Why u no WR?
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I agree Mud, the only issue with the current Browns is there is no threat. Doesn't have to be a name brand but a 6'3 215lb with 4.4 speed would really help. I like Mayle's size but 4.67 isn't enough speed. Jalen Strong was available at a reasonable position.
We have guys with speed....Hawkins/Benjamin.
But speed isn't the absolute key ingredient to making a WR....unless we are talking about Mac Speedie.
Look at the list of HOF WRs. Except for Bob Hayes, few of them were the speediest cats around.
Having Glue Finger (like Lavelli
) is every bit as important. And crisp route running....like Warfield...is every bit as important.And putting yourself into the right position ....like Gary Collins, and Cris Carter is every bit the crucial element as well.
So, to me....having great hands, running crisp routes, knowing how to position yourself for the catch are probably more essential than speed.
If this guy comes here and breaks Gary Collins record for career TD passes, we will all forget that he isn't Usain Bolt in pads and cleats.
We have guys with speed....Hawkins/Benjamin.
But speed isn't the absolute key ingredient to making a WR....unless we are talking about Mac Speedie.
Look at the list of HOF WRs. Except for Bob Hayes, few of them were the speediest cats around.
Having Glue Finger (like Lavelli
) is every bit as important. And crisp route running....like Warfield...is every bit as important.And putting yourself into the right position ....like Gary Collins, and Cris Carter is every bit the crucial element as well.
So, to me....having great hands, running crisp routes, knowing how to position yourself for the catch are probably more essential than speed.
If this guy comes here and breaks Gary Collins record for career TD passes, we will all forget that he isn't Usain Bolt in pads and cleats.
A very good WR is a blend of speed and size, the Browns have both just not combined in a single WR. QBs don't put every deep ball on the money and DBs don't always fall down, a number of times that happened last year. I remember at least 3 deep throws to Benjamin last year where the DB just flat out beat him to the under thrown ball where a Julio Jones, AJ Green, Beckham, Johnson, etc. pulls those down. I can't remember may times a Browns WR won a contested ball.
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I would only say that I think we got what we need and I have lots of confidence in our current group...(plus, Im another one that just doesn't believe WR's are that critical to invest big on them)......we have a couple big guys now that can go up for it....a few speedsters who can fly....some possession guys......really dont see the gaping hole or need for a mega receiver over other things....
I like what they are doing....If the ZBT regains it's form(and there's no reason it shouldn't) and the running game gets back on track, we have plenty of guys who can get open and some burners who can take it deep. Last year we had guys get open deep, fairly often, but didnt have QB who could get it there....not sure if we do now, we'll see.....but Id rather not invest in a WR until we do.......
People forget that just last year, when Mack was healthy and our running game was clicking.....we lead the league in avg per pass and had more long balls than anyone......and it was the system that made it work.....so, Id like to see if we can get back to that and see if we can be successful no matter who's in there, rather than just be dependent on some "star" receiver....
Just don't have anyone that poses a matchup problem and thus no threat to stretch the field or score in the redzone. Our burners are too small to get 50/50 balls and our bigger receivers can't run past anyone. I really don't think we needed a "Mega Receiver" but Strong would have been a viable inexpensive option. Before Mack got hurt we played one decent defense, the Ravens. I guess we can agree to disagree but if the team struggles to score points next year it will be on the passing game.
I really don't think we needed a "Mega Receiver" but Strong would have been a viable inexpensive option. Before Mack got hurt we played one decent defense, the Ravens. I guess we can agree to disagree but if the team struggles to score points next year it will be on the passing game.
I hear ya....and yeah, we just have different perspectives...all good....
The thing about Strong is....I see Mayle as being about the same thing.....except, I think ,Mayle could have more upside. They are both the same size and about the same speed. Strong is a touch faster, but nowhere near a burner or someone who will separate from DB's. I got into a debate with someone before the draft because I wanted the Browns NOT to pick Strong simply because of his drops and inconsistency. He was on my short list of players to avoid, actually. I see Mayle as a very similar style of player, but with much less experience.....and I think the inexperience offers a better hope for improvement, than a guy who's been working at it for a while(and still cant catch well).....
So, while neither is a mega receiver, I dont see much difference between the 2 or anything that suggests Strong will be good.....
Either way...until we have a QB, it's all moot....passing game may be crap, but Id bet QB is the larger part of that.....
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Simply put, the lack of offensive weapons when it comes to this team is disappointing.
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We have guys with speed....Hawkins/Benjamin.
But speed isn't the absolute key ingredient to making a WR....unless we are talking about Mac Speedie.
Look at the list of HOF WRs. Except for Bob Hayes, few of them were the speediest cats around.
Having Glue Finger (like Lavelli
) is every bit as important. And crisp route running....like Warfield...is every bit as important.And putting yourself into the right position ....like Gary Collins, and Cris Carter is every bit the crucial element as well.
So, to me....having great hands, running crisp routes, knowing how to position yourself for the catch are probably more essential than speed.
If this guy comes here and breaks Gary Collins record for career TD passes, we will all forget that he isn't Usain Bolt in pads and cleats.
A very good WR is a blend of speed and size, the Browns have both just not combined in a single WR. QBs don't put every deep ball on the money and DBs don't always fall down, a number of times that happened last year. I remember at least 3 deep throws to Benjamin last year where the DB just flat out beat him to the under thrown ball where a Julio Jones, AJ Green, Beckham, Johnson, etc. pulls those down. I can't remember may times a Browns WR won a contested ball.
A very good WR is a blend of speed and size, the Browns have both just not combined in a single WR. QBs don't put every deep ball on the money and DBs don't always fall down, a number of times that happened last year. I remember at least 3 deep throws to Benjamin last year where the DB just flat out beat him to the under thrown ball where a Julio Jones, AJ Green, Beckham, Johnson, etc. pulls those down. I can't remember may times a Browns WR won a contested ball.
I am not sure you are making sense....or I am misunderstanding. Benjamin goes deep....but then a ball is underthrown....and the DB gets back into position to win the battle for the underthrown ball. How in hell is this an issue with Benjamin's speed?
It seems like it is an issue with the QBs arm....or with Benjamin's height....as we know he is short....but not his speed.
And, yes, a 6'5" guy like Johnson or Green will have a better chance to pull down a jump ball over a 5'9" guy like Benjamin.
So....now we have Hartline, Bowe who are both 6'2"....same as Austin Miles who they replaced and Mayles who is 6'3/6'4"
So, maybe the Browns will have a better chance to pull down those jump balls.
And Benjamin runs a 4.36 40. And Andrew Hawkins runs a 4.34 40. Faster than the 4.5 that both Bowe and Hartline run.
(and all of whom are faster than Mayle's 4.67 time.
So...we have a couple of shorter speedsters, and a few larger but slower possession guys.
With the Right QB they could get the job done.
Note the teams that were in the SB......no great shakes at WR. The best receiver on either team was Gronk the TE.
The Browns will make do.
Unless...you really do want to sign up Usain Bolt......he could probably run about a 4.2 40. And he is 6'5".....big enough to haul down those jump balls.
But could he catch....and take a hit? Probably not.
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Simply put, the lack of offensive weapons when it comes to this team is disappointing.
Simply put, the lack of offensive weapons when it comes to this team is disappointing.
But that really comes down now to one guy: a QB.
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A very good WR is a blend of speed and size, the Browns have both just not combined in a single WR. QBs don't put every deep ball on the money and DBs don't always fall down, a number of times that happened last year. I remember at least 3 deep throws to Benjamin last year where the DB just flat out beat him to the under thrown ball where a Julio Jones, AJ Green, Beckham, Johnson, etc. pulls those down. I can't remember may times a Browns WR won a contested ball.
I am not sure you are making sense....or I am misunderstanding. Benjamin goes deep....but then a ball is underthrown....and the DB gets back into position to win the battle for the underthrown ball. How in hell is this an issue with Benjamin's speed?
It seems like it is an issue with the QBs arm....or with Benjamin's height....as we know he is short....but not his speed.
And, yes, a 6'5" guy like Johnson or Green will have a better chance to pull down a jump ball over a 5'9" guy like Benjamin.
So....now we have Hartline, Bowe who are both 6'2"....same as Austin Miles who they replaced and Mayles who is 6'3/6'4"
So, maybe the Browns will have a better chance to pull down those jump balls.
And Benjamin runs a 4.36 40. And Andrew Hawkins runs a 4.34 40. Faster than the 4.5 that both Bowe and Hartline run.
(and all of whom are faster than Mayle's 4.67 time.
So...we have a couple of shorter speedsters, and a few larger but slower possession guys.
With the Right QB they could get the job done.
Note the teams that were in the SB......no great shakes at WR. The best receiver on either team was Gronk the TE.
The Browns will make do.
Unless...you really do want to sign up Usain Bolt......he could probably run about a 4.2 40. And he is 6'5".....big enough to haul down those jump balls.
But could he catch....and take a hit? Probably not.
I am not sure you are making sense....or I am misunderstanding. Benjamin goes deep....but then a ball is underthrown....and the DB gets back into position to win the battle for the underthrown ball. How in hell is this an issue with Benjamin's speed?
It seems like it is an issue with the QBs arm....or with Benjamin's height....as we know he is short....but not his speed.
And, yes, a 6'5" guy like Johnson or Green will have a better chance to pull down a jump ball over a 5'9" guy like Benjamin.
So....now we have Hartline, Bowe who are both 6'2"....same as Austin Miles who they replaced and Mayles who is 6'3/6'4"
So, maybe the Browns will have a better chance to pull down those jump balls.
And Benjamin runs a 4.36 40. And Andrew Hawkins runs a 4.34 40. Faster than the 4.5 that both Bowe and Hartline run.
(and all of whom are faster than Mayle's 4.67 time.
So...we have a couple of shorter speedsters, and a few larger but slower possession guys.
With the Right QB they could get the job done.
Note the teams that were in the SB......no great shakes at WR. The best receiver on either team was Gronk the TE.
The Browns will make do.
Unless...you really do want to sign up Usain Bolt......he could probably run about a 4.2 40. And he is 6'5".....big enough to haul down those jump balls.
But could he catch....and take a hit? Probably not.
My point is the Browns have size and strength just not in the same player and defenses have the ability to adjust to one or the other but not both. All I heard all year long was look the Seahawks are winning with Kearse and Baldwin and then....wait for it...they sign Jimmy Graham to give them the size and speed guy to make their offense more dangerous. Unless you have Aaron Rodgers it helps your QB out a lot to have that "difficult to defend" receiver.
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I really don't think we needed a "Mega Receiver" but Strong would have been a viable inexpensive option. Before Mack got hurt we played one decent defense, the Ravens. I guess we can agree to disagree but if the team struggles to score points next year it will be on the passing game.
I hear ya....and yeah, we just have different perspectives...all good....
The thing about Strong is....I see Mayle as being about the same thing.....except, I think ,Mayle could have more upside. They are both the same size and about the same speed. Strong is a touch faster, but nowhere near a burner or someone who will separate from DB's. I got into a debate with someone before the draft because I wanted the Browns NOT to pick Strong simply because of his drops and inconsistency. He was on my short list of players to avoid, actually. I see Mayle as a very similar style of player, but with much less experience.....and I think the inexperience offers a better hope for improvement, than a guy who's been working at it for a while(and still cant catch well).....
So, while neither is a mega receiver, I dont see much difference between the 2 or anything that suggests Strong will be good.....
Either way...until we have a QB, it's all moot....passing game may be crap, but Id bet QB is the larger part of that.....
I hear ya....and yeah, we just have different perspectives...all good....
The thing about Strong is....I see Mayle as being about the same thing.....except, I think ,Mayle could have more upside. They are both the same size and about the same speed. Strong is a touch faster, but nowhere near a burner or someone who will separate from DB's. I got into a debate with someone before the draft because I wanted the Browns NOT to pick Strong simply because of his drops and inconsistency. He was on my short list of players to avoid, actually. I see Mayle as a very similar style of player, but with much less experience.....and I think the inexperience offers a better hope for improvement, than a guy who's been working at it for a while(and still cant catch well).....
So, while neither is a mega receiver, I dont see much difference between the 2 or anything that suggests Strong will be good.....
Either way...until we have a QB, it's all moot....passing game may be crap, but Id bet QB is the larger part of that.....
Mayle ran a 4.67 and Strong ran a 4.44, that is a bit of a speed disparity. Beasley at LB ran a 4.53.
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I am not sure you are making sense....or I am misunderstanding. Benjamin goes deep....but then a ball is underthrown....and the DB gets back into position to win the battle for the underthrown ball. How in hell is this an issue with Benjamin's speed?
It seems like it is an issue with the QBs arm....or with Benjamin's height....as we know he is short....but not his speed.
And, yes, a 6'5" guy like Johnson or Green will have a better chance to pull down a jump ball over a 5'9" guy like Benjamin.
So....now we have Hartline, Bowe who are both 6'2"....same as Austin Miles who they replaced and Mayles who is 6'3/6'4"
So, maybe the Browns will have a better chance to pull down those jump balls.
And Benjamin runs a 4.36 40. And Andrew Hawkins runs a 4.34 40. Faster than the 4.5 that both Bowe and Hartline run.
(and all of whom are faster than Mayle's 4.67 time.
So...we have a couple of shorter speedsters, and a few larger but slower possession guys.
With the Right QB they could get the job done.
Note the teams that were in the SB......no great shakes at WR. The best receiver on either team was Gronk the TE.
The Browns will make do.
Unless...you really do want to sign up Usain Bolt......he could probably run about a 4.2 40. And he is 6'5".....big enough to haul down those jump balls.
But could he catch....and take a hit? Probably not.
My point is the Browns have size and strength just not in the same player and defenses have the ability to adjust to one or the other but not both. All I heard all year long was look the Seahawks are winning with Kearse and Baldwin and then....wait for it...they sign Jimmy Graham to give them the size and speed guy to make their offense more dangerous. Unless you have Aaron Rodgers it helps your QB out a lot to have that "difficult to defend" receiver.
My point is the Browns have size and strength just not in the same player and defenses have the ability to adjust to one or the other but not both. All I heard all year long was look the Seahawks are winning with Kearse and Baldwin and then....wait for it...they sign Jimmy Graham to give them the size and speed guy to make their offense more dangerous. Unless you have Aaron Rodgers it helps your QB out a lot to have that "difficult to defend" receiver.
Well, sure, if you have the whole package: speed, size, sticky fingers, chutzpah....then you have Randy Moss, still perhaps the best physical specimen ever at WR.
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My point is the Browns have size and strength just not in the same player and defenses have the ability to adjust to one or the other but not both. All I heard all year long was look the Seahawks are winning with Kearse and Baldwin and then....wait for it...they sign Jimmy Graham to give them the size and speed guy to make their offense more dangerous. Unless you have Aaron Rodgers it helps your QB out a lot to have that "difficult to defend" receiver.
Well, sure, if you have the whole package: speed, size, sticky fingers, chutzpah....then you have Randy Moss, still perhaps the best physical specimen ever at WR.
. Gronk, Graham, Jones, Green, Johnson, Benjamin, Thomas, Marshall, Jeffrey, etc.Well, sure, if you have the whole package: speed, size, sticky fingers, chutzpah....then you have Randy Moss, still perhaps the best physical specimen ever at WR.
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. Gronk, Graham, Jones, Green, Johnson, Benjamin, Thomas, Marshall, Jeffrey, etc.Well, sure, if you have the whole package: speed, size, sticky fingers, chutzpah....then you have Randy Moss, still perhaps the best physical specimen ever at WR.
. Gronk, Graham, Jones, Green, Johnson, Benjamin, Thomas, Marshall, Jeffrey, etc.
Some good players, sure. None of them are Randy Moss pure talent wise.
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. Gronk, Graham, Jones, Green, Johnson, Benjamin, Thomas, Marshall, Jeffrey, etc.
Some good players, sure. None of them are Randy Moss pure talent wise.
No they aren't but they all fit that mode of almost impossible to defendSome good players, sure. None of them are Randy Moss pure talent wise.
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No they aren't but they all fit that mode of almost impossible to defendSome good players, sure. None of them are Randy Moss pure talent wise.
No they aren't but they all fit that mode of almost impossible to defend
I would take them over what we got.....but that doesn't mean I would have take whomever was on the board at WR over who we selected at the other positions.
People complain about the WR position.....but the Browns did get 2 in FA, and a fairly highly rated guy in Mayle. He was a Top 100 ranked player.
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