Rucker/Hubbard
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Savage trades leave Browns lacking draft choices
By Steve Doerschuk
CantonRep.com staff report
Posted Mar 11, 2009 @ 07:53 PM
Maybe this is the year Martin Rucker and Paul Hubbard break through.
If not, Eric Mangini may rue the day Phil Savage traded up to draft those two pass catchers who, as 2008 rookies, combined to give the Browns two catches for 17 yards.
As it appears now, both trades could turn into rip-offs.
During last April’s draft, while waiting through three rounds in which the Browns had no picks, Savage grew eager to make what splash he could.
Rucker was still on the board in Round 4. Savage seized upon a chance to get the Missouri tight end who had caught 84 passes in 2007.
Savage sent Dallas a third-round pick in 2009 in exchange for a fourth-round pick. He spent the pick on Rucker.
Hubbard, a track star with a big body, was still on the board in Round 6. He didn’t have big stats at Wisconsin, but he was a confident fellow who fancied himself as talented as Braylon Edwards.
To get the Round 6 rights to Hubbard, Savage had to ship a fifth-round pick in 2009 to the Eagles.
At the end of his day of trading, Savage said:
“I just felt like we put so much time and energy in to the second day of the draft, we might as well strike while the iron is hot.”
The Browns went cold. Savage is gone, but the bill is still due.
The price for Rucker, a No. 111 overall pick, is a No. 69 overall selection, dealt to Dallas.
The price for Hubbard, the 25th pick of last year’s sixth round, is the fifth pick of this year’s fifth round, forked over to Philadelphia.
With Kellen Winslow gone and the Browns’ wide receiver corps coming off an awful year, there’s still a chance Rucker and Hubbard could vindicate the trades, if they develop.
Meanwhile, a seventh-round pick was basically thrown away. Faced with a corrnerback shortage last summer, Savage traded a 2009 Round 7 pick to the Dolphins for cornerback Travis Daniels. Daniels was a nonentity for the 2008 Browns and Tuesday signed with the Chiefs.
Browns’ draft picks
Round 1 No. 5 overall
Round 2 No. 36 overall and No. 50 overall (from Tampa Bay).
Round 3 Pick traded to Dallas, No. 69 overall.
Round 4 Fourth pick*.
Round 5 Pick traded to Philadelphia*.
Round 6 Fourth pick*.
Round 7 Pick traded to Miami*.
* — exact number to be determined when the NFL assigns compensatory picks.
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I think we knew this to be the case when the trades occurred. In my mind, nothing has changed except that KWII is gone. We didn't expect Hubbard to see the field last year, and he didn't. We didnt expect Rucker to see much playing time, and he didn't.
The fact that our picks ended up being so high makes those picks last season marginally more expensive, but we now have two guys that we had a 3rd and 5th round grade on with a year of experience under their belts. Like most second day picks, these will be almost impossible to judge for another year or two at least.
If anything, seeing KWII go makes the Rucker pick look better. And having him on the roster might have made it possible for us to pick up that 2nd rounder from TB instead of having to hold on to a guy we wanted to trade.
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I have faith in Rucker. 6-4 260...he is a good target. He now has a year under his belt to watch and learn (while practicing obviously). Hopefully, his blocking and pick up skills have improved to go along with his good hands. He did a few nice things in preseason.
As for Hubbard. I'm not sure. Hopeful he learns and progresses too. To me, these picks aren't wasted yet. This year is when we should be able to see something (at least) out of them.
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Rucker may be fail sauce in mangini's system due to so so blocking and lackluster blitz pickup skillz...
Hubbard (butterfingers#2)has blazing speed and if he can learn to catch the ball and run effective disciplined routes could potentially develop into an extremely good WR perhaps better than butterfingers #1...
Im hoping mankok gives both these guys a shot..
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He drafted Dustin Keller who was only an adequate blocker. Rucker is 2 inches taller and 20 lbs bigger. A guy as athletic and solid as him should be able to get better at picking up the blitz and blocking. He wasn't really asked to do it as often in college. He has the size and quickness to learn...
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" if he can learn to catch the ball "
this has to be "consistently" the most ridiculous arguement on this board...... you can catch or you can't....you can't coach em' up on this point. I've heard it for years....if he's iffy to start he'll be iffy his whole career. I just doesn't change....ever!
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" if he can learn to catch the ball "
this has to be "consistently" the most ridiculous arguement on this board...... you can catch or you can't....you can't coach em' up on this point. I've heard it for years....if he's iffy to start he'll be iffy his whole career. I just doesn't change....ever!
" if he can learn to catch the ball "
this has to be "consistently" the most ridiculous arguement on this board...... you can catch or you can't....you can't coach em' up on this point. I've heard it for years....if he's iffy to start he'll be iffy his whole career. I just doesn't change....ever!
Thats not true, some guys are natural ball catchers but you can teach anybody to catch a ball. Practice makes perfect in any walk of life
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" if he can learn to catch the ball "
this has to be "consistently" the most ridiculous arguement on this board...... you can catch or you can't....you can't coach em' up on this point. I've heard it for years....if he's iffy to start he'll be iffy his whole career. I just doesn't change....ever!
" if he can learn to catch the ball "
this has to be "consistently" the most ridiculous arguement on this board...... you can catch or you can't....you can't coach em' up on this point. I've heard it for years....if he's iffy to start he'll be iffy his whole career. I just doesn't change....ever!
Thats not even close to true. There are a lot of factors (which you can improve on) involved in catching footballs.
That I can think of you have:
Eye speed and focus, improvable by doing laser exercises.
Hand-eye coordination, can be improved upon with many drills involving tennis balls ect.
Hand strength, also can be improved upon.
Logically, if you can improve upon the mechanics of catching, you will become better at catching. If you say otherwise you're just stubborn.
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Please.... thrill me with your acumen....give me an example of someone who had the dropsies in college that became a great dependable pro?
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Please.... thrill me with your acumen....give me an example of someone who had the dropsies in college that became a great dependable pro?
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Please.... thrill me with your acumen....give me an example of someone who had the dropsies in college that became a great dependable pro?
Please.... thrill me with your acumen....give me an example of someone who had the dropsies in college that became a great dependable pro?
I can make ridiculous requests too, give me an example of a center who weighed less than 300lbs in college but is now over 320lbs and has made 3 pro-bowls.
So what you're saying is by the time you hit physical maturity, you are physically unable to improve your catching ability?
How much is the weed you buy?
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" if he can learn to catch the ball "
this has to be "consistently" the most ridiculous arguement on this board...... you can catch or you can't....you can't coach em' up on this point. I've heard it for years....if he's iffy to start he'll be iffy his whole career. I just doesn't change....ever!
" if he can learn to catch the ball "
this has to be "consistently" the most ridiculous arguement on this board...... you can catch or you can't....you can't coach em' up on this point. I've heard it for years....if he's iffy to start he'll be iffy his whole career. I just doesn't change....ever!
I hope you are referring to Hubbard and not Rucker. Rucker has hands and has never had a problem catching the ball. IMO he will end up a very good TE.
Hubbard is a different story. He has size and decent speed but catches the ball with his body instead of his hands. When he catches the ball with his hands (same with Edwards) he does a good job. He seems to struggle with confidence and concentration much like Edwards.
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What happened in last years draft that has a great impact on this years draft is the fact that Savage let his ego get in the way of common sense. Sometimes when you hear enough people say that you are an expert in evaluating talent and the draft, you start believing your press clippings too much.
Savage fell into the trap of thinking he knew more then everybody else and wanted to show he could make something out of nothing. His statement where he said something like "we did all that work so we wanted to make some moves" shows it was more about his ego then about the picks. He thought he put in a lot of work and had a few guys marked as good prospects and didn't want them to get away. Even he has to know that anything from round 4 on is a crapshot. There's a reason they are still on the board. Most of those guys have baggage. (Bell's injury, Rucker who played a slot more then TE and Hubbard who had all the physical skill but wasn't consistant catching the ball). They all have bagage, some may work out but most will miss.
The bottom line is he screwed us for this year because he thought he was better then he was. That was predicated on over evaluating the talent this team had and thinking they were a top NFL team that wouldn't have a lot of turnover.
Sad, but.............................................
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" if he can learn to catch the ball "
this has to be "consistently" the most ridiculous arguement on this board...... you can catch or you can't....you can't coach em' up on this point. I've heard it for years....if he's iffy to start he'll be iffy his whole career. I just doesn't change....ever!
I hope you are referring to Hubbard and not Rucker. Rucker has hands and has never had a problem catching the ball. IMO he will end up a very good TE.
Hubbard is a different story. He has size and decent speed but catches the ball with his body instead of his hands. When he catches the ball with his hands (same with Edwards) he does a good job. He seems to struggle with confidence and concentration much like Edwards.
I hope you are referring to Hubbard and not Rucker. Rucker has hands and has never had a problem catching the ball. IMO he will end up a very good TE.
Hubbard is a different story. He has size and decent speed but catches the ball with his body instead of his hands. When he catches the ball with his hands (same with Edwards) he does a good job. He seems to struggle with confidence and concentration much like Edwards.
What else is he going to catch with....ha ha ha ridiculous
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Please.... thrill me with your acumen....give me an example of someone who had the dropsies in college that became a great dependable pro?
I can make ridiculous requests too, give me an example of a center who weighed less than 300lbs in college but is now over 320lbs and has made 3 pro-bowls.
So what you're saying is by the time you hit physical maturity, you are physically unable to improve your catching ability?
How much is the weed you buy?
AdaM said:
I can make ridiculous requests too, give me an example of a center who weighed less than 300lbs in college but is now over 320lbs and has made 3 pro-bowls.So what you're saying is by the time you hit physical maturity, you are physically unable to improve your catching ability?
How much is the weed you buy?
Good comparison....yikes. Just like a QB... you have touch or you don't! You can catch or you can't....you guys are funny.
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AdaM said:
I can make ridiculous requests too, give me an example of a center who weighed less than 300lbs in college but is now over 320lbs and has made 3 pro-bowls.So what you're saying is by the time you hit physical maturity, you are physically unable to improve your catching ability?
How much is the weed you buy?
Good comparison....yikes. Just like a QB... you have touch or you don't! You can catch or you can't....you guys are funny.
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You obviously didn't make the debate team...
you can't teach someone to catch after the age of 8! You got it or you don't.
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Practice makes perfect!
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