What the hell is going on in Cleveland?
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mz. said:
Look, I understand this is the popular feeling around here. Maybe it looks and feels better because it isn't what we have unsuccessfully been doing for the past couple of seasons, but feeling "great" about it is strange to me.Why? Because we haven't overpaid for a guy that his former team couldn't or wouldn't keep. I believe that one reason for 10-6 then 4-12 was injuries and no depth. First, you have to say the schedules were quite different. Then you need to acknowledge that we stayed fairly healthy in 2007 and were banged up in 2008 from the beginning of camp on. So, that's why I think what they are doing in FA is great. We spent on top FAs and had a good starting team on paper but we had zero depth at most positions. This is a league of injuries, you will have some over a 16 game schedule and you need to have depth to overcome injuries. When Holly went down, we had nobody. When Jones was down, we had nobody. When Stallworth went down, we had nobody. and every injury took someone off special teams and so and so on and so on.
This staff is putting some veteran pieces in place to help in case of injuries. Solid backups and role players that are afordable. I want to get players out of college and mold them to be Browns. We haven't had a team for awhile, we've had a bunch of players from all over just out there playing. Sometimes the best FAs just don't blend or fit your scheme.
JMHO
When Holly went down, we had nobody. When Jones was down, we had nobody. When Stallworth went down, we had nobody. and every injury took someone off special teams and so and so on and so on.
We have nobody behind Jones, and we don't even have Jones.
We are weaker at WR than last season. We signed a shitty CB.I'm down with what you're saying, and we seem to agree that the "Patriot Way" is the way to do things, but this seems like a team TRYING to emulate that philosophy but botching it. This is JMHO.
Chickenwang said:
It's to the point where I can't read this board anymoreLater.
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mz. said:
Look, I understand this is the popular feeling around here. Maybe it looks and feels better because it isn't what we have unsuccessfully been doing for the past couple of seasons, but feeling "great" about it is strange to me.Why? Because we haven't overpaid for a guy that his former team couldn't or wouldn't keep. I believe that one reason for 10-6 then 4-12 was injuries and no depth. First, you have to say the schedules were quite different. Then you need to acknowledge that we stayed fairly healthy in 2007 and were banged up in 2008 from the beginning of camp on. So, that's why I think what they are doing in FA is great. We spent on top FAs and had a good starting team on paper but we had zero depth at most positions. This is a league of injuries, you will have some over a 16 game schedule and you need to have depth to overcome injuries. When Holly went down, we had nobody. When Jones was down, we had nobody. When Stallworth went down, we had nobody. and every injury took someone off special teams and so and so on and so on.
This staff is putting some veteran pieces in place to help in case of injuries. Solid backups and role players that are afordable. I want to get players out of college and mold them to be Browns. We haven't had a team for awhile, we've had a bunch of players from all over just out there playing. Sometimes the best FAs just don't blend or fit your scheme.
JMHO
This staff is putting some veteran pieces in place to help in case of injuries. Solid backups and role players that are afordable. I want to get players out of college and mold them to be Browns. We haven't had a team for awhile, we've had a bunch of players from all over just out there playing. Sometimes the best FAs just don't blend or fit your scheme.
JMHO
We also don't know what their plan is and how far out they are thinking. Taking over a team like this, it's not going to be fixed in a year. They may already be thinking about next years draft and especially next year's FA market. Staying well under the cap this year and get a few FA's that are available next year.
But I also think you build the majority of your team through SOLID drafts. That means finding high quailty players in rounds 4 and 5 as well as 1 and 2.
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Woops, not 40yd pass to Braylon, I meant a 50 yd pass to Braylon.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80cb7085
Its at 1:50 in the video... he did it with a torn ligament Quinn haters, not only does he have an arm, but he's tough as nails
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Woops, not 40yd pass to Braylon, I meant a 50 yd pass to Braylon.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80cb7085
Its at 1:50 in the video... he did it with a torn ligament Quinn haters, not only does he have an arm, but he's tough as nails
Woops, not 40yd pass to Braylon, I meant a 50 yd pass to Braylon.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80cb7085
Its at 1:50 in the video... he did it with a torn ligament Quinn haters, not only does he have an arm, but he's tough as nails
More importantly, beginning at 1:00 (our first possession of the clip) look how fast Harrison gets to the edge. I mean it is the Texans, but isn't that Mario Wms' side? RB problem, solved.
Sure, luck means a lot in football. Not having a good quarterback is bad luck. -Don Shula -
Woops, not 40yd pass to Braylon, I meant a 50 yd pass to Braylon.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80cb7085
Its at 1:50 in the video... he did it with a torn ligament Quinn haters, not only does he have an arm, but he's tough as nails
More importantly, beginning at 1:00 (our first possession of the clip) look how fast Harrison gets to the edge. I mean it is the Texans, but isn't that Mario Wms' side? RB problem, solved.
More importantly, beginning at 1:00 (our first possession of the clip) look how fast Harrison gets to the edge. I mean it is the Texans, but isn't that Mario Wms' side? RB problem, solved.
I agree with you again Legacy! I think this kid could could be OK.
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When Holly went down, we had nobody. When Jones was down, we had nobody. When Stallworth went down, we had nobody. and every injury took someone off special teams and so and so on and so on.
We have nobody behind Jones, and we don't even have Jones.
We are weaker at WR than last season. We signed a shitty CB.I'm down with what you're saying, and we seem to agree that the "Patriot Way" is the way to do things, but this seems like a team TRYING to emulate that philosophy but botching it. This is JMHO.
Chickenwang said:
It's to the point where I can't read this board anymoreLater.
mz. said:
We have nobody behind Jones, and we don't even have Jones. We are weaker at WR than last season. We signed a shitty CB.
I'm down with what you're saying, and we seem to agree that the "Patriot Way" is the way to do things, but this seems like a team TRYING to emulate that philosophy but botching it. This is JMHO.
Later.
I'm just saying you are a full month from the draft. There are trades to be made FAs still to sign and hopefully some more draft picks to acquire. We signed two CBs and Ivy can still play and Poteat needs to prove he can make the team. They have brought in a CB or two for private workouts. They are bringing in a SS for a private workout.
Chill man, you can tell us how shitty we are after the draft.
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mz. said:
We have nobody behind Jones, and we don't even have Jones. We are weaker at WR than last season. We signed a shitty CB.
I'm down with what you're saying, and we seem to agree that the "Patriot Way" is the way to do things, but this seems like a team TRYING to emulate that philosophy but botching it. This is JMHO.
Later.
I'm just saying you are a full month from the draft. There are trades to be made FAs still to sign and hopefully some more draft picks to acquire. We signed two CBs and Ivy can still play and Poteat needs to prove he can make the team. They have brought in a CB or two for private workouts. They are bringing in a SS for a private workout.
Chill man, you can tell us how shitty we are after the draft.
Chill man, you can tell us how shitty we are after the draft.
I'm perfectly entitled to not like what I see, and so far I do not.
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Sure i can......and BQ isn't as good as Manning, so it makes it easier.
Manning wasn't passed over by 21 teams.
I know we may like to think it, but these other teams aren't run by idiots. Add in the fact savage's draft record isn't stellar....well...there you have it.
What I said doesn't mean he has to be great, but he is a 3rd year player now.....I am not willing to waste 2 more season on the guy.....he got benched for Anderson last year.
What does that say???
The guy that went with Anderson is now unemployed.
What does that say?
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Woops, not 40yd pass to Braylon, I meant a 50 yd pass to Braylon.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80cb7085
Its at 1:50 in the video... he did it with a torn ligament Quinn haters, not only does he have an arm, but he's tough as nails
Woops, not 40yd pass to Braylon, I meant a 50 yd pass to Braylon.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80cb7085
Its at 1:50 in the video... he did it with a torn ligament Quinn haters, not only does he have an arm, but he's tough as nails
which just shows it wasn't the finger that got him benched...it was the decision-making.
thanks for the help making our point PGL.
in Quinn's defense though, that part of the game can still be learned....but not from the sidelines.
it's all up to him now. we shall see.
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Woops, not 40yd pass to Braylon, I meant a 50 yd pass to Braylon.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80cb7085
Its at 1:50 in the video... he did it with a torn ligament Quinn haters, not only does he have an arm, but he's tough as nails
More importantly, beginning at 1:00 (our first possession of the clip) look how fast Harrison gets to the edge. I mean it is the Texans, but isn't that Mario Wms' side? RB problem, solved.
More importantly, beginning at 1:00 (our first possession of the clip) look how fast Harrison gets to the edge. I mean it is the Texans, but isn't that Mario Wms' side? RB problem, solved.
was he turning the corner or just running for his life to the sidelines?
i agree he has the tools but watch him, every play he takes it out of bounds and generally tries to avoid contact. this was not the best example but it is a big issue w/ this guy. he seems to be a bit of a pussy when it comes to getting those extra couple yards. it's glaring to me, curious how most don't even notice.
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Eli Manning?
It took him how long?
You cant ditch Quinn after 2 games, more like 2 full seasons
Sure i can......and BQ isn't as good as Manning, so it makes it easier.
Manning wasn't passed over by 21 teams.
I know we may like to think it, but these other teams aren't run by idiots. Add in the fact savage's draft record isn't stellar....well...there you have it.
What I said doesn't mean he has to be great, but he is a 3rd year player now.....I am not willing to waste 2 more season on the guy.....he got benched for Anderson last year.
What does that say???
Sure i can......and BQ isn't as good as Manning, so it makes it easier.
Manning wasn't passed over by 21 teams.
I know we may like to think it, but these other teams aren't run by idiots. Add in the fact savage's draft record isn't stellar....well...there you have it.
What I said doesn't mean he has to be great, but he is a 3rd year player now.....I am not willing to waste 2 more season on the guy.....he got benched for Anderson last year.
What does that say???
And how would we know bq isnt as good as manning?
Ive watched bq play a lot of games at ND and i can tell you he had no line ,RBs or WRs and still made things happen manning on the otherhand had a full package..now enter 2 wasted years because rac was drunk on DAs arm strenth and absolutely blind to DAs weaknesses and a finger injury 2 games into bqs start and we cant honestly say bq is or isnt going to be the franchise savior..
We do know he looked really poised and in control for a bench rookie and he was given the start this year by rac if he were around and that speaks volumes in and of itself..
As for what mankok is doing ballpeen is correct they are looking at every option and possibility and keeping everyone guessing as they explore the possibilities but by training camp i suspect we will still have rogers,bq,da and even butterfingers against what most think..unless there is an offer made for one of them that favors the browns heavily we wont trade any of them but we will trade the qb that doesnt get the start..
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Woops, not 40yd pass to Braylon, I meant a 50 yd pass to Braylon.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80cb7085
Its at 1:50 in the video... he did it with a torn ligament Quinn haters, not only does he have an arm, but he's tough as nails
which just shows it wasn't the finger that got him benched...it was the decision-making.
thanks for the help making our point PGL.
in Quinn's defense though, that part of the game can still be learned....but not from the sidelines.
it's all up to him now. we shall see.
which just shows it wasn't the finger that got him benched...it was the decision-making.
thanks for the help making our point PGL.
holy shit...someones payin attention!
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More importantly, beginning at 1:00 (our first possession of the clip) look how fast Harrison gets to the edge. I mean it is the Texans, but isn't that Mario Wms' side? RB problem, solved.
was he turning the corner or just running for his life to the sidelines?
i agree he has the tools but watch him, every play he takes it out of bounds and generally tries to avoid contact. this was not the best example but it is a big issue w/ this guy. he seems to be a bit of a pussy when it comes to getting those extra couple yards. it's glaring to me, curious how most don't even notice.
was he turning the corner or just running for his life to the sidelines?
i agree he has the tools but watch him, every play he takes it out of bounds and generally tries to avoid contact. this was not the best example but it is a big issue w/ this guy. he seems to be a bit of a pussy when it comes to getting those extra couple yards. it's glaring to me, curious how most don't even notice.
from NFL.com:
72 yd TD run, Off-tackle vs Bills
The entire center of the field is closing in on the hole he sees at the left hashmark and he bolts through it anyway (complete with contact!
)The look on RAC's face after the TD is priceless (0:24). During the game, I turned to my dad and said, "I bet he just asked for a media guide to find out who #35 is"
Or:
Pay particular attention to the replays & watch where his facemask looks in slow-mo. His vision is sick.
Or:
Sure, luck means a lot in football. Not having a good quarterback is bad luck. -Don Shula -
@jadbf said:
Just my two cents here. What I also see with these signings are them bringing in guys who are "their" guys who will be in sync with their philosophy and be expected to work in the locker room to get the rest of the team to "buy in" to mangini's way.A guy like Patton can go a long way in showing BE how things are going to be done under this new regime, and hopefully convince him to put his full effort into it.
What happens when the Browns end up having a winning season this year? Is everyone going to jump on the bandwagon and say they knew it the whole time and always had faith in Mangini?
Any given Sunday. I think we will have a winning season.
Predicted Records:2010: 8-82011: 8-82012: 9-72013: 5-112014: 6-10 -
was he turning the corner or just running for his life to the sidelines?
i agree he has the tools but watch him, every play he takes it out of bounds and generally tries to avoid contact. this was not the best example but it is a big issue w/ this guy. he seems to be a bit of a pussy when it comes to getting those extra couple yards. it's glaring to me, curious how most don't even notice.
from NFL.com:
72 yd TD run, Off-tackle vs Bills
The entire center of the field is closing in on the hole he sees at the left hashmark and he bolts through it anyway (complete with contact!
)The look on RAC's face after the TD is priceless (0:24). During the game, I turned to my dad and said, "I bet he just asked for a media guide to find out who #35 is"
Or:
Pay particular attention to the replays & watch where his facemask looks in slow-mo. His vision is sick.
Or:
from NFL.com:
72 yd TD run, Off-tackle vs Bills
The entire center of the field is closing in on the hole he sees at the left hashmark and he bolts through it anyway (complete with contact!
)The look on RAC's face after the TD is priceless (0:24). During the game, I turned to my dad and said, "I bet he just asked for a media guide to find out who #35 is"
Or:
Pay particular attention to the replays & watch where his facemask looks in slow-mo. His vision is sick.
Or:
i want him to work out too Legacy.
if they had him returning some kicks i really think it would have been a good move, towards both toughening him up and utilizing his jukes and vision.
he still runs out of bounds every time he's not breaking one though.
still, it's redeemable, and we've got him.
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from NFL.com:
72 yd TD run, Off-tackle vs Bills
The entire center of the field is closing in on the hole he sees at the left hashmark and he bolts through it anyway (complete with contact!
)The look on RAC's face after the TD is priceless (0:24). During the game, I turned to my dad and said, "I bet he just asked for a media guide to find out who #35 is"
Or:
Pay particular attention to the replays & watch where his facemask looks in slow-mo. His vision is sick.
Or:
i want him to work out too Legacy.
if they had him returning some kicks i really think it would have been a good move, towards both toughening him up and utilizing his jukes and vision.
he still runs out of bounds every time he's not breaking one though.
still, it's redeemable, and we've got him.
i want him to work out too Legacy.
if they had him returning some kicks i really think it would have been a good move, towards both toughening him up and utilizing his jukes and vision.
he still runs out of bounds every time he's not breaking one though.
still, it's redeemable, and we've got him.
Yeah, I know that you do. I was just providing some evidence to support a generalization that you'd be hard-pressed to find any pussies in the NFL. Northcrud, maybe, but not too many.
As the tape shows, he's got speed & vision, I'm just not so sure what cutting back into 3 pursuing LB's & a DE that you just made look silly 5 yards ago would accomplish outside of shortening your career. In the rare instance we get ahead late in a game, then obviously he needs to learn how to trip over his shoelaces before running out-of-bounds.
Arbitrarily running into guys who are trying to tackle you only helps them out, imo. Unless you're Brandon Jacobs - who easily has 50-60 lbs on our boy here- and even he isn't Tecmo-BO, and still gets brought down.
*edit* That said, I do (and always have) love the smash-mouth running potential that JL has. Make him our short yardage guy, that way he doesnt feel the need to "shorten the chains" or take time off the clock, or block on pass-plays, etc. Line him up 4yds behind the QB, and just have him cross that line that's 2-3 yds away. Either the goal line or the 1st down line. Restructure his (no-doubt) feature back deal into a TD/1st down deal.
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i want him to work out too Legacy.
if they had him returning some kicks i really think it would have been a good move, towards both toughening him up and utilizing his jukes and vision.
he still runs out of bounds every time he's not breaking one though.
still, it's redeemable, and we've got him.
Yeah, I know that you do. I was just providing some evidence to support a generalization that you'd be hard-pressed to find any pussies in the NFL. Northcrud, maybe, but not too many.
As the tape shows, he's got speed & vision, I'm just not so sure what cutting back into 3 pursuing LB's & a DE that you just made look silly 5 yards ago would accomplish outside of shortening your career. In the rare instance we get ahead late in a game, then obviously he needs to learn how to trip over his shoelaces before running out-of-bounds.
Arbitrarily running into guys who are trying to tackle you only helps them out, imo. Unless you're Brandon Jacobs - who easily has 50-60 lbs on our boy here- and even he isn't Tecmo-BO, and still gets brought down.
*edit* That said, I do (and always have) love the smash-mouth running potential that JL has. Make him our short yardage guy, that way he doesnt feel the need to "shorten the chains" or take time off the clock, or block on pass-plays, etc. Line him up 4yds behind the QB, and just have him cross that line that's 2-3 yds away. Either the goal line or the 1st down line. Restructure his (no-doubt) feature back deal into a TD/1st down deal.
Yeah, I know that you do. I was just providing some evidence to support a generalization that you'd be hard-pressed to find any pussies in the NFL. Northcrud, maybe, but not too many.
As the tape shows, he's got speed & vision, I'm just not so sure what cutting back into 3 pursuing LB's & a DE that you just made look silly 5 yards ago would accomplish outside of shortening your career. In the rare instance we get ahead late in a game, then obviously he needs to learn how to trip over his shoelaces before running out-of-bounds.
Arbitrarily running into guys who are trying to tackle you only helps them out, imo. Unless you're Brandon Jacobs - who easily has 50-60 lbs on our boy here- and even he isn't Tecmo-BO, and still gets brought down.
*edit* That said, I do (and always have) love the smash-mouth running potential that JL has. Make him our short yardage guy, that way he doesnt feel the need to "shorten the chains" or take time off the clock, or block on pass-plays, etc. Line him up 4yds behind the QB, and just have him cross that line that's 2-3 yds away. Either the goal line or the 1st down line. Restructure his (no-doubt) feature back deal into a TD/1st down deal.
I've always said that Franco Harris was famous for running out of bounds. Yet he was a great back.
I'm with Legacy on this one....Unless you are trying to get another foot for a first down then I have no problem with running out of bounds. Save yourself the pounding so you don't end up like Earl Campbell.
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@jadbf said:
Just my two cents here. What I also see with these signings are them bringing in guys who are "their" guys who will be in sync with their philosophy and be expected to work in the locker room to get the rest of the team to "buy in" to mangini's way.A guy like Patton can go a long way in showing BE how things are going to be done under this new regime, and hopefully convince him to put his full effort into it.
What happens when the Browns end up having a winning season this year? Is everyone going to jump on the bandwagon and say they knew it the whole time and always had faith in Mangini?
Any given Sunday. I think we will have a winning season.
What happens when the Browns end up having a winning season this year? Is everyone going to jump on the bandwagon and say they knew it the whole time and always had faith in Mangini?
Any given Sunday. I think we will have a winning season.
You are posting at the home of bandwagon fans
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That's called playing "mind games" with other teams.
That's called playing "mind games" with other teams.
No teams are being fooled by such "mind games" - it's apparent to everyone that either Quinn or Anderson are up for trade.
Browns fans shouldn't assume that the best QB stays in Cleveland. The one who wins could well be traded for the higher draft pick, leaving the 2nd place - but potentially only slighltly less mediocre QB to play for the Browns.
And that's not necessarilly an unwise thing to do...
But of course McDaniels is attempting to play the same sort of "mind games" by saying Cutler's their QB, and no one is fooled by that either... one wonders if Mangini, who has been gun shy about big deals since joining the Browns, would pull the trigger on such a trade.
Personally, I don't see that you guys have anything to lose... add Cutler and I think you could sneak up on some teams and win a bunch of games. Neither Brady nor Anderson give me that feeling about this team.
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@jadbf said:
Just my two cents here. What I also see with these signings are them bringing in guys who are "their" guys who will be in sync with their philosophy and be expected to work in the locker room to get the rest of the team to "buy in" to mangini's way.A guy like Patton can go a long way in showing BE how things are going to be done under this new regime, and hopefully convince him to put his full effort into it.
What happens when the Browns end up having a winning season this year? Is everyone going to jump on the bandwagon and say they knew it the whole time and always had faith in Mangini?
Any given Sunday. I think we will have a winning season.
What happens when the Browns end up having a winning season this year? Is everyone going to jump on the bandwagon and say they knew it the whole time and always had faith in Mangini?
Any given Sunday. I think we will have a winning season.
Most may not agree with me but I'd be shocked if the Browns didn't go 7-9 or 8-8. That's not a homer speaking. That looking at the schedule and coming to a simple conclusion....Oakland, Buffalo, Kansas City, Jacksonville, Detroit, Denver, Cincy twice. I think the Browns could win 7 damn near by accident. You could even see another 10-6 type of year.
That's why we saw Atlanta and Miami do what they did this year. Miami goes from 1-15 to a miraculous 11-5!!
The wonder of the NFL scheduling formula!
A lot of the experts will picking Miami to be something like 11-5 or 12-4 in 2009. My guess is they'll be 7-9 or 8-8 at best.
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