Who Would You Be ?
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To the comments relating to the "point" of this thread, or where it got to... this is all I can say.
My points were that: 1) Soccer is growing 2) Baseball is dying 3) Soccer is popular among the youth. Notably, more popular than baseball.
I never tried to refute the point that baseball is still currently more popular in the US
As far the the whole dangerous/physicality thing, that was in response to Steve originally, and then Gipper trying to take it too far. If you are going to debate which is more dangerous, I don't think looking at only the number of deaths (I assume by stray pitches to the dome) can be used to say one is more physical/dangerous than another. To debate this point, I posted two seperate sources of data showing college soccer and high school soccer having more injuries than their baseball counterparts. I also posted a another source showing soccer as having one of the highest concussion rates. I think these sources pretty much settled that, unless someone would like to post their own sources.
I found that most of Gipper's points were anecdotal or not backed by evidence. If he, or anyone else, wanted to actually dispute the first three points, be my guess.
I tried not to jump around in the points I was making. I was just disputing the points of other posters, which were all over the place at times. Props to anyone that actually read through the last couple of pages, haha.
You make points and conclusions based on your desire.
It has already been determined that the ONLY thing definitive that has been established is that many soccer players are Preening Pansies.
End of discussion.
You make points and conclusions based on your desire.
It has already been determined that the ONLY thing definitive that has been established is that many soccer players are Preening Pansies.
End of discussion.
No, I make points and conclusions based off of data and evidence. Every point I have made in this thread, it has been accompanied by data or another source that supports it. You though have not provided anything close to this. This is especially apparent in your declaration of "End of discussion". If I was trying to make counterpoints with no support at all, while the other side is destroying whatever I am trying to prove... I'd probably want it to end too.
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Baseball is a wholly unathletic sport compared to the rest. Requires little physical endurance and there's a low chance of serious injury from body to body physical contact. The main culprits of injury are self inflicted arm and shoulder injuries and deflected balls/hit by pitches. I also don't know of many athletes who started with baseball and transitioned to football...or basketball for that matter.
The greatest number of transitions seem to occur from football to another sport.
Deion was a slightly above average baseball player, very slightly.
Charlie Ward and Dave Winfield never played more than one professional sport, so that argument is irrelevant. You can't make the argument they would have excelled in the pros because you have no idea. If you did have an idea, you'd be employed by ESPN. Secondly, getting drafted by the MLB in any round outside of the first is hardly an an example of your athletic prowess. There's guys I've grown up with and still hang out with that were drafted and are wholly average at the sport.
Vsevolod Bobrov played olympic soccer and hockey for the USSR.
Peter Zezel played in the NHL and professional soccer.
Chris Bahr played professional football and soccer, as did his brother Matt.
Bruce Arena played olympic soccer and lacrosse.
Aldo Donelli is a member of the soccer Hall of Fame and played for the Steelers.
Taylor Twellman turned down a contract from the Royals to play college soccer, and then eventually olympic soccer.
Just because you don't know of people who played soccer as well as another professional sport doesn't mean they don't exist. If we limited everything we talked about to what you know, we'd be in for some very dull conversation.
Bobrov - 1950s
Zezel - 8 seconds in professional soccer
Bahrs - kickers, not football players
Arena - lacrosee, what's next curling?
Donelli - 1940s
Twellman - didn't play professional baseball
Hitting a baseball is very athletic as is throwing it, catching it and running after it. Stealing bases is very athletic as is playing defense, I'd put Mike Trout and Giancarlo Stanton up against any athlete in terms of strength, agility and speed.
If endurance was such a key component of overall athleticism we'd be talking about triathletes and marathon runners as being top dogs.
Concerning Ward and Winfield, my original point stated playing professional or collegiate sports at a high level. I'd consider a Heisman Trophy a greater accomplishment as being an awesome youth soccer player.
Bobrov - 1950s
Zezel - 8 seconds in professional soccer
Bahrs - kickers, not football players
Arena - lacrosee, what's next curling?
Donelli - 1940s
Twellman - didn't play professional baseball
Hitting a baseball is very athletic as is throwing it, catching it and running after it. Stealing bases is very athletic as is playing defense, I'd put Mike Trout and Giancarlo Stanton up against any athlete in terms of strength, agility and speed.
If endurance was such a key component of overall athleticism we'd be talking about triathletes and marathon runners as being top dogs.
Concerning Ward and Winfield, my original point stated playing professional or collegiate sports at a high level. I'd consider a Heisman Trophy a greater accomplishment as being an awesome youth soccer player.
Most people would consider being named the best player in all of college football a better accomplishment than being an "awesome youth soccer player"....
If we are talking overall athleticism, I'd take the average professional soccer player over the average professional baseball player any day of the week. But I guess that is part of the draw of baseball. Even a dude with a big beer gut can be a pro...
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Baseball is a wholly unathletic sport compared to the rest. Requires little physical endurance and there's a low chance of serious injury from body to body physical contact. The main culprits of injury are self inflicted arm and shoulder injuries and deflected balls/hit by pitches. I also don't know of many athletes who started with baseball and transitioned to football...or basketball for that matter.
The greatest number of transitions seem to occur from football to another sport.
Deion was a slightly above average baseball player, very slightly.
Charlie Ward and Dave Winfield never played more than one professional sport, so that argument is irrelevant. You can't make the argument they would have excelled in the pros because you have no idea. If you did have an idea, you'd be employed by ESPN. Secondly, getting drafted by the MLB in any round outside of the first is hardly an an example of your athletic prowess. There's guys I've grown up with and still hang out with that were drafted and are wholly average at the sport.
Vsevolod Bobrov played olympic soccer and hockey for the USSR.
Peter Zezel played in the NHL and professional soccer.
Chris Bahr played professional football and soccer, as did his brother Matt.
Bruce Arena played olympic soccer and lacrosse.
Aldo Donelli is a member of the soccer Hall of Fame and played for the Steelers.
Taylor Twellman turned down a contract from the Royals to play college soccer, and then eventually olympic soccer.
Just because you don't know of people who played soccer as well as another professional sport doesn't mean they don't exist. If we limited everything we talked about to what you know, we'd be in for some very dull conversation.
Bobrov - 1950s
Zezel - 8 seconds in professional soccer
Bahrs - kickers, not football players
Arena - lacrosee, what's next curling?
Donelli - 1940s
Twellman - didn't play professional baseball
Hitting a baseball is very athletic as is throwing it, catching it and running after it. Stealing bases is very athletic as is playing defense, I'd put Mike Trout and Giancarlo Stanton up against any athlete in terms of strength, agility and speed.
If endurance was such a key component of overall athleticism we'd be talking about triathletes and marathon runners as being top dogs.
Concerning Ward and Winfield, my original point stated playing professional or collegiate sports at a high level. I'd consider a Heisman Trophy a greater accomplishment as being an awesome youth soccer player.
Bobrov - 1950s - Doesn't negate the fact that it disproves your argument.
Zezel - 8 seconds in professional soccer - Doesn't negate the fact that it disproves your argument.
Bahrs - kickers, not football players - Did you play professional football? I assume you didn't, which means they are, at least, better "football players" than you.
Arena - lacrosee, what's next curling? - Ethnocentricism at it's best, ladies and gentlemen. Lacrosse is a tougher sport than football any day of the week. There's just no interest in it, because most dumb Americans can't understand it.
Donelli - 1940s - Doesn't negate the fact that it disproves your argument.
Twellman - didn't play professional baseball - Was offered a professional baseball contract. If you're arguing about guys who were drafted and never player, Twellman's just as legitimate of an example. If you'd like to discount your examples by removing Twellman from the argument, that's fine with me.
Hitting a baseball is very athletic as is throwing it, catching it and running after it. Stealing bases is very athletic as is playing defense, I'd put Mike Trout and Giancarlo Stanton up against any athlete in terms of strength, agility and speed.
If we're picking and choosing what aspects to compare, I'd put any professional soccer player up with any professional football player in terms of leg strength, endurance and juggling.
If endurance was such a key component of overall athleticism we'd be talking about triathletes and marathon runners as being top dogs.
It's one component, just as brute strength is. And I firmly believe that the upper-echelon of triathletes and marathon runners are much more athletic than most baseball players.
Concerning Ward and Winfield, my original point stated playing professional or collegiate sports at a high level. I'd consider a Heisman Trophy a greater accomplishment as being an awesome youth soccer player.
I'd consider playing two sports professionally a greater accomplishment than winning a Heisman trophy winner - that's why I named people who did do that. But if winning a Heisman is your end-all be-all for athleticism, I'm guessing you're crazy excited for Manziel, then. Good to know.
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