Trade Bait

gftChris

Sure, most likely nothing's going to happen. Just passing the time...

The Gipper

@gftchris said:
Sure, most likely nothing's going to happen. Just passing the time...

Do these kinds of trades happen often/occasionally in the EPL?

gftChris

@the-gipper said:
Do these kinds of trades happen often/occasionally in the EPL?

Completely different system.

The Gipper

@gftchris said:
Completely different system.

So, you are saying that player trades between teams are never made?

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@the-gipper said:

Trades of the type you are suggesting are rare in the NFL. That is more of a MLB or NBA thing.

The exception is around draft time....and if a trade goes down it usually involves a draft pick.

Here is a link to the NFL trades made this year....again, almost all draft related.

Not saying it can't happen at this point....it just usually doesn't.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25165330/2015-nfl-trades

Eh, they're not as rare for later round picks, to be honest.

There's not going to be many trades this year because the first NFL team just opened up training camp today. But if you look at last year (June-October) there's probably around 20 or so trades that went down from the beginning of training camp until about Week 5.

Here's a small sampling:

Houston traded TJ Yates for Akeem Dent.
Baltimore traded the rights to Rolando McClain to Dallas.
NE traded Ryan Mallett to Houston.
Tennessee traded Lavar Edwards to Dallas.
Indianapolis traded Marcus Burley to Seattle.
NE traded Logan Mankins to Tampa Bay.
TB traded Mark Barron to St. Louis.
Seattle traded Percy Harvin to New York.

I singled those trades out because they are similar to trades that we could make over the next few months.

Marcus Burley was an undrafted CB who had a solid camp for the Colts and the Seahawks came knocking. This could be similar to any one of our DL or our CB's if they have a solid showing.
Lavar Edwards was a depth DE for the Titans who played mediocre in his seven games in 2013. Dallas, however, was severely lacking depth and offered a late rounder for Edwards to help fill out their roster. This could happen with Winn or Meder or any one of our questionable-to-make-the-team DL if we hold on to a few of them or if they have a solid camp.
Percy Harvin was a troubled, talented receiver who had limited playing time in his career and was shipped off because his upside just wasn't worth his downside. That could be a similar trade for Gordon (not in this offseason, mind you).
Mark Barron was a hugely talented, young, first-round defensive back who stagnated in TB, then got a second chance in a new system in St. Louis. That could be a similar trade for Gilbert if he doesn't perform up to snuff or if Williams, Desir, et al prove to be solid CB's.
Logan Mankins was a perennial Pro Bowl guard for the Patriots for his entire career, but the Patriots ended up cutting ties with him in order to move on with a younger player at the position. That could be similar to an Alex Mack trade (highly unlikely, though, due to his contract situation).
TJ Yates was a decently successful college QB with some grit who was destined to be a perennial backup, yet got some playing time due to injury and performed admirably. This could be a similar situation to Shaw, if a team comes calling with the right offer.
Ryan Mallet was a very talented player coming out of college who sat behind a future HOF QB. This is very similar to nobody in Cleveland because we've never had a situation like this before. I just threw it up here for shiggles.

Realistically, I could see us dumping a DL for a 5th-7th round pick and an RB for a 5th-7th round pick. If Winston shines, our depth CB's perform well and our stable of DL prove to be capable, we could find ourselves in the position of trading a few solid players and still being able to round out a talented 53.

gftChris

@the-gipper said:
So, you are saying that player trades between teams are never made?

There's no draft, so there's not really anything to trade. Players are purchased for money. Occasionally you'll get player + cash deals, and extremely rarely you'll get player for player swaps, though I don't really remember any.

The Gipper

@gftchris said:
There's no draft, so there's not really anything to trade. Players are purchased for money. Occasionally you'll get player + cash deals, and extremely rarely you'll get player for player swaps, though I don't really remember any.

In other words....it is no fun for fans to engage in the kind of speculation we do here about player trades.

It is all free agency: who are we going to buy?

While we have an interest in that.....speculating on trades in the big thing here.....expecially in baseball. Some in basketball.....and despite what TCPO related...it is still a very minor issue with the NFL.....except for the draft as noted.

The Gipper

Ryan Mallet was a very talented player coming out of college who sat behind a future HOF QB. This is very similar to nobody in Cleveland because we've never had a situation like this before. I just threw it up here for shiggles.

You never know....it could become similar to JFF....(without the HOFer in front of him)

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@the-gipper said:

Ryan Mallet was a very talented player coming out of college who sat behind a future HOF QB. This is very similar to nobody in Cleveland because we've never had a situation like this before. I just threw it up here for shiggles.
You never know....it could become similar to JFF....(without the HOFer in front of him)

That's kind of what I was going for, although I thought it might get people in a riot over trading an "unknown commodity".

wargograw

Get something for one of the corners for sure.

MLD Woody

Assuming you can manage all of the egos, why not just keep the depth at this point? Unless you see a major weakness at one position

Why not rotate through three HBs? We aren't going to be beating anyone through the air.

MLD Woody

@the-gipper said:

In other words....it is no fun for fans to engage in the kind of speculation we do here about player trades.

It is all free agency: who are we going to buy?

While we have an interest in that.....speculating on trades in the big thing here.....expecially in baseball. Some in basketball.....and despite what TCPO related...it is still a very minor issue with the NFL.....except for the draft as noted.

You just seem to be reaching for ways to insult soccer now, haha

calfoxwc

Soccer deserves to be insulted - the name of it is offensive.

Implies domestic violence. Bad, bad, bad.

And it's a silly game - a cross between rugby, field hockey, ping pong and tennis.

Nah.

Flugel

@gftchris said:

Who do you see as potentially surplus, why, and how much would you be looking for in exchange?

For example, if you think Glenn Winston is a secret weapon, you might look to get T-West out for a 2 or a 3. Maybe you think there's too many bodies on the DL, so Kitchen gets us a 5th.

To be honest, teams that have as many empty cupboards as full cupboards are more in need of trade bait than we are today.

There isn't anything anyone can give up that upgrades what we have unless somebody inexplicably has 2 accurate starting caliber kickers that we can exploit. Kicker is my biggest worry today. While Tom Brady was once very willing to fumble a playoff game away to the Raiders in the snow before somebody pulled a tuck rule outta their ass to save his hyde - that game isn't won without Adam Vinatieri's accurate foot. When NE had to replace him, they prioritized drafting a kicker. On the other hand, Indy could have beaten Pittsburgh in the playoffs if they didn't have what Peyton termed "An Idiot Kicker!"

Flugel

@wargograw said:
Get something for one of the corners for sure.

That's risky IMO. Here's why. What happens if Joe Haden twists an ankle right after we trade somebody capable of filling in? The prequisite to that question includes the understanding we lost a 2014 starter at corner to FA while our 1st round corner has been much maligned until his play says otherwise.

As much as Tramon Williams can be an upgrade to Skrine - he also has the wear and tear of a 9 year vet at an age guys are prone to losing a step or 2. He's a great stop gap idea; but our problem solve if Gilbert doesn't pan out seems to be Ekpre-Olomu (who will prolly get an injury red-shirted as a rookie in 2015).

wargograw

Well isn't that a risk with any trade? Of course guys could get hurt. That's what the depth is for. Gilbert was better than people think last season. We have Gaines, Ifo, and yes the two Williams AND Haden. We can absolutely afford to unload one.

Also, as to your second to last post: Deandre Hopkins for Justin Gilbert? That upgrades what we have.

Mudfly

Yeah, I wouldnt be so fast to trade anyone, unless there's a good "need" player on the other side of that trade...

And Id keep all the DB's right now. We have no idea what Gaines and Olomu bring yet.....or Gilbert, ftm......Id wait, especially with Williams on the backside of his career,,,,

If Im trading anyone, Id consider DL(+ anyone who could be cut) and maybe a RB......Taylor and D. Bryant are 2 large salaries who may bring us a decent pick or player in exchange.......and, maybe? Terrence West?.....could prolly recoup our 3rd if we feel good about the other guys.....but those are the only ones I can think of....( and maybe Billy Winn?)

The rest Id keep.....depth is good and were not in salary trouble, so lets not trade just to trade.....

The Gipper

@mld-woody said:
You just seem to be reaching for ways to insult soccer now, haha

No....I can find ways to insult soccer that have nothing to do with how player movement is run.

I was asking if the EPL and other leagues conduct trades like the sports here do......and the answer is apparently not.

My understanding is that essentially everything is done like the free agent market here in that sport:

No draft, no trades. Essentially everyone is a FA when their contract expires.....or for new players, whoever the highest bidder is for that person's services.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Does the MLS operate more on the European....open market system.....or on the US....draft/trade...system?

The Gipper

@mudfly said:

Yeah, I wouldnt be so fast to trade anyone, unless there's a good "need" player on the other side of that trade...

And Id keep all the DB's right now. We have no idea what Gaines and Olomu bring yet.....or Gilbert, ftm......Id wait, especially with Williams on the backside of his career,,,,

If Im trading anyone, Id consider DL(+ anyone who could be cut) and maybe a RB......Taylor and D. Bryant are 2 large salaries who may bring us a decent pick or player in exchange.......and, maybe? Terrence West?.....could prolly recoup our 3rd if we feel good about the other guys.....but those are the only ones I can think of....( and maybe Billy Winn?)

The rest Id keep.....depth is good and were not in salary trouble, so lets not trade just to trade.....

Well, the OP asks if there is anyone on this roster that is "Trade Bait".....the answer actually could be:

EVERYONE on the roster is trade bait practically......for the right trade.

Would we trade Joe Thomas for Aaron Rodgers.....probably.

Would we trade Vince Mayle for Calvin Johnson.....undoubtedly.

So, it all depends on what is being offered.

gftChris

@the-gipper said:

No....I can find ways to insult soccer that have nothing to do with how player movement is run.

I was asking if the EPL and other leagues conduct trades like the sports here do......and the answer is apparently not.

My understanding is that essentially everything is done like the free agent market here in that sport:

No draft, no trades. Essentially everyone is a FA when their contract expires.....or for new players, whoever the highest bidder is for that person's services.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Does the MLS operate more on the European....open market system.....or on the US....draft/trade...system?

Surprisingly, you are wrong. When I said "buying" players, that doesn't happen exclusively at the end of the contract. Actually, that's usually the exception. Most players are bought, for money. As in, "we'll give you $100m for Messi" - like buying a house or whatever, the negotiations will go from there. Frequently the answer will just be "no." So at any given point, any team could (in theory) sign any player from anywhere. Add in the limitless number of leagues in the world, and the fact that you can sign a player from anywhere, you actually get tons more speculation than you do in football.

For example, you could look at four or five positions that need to be upgraded, you can say "we can sell these guys, we'll probably get around $20m for them; we have an initial $40m to spend, so now we have $60m. we can get players x ($5m), y ($15m), z ($22m) and that leaves us $7m to find the final player" - there are so many possible permutations, because there's no salary cap, no transfer cap - by number of players or money - so there's limitless possibilities.

I'm not saying that's better - it creates a very uneven playing field for the teams, especially since prize money and tv money isn't distributed evenly and goes to the higher placed clubs, so they cement their status. But at this time of year (off-season) it does give plenty of scope for the dreamers to dream, and the realists to piss all over it, and then for a player to say "actually, I want to leave now" and leaving on the final day of the offseason throwing the season's plans in to disarray (players have a lot more power).