Which DB do we get rid of?
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Actually, we were talking about a few years from now...
The original post asked which DB we would have to get rid of this year, and wargograw suggested Williams. So I was talking about this year there. Then Unsympathetic said he would lose a step the next 3 years, and then I mentioned the Darrell Greene example.
The original post asked which DB we would have to get rid of this year, and wargograw suggested Williams. So I was talking about this year there. Then Unsympathetic said he would lose a step the next 3 years, and then I mentioned the Darrell Greene example.
In 2016 or 2017, that would leave us with 5 legitimate starting corners under contract, a top-10 FS under contract, and a top-10 SS under contract. So what do we do?
I guess I did say 2016, but I was thinking after NEXT season at the earliest. My assumption was K'Wuan has a solid year this year, as does Gilbert, then Ifo has a solid year next year (after his "redshirt"). They will all be under contract, except K'Wuan, who will be entering FA. T.Williams will also be entering FA, and I kind of just assume he'd be the one to go.
That would leave us with 5 guys (excluding Desir) under 30 that we can't all keep at a starting CB contract. At least one goes.
But you're right, I did say 2016 in my original post. My bad.
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The original post asked which DB we would have to get rid of this year, and wargograw suggested Williams. So I was talking about this year there. Then Unsympathetic said he would lose a step the next 3 years, and then I mentioned the Darrell Greene example.
In 2016 or 2017, that would leave us with 5 legitimate starting corners under contract, a top-10 FS under contract, and a top-10 SS under contract. So what do we do?
I guess I did say 2016, but I was thinking after NEXT season at the earliest. My assumption was K'Wuan has a solid year this year, as does Gilbert, then Ifo has a solid year next year (after his "redshirt"). They will all be under contract, except K'Wuan, who will be entering FA. T.Williams will also be entering FA, and I kind of just assume he'd be the one to go.
That would leave us with 5 guys (excluding Desir) under 30 that we can't all keep at a starting CB contract. At least one goes.
But you're right, I did say 2016 in my original post. My bad.
I guess I did say 2016, but I was thinking after NEXT season at the earliest. My assumption was K'Wuan has a solid year this year, as does Gilbert, then Ifo has a solid year next year (after his "redshirt"). They will all be under contract, except K'Wuan, who will be entering FA. T.Williams will also be entering FA, and I kind of just assume he'd be the one to go.
That would leave us with 5 guys (excluding Desir) under 30 that we can't all keep at a starting CB contract. At least one goes.
But you're right, I did say 2016 in my original post. My bad.
I am not sure that they should all be asking for starting CB money....if they are not starters.
Maybe they think they can go elsewhere for more I guess.
I guess pride falls before the almighty dollar.
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I guess I did say 2016, but I was thinking after NEXT season at the earliest. My assumption was K'Wuan has a solid year this year, as does Gilbert, then Ifo has a solid year next year (after his "redshirt"). They will all be under contract, except K'Wuan, who will be entering FA. T.Williams will also be entering FA, and I kind of just assume he'd be the one to go.
That would leave us with 5 guys (excluding Desir) under 30 that we can't all keep at a starting CB contract. At least one goes.
But you're right, I did say 2016 in my original post. My bad.
I am not sure that they should all be asking for starting CB money....if they are not starters.
Maybe they think they can go elsewhere for more I guess.
I guess pride falls before the almighty dollar.
I am not sure that they should all be asking for starting CB money....if they are not starters.
Maybe they think they can go elsewhere for more I guess.
I guess pride falls before the almighty dollar.
As is often the case - especially in this market. K'Wuan's contract year is 2016, Gilbert's is 2017, Ifo's is 2018 and Haden's is 2019. A general rule of thumb for young underpaid players is that you try to lock them down before their contract year - so they don't play lights out, get a big head, and test the market for an overpaying team.
CB's have inflated contracts and, the more the NFL transitions to the passing game, the higher those contracts will go. Having two top notch starting caliber CB's is going to eat up $18-$25 mil a year in cap room.
As it stands right now, we're already in the top 5 in CB spending - 14% of our cap is tied up in CB's. Haden is pulling in 12 mil this year against the cap. Tramon is pulling in an additional 7 mil. Gilbert counts another $3 mil. K'Wuan, who is likely our day one nickel CB, is luckily on his UDFA contract and is only counting 510k against the cap.
If K'Wuan has even a decent year as a starting nickel, I would expect him to get some sort of salary negotiation consideration from the FA. If they were smart, they'd lock him down this year if he proves to be worth it. I would value his contract somewhere in the 4 year/ $20 million range.
With Haden, Tramon, a resigned K'Wuan and Gilbert under contract for 2016, that will be roughly $26 mil against the cap between those four alone - enough to bump us into second in CB spending.
I can't imagine that we'd keep Tramon past his current contract, so someone will have to be groomed to replace him. That means that either Gilbert or Ifo will be getting significant spot duty in 2016 - my guess is on Gilbert. Then, based on the "sign a guy BEFORE his contract year rule of thumb" I like to abide, Gilbert would have to get some sort of extension or new contract in 2016. This would replace a departing Tramon's contract, so our cap hit should actually decrease by a few million with Tramon's departure.
Then we would go into 2017 with Haden, a resigned Gilbert, K'Wuan in his second year, and Ifo playing spot duty. If Ifo blows up, one of those contracts will likely have to be dumped. General GM logic would actually dictate that Haden's be dumped (oldest player, highest cap hit, least likely penalty) but that is a very touchy subject because Haden has been the one bright spot in a whole lot of Brown.
And...of course...none of this is factoring in Desir or any of the other current CB's we have that could prove to be diamonds in the rough.
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I dont any reason not to keep most of these guys, other than money.....which is why we gotta be smart about who gets how much and not overreact every time a player has a good season.....which is why so many players are overpaid....
Now that we actually have top talent, it becomes a real tricky dance to keep em all under the cap.... and players who suddenly flash a good season instantly want to be paid like they did it every year....heck, some folks want us to pay Gipson 10 mil after one good season(and a blown knee), when we can have him for 2-3m......other folks wanted us to pay Cameron 7m, when he only had half of a good season in 4 yrs......overrating(and overpaying) players isn't a good thing(even if they might walk)
Bottom line, there are gonna be some tough negotiations coming up and some changing faces(like Cameron, Skrine, etc) in order to maintain a balance between quality players and the salary cap....otherwise we will continue to have a lot of average talent, coupled with a few overpaid stars......
Right now, I only see one player on our team who seems to be vastly overpaid and thats Desmond Bryant......hopefully Farmer sticks to his guns and keeps it that way......
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Yep....better to get something than just to cut them......or keep them over another need, just because they are good....
I count 18 DB's on the roster right now and last year we carried 10.....and just the familiar name guys will quickly fill that out....
Haden, Desir, Williams 1, Williams 2, Gilbert, Gaines and Olomu.....thats 7 CB's.....
Whitner, Gipson, Campbell, Poyer and Bademosi.....thats 5 safeties.....
For 2015, I see Olomu on some kind of injury list and either Poyer or Bademosi gone.....and 2016, after another year of watching Williams/Desir/Gilbert is when I see the good trade possibilities coming to light.....
So, do we trade a front line starter and get something good or do we trade a second stringer with potential for ????
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Yep....better to get something than just to cut them......or keep them over another need, just because they are good....
I count 18 DB's on the roster right now and last year we carried 10.....and just the familiar name guys will quickly fill that out....
Haden, Desir, Williams 1, Williams 2, Gilbert, Gaines and Olomu.....thats 7 CB's.....
Whitner, Gipson, Campbell, Poyer and Bademosi.....thats 5 safeties.....
For 2015, I see Olomu on some kind of injury list and either Poyer or Bademosi gone.....and 2016, after another year of watching Williams/Desir/Gilbert is when I see the good trade possibilities coming to light.....
So, do we trade a front line starter and get something good or do we trade a second stringer with potential for ????
So, do we trade a front line starter and get something good or do we trade a second stringer with potential for ????
real good question. maybe the question will be answered if some team all-of-a-sudden has a key injury to a player such as we did with mack last year? see how they progress and partner player and draft pick to move up next year? i dunno.
i can't think of any other team out there that has the depth and potential at DB than the browns do.
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Yep....better to get something than just to cut them......or keep them over another need, just because they are good....
I count 18 DB's on the roster right now and last year we carried 10.....and just the familiar name guys will quickly fill that out....
Haden, Desir, Williams 1, Williams 2, Gilbert, Gaines and Olomu.....thats 7 CB's.....
Whitner, Gipson, Campbell, Poyer and Bademosi.....thats 5 safeties.....
For 2015, I see Olomu on some kind of injury list and either Poyer or Bademosi gone.....and 2016, after another year of watching Williams/Desir/Gilbert is when I see the good trade possibilities coming to light.....
So, do we trade a front line starter and get something good or do we trade a second stringer with potential for ????
.Yep....better to get something than just to cut them......or keep them over another need, just because they are good....
I count 18 DB's on the roster right now and last year we carried 10.....and just the familiar name guys will quickly fill that out....
Haden, Desir, Williams 1, Williams 2, Gilbert, Gaines and Olomu.....thats 7 CB's.....
Whitner, Gipson, Campbell, Poyer and Bademosi.....thats 5 safeties.....
For 2015, I see Olomu on some kind of injury list and either Poyer or Bademosi gone.....and 2016, after another year of watching Williams/Desir/Gilbert is when I see the good trade possibilities coming to light.....
So, do we trade a front line starter and get something good or do we trade a second stringer with potential for ????
Do you trade a Haden who is at the or just beyond his peak or a Williams who's ceiling might not yet be reached, but is still unknown?
The million dollar question.
Personally, I trade Haden if:
He's at or near 30.
He has a relatively high cap hit.
He's on the back end of his contract.
He's still constantly mentioned in conversation of "top" players, but he's not the top player.
He can warrant at least a first round pick in a trade.
There is solid depth behind him.
If all of those criteria are met, then I'd say trade Haden. That's what it would take for me to trade him - depth, at least a first round pick, and two-three mid level starters of cap room space.
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trading haden sounds blasphemous to me, but when all is said and done it IS still a biz.
just give him a couple more years to at least be here when the browns actually become contenders.
imagine guys like thomas and haden who have played their entire careers here, get traded and then the browns become perennial playoff contenders/winners? talk about suck.
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trading haden sounds blasphemous to me, but when all is said and done it IS still a biz.
just give him a couple more years to at least be here when the browns actually become contenders.
imagine guys like thomas and haden who have played their entire careers here, get traded and then the browns become perennial playoff contenders/winners? talk about suck.
Haden and Thomas are the only two Browns I would never consider trading unless it's absolutely, 100% a landslide deal in Cleveland's favor.trading haden sounds blasphemous to me, but when all is said and done it IS still a biz.
just give him a couple more years to at least be here when the browns actually become contenders.
imagine guys like thomas and haden who have played their entire careers here, get traded and then the browns become perennial playoff contenders/winners? talk about suck.
For Thomas, right now, it would require at least three first round picks plus a legitimate starter or high-ceiling young player.
For Haden, right now, it would require at least two first round picks, a mid round pick, plus a legitimate starter.
And even that's stretching it for me.
However, three or four years from now...that price will likely come down. If Cleveland isn't in any sort of position to win in, say, 2018 or so...I'd look to trade The Above Average Joe's to contenders. It's the least we could do. We'd recoup some value by way of future players, they'd get a chance at a ring, their new teams get solid, dependable, talented players.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Yup... no one is "off the table" beyond discussing in a trade IF you can clearly see his heir on the roster.
While Haden's heir is easier to see, the candidates are still just possibilities.
Joe's heir may not have even been born yet...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Yup... no one is "off the table" beyond discussing in a trade IF you can clearly see his heir on the roster.
While Haden's heir is easier to see, the candidates are still just possibilities.
Joe's heir may not have even been born yet...
Yup... no one is "off the table" beyond discussing in a trade IF you can clearly see his heir on the roster.
While Haden's heir is easier to see, the candidates are still just possibilities.
Joe's heir may not have even been born yet...
I'd love for Joe to play at the same level for the next 21 years.
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Haden and Thomas are the only two Browns I would never consider trading unless it's absolutely, 100% a landslide deal in Cleveland's favor.trading haden sounds blasphemous to me, but when all is said and done it IS still a biz.
just give him a couple more years to at least be here when the browns actually become contenders.
imagine guys like thomas and haden who have played their entire careers here, get traded and then the browns become perennial playoff contenders/winners? talk about suck.
For Thomas, right now, it would require at least three first round picks plus a legitimate starter or high-ceiling young player.
For Haden, right now, it would require at least two first round picks, a mid round pick, plus a legitimate starter.
And even that's stretching it for me.
However, three or four years from now...that price will likely come down. If Cleveland isn't in any sort of position to win in, say, 2018 or so...I'd look to trade The Above Average Joe's to contenders. It's the least we could do. We'd recoup some value by way of future players, they'd get a chance at a ring, their new teams get solid, dependable, talented players.
Haden and Thomas are the only two Browns I would never consider trading unless it's absolutely, 100% a landslide deal in Cleveland's favor.
For Thomas, right now, it would require at least three first round picks plus a legitimate starter or high-ceiling young player.
For Haden, right now, it would require at least two first round picks, a mid round pick, plus a legitimate starter.
And even that's stretching it for me.
However, three or four years from now...that price will likely come down. If Cleveland isn't in any sort of position to win in, say, 2018 or so...I'd look to trade The Above Average Joe's to contenders. It's the least we could do. We'd recoup some value by way of future players, they'd get a chance at a ring, their new teams get solid, dependable, talented players.
God I just want Joe Thomas to experience a winning, playoff team with Cleveland before his time is up. There isn't a better dude in the NFL and that man deserves to know the feeling of playoff football (of course we all do).
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