The Latest on "The Trade"
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Oh, and ironically, the value argument was the exact argument I used last year for trading DA while his value was highest. Buy low, sell high.
At the time my thought was we had BQ and BQ plus 2 Day One picks was greater than DA and BQ.
The irony is that now we are saying that DA plus 2 Day One picks is greater than DA and BQ.
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From Terry Pluto:
1. While some fans gnash their teeth and wish evil things for coach Eric Mangini every time a Brady Quinn rumor is floated, the Browns have a much bigger problem than trying to figure out who should be their quarterback next season. That's because I believe it will be Quinn, and everything else is posturing to increase the possible trade value of Derek Anderson.
I'm sure Lum has a source to refute Pluto's view and debunk him as a complete sports reporting hack.
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From Terry Pluto:
1. While some fans gnash their teeth and wish evil things for coach Eric Mangini every time a Brady Quinn rumor is floated, the Browns have a much bigger problem than trying to figure out who should be their quarterback next season. That's because I believe it will be Quinn, and everything else is posturing to increase the possible trade value of Derek Anderson.
I'm sure Lum has a source to refute Pluto's view and debunk him as a complete sports reporting hack.
From Terry Pluto:
I'm sure Lum has a source to refute Pluto's view and debunk him as a complete sports reporting hack.
I don't see how floating Quinn rumors would increase Anderson's value??
I understand how us acting like we want to keep Anderson might do that, but I think it would be easy enough for other teams to say ok.....let's talk Quinn.
As much as would like to think it so.....other teams aren't run by fools who would trade a Mickey Mantle card for Elroy Face and Ted Abernathy cards.
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What is there to say about Pluto? It is his opinion, I can disagree with his opinion but I can't say he is right or wrong until the season starts. You don't have to pull up articles or other peoples opinions to say if Pluto is talking out his ass or not. Until somebody that works for the Browns says something then everything is just an opinion and conjecture.
And Dam, you are right if the Browns were offered two first day picks for DA last season they should have pulled the trigger. Just like they should this year for BQ. But, I do not think that the Browns will trade BQ and I do think he will start the season at QB.
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Cutler is the proven QB here and they are willing to trade him for draft picks and Brady Quinn
really? i know he has the yards to back this up but look at his record as a starter is 17-20. he's below .500. he also has never been to the playoffs. i know that he can't control what happens on defense, but if he really was elite, he would have at least an above .500 record or a playoff appearance. i'm also not sold on his abilities late in the game. if it weren't for a blown call by ed hochuli then the broncos would have lost that first game against the chargers because cutler got happy feet and dropped the ball.
really? i know he has the yards to back this up but look at his record as a starter is 17-20. he's below .500. he also has never been to the playoffs. i know that he can't control what happens on defense, but if he really was elite, he would have at least an above .500 record or a playoff appearance. i'm also not sold on his abilities late in the game. if it weren't for a blown call by ed hochuli then the broncos would have lost that first game against the chargers because cutler got happy feet and dropped the ball.
I'm not a Cutler fan but at the same time you can't lay this 17-20 record on him. You are right in that he can't control what happens on Defense and that was the cause of the Bronco's woes. They are absolutely awful.
The one thing Cutler can control is the offensive numbers and as a team they were really good. At one time the were in the top 5 in overall offense. I'm unsure where they ended up.
It's just not fair to say he's not elite becasue they are not over .500. But don't get me wrong. I want nothing to do with the guy.
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That was my point, cmac, if you took a second to think about it. There's nothing at all that can be drawn from any of this crap until one of the QB's is dealt or we keep 'em both.
Pluto's pretty well respected. His opinion is we'll go with Quinn. It simply points out that these things can be intrepreted any way you wish.
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Exactly, and why it always causes a big fuss when discussed.
Everybody has a opinion, and very few of them are the same.
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Thats all i can say if DA or our new qb falls flat on his face mankok better be ready to leave town in a hurry because a fools move like this instantly voids the honeymoon and i would have to look at a deal like this as a backscratching deal that benefits everyone but the browns fans and perhaps the browns themselves in the near future...as we watch bq develope into an elite qb while we have shit to show for it..call me a homer but the fact is you dont trade a potential franchise qb thats a homeboy,a browns fan and never got a fair shot to see what he has for 2 drafts in a bush...to do so gaurantees mankok a quick ride out of town if he fails to move this team to the playoffs really fast..afterall its hard to sell tickets to a disenchanted fanbase when your new qb replaces a fan favorite and then loses..
Now lets picture DA just getting the job handed to him...is that some big anti-mankok signs close to all those empty seats i see there?
Thats all i can say if DA or our new qb falls flat on his face mankok better be ready to leave town in a hurry because a fools move like this instantly voids the honeymoon and i would have to look at a deal like this as a backscratching deal that benefits everyone but the browns fans and perhaps the browns themselves in the near future...as we watch bq develope into an elite qb while we have shit to show for it..call me a homer but the fact is you dont trade a potential franchise qb thats a homeboy,a browns fan and never got a fair shot to see what he has for 2 drafts in a bush...to do so gaurantees mankok a quick ride out of town if he fails to move this team to the playoffs really fast..afterall its hard to sell tickets to a disenchanted fanbase when your new qb replaces a fan favorite and then loses..
Now lets picture DA just getting the job handed to him...is that some big anti-mankok signs close to all those empty seats i see there?
in review.......
Mangini is not stupid enough to alienate 90% of the Browns fan-base by shipping out BQ before he's been exposed. The Nation needs to see it w/ their own eyes or they'll cry forever.
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Zombo said:
So basically we are trading Quinn for a first and second in this scenario?That's not bad. But I don't hate Anderson as much as the rest of you.
It's basically up to Mangini ... either he thinks Quinn is a franchise QB or he doesn't ... he needs to make that call.
Zombo
Anderson would do more than fine as the QB this season if he had too and even if he didn't it would give the Stains a real shot at rebuilding much sooner than later. Quinn is not the be all end all and certainly not the QB to "save" the franchise. He's not that good. Grabbing a 1st and a 2nd for him would be like hitting the lottery especially as others have pointed out that the Stains would have 2 1sts and 3 seconds. Nuts. I'd do it in a New York minute if I were a Browns fan.
Grabbing a 1st and a 2nd for him would be like hitting the lottery especially as others have pointed out that the Browns would have 2 1sts and 3 seconds. Nuts. I'd do it in a New York minute if I were a Browns fan.
sounds pretty expensive to me. do they have the cap room to sign that many that high?
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I don't see Denver trading Cutler straight up for Quinn. (This is the case if the Jets give up the picks.)
The Jets might do this deal. Do they think Cutler is worth a 1st/2nd? They might.
Browns would have to look long and hard at this. 1st and 2nd? That's massive value for any QB, especially one who has three starts under his belt.
I just don't see the Broncos parting with Cutler for this price tag. Not enough in return. (Unless they know something about Quinn that we don't.
)I don't see Denver trading Cutler straight up for Quinn. (This is the case if the Jets give up the picks.)
The Jets might do this deal. Do they think Cutler is worth a 1st/2nd? They might.
Browns would have to look long and hard at this. 1st and 2nd? That's massive value for any QB, especially one who has three starts under his belt.
I just don't see the Broncos parting with Cutler for this price tag. Not enough in return. (Unless they know something about Quinn that we don't.
)agreed. more likely IMO is the jets get cutler, we get a first, and the broncs get Quinn and the 2nd.
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Grabbing a 1st and a 2nd for him would be like hitting the lottery especially as others have pointed out that the Browns would have 2 1sts and 3 seconds. Nuts. I'd do it in a New York minute if I were a Browns fan.
sounds pretty expensive to me. do they have the cap room to sign that many that high?
sounds pretty expensive to me. do they have the cap room to sign that many that high?
I don't see why not. There is a HUGE dropoff in money somewhere around the 7th to 8th overall pick. A guy drafted in the teens will likely get a 5 year, $10 million deal with about 6 or so million guaranteed, unless your name is Kamerion Wimbley and the guy signing you is some newbie named Phil Savage, in which case you'd get a $4 million per year deal, although $6 million of that is in the last year of the deal.
-Al
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thanks Al.
kok/man has blown this team up more than i thought they would already. i'm pleased so far, whatever they do they get a wait and see from me.
i failed to read the entire thread before posting so apologies to whose who first posted thoughts that mirror my own.
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thanks Al.
kok/man has blown this team up more than i thought they would already. i'm pleased so far, whatever they do they get a wait and see from me.
i failed to read the entire thread before posting so apologies to whose who first posted thoughts that mirror my own.
thanks Al.
Wow, my numbers are from 2006 or something. I remembered that Thomas5737 posted last year's rookie deals recently, so I dug up the following post for you. It would still indicate that a mid - late 1st rounder and another 2nd rounder or two wouldn't leave us in a financial bind.
Pk Player Pos. Team Status Contract
1. Jake Long OT Miami Signed 5 years, $57.5 million ($30M guaranteed)
2. Chris Long DE St. Louis Signed 6 years, $56.5 million ($29M guaranteed)
3. Matt Ryan QB Atlanta Signed 6 years, $72 million ($34M guaranteed)
4. Darren McFadden RB Oakland Signed 6 years, $60 million ($26M guaranteed)
5. Glenn Dorsey DT Kansas City Signed 5 years, $51 million ($23M guaranteed)
6. Vernon Gholston DE N.Y. Jets Signed 5 years, $50 million ($21M guaranteed)
7. Sedrick Ellis DT New Orleans Signed 5 years, $49 million ($19.5M guaranteed)
8. Derrick Harvey DE Jacksonville Signed 5 years, $33.4 million ($17.177M guaranteed)
9. Keith Rivers LB Cincinnati Signed 6 years, $23 million ($15.6M guaranteed)
10. Jerod Mayo LB New England Signed 5 years, $18.9 million ($13.8M guaranteed)
11. Leodis McKelvin CB Buffalo Signed 5 years, $19.4 million ($12.6M guaranteed)
12. Ryan Clady OT Denver Signed 5 years, $17.5 million ($11.5M guaranteed)
13. Jonathan Stewart RB Carolina Signed 5 years, $20 million ($10.795M guaranteed)
14. Chris Williams OT Chicago Signed 5 years, $16 million ($10M guaranteed)
15. Branden Albert OG Kansas City Signed 5 years, $15.8 million ($9.2M guaranteed)
16. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB Arizona Signed 5 years, $15.1 million ($9M guaranteed)
17. Gosder Cherilus OT Detroit Signed 5 years, $15 million ($8.9M guaranteed)
18. Joe Flacco QB Baltimore Signed 5 years, $30 million ($8.75M guaranteed)
19. Jeff Otah OT Carolina Signed 5 years, $14.4 million ($8.965M guaranteed)
20. Aqib Talib CB Tampa Bay Signed 5 years, $14 million ($8.2M guaranteed)
21. Sam Baker OT Atlanta Signed 5 years, $13.5 million ($7.8M guaranteed)
22. Felix Jones RB Dallas Signed 5 years, $10.5 million ($8M guaranteed)
23. Rashard Mendenhall RB Pittsburgh Signed 5 years, $12.555 million ($7.125M guaranteed)
24. Chris Johnson RB Tennessee Signed 5 years, $12 million ($7M guaranteed)
25. Mike Jenkins CB Dallas Signed 5 years, $9.7 million ($7M guaranteed)
26. Duane Brown OT Houston Signed 5 years, $11.4 million ($6.5M guaranteed)
27. Antoine Cason CB San Diego Signed 5 years, $12.03 million
28. Lawrence Jackson DE Seattle Signed 5 years, $11.25 million ($6.1M guaranteed)
29. Kentwan Balmer DE San Francisco Signed 5 years, $11.5 million ($6M guaranteed)
30. Dustin Keller TE N.Y. Jets Signed 5 years, $12 million ($6M guaranteed)
31. Kenny Phillips FS N.Y. Giants Signed 5 years, $11.15 million
-Al
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I just don't see the Broncos parting with Cutler for this price tag. Not enough in return. (Unless they know something about Quinn that we don't.
)And this is what it comes down to. The bulk of Cutler's contract has already been paid, and his salary this year is almost nothing (by NFL starting QB standards, at least)....it's around 1.5 mil. They can afford to keep him on the shelf and treat him as a hold-out. I really don't see them trading him unless they get a JAW-DROPPINGLY FAVORABLE trade for them....and just getting Quinn is nowhere close to that.
Because of his contract status they have no NEED to trade him, but there has been a lot of interest generated. I think they're just listening to see if they get an amazing offer. Anything short of that and I think Cutler will still be a Donkey this fall.
And this is what it comes down to. The bulk of Cutler's contract has already been paid, and his salary this year is almost nothing (by NFL starting QB standards, at least)....it's around 1.5 mil. They can afford to keep him on the shelf and treat him as a hold-out. I really don't see them trading him unless they get a JAW-DROPPINGLY FAVORABLE trade for them....and just getting Quinn is nowhere close to that.
Because of his contract status they have no NEED to trade him, but there has been a lot of interest generated. I think they're just listening to see if they get an amazing offer. Anything short of that and I think Cutler will still be a Donkey this fall.
You will see McDaniels tonight on NFL Network (7PM EST, I believe) in an interview talking about how Cutler is their QB. He also says something along the lines of "nobody can predict the future" when asked if Cutler would be their QB in the future. They're definitely listening to offers, but it would seem they have every intention of holding on to him unless some team offers them the world.....which we don't have to offer.
Cutler can ask for a trade until he's blue in the face.....but it doesn't mean jack shit if there isn't a team offering what Denver would consider an acceptable trade.
They have him on the cheap for this year, so unless somebody offers A LOT he'll still be in Denver whether his whiny ass likes it or not.
IF anyone trades for Cutler, that team will most likely be on the short end of that deal, just because of the position Denver is in. They would have all the leverage. I just don't want us to be that team on the short end of a big trade, whether it involves Quinn or DA.
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The Jets would be that team....not us.
If the jets are hot for Cutler, and need us to be the conduit to that trade, we won't come up short.
We will end up with a first rounder plus.
A first rounder alone is more than Quinn is worth....players are like cars...they depreciate quickly as soon as that first season is done.
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The Jets would be that team....not us.
If the jets are hot for Cutler, and need us to be the conduit to that trade, we won't come up short.
We will end up with a first rounder plus.
A first rounder alone is more than Quinn is worth....players are like cars...they depreciate quickly as soon as that first season is done.
The Jets would be that team....not us.
If the jets are hot for Cutler, and need us to be the conduit to that trade, we won't come up short.
We will end up with a first rounder plus.
A first rounder alone is more than Quinn is worth....players are like cars...they depreciate quickly as soon as that first season is done.
In Kokinis's interview today at the owners meetings he said he isn't shopping Quinn or Anderson and expects them both to be in camp for a QB competition.
Now, who knows what that means.
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I saw that, and posted somewhere...
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