McCown Starts

hoorta

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

That's all well and good, if you're looking at things on surface level.

Take a look at what he's had to work with up front. The following are the years that he started accompanied with his respective offensive line's pass protection ranking.

2003 - ARI - Off. line rank 24th

2004 - ARI - Off. line rank 17th

2005 - ARI - Off. line rank 14th

2007 - OAK - Off. line rank 27th

2013 - CHI - Off. line rank 5th

2014 - TB - Off. line rank 29th

Is it a coincidence that McCown's best performance came when his offensive line gave him time to throw, and his worst performance came when they didn't?

McCown, excluding one year, has never had an offensive line to protect him. THAT'S why I have faith that his "other six stops" aren't reflective of what he can do.

It's no coincidence virtually any NFL quarterback can look good- if given all day to throw. Oh- and given guys like Matt Forte, Martellus Bennett, Brandon Marshall, and Alshon Jeffrey for sidekicks. Old Josh got promptly replaced when Jay Cutler got healthy too. Regarding no protection- Joe Montana looked like Joe Blow when Lawrence Taylor and his Giants pals shredded his o-line in a playoff game way back.

So let's all hope that nice 5 game stretch proves Josh is really good- just give him a repeat of those circumstances. Too bad Josh Gordon is suspended, Jordan Cameron walked, and Trent Richardson turned into a mega bust.

Does that mean I want McCown to flop, just so I can say I told you so? Nope- I'm just betting the odds of him doing something significantly better than career average are really long. He went 3-2 with the Bears- I won't be doing back flips and cartwheels if McCown leads the Browns to a 9-7 record.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@hoorta said:

It's no coincidence virtually any NFL quarterback can look good- if given all day to throw. Oh- and given guys like Matt Forte, Martellus Bennett, Brandon Marshall, and Alshon Jeffrey for sidekicks. Old Josh got promptly replaced when Jay Cutler got healthy too. Regarding no protection- Joe Montana looked like Joe Blow when Lawrence Taylor and his Giants pals shredded his o-line in a playoff game way back.

So let's all hope that nice 5 game stretch proves Josh is really good- just give him a repeat of those circumstances. Too bad Josh Gordon is suspended, Jordan Cameron walked, and Trent Richardson turned into a mega bust.

Does that mean I want McCown to flop, just so I can say I told you so? Nope- I'm just betting the odds of him doing something significantly better than career average are really long. He went 3-2 with the Bears- I won't be doing back flips and cartwheels if McCown leads the Browns to a 9-7 record.

So it's McCown's fault that he performs better when he has time to throw? That's a knock on his character?

He also had Jackson, Evans and Doug Martin in TB...so what happened there?

If McCown throws for 12 TD's and 0 INT over an5 game span, you (along with everyone else) would be shitting your pants.

Hell, everyone shit their pants over Hoyer and his performance was merely average.

It's not like he's getting the start over Aaron Rodgers.

Ibleedbrown

I like you guys and all, but this is getting a little fucked up. Why is it so hard to just kick back and see what happens Sunday?

I like pissing in my pants as much as the next guy, but lets all piss in our pants together.

cdl15

Fuuuck. I'd take a guy that was painfully average in Cleveland. When was the last time we even had an average qb? Mccown goes 9-7? I'd be building a statue for him.

hoorta

@cdl15 said:
Fuuuck. I'd take a guy that was painfully average in Cleveland. When was the last time we even had an average qb? Mccown goes 9-7? I'd be building a statue for him.

As Ghoolie would say "that's the problem". The Browns have been so horrifically bad for so long- do we really want to build statues for "Average"? I understand the young 'uns saying- hey- mediocre is an improvement. The real goal is that distant dream of not only playing in, but Winning a Super Bowl. Of the pre-merger teams, only the Browns and Lions have never been to the Promised Land- and I say - we're long overdue. Unfortunately, it looks like it's not the "Plan" to get there this year either. As the one buzzard said to the other- "patience, my ass, I'm gonna kill something." I've been patient since 1964- and I 'm old enough to remember that one.

"Why is it so hard to just kick back and see what happens Sunday?" WSS

OK Steve, we'll see what we see. I'm just funnin' with TCPO.

hoorta

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

So it's McCown's fault that he performs better when he has time to throw? That's a knock on his character?

Who said anything about character? FWIW I think McCown is an extremely high character guy. I stated a simple fact of football.

He also had Jackson, Evans and Doug Martin in TB...so what happened there?

LOL, to quote Bill Bellicheat "diminishing skills?"

If McCown throws for 12 TD's and 0 INT over an5 game span, you (along with everyone else) would be shitting your pants.

You're on- $100 bucks says he can't. And I will shit my pants should that come about. I put the odds of that happening about equal to the earth getting hit by an asteroid in the same time frame.

Hell, everyone shit their pants over Hoyer and his performance was merely average.

Toss out the Buffalo game he got hurt in- and in Hoyer's first 12 games with the Browns he was 8-4, (9-4 if you count games he started in.) that's potential playoff pace, until the wheels came off. Add in the Hometown Kid makes good factor. McCown now only has to go 9-3 to match, I daresay he'll be the toast of the town if he does so-

It's not like he's getting the start over Aaron Rodgers.

Neither would anyone else- probably not Peyton Manning, and certainly not Eli. Please- very bad analogy.

DieHardBrownsFan

@mudfly said:

THATS what I say almost everytime you post.....

Walter, you are invalid and flawed....

If we lose, you do deserve it......

Say it or type it? Like I give a fuck.

Mike H

Josh isn't so bad. He was actually under pressure a lot in Chicago too, but had good weapons and trusted them.

I expect big games from Gary Barnidge and McCown this weekend. Hawkins too. 27-24 Browns

Johnny will play eventually, but he's still only 22 and has some areas he needs to clean up. Pettine is actually making the right call by playing Josh, and I've been in support of playing Manziel from day one after he was picked.

Can be start and succeed right now? Probably to a degree. But he's making marked improvements in critical areas of the game, and his mechanics look much better other than his plant foot at times. Securing the ball in the pocket, and developing a better pocket alarm clock are two of the big things he has to work on. QBs can't sit in the pocket and pat the ball for 4 or more seconds. They have to see the field quick, check their progressions and then think about evading pressure within 3-4 seconds of snap, sometimes quicker.

He has the arm. He has the wheels. I'm confident from what I've seen he'll get the rest soon.

Westside Steve

I really like both our quarterbacks, but you can't help but worry if the right choice is winning now Vs building for the future.

(and I still honestly wonder why Mike Patton was such a prick when we drafted Johnny. I've never heard any other coach dis their first-round quarterback selection.)

WSS

Tour2ma

Pet dissed the choice???

I simply don't see that winning now and developing are mutually exclusive...

@ibleedbrown said:
I like pissing in my pants as much as the next guy, but lets all piss in our pants together.

I can't remember a post that needs context more than this one...

Mudfly

@westside-steve said:

I really like both our quarterbacks, but you can't help but worry if the right choice is winning now Vs building for the future.

@tour2ma said:

Pet dissed the choice???

I simply don't see that winning now and developing are mutually exclusive...

A lot of talk about Pettines ass being on the line.......and, I think, he was hired to coach players and try to win football games now....(not somewhere in the future)

So, if it was my job to win on sunday....and, if I didnt win, I would likely be fired.......then why would I risk not winning just to develop a player for a team I wont even be coaching......makes no sense.....(who sacrifices their job to improve a company thats just going to fire them)

Bottom line.....would you trust Johnny with your job cause he had one decent game.....???.......I wouldnt..........

Mr. Make-Believe

Would it be inaccurate to state that those who don't want to see Josh McCown (or would prefer Manziel) in this game are the same ones who were against the signing when it happened? That it actually has very little to do with a 17 play drive, a few fumbles or a win from the little guy?

I'm not to jazzed about this move either. But obviously this boils down to who gives the Browns the best chance to win the next game.

Everything else is noise.

bbedward

@mr.-make-believe said:

Would it be inaccurate to state that those who don't want to see Josh McCown (or would prefer Manziel) in this game are the same ones who were against the signing when it happened? That it actually has very little to do with a 17 play drive, a few fumbles or a win from the little guy?

I'm not to jazzed about this move either. But obviously this boils down to who gives the Browns the best chance to win the next game.

Everything else is noise.

The same people who clamored for Manziel last year and made excuses for him when he sucked (and continue to make excuses for his fumbilitis). I don't think it has to do with people against the McCown signing (Maybe they overlap).

I'd have liked to see the kid over McCown, but in all fairness Johnny made plenty of mistakes - and when the QB fumbles every time he gets hit it definitely hinders your chance to win.

Westside Steve

That's true. How many fumbles does McCown have per quarter as a starter for the Browns?

WSS

DieHardBrownsFan

Yep, McCown plays one quarter, fumbles at the goal, gets a concussion and he is our savior and way to win. Yessiree.

D Bone

@westside-steve said:

That's true. How many fumbles does McCown have per quarter as a starter for the Browns?

WSS

@diehardbrownsfan said:
Yep, McCown plays one quarter, fumbles at the goal, gets a concussion and he is our savior and way to win. Yessiree.

Retard would be proud of you both.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@diehardbrownsfan said:
Yep, McCown plays one quarter, fumbles at the goal, gets a concussion and he is our savior and way to win. Yessiree.

But the guy with 8 career turnovers throughout his 7 total games in action is CLEARLY the guy to lead us to the promised land.

How could they be so stupid?

thenew23

Right... much worse than the guy who has 79 turnovers in 70 total games...

just playing devil's advocate here...

Mr. Make-Believe

@bbedward said:

The same people who clamored for Manziel last year and made excuses for him when he sucked (and continue to make excuses for his fumbilitis). I don't think it has to do with people against the McCown signing (Maybe they overlap).

I'd have liked to see the kid over McCown, but in all fairness Johnny made plenty of mistakes - and when the QB fumbles every time he gets hit it definitely hinders your chance to win.

I was against the McCown signing, but that wasn't out of any love or excuses for Manziel. He was awful last year and he's only gone from awful to not-entirely-awful to start THIS season.

I see this from both angles. I think McCown gives us the best chance to win on Sunday. On the other hand, I'm scared of what's going to happen if we rely on him for several years while "waiting" for Manziel and not actively shopping the draft for better potential QBs. I know we've been swinging for 15 years now, but we need to get a hit sometime.

Maybe Manziel turns out to be that guy..?

WalterWhite

Josh McCown = Jake Delhome part 2 except Delhomme had modest success

Johnny Manziel = picking up momentum and the best QBR since 2007 and benched

What a fucknose of a decision