Unofficial official preseason WR thread...
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It would be great if Pryor did somehow pull a decent WR career out of a failed QB career.
It would be great if Pryor did somehow pull a decent WR career out of a failed QB career.
well he could always get a job a CRUNCH gym.
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It would be great if Pryor did somehow pull a decent WR career out of a failed QB career.
It would be great if Pryor did somehow pull a decent WR career out of a failed QB career.
Pryor is making all of the right moves, that's for sure.
Training with Randy Moss - check.
Training with Steve Smith - check.
Training with Antonio Brown - check.
Training with Mike Evans - check.
He's got them all covered. A former great #1 destined for the Hall of Fame. A current great #1 at the tail end of his career. A current great #1 just hitting his stride. A future great #1 that is just beginning his career. And a potential great #1 that smoked himself out of the league.
I am very intrigued by Pryor. His footwork is hot garbage as of right now, but three weeks ago it was molten garbage - so there's a slight improvement.
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Ok....lets talk WR, because it is a bit congested at the back end and should prove to be one of the deeper competitions during TC.....
First....last year we carried only 5, so if 5 is the number, it's gonna be tight picking the last one(or 2)...and before suggesting we keep an extra, keep in mind there is much talk about keeping and extra DB and DL based upon the depth at those positions.....plus talk about keeping an extra QB(3) to protect Shaw and make sure we have the depth at back up...so if we keep 3 extra at those positions, little chance well be keeping 6 WR's......
I see 3 guys as shoo-ins to make the team.....Hawkins, Gabriel and Bowe should be the top 3...
5 Next level guys are fighting for those other 2 spots.....Benjiman, Mayle, Hartline, Moore & Pryor
Then, we have another couple presumably promising up and comers in Rodney Smith & Josh Lenz
And the looooong shots of Wynn, Jennings & Cone
So.....ten guys fighting for 2 spots(basically).....
I dont have a prediction on these guys, cause we just haven't seen them yet...but some thoughts.....
Mayle is one I hope flashes and shows he is good enough to keep around. His size and numbers would be a nice fit......
Hartline looks like a nice veteran pick up, but then again, so did Nate Burleson last season(could it be the same story line?).....I say thats a possibility......haven't really heard a peep about him so far, which maybe doesnt mean much.....but then again, if we was lighting it up, I think we'd hear about it...
Pryor is one we've discussed. A long shot, but uber talented and a major threat to score every time he touches the ball. Could be the dark horse here.
Benjiman is one I see losing out here. Unless he explodes as a returner during preseason.....and he needs to hope that Gilbert, Gaines or Johnson dont, cause if they handle that return thingy, then Benji is outside looking in.....
And Moore, I think, is done....along with the rest(cept one or 2 for PS maybe)....
Ok....lets talk WR, because it is a bit congested at the back end and should prove to be one of the deeper competitions during TC.....
First....last year we carried only 5, so if 5 is the number, it's gonna be tight picking the last one(or 2)...and before suggesting we keep an extra, keep in mind there is much talk about keeping and extra DB and DL based upon the depth at those positions.....plus talk about keeping an extra QB(3) to protect Shaw and make sure we have the depth at back up...so if we keep 3 extra at those positions, little chance well be keeping 6 WR's......
I see 3 guys as shoo-ins to make the team.....Hawkins, Gabriel and Bowe should be the top 3...
5 Next level guys are fighting for those other 2 spots.....Benjiman, Mayle, Hartline, Moore & Pryor
Then, we have another couple presumably promising up and comers in Rodney Smith & Josh Lenz
And the looooong shots of Wynn, Jennings & Cone
So.....ten guys fighting for 2 spots(basically).....
Excellent write up Mud!
When Travis Benjamin led our WR Corps with 3 TD receptions in spot duty - Farmer & Pettine prioritized adding size to our perimeter and red zone in particular. These the ideas competing to represent the upgrade in mind:
Dwayne Bowe 6'2"
Mike Hartline 6'2"
Vince Mayle 6'3"
Rodney Smith 6'5"
T. Pryor 6'2"
Here's some encouraging facts from the guys returning to give me the feeling they'll blend well with who sticks above:
1) Benjamin and Gabriel averaged 17.4 and 17.3 yards per catch respectively.
2) Hawkins led us targets (112) and receptions (63)
If I had to guess - we'll keep 6 WRs and use one as a return specialist or as a QB for the extra point conversion thing. Here's the 6 I think we'll keep:
1) Dwayne Bowe
2) Mike Hartline
3) Andrew Hawkins
4) Taylor Gabriel
5) Vince Mayle
and now for the controversial laugh me out of the discussion keeper:
6) Travis Benjamin - Who's faster? Who caught more TD passes? Who averaged more yards per catch? How often did you see him drop the ball? He's improved a lot as a WR, which is what you want from guys you've invested time and coaching into. I think his speed is exactly what D. Bowe was missing on the other side of formation in KC last year. It's more than 2 years post op so I'm betting he regains his elite return skills.
Practice Squad - Rodney Smith
It'll be fun to watch this competition shake out with an open mind...
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
It would be great if Pryor did somehow pull a decent WR career out of a failed QB career.
Pryor is making all of the right moves, that's for sure.
Training with Randy Moss - check.
Training with Steve Smith - check.
Training with Antonio Brown - check.
Training with Mike Evans - check.
He's got them all covered. A former great #1 destined for the Hall of Fame. A current great #1 at the tail end of his career. A current great #1 just hitting his stride. A future great #1 that is just beginning his career. And a potential great #1 that smoked himself out of the league.
I am very intrigued by Pryor. His footwork is hot garbage as of right now, but three weeks ago it was molten garbage - so there's a slight improvement.
Pryor is making all of the right moves, that's for sure.
Training with Randy Moss - check.
Training with Steve Smith - check.
Training with Antonio Brown - check.
Training with Mike Evans - check.
He's got them all covered. A former great #1 destined for the Hall of Fame. A current great #1 at the tail end of his career. A current great #1 just hitting his stride. A future great #1 that is just beginning his career. And a potential great #1 that smoked himself out of the league.
I am very intrigued by Pryor. His footwork is hot garbage as of right now, but three weeks ago it was molten garbage - so there's a slight improvement.
I hear we're approaching tepid garbage.
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Ok....lets talk WR, because it is a bit congested at the back end and should prove to be one of the deeper competitions during TC.....
First....last year we carried only 5, so if 5 is the number, it's gonna be tight picking the last one(or 2)...and before suggesting we keep an extra, keep in mind there is much talk about keeping and extra DB and DL based upon the depth at those positions.....plus talk about keeping an extra QB(3) to protect Shaw and make sure we have the depth at back up...so if we keep 3 extra at those positions, little chance well be keeping 6 WR's......
I see 3 guys as shoo-ins to make the team.....Hawkins, Gabriel and Bowe should be the top 3...
5 Next level guys are fighting for those other 2 spots.....Benjiman, Mayle, Hartline, Moore & Pryor
Then, we have another couple presumably promising up and comers in Rodney Smith & Josh Lenz
And the looooong shots of Wynn, Jennings & Cone
So.....ten guys fighting for 2 spots(basically).....
Excellent write up Mud!
When Travis Benjamin led our WR Corps with 3 TD receptions in spot duty - Farmer & Pettine prioritized adding size to our perimeter and red zone in particular. These the ideas competing to represent the upgrade in mind:
Dwayne Bowe 6'2"
Mike Hartline 6'2"
Vince Mayle 6'3"
Rodney Smith 6'5"
T. Pryor 6'2"
Here's some encouraging facts from the guys returning to give me the feeling they'll blend well with who sticks above:
1) Benjamin and Gabriel averaged 17.4 and 17.3 yards per catch respectively.
2) Hawkins led us targets (112) and receptions (63)
If I had to guess - we'll keep 6 WRs and use one as a return specialist or as a QB for the extra point conversion thing. Here's the 6 I think we'll keep:
1) Dwayne Bowe
2) Mike Hartline
3) Andrew Hawkins
4) Taylor Gabriel
5) Vince Mayle
and now for the controversial laugh me out of the discussion keeper:
6) Travis Benjamin - Who's faster? Who caught more TD passes? Who averaged more yards per catch? How often did you see him drop the ball? He's improved a lot as a WR, which is what you want from guys you've invested time and coaching into. I think his speed is exactly what D. Bowe was missing on the other side of formation in KC last year. It's more than 2 years post op so I'm betting he regains his elite return skills.
Practice Squad - Rodney Smith
It'll be fun to watch this competition shake out with an open mind...
Excellent write up Mud!
When Travis Benjamin led our WR Corps with 3 TD receptions in spot duty - Farmer & Pettine prioritized adding size to our perimeter and red zone in particular. These the ideas competing to represent the upgrade in mind:
Dwayne Bowe 6'2"
Mike Hartline 6'2"
Vince Mayle 6'3"
Rodney Smith 6'5"
T. Pryor 6'2"
Here's some encouraging facts from the guys returning to give me the feeling they'll blend well with who sticks above:
1) Benjamin and Gabriel averaged 17.4 and 17.3 yards per catch respectively.
2) Hawkins led us targets (112) and receptions (63)
If I had to guess - we'll keep 6 WRs and use one as a return specialist or as a QB for the extra point conversion thing. Here's the 6 I think we'll keep:
1) Dwayne Bowe
2) Mike Hartline
3) Andrew Hawkins
4) Taylor Gabriel
5) Vince Mayle
and now for the controversial laugh me out of the discussion keeper:
6) Travis Benjamin - Who's faster? Who caught more TD passes? Who averaged more yards per catch? How often did you see him drop the ball? He's improved a lot as a WR, which is what you want from guys you've invested time and coaching into. I think his speed is exactly what D. Bowe was missing on the other side of formation in KC last year. It's more than 2 years post op so I'm betting he regains his elite return skills.
Practice Squad - Rodney Smith
It'll be fun to watch this competition shake out with an open mind...
Pryor is more like 6'4 or 6'5" not 6-2
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One thing I did not see considered to this point is that we are a running team.
Last year that meant that we featured a single-back/two-TE set with only 2 WRs on the field. I don't see that changing unless one of our FB candidates shines bringing in more 2B1TE sets... again with 2 WRs. I see our starting two being Bowe and Gabe. Everything else is situational.
As for the number of WRs making the 53-man roster... 7 seems high to me. Last year five was it, but Josh was always looming. So six this year is plausible, if the talent warrants it and the PS is not an option for a promising WR.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
One thing I did not see considered to this point is that we are a running team.
Last year that meant that we featured a single-back/two-TE set with only 2 WRs on the field. I don't see that changing unless one of our FB candidates shines bringing in more 2B1TE sets... again with 2 WRs. I see our starting two being Bowe and Gabe. Everything else is situational.
As for the number of WRs making the 53-man roster... 7 seems high to me. Last year five was it, but Josh was always looming. So six this year is plausible, if the talent warrants it and the PS is not an option for a promising WR.
One thing I did not see considered to this point is that we are a running team.
Last year that meant that we featured a single-back/two-TE set with only 2 WRs on the field. I don't see that changing unless one of our FB candidates shines bringing in more 2B1TE sets... again with 2 WRs. I see our starting two being Bowe and Gabe. Everything else is situational.
As for the number of WRs making the 53-man roster... 7 seems high to me. Last year five was it, but Josh was always looming. So six this year is plausible, if the talent warrants it and the PS is not an option for a promising WR.
Ahhh....someone else who agrees that Gabe is our #2 outside.....
7 seems high to me too.....Browns are gonna keep our best 53 and I dont think WR is where the extras will be found.....
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Here is what I see as a well written and well researched article on Hartline from last season.....and it basically concludes what I feel about him, which is that he has dependable hands...but is very limited in speed, route running, etc....and not really #2 WR material(which was evident last season when he was moved back to #3, behind Wallace & Jarvis Landry)...
Now Jarvis Landry was ranked by PFF as the 3rd best rookie WR last year.......so it's understandable that he'd move ahead of Hartline.....
Who was ranked as the 4th best?.......Gabe......
Not trying to slam Hartline...just being realistic that he's pretty average and best used as a situational player....
And trying to plug our own guy who had one of the best rookie seasons of ALL the supposedly AMAZING WR's drafted last year..
Our own Rodney Dangerfield....no respect, I tell ya....
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Excellent write up Mud!
When Travis Benjamin led our WR Corps with 3 TD receptions in spot duty - Farmer & Pettine prioritized adding size to our perimeter and red zone in particular. These the ideas competing to represent the upgrade in mind:
Dwayne Bowe 6'2"
Mike Hartline 6'2"
Vince Mayle 6'3"
Rodney Smith 6'5"
T. Pryor 6'2"
Here's some encouraging facts from the guys returning to give me the feeling they'll blend well with who sticks above:
1) Benjamin and Gabriel averaged 17.4 and 17.3 yards per catch respectively.
2) Hawkins led us targets (112) and receptions (63)
If I had to guess - we'll keep 6 WRs and use one as a return specialist or as a QB for the extra point conversion thing. Here's the 6 I think we'll keep:
1) Dwayne Bowe
2) Mike Hartline
3) Andrew Hawkins
4) Taylor Gabriel
5) Vince Mayle
and now for the controversial laugh me out of the discussion keeper:
6) Travis Benjamin - Who's faster? Who caught more TD passes? Who averaged more yards per catch? How often did you see him drop the ball? He's improved a lot as a WR, which is what you want from guys you've invested time and coaching into. I think his speed is exactly what D. Bowe was missing on the other side of formation in KC last year. It's more than 2 years post op so I'm betting he regains his elite return skills.
Practice Squad - Rodney Smith
It'll be fun to watch this competition shake out with an open mind...
Pryor is more like 6'4 or 6'5" not 6-2
Pryor is more like 6'4 or 6'5" not 6-2
Thanks Gip! Believe it or not, I had 6'4" written on my post it note for him so who knows why I typed 6'2". It'll be fun to see what happens with him. Perfect size and I think he's clock better 40 times than Gordon.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Here is what I see as a well written and well researched article on Hartline from last season.....and it basically concludes what I feel about him, which is that he has dependable hands...but is very limited in speed, route running, etc....and not really #2 WR material(which was evident last season when he was moved back to #3, behind Wallace & Jarvis Landry)...
Now Jarvis Landry was ranked by PFF as the 3rd best rookie WR last year.......so it's understandable that he'd move ahead of Hartline.....
Who was ranked as the 4th best?.......Gabe......
Not trying to slam Hartline...just being realistic that he's pretty average and best used as a situational player....
And trying to plug our own guy who had one of the best rookie seasons of ALL the supposedly AMAZING WR's drafted last year..
Our own Rodney Dangerfield....no respect, I tell ya....
Here is what I see as a well written and well researched article on Hartline from last season.....and it basically concludes what I feel about him, which is that he has dependable hands...but is very limited in speed, route running, etc....and not really #2 WR material(which was evident last season when he was moved back to #3, behind Wallace & Jarvis Landry)...
Now Jarvis Landry was ranked by PFF as the 3rd best rookie WR last year.......so it's understandable that he'd move ahead of Hartline.....
Who was ranked as the 4th best?.......Gabe......
Not trying to slam Hartline...just being realistic that he's pretty average and best used as a situational player....
And trying to plug our own guy who had one of the best rookie seasons of ALL the supposedly AMAZING WR's drafted last year..
Our own Rodney Dangerfield....no respect, I tell ya....
Well, I believe that Hartline was brought in to do just what it says he can do.....be a solid #3 possession type receiver.
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Here is what I see as a well written and well researched article on Hartline from last season.....and it basically concludes what I feel about him, which is that he has dependable hands...but is very limited in speed, route running, etc....and not really #2 WR material(which was evident last season when he was moved back to #3, behind Wallace & Jarvis Landry)...
Now Jarvis Landry was ranked by PFF as the 3rd best rookie WR last year.......so it's understandable that he'd move ahead of Hartline.....
Who was ranked as the 4th best?.......Gabe......
Not trying to slam Hartline...just being realistic that he's pretty average and best used as a situational player....
And trying to plug our own guy who had one of the best rookie seasons of ALL the supposedly AMAZING WR's drafted last year..
Our own Rodney Dangerfield....no respect, I tell ya....
Well, I believe that Hartline was brought in to do just what it says he can do.....be a solid #3 possession type receiver.
Well, I believe that Hartline was brought in to do just what it says he can do.....be a solid #3 possession type receiver.
I agree....100%
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Pryor is more like 6'4 or 6'5" not 6-2
Thanks Gip! Believe it or not, I had 6'4" written on my post it note for him so who knows why I typed 6'2". It'll be fun to see what happens with him. Perfect size and I think he's clock better 40 times than Gordon.
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One thing I did not see considered to this point is that we are a running team.
Last year that meant that we featured a single-back/two-TE set with only 2 WRs on the field. I don't see that changing unless one of our FB candidates shines bringing in more 2B1TE sets... again with 2 WRs. I see our starting two being Bowe and Gabe. Everything else is situational.
As for the number of WRs making the 53-man roster... 7 seems high to me. Last year five was it, but Josh was always looming. So six this year is plausible, if the talent warrants it and the PS is not an option for a promising WR.
One thing I did not see considered to this point is that we are a running team.
Last year that meant that we featured a single-back/two-TE set with only 2 WRs on the field. I don't see that changing unless one of our FB candidates shines bringing in more 2B1TE sets... again with 2 WRs. I see our starting two being Bowe and Gabe. Everything else is situational.
As for the number of WRs making the 53-man roster... 7 seems high to me. Last year five was it, but Josh was always looming. So six this year is plausible, if the talent warrants it and the PS is not an option for a promising WR.
Excellent point about the running team. That said, we at least want to pose a threat of being able to score via the pass in the red zone (or our strength gets easier to defend in the absence of balance). When a part timer (Benjamin) leads our WR Corps with 3 TD receptions - this had to be addressed in the off season. I thought Farmer & Pettine did a nice job of trying to improve our red zone pass offense. We'll see how it turns out; but it's easier to be confident when I've witnessed an effort.
I agree with you about 7 seeming high to keep at WR. I think we'll keep 6 (with 1 of them being able to be a return guy on STs (Benjamin) or a WildDawg type of QB for STs (Pryor).
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See a recent post of mine about where certain failed NFL QBs, like Pryor and Tebow, may now have value as 2 pt PAT specialists. While they are not good full time QBs, they may be valuable assets from 2 yards out for the running/short passing capability. Kind of a WildDawg thing...
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See a recent post of mine about where certain failed NFL QBs, like Pryor and Tebow, may now have value as 2 pt PAT specialists. While they are not good full time QBs, they may be valuable assets from 2 yards out for the running/short passing capability. Kind of a WildDawg thing...
See a recent post of mine about where certain failed NFL QBs, like Pryor and Tebow, may now have value as 2 pt PAT specialists. While they are not good full time QBs, they may be valuable assets from 2 yards out for the running/short passing capability. Kind of a WildDawg thing...
That was a good post Gip - I read it. It's also been covered a number of times on the NFL Channel. I'm sure many others have thought of this too even if they didn't post about it. Cribbs was used this way in a wild cat aside from being a part time WR and a STs stud. That was pretty much his college playbook when he played QB so he was well trained just like Tebow and Pryor are today. Getting Cribbs back in his old college comfort zone was a big reason we were able to beat Pitt in 2009.
As it pertains to making potentially the 6th WR position spot on this team this year - I see Benjamin competing with Pryor to make that spot. Whoever can do more things well prolly gets the nod. This should be fun to watch.
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Im not seeing us carry anyone "just" as a situational or st player.....too much depth and need at too many positions just to keep a guy for a coupla/few plays per game....maks me wanna start a thread on position counts, I think....
Im not seeing us carry anyone "just" as a situational or st player.....too much depth and need at too many positions just to keep a guy for a coupla/few plays per game....maks me wanna start a thread on position counts, I think....
I am pointing out that Pryor could have some value if he were used in that "situation". Perhaps more than a Tebow would....because Tebow would probably have use ONLY as that situational player. I mean, what other position can he play? Fullback? Not WR/RB/TE. But he could do that.
Then it is up to the coach to determine if he wants a player on his roster that does only that. The Browns coach....not likely. Chip Kelly? Probably.
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Im not seeing us carry anyone "just" as a situational or st player.....too much depth and need at too many positions just to keep a guy for a coupla/few plays per game....maks me wanna start a thread on position counts, I think....
I am pointing out that Pryor could have some value if he were used in that "situation". Perhaps more than a Tebow would....because Tebow would probably have use ONLY as that situational player. I mean, what other position can he play? Fullback? Not WR/RB/TE. But he could do that.
Then it is up to the coach to determine if he wants a player on his roster that does only that. The Browns coach....not likely. Chip Kelly? Probably.
I am pointing out that Pryor could have some value if he were used in that "situation". Perhaps more than a Tebow would....because Tebow would probably have use ONLY as that situational player. I mean, what other position can he play? Fullback? Not WR/RB/TE. But he could do that.
Then it is up to the coach to determine if he wants a player on his roster that does only that. The Browns coach....not likely. Chip Kelly? Probably.
Pryor has more use to use than Benjamin.
Benjamin is a very mediocre, undersized but speedy receiver who doubles as a kick returner and was useful to us in the red zone and third down situations.
Pryor is a raw, (at best) mediocre receiver who is tall, athletic and fast.
Benjamin's value is that he can return kicks plus has experience as a slot receiver.
Pryor's value is that he can (conceivably) stretch the field as well as contest jump balls, plus has experience as a (poor) NFL QB and he's familiar with Flip's system.
Unfortunately, our roster is abound with small, speedy players who can return kicks. Our roster does not currently feature anyone who is familiar with Flip's system, is a tall receiver, and can possibly be a two-point conversion/emergency QB player.
Assuming they are of equal importance/skill at WR, Pryor's value is a little more than Benji's in that Benji's non-WR duties are easily replaced while Pryor's might not be.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
a lot of ifs with pryor. don't remembering him catching any passes as a receiver in the nfl.
benji on the other hand...........
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I am pointing out that Pryor could have some value if he were used in that "situation". Perhaps more than a Tebow would....because Tebow would probably have use ONLY as that situational player. I mean, what other position can he play? Fullback? Not WR/RB/TE. But he could do that.
Then it is up to the coach to determine if he wants a player on his roster that does only that. The Browns coach....not likely. Chip Kelly? Probably.
Pryor has more use to use than Benjamin.
Benjamin is a very mediocre, undersized but speedy receiver who doubles as a kick returner and was useful to us in the red zone and third down situations.
Pryor is a raw, (at best) mediocre receiver who is tall, athletic and fast.
Benjamin's value is that he can return kicks plus has experience as a slot receiver.
Pryor's value is that he can (conceivably) stretch the field as well as contest jump balls, plus has experience as a (poor) NFL QB and he's familiar with Flip's system.
Unfortunately, our roster is abound with small, speedy players who can return kicks. Our roster does not currently feature anyone who is familiar with Flip's system, is a tall receiver, and can possibly be a two-point conversion/emergency QB player.
Assuming they are of equal importance/skill at WR, Pryor's value is a little more than Benji's in that Benji's non-WR duties are easily replaced while Pryor's might not be.
Pryor has more use to use than Benjamin.
Benjamin is a very mediocre, undersized but speedy receiver who doubles as a kick returner and was useful to us in the red zone and third down situations.
Pryor is a raw, (at best) mediocre receiver who is tall, athletic and fast.
Benjamin's value is that he can return kicks plus has experience as a slot receiver.
Pryor's value is that he can (conceivably) stretch the field as well as contest jump balls, plus has experience as a (poor) NFL QB and he's familiar with Flip's system.
Unfortunately, our roster is abound with small, speedy players who can return kicks. Our roster does not currently feature anyone who is familiar with Flip's system, is a tall receiver, and can possibly be a two-point conversion/emergency QB player.
Assuming they are of equal importance/skill at WR, Pryor's value is a little more than Benji's in that Benji's non-WR duties are easily replaced while Pryor's might not be.
If we have so many small speedy players who can return kicks....then why did we use none of them last year.
A few minor irritances from last year's team:
A. No one who could/would be put in their to return kicks worth a damn.
B. No throwing hardly to backs out of the backfield.
C. No real decent red zone pass target.
Hopefully we have these flaws corrected this year.
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