game - he scored 16 TDs in that 2007 season when our other red zone targets included former first round WR Joe Jurevicius and TE KWII. They also combined for a good volume of first down receptions as well. The running game was a big help because teams couldn't over-focus on 1 dimension. The beneficiary of it all was a journey-man QB who threw 29 TD passes while the legs of Lewis that were pronounced dead by his last time were revived. We won 10 games that year. I bring this up because we're looking to a QB at the end of an up and down journey this year. The last time we won over 10 games plus a playoff game was one of the years Derrick Alexander was in our WR Corps and we won 11 games. Woody prolly loved that team because we had Everitt at Center and Leroy Hoard running his way into a Pro Bowl aside from Derrick Alexander.
When we get right down to round 1 tragedies - the only first round QB here of my lifetime we got right was in a supplemental draft. Otherwise, we've allowed other teams behind us to draft guys like Aaron Rodgers and Ben Rapen in round 1. Can you imagine trading down while adding picks to land Aaron Rodgers? Other years, we reached on Weeden or other guys when later rounds had Russell Wilson or Nick Foles waiting for the right patient takers where they were projected.
If White, Parker and Cooper are off the board by #19 - I'm fine with drafting a WR later. If we added picks to trade back from 19 to somewhere in the back quarter of round 1 - that would be the area I'd have intrigue for Perriman as well as other positions. I didn't see us putting Gabriel on the field very often in red zone opportunities so this offers us something we didn't have.
BUT I'd still like to see somebody that can turn a short reception into a long TD reception full of YAC or a big dude with a huge wing span catching a TD pass in traffic. When the QB position here struggled to find targets or with his accuracy throwing on the run - sometimes that taller target with a much bigger wing span can help that considerably IMO (if he's not wasted or cared enough to run the right route or make the right adjustment).
Im with you on wanting the BIG tall strong receiver .....thats the only kind I would look at.....and White, Parker and Perriman look like the only ones to fit that mold this year.....
Though I do think Gabriel brings the long ball - big strike potential that can stretch the field.......Bowe and/or Hartline "may" give us that big red zone guy you're talking about.....and, maybe, a new TE to add to that mix......but Im game to wait another year to see what these 3 put up, before I start drafting WR's over our other needs.........
The one scenario that would be spectacular is if we used #19 to draft, say Parker, who EXPLODES and is totally amazing........ cause thats the pick we got for Sammy...
THAT would taste sweet......especially when Gilbert starts playing lights out .......
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