TP has been realesed by the Chiefs
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And yet you were responding to what I was saying about medical redshirts, and then didn't take the two seconds to explain what they were. If my lack of knowledge about some minute tool used for cutting players is "representative of everything I've posted," then surely you being wrong about the conference unequally enforcing its rules, your Mississippi State theory, your beliefs on bowl game attendance, etc. is the same for you. You haven't exactly had solid command of the facts.
I'm not going back and forth between defending A&M and defending the SEC. As a knowledgeable A&M fan, that is the team I can best comment on and I can use our experiences to reasonably grasp that of others (such as the NCAA having a high bar for medical redshirts, though that point is now moot).
Yet by your own standards, invoking the B1G's scholarship policy must mean you are "jumping back and forth between beating your B1G chest and then only commenting on Michigan when it suits you." I realize that's not what you're doing. So realize what I'm doing when I bring up A&M.
"I am not defining the "goodness" of anything. You are the one claiming SEC fans are "Better". I have disagreed. That doesn't mean I think B1G fans are better."
I actually said we had the best fans. Logically, you denying that means you think another conference has the best fans. So argue for one or stop saying we don't have the best fans. Again, individual schools might have better fans, but no conference top to bottom even comes close. You can ignorantly keep spouting "not having pro teams doesn't make you a better fan," and "being a bunch of dumb rednecks doesn't make you better fans," yet I'm not allowed to ask you what DOES make a better fan? Don't make assertions you can't back up.
No coach would use the medical hardship until they've first asked the kid if he's willing to transfer. So no, his football career is NOT "ended." And surely the B1G still has standards by which players can be kicked off the team. I could complain that those are too low just as you complain "not performing" is too low, right?
So in the same thread you go from advocating that players make money on their likeness to lamenting the fact that they're more and more treated as professionals instead of student athletes. Ok big guy.
We're arguing about which conference is the best and why, yet anytime I criticize the conference I assume you think is the best, you say "I'm not defending the Big 10." Ok, well which is the best, and why? Even if you're only willing to say "the SEC is the best, BUT only because of cheating," then at least do that so we can move on. Arguing that it's not by far the best conference over the last 10 years is based in very little fact and is generally quite futile.
Not counting UF as a power program would be as idiotic as me not counting Michigan as a power program. If you put 75,000 butts in seats consistently, recruit well consistently (over 10 years), are in a talent-laden area, and/or have strong history in the last 25 years, you're a power program. Even if we were judging by your standard, a team with two national championships in the last 9 years isn't a "power program"? Yeah. Ok.
I count Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State, obviously. There is not enough talent in the area to sustain other programs on any sort of consistent basis. Sure, you can get the Gary Patterson at TCU kind of guys here and there that can win with less like Dantonio, but that doesn't alone make you a power program.
No the debate is still mostly legitimate, despite your ad hominem attacks, name calling, and general lack of class. And you've been losing from the moment you proved you had a fact blatantly wrong. You're going to try to hang your hat on the fact I didn't know what the obscure "medical hardship" was, as if it matters. I think readers will realize you are the one short on knowledge here. Plus, we're all still a little unsure of what you're even arguing.
At least you can concede that the SEC is the "older kids" of college football. Couldnt agree more.
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A.Let's make things clear.....a lot of the SEC teams look so good because of the cupcake non-conference schedules.
Also....the SEC was far from the best conference this past year despite some teams having gawdy early season records (see A Above). Their record in bowl games wasn't so hot. And, in this last draft, the Pac12 had more higher players drafted than the SEC.....because apparently it had more talent
A. That's not clear nor is it accurate. We look good because we had the best bowl record almost a decade running and because we just won 7 straight crystal balls. Among other things.
B. It had more upperclassmen talent, yes. Totally granted. We'll see how they do next year. IMO the SEC is slowly moving toward much more of a college basketballish "rent a player" model. No redshirts, three years for everyone, if you haven't proved yourself within two years you transfer.
But regardless, you mention our apparently lousy bowl record last year when we were only #2 in the bowl standings, as opposed to our usual #1. Oh, whatever will we do with such a failure.
A. That's not clear nor is it accurate. We look good because we had the best bowl record almost a decade running and because we just won 7 straight crystal balls. Among other things.
I don't know about the bowl thing.....but you had specific teams win those titles. One or two great teams doesn't not a good conference make. If that were the case then it could be argued that the Big Ten is the best conference because it now holds the title.
B. It had more upperclassmen talent, yes. Totally granted. We'll see how they do next year. IMO the SEC is slowly moving toward much more of a college basketballish "rent a player" model. No redshirts, three years for everyone, if you haven't proved yourself within two years you transfer.
But regardless, you mention our apparently lousy bowl record last year when we were only #2 in the bowl standings, as opposed to our usual #1. Oh, whatever will we do with such a failure.
I don't think it was that good. Show us the record.
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What Zombo really is hinting at, and what guys like ballpeen have confirmed is that this "rooting for the SEC" phenomena is that somehow people in the south think that because they may have good football teams that it somehow makes up for losing the Civil War.....honest to fucking god. They think that "Dixie will rise again" if they win a football game.
Of course what a lot of those people don't get is that it is the great great great grandsons of those slaves they fought so hard to keep that are winning them those football games. And it is these same g-g-g-sons that they wanted to deny rights to up until at least the 80s (and even some today). So, yes, the South has risen again.....the sons of the slaves of the south that is.
Yep. Nailed it, Gipper. We all just want the best football in the south to make up for losing the Civil War. You are so prescient. The only bad part is that sometimes when it's really hot in August I have to take off my hood and then it ruins the whole effect.
Get real.
Yep. Nailed it, Gipper. We all just want the best football in the south to make up for losing the Civil War. You are so prescient. The only bad part is that sometimes when it's really hot in August I have to take off my hood and then it ruins the whole effect.
Get real.
You think I am joking? I am not fucking joking. And don't ask me, as ballpeen......A Florida graduate and a Tennessee resident.
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We average almost 80,000 people at every SEC game. Yes, we are "better fans." Get over it.
Yes, there is a difference. But Bama folks would still come away saying "we got a ranked win." Maybe you want to evaluate the records during that week and determine where exactly MSU deserved to be ranked? I mean since you're omniscient and all. I know that last year IIRC, there was only one team that made it to 7-0.
We watch more football, as reflected by the payouts for the SEC Network and our regular conference TV contract.
LOL. If satellite camps had started in the SEC you'd be complaining about it being another unfair advantage. Classic. And don't Big 10 teams set up satellite camps in the south? Almost a concession that we have the best players, but I digress.
Yes, everything is cyclical. But we're nowhere near starting our decline. Between the poverty here that helps produce great players that need football, the number of fans going to the games, the decline in interest in CFB in the rest of the country (attendance has been consistently down everywhere but the SEC), the TV markets, etc. We will be fine. Even if we don't dominate the landscape the way we did from 06-12, no conference will be able to make an even remotely legitimate case that they are better. Different conferences might say they're better at different things, but across the board the SEC will reign for awhile.
Whoops I skipped some parts. I'm not defending the SEC selectively and only defending A&M in other situations. I'm just saying that A&M has not once gotten a medical redshirt, so don't try to tell me the NCAA just gives them out like candy to SEC teams. Again, they have a high bar for it. We had a guy go down for the season in the first game of the season last year. He had transferred the year before so he hadn't played in a solid year and a half. The NCAA rejected his medical redshirt petition.
Ok you provided one example with Dan Mullen. Kudos. But he was skewered by many down here and he will suffer consequences recruiting in Texas in the future. So it all works out. It doesn't happen that often and when it does it's not that big of a deal.
I suppose bad schools shouldn't exist? Or shouldn't have football teams? I don't really see your point. But yes I will grant you that teams are benefited when their athletes are less distracted in easier classes. Life is all about trade offs. You wanna be the snooty academicians with saints on your football team, fine. We'll be the winners in football.
We average almost 80,000 people at every SEC game. Yes, we are "better fans." Get over it.
The Top 5 schools in attendance in college football consists of 3 Big Ten Teams, 1 Big 12, and one SEC
Yes, there is a difference. But Bama folks would still come away saying "we got a ranked win." Maybe you want to evaluate the records during that week and determine where exactly MSU deserved to be ranked? I mean since you're omniscient and all. I know that last year IIRC, there was only one team that made it to 7-0.
Yes, by playing Southern Mississippi, UAB, So. Alabama,and UT Martin
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I'm sure you didn't acknowledge as much when we won 7 straight and had the best bowl record for forever, but ok.
You better hope I don't find you cosigning Gipper's "championships won 80 years ago are important!!" theory (which I have no problem with personally but if you supported it you'd be a hypocrite).
I'm sure you didn't acknowledge as much when we won 7 straight and had the best bowl record for forever, but ok.
You better hope I don't find you cosigning Gipper's "championships won 80 years ago are important!!" theory (which I have no problem with personally but if you supported it you'd be a hypocrite).
Who's this "We"? A&M only recently got into the SEC, the streak started well before you joined the conference and more specifically - your school hasn't contributed to it.
I don't mind people hoping to see their conference as strong as possible, but the chest thumping (that don't play yourself, started with the SEC) is a bit ridiculous.
Correct. I guess Ohio State fans currently have what they want. A watered down, terrible conference surrounding a really good Ohio State.
Remind me of the SEC West's bowl game record again?
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Can thus be broken up into chapters? Flugel would even say this thread is longwinded.
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And here you go:
Coach Les Miles, HC LSU....from Elyria, Oh. and Michigan Univ.
Coach Gary Pinkel HC Missouri....from Akron, Ohio via Kent St. Univ.
Coach Mark Stoops HC Kentucky....from Youngstown, Ohio via Iowa Univ.
Coach Nick Saban HC Alabama...from WVA via Kent State, Ohio
Kevin Sumlin HC Tex. A&M...from Ala. via Purdue Univ.
Butch Jones HC Tenn. ....from Saugatuck, Mich. and Central Mich.
Dan Mullen HC Miss. St. ....from Drexel Hill PA and Ursinus College PA
Mark Richt HC Georgia....from Omaha Nebraska via Miami Univ
Bret Bielema HC Ark.....from Illinois via Univ. of Iowa
Urban Meyer former FLA HC....from Ashtabula, Oh. via Ohio State
But I guess the SEC did have to have a few token southerners coach their teams:
Spurrier is from Floridaand Univ. of Florida
Freeze from Mississippi via Southern Miss. U.
Muschamp from Ga. and the Univ. of Georgia
Malzahn from Texas via Henderston St. Univ. (Ark.)
Hell, the SEC has as many coaches from little ole Kent State and more from the MAC as it has from the entire SEC conference.
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So what you're saying is, the Northern coaches have to show the southerners how to play ball? Gotchya'.
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SEC use of medical hardship/transfer/etc to end the career after 1,2 years isn't "some minute tool" - it's their entire philosophy, and fits right with their use of oversigning. It's the other side of the coin. It's part of the Southern culture of abusing people because they can - aka the cultural self-justification of slavery - it's not right, and that's why the big10 won't do it. Not shockingly, the big10's model was not even considered by the SEC.
I hate the SEC and the South because of that culture, and I will always root for OSU to run up the score on every SEC team at every opportunity.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
Move to college forum?
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A. That's not clear nor is it accurate. We look good because we had the best bowl record almost a decade running and because we just won 7 straight crystal balls. Among other things.
I don't know about the bowl thing.....but you had specific teams win those titles. One or two great teams doesn't not a good conference make. If that were the case then it could be argued that the Big Ten is the best conference because it now holds the title.
B. It had more upperclassmen talent, yes. Totally granted. We'll see how they do next year. IMO the SEC is slowly moving toward much more of a college basketballish "rent a player" model. No redshirts, three years for everyone, if you haven't proved yourself within two years you transfer.
But regardless, you mention our apparently lousy bowl record last year when we were only #2 in the bowl standings, as opposed to our usual #1. Oh, whatever will we do with such a failure.
I don't think it was that good. Show us the record.
A. That's not clear nor is it accurate. We look good because we had the best bowl record almost a decade running and because we just won 7 straight crystal balls. Among other things.
I don't know about the bowl thing.....but you had specific teams win those titles. One or two great teams doesn't not a good conference make. If that were the case then it could be argued that the Big Ten is the best conference because it now holds the title.
B. It had more upperclassmen talent, yes. Totally granted. We'll see how they do next year. IMO the SEC is slowly moving toward much more of a college basketballish "rent a player" model. No redshirts, three years for everyone, if you haven't proved yourself within two years you transfer.
But regardless, you mention our apparently lousy bowl record last year when we were only #2 in the bowl standings, as opposed to our usual #1. Oh, whatever will we do with such a failure.
I don't think it was that good. Show us the record.
We were 7-5, PAC was 6-2.
During the streak, 4 different teams won natties. So no it's not all one team.
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Just to be fair, here are the origins of the Big Ten HCs:
Urban Meyer HC Ohio St. ....born Ashtabula Oh, degrees at Cincinnati and Ohio St.
Mark Dantonio HC Mich. St.....born El Paso Tx, degrees at South Carolina and Ohio U
James Franklin HC Penn St....born Langhorne Pa, degree at Stroudsburg St.
Pat Fitgerald HC Northwestern...born Chicago area degree at Northwestern
Gary Anderson HC Wisconsin...born Salt Lake City, degree at Utah
Mike Riley HC Nebraska....born in Idaho, degree at Alabama
Jerry Kill HC Minnesota...born rural Kansas, degree at Southwestern Kansas
Kirk Ferentz HC Iowa...born Royal Oak Mich, degree at Connecticut
Jim Harbaugh HC Michigan...born Toledo, OH, degree at Michigan
Randy Edsall HC Maryland...born in PA, degree at Syracuse
Kevin Wilson HC Indiana...born in North Carolina, degree at North Carolina
Kyle Flood HC Rutgers...born in Queens, degree at Iona
Tim Beckman HC Illinois....born in Berea OH, degree at Findlay OH
Darrell Hazell HC Purdue...born in New Jersey, degree at Muskingam College OH
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We average almost 80,000 people at every SEC game. Yes, we are "better fans." Get over it.
The Top 5 schools in attendance in college football consists of 3 Big Ten Teams, 1 Big 12, and one SEC
Yes, there is a difference. But Bama folks would still come away saying "we got a ranked win." Maybe you want to evaluate the records during that week and determine where exactly MSU deserved to be ranked? I mean since you're omniscient and all. I know that last year IIRC, there was only one team that made it to 7-0.
Yes, by playing Southern Mississippi, UAB, So. Alabama,and UT Martin
We average almost 80,000 people at every SEC game. Yes, we are "better fans." Get over it.
The Top 5 schools in attendance in college football consists of 3 Big Ten Teams, 1 Big 12, and one SEC
Yes, there is a difference. But Bama folks would still come away saying "we got a ranked win." Maybe you want to evaluate the records during that week and determine where exactly MSU deserved to be ranked? I mean since you're omniscient and all. I know that last year IIRC, there was only one team that made it to 7-0.
Yes, by playing Southern Mississippi, UAB, So. Alabama,and UT Martin
You can make the cutoff mark wherever you want. Who has more of the top 10? 15? 20? 25? Who has the highest average? I already said the Big 10 had three high quality, power programs. And after that, not much. Nebraska has the history and fan support but no longer has any local talent or national appeal.
And yet very few other teams had the same record at that point, despite the fact that everyone plays weak comp early in the year.
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A. That's not clear nor is it accurate. We look good because we had the best bowl record almost a decade running and because we just won 7 straight crystal balls. Among other things.
I don't know about the bowl thing.....but you had specific teams win those titles. One or two great teams doesn't not a good conference make. If that were the case then it could be argued that the Big Ten is the best conference because it now holds the title.
B. It had more upperclassmen talent, yes. Totally granted. We'll see how they do next year. IMO the SEC is slowly moving toward much more of a college basketballish "rent a player" model. No redshirts, three years for everyone, if you haven't proved yourself within two years you transfer.
But regardless, you mention our apparently lousy bowl record last year when we were only #2 in the bowl standings, as opposed to our usual #1. Oh, whatever will we do with such a failure.
I don't think it was that good. Show us the record.
We were 7-5, PAC was 6-2.
During the streak, 4 different teams won natties. So no it's not all one team.
We were 7-5, PAC was 6-2.
During the streak, 4 different teams won natties. So no it's not all one team.
We? You mean they. The only we that you can count is your alma mater.....and I assume that is A&M. How did they do?
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We average almost 80,000 people at every SEC game. Yes, we are "better fans." Get over it.
The Top 5 schools in attendance in college football consists of 3 Big Ten Teams, 1 Big 12, and one SEC
Yes, there is a difference. But Bama folks would still come away saying "we got a ranked win." Maybe you want to evaluate the records during that week and determine where exactly MSU deserved to be ranked? I mean since you're omniscient and all. I know that last year IIRC, there was only one team that made it to 7-0.
Yes, by playing Southern Mississippi, UAB, So. Alabama,and UT Martin
You can make the cutoff mark wherever you want. Who has more of the top 10? 15? 20? 25? Who has the highest average? I already said the Big 10 had three high quality, power programs. And after that, not much. Nebraska has the history and fan support but no longer has any local talent or national appeal.
And yet very few other teams had the same record at that point, despite the fact that everyone plays weak comp early in the year.
You can make the cutoff mark wherever you want. Who has more of the top 10? 15? 20? 25? Who has the highest average? I already said the Big 10 had three high quality, power programs. And after that, not much. Nebraska has the history and fan support but no longer has any local talent or national appeal.
And yet very few other teams had the same record at that point, despite the fact that everyone plays weak comp early in the year.
But for a conference that claims superiority they suffer from diabetes more than any other. No one other of the power conferences piles on the creampuffs and cupcakes like the SEC.
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A&M won its bowl.
The best coaches definitely come from up north. Too bad you guys can't keep them up there.
But doesn't the majority of SEC coaches being northerners blow up the theory that we're fine with treating players poorly just like we're fine with having slaves and treating them poorly?
The randomness, patheticness, inconsistency, and General "throw crap against the wall to see what sticks" tenor of the attacks on the SEC are hilarious. There is no coherent argument other than "well we won the last national championship."
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So...move to the college forum?
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SEC use of medical hardship/transfer/etc to end the career after 1,2 years isn't "some minute tool" - it's their entire philosophy, and fits right with their use of oversigning. It's the other side of the coin. It's part of the Southern culture of abusing people because they can - aka the cultural self-justification of slavery - it's not right, and that's why the big10 won't do it. Not shockingly, the big10's model was not even considered by the SEC.
I hate the SEC and the South because of that culture, and I will always root for OSU to run up the score on every SEC team at every opportunity.
SEC use of medical hardship/transfer/etc to end the career after 1,2 years isn't "some minute tool" - it's their entire philosophy, and fits right with their use of oversigning. It's the other side of the coin. It's part of the Southern culture of abusing people because they can - aka the cultural self-justification of slavery - it's not right, and that's why the big10 won't do it. Not shockingly, the big10's model was not even considered by the SEC.
I hate the SEC and the South because of that culture, and I will always root for OSU to run up the score on every SEC team at every opportunity.
Holy shit.
Oversigning tied to slavery.
Creative.
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A&M won its bowl.
The best coaches definitely come from up north. Too bad you guys can't keep them up there.
But doesn't the majority of SEC coaches being northerners blow up the theory that we're fine with treating players poorly just like we're fine with having slaves and treating them poorly?
The randomness, patheticness, inconsistency, and General "throw crap against the wall to see what sticks" tenor of the attacks on the SEC are hilarious. There is no coherent argument other than "well we won the last national championship."
A&M won its bowl.
The best coaches definitely come from up north. Too bad you guys can't keep them up there.
Well, coaches are human and susceptible to all that under the table money that gets thrown around down there.
But doesn't the majority of SEC coaches being northerners blow up the theory that we're fine with treating players poorly just like we're fine with having slaves and treating them poorly?
I don't think I was ever one that said that the SEC treated their players poorly....at least not while those players are there. I believe Woody's theory is that to the SEC players are a fungible commodity......discardable if they are perceived no longer useful. While I don't know if that is true, I guess it is plausible (and may happen at any number of other places). As to slavery, again, I never said they treated the players poorly....just that it was ironic that certain southerners want to use those grandsons of slaves as reason to pacify themselves over the loss of the Civil War. They probably treat the pretty well.
The randomness, patheticness, inconsistency, and General "throw crap against the wall to see what sticks" tenor of the attacks on the SEC are hilarious. There is no coherent argument other than "well we won the last national championship."
The SEC and its supporters open themselves up to attack by their ignorance, arrogance...and disreputable ways. You get what you pay for.
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