* * * Official Raiders @ Browns Game Day Thread * * *
-
Faded said:
Just be aware that when you do it's going to be a carnival freakshow of highs and lows for a while. You either go through that and accept it for a few games (or half a season), or you should have never drafted the guy.
And that would be worse than what we're seeing now??
And that would be worse than what we're seeing now??
This game was terrible.
Faded said:
Now McCown will have a chance to pad the stats a little with the Raiders nursing a 3 score lead. Pettine can come out in the PC and talk about what solid play he got from the veteran QB and how there is no need to alter the plan.
Nice garbage time stats. Underthown int. the guy isn't accurate, even with zero pressure.
I'm so glad I didn't renew my season tickets
I'm thinking the same next year. They can ride McClown to 2-14. With the running game not working- Josh is worse than worthless.
-
Faded said:
I'm only looking at the stats. Until the last INT, they were average for McCown. I don''t know that Manziel could have duplicated it on 40+ throws (though we don't really know, since they only let him throw it 15 times last week). It certainly wasn't lights out by any means, and the yds/att (~7.1) was just about the mean. It certainly wasn't a terrible performance, maybe slightly sub-par.
But, it doesn't matter. I predict Pettine will praise the veteran QB play, point out that, though it needs to improve, they are on the right track, and McCown will be under center on the first play next week. The idea of Manziel scampering around chucking unscripted bombs scares him worse than it does the opposing DCs...
The problem is Johnny hasn't proven much better. He has completed two bombs to Travis Benjamin but other than that he has been a fumbling, incompletion, interception losing machine.
-
If we're gonna lose anyway, at least make it exciting to watch. Manziel would do that. Keep playing McCown, and I predict a lot of empty seats.
-
If we're gonna lose anyway, at least make it exciting to watch. Manziel would do that. Keep playing McCown, and I predict a lot of empty seats.
If we're gonna lose anyway, at least make it exciting to watch. Manziel would do that. Keep playing McCown, and I predict a lot of empty seats.
Empty seats won't happen in our lifetime, supporting a loser is a badge of honor in Cleveland unfortunately
-
Faded said:
Yeah, if you discount the spectacular TD bombs, it definitely takes some of the luster off.
...
...
Now, remind me again, why am I supposed to discount the TD bombs?....
Because you can't sustain that. In today's NFL you either sling it all around and complete 65% of your passes or you have balance. TD bombs are like kick returns for TDs, awesome when they happen but can't count on them.
-
Alrighty I guess mine wasn't satisfactory.
Could have been.... had you gotten the title right...
-
Faded said:
I haven't looked up the exact stats, but the frequency of 40+ yard touchdown plays is a lot higher than kick returns for TDs, so, while i get the analogy, it's not a very good one.
I'm not saying success on the deep balls is everything, but, yeah, it's a big deal. Also, the threat can be parlayed into other advantages for the offense, as the defense has to respect the long ball. Manziel has thrown 3 (not 2) in 7 quarters this year. It would be crazy to not include them in the overall assessment of his performance. (I have to point out that electrifying wins are nice, too.)
He's complete 54% of his passes and fumbled 4 times in 7 quarters
-
This isn't an overreaction IMO: I see why Josh deserved a chance to start today, I get it. But it's obvious this whole team plays down when he's under center. The team plays a lot different when Manziel is in there. Correct your mistake and put Manziel in.
This isn't an overreaction IMO: I see why Josh deserved a chance to start today, I get it. But it's obvious this whole team plays down when he's under center. The team plays a lot different when Manziel is in there. Correct your mistake and put Manziel in.
I got there a little later than you. To start the 2nd half's 2nd Series, I would have made the change. Just to see if JM could provide a sorely needed spark.
Faded said:
Maybe McCown is going to make us eat our words....
Nah... just a snack...
Faded said:
The real beauty of it is that McCown played well enough so that there is no way you can make the switch now, but the Browns lost anyway. Meanwhile, the guy you spent a first round pick on watches and will watch again next week. That's the risk.
If McCown uses this to springboard to a good season, everything is great. If not, everybody can kind of scratch their heads at draft time next year and wonder what to do.
Outcomes are not that binary... plenty of room in between.
-
Faded said:
Yeah, I get that. I'm just noting that that is by no means the whole story. The fumbles are a problem. The completion percentage is low (though the fetal-position offensive play calling with the lead in the Titans game didn't do anything to help it). I'm just pointing out that homeruns and walk-off homeruns are generally viewed as important and positive things. It's actually not that controversial...
Guess what. When (not if) Pettine goes to Manziel, there will probably be more of each. Take your lumps now and find out what you have. Or, ride the 36 year old journeyman to...... something.
I would have started Manziel today, not because I think he's the savior just want to move on sooner rather than later.
-
Faded said:
Actually, that's mostly what I'm saying. Manziel is an intriguing talent with serious flaws. Troy Aikman had 9 TDs and 18 INTs his rookie season, but he gained the experience that made him successful later under more favorable circumstances. I think Manziel has shown just enough (he didn't look too bad in the preseason, either), to let him run with it for a few games. Pettine probably doesn't think he has that luxury, but I don't think 7-9 with McCown will help his job security much either.
Troy Aikman was the prototypical NFL QB Manziel is a short guy, with an ok arm and no real pocket presence. Say what you want about Mccown, he stood in the pocket, made the throw and took the hit like an NFL QB. None of the "tuck and runs" Vick, RG III, Kaepenick, etc have proved that style is sustainable. Vick had flashes of greatness but his arm and speed were much better than Manziel
-
If we're gonna lose anyway, at least make it exciting to watch. Manziel would do that. Keep playing McCown, and I predict a lot of empty seats.
If we're gonna lose anyway, at least make it exciting to watch. Manziel would do that. Keep playing McCown, and I predict a lot of empty seats.
^+1
He's completed 54% of his passes and fumbled 4 times in 7 quarters
And McClown has completed 56% of his passes, and fumbled twice in 5 quarters.
Faded said:
Yeah, I get that. I'm just noting that that is by no means the whole story. The fumbles are a problem. The completion percentage is low (though the fetal-position offensive play calling with the lead in the Titans game didn't do anything to help it). I'm just pointing out that homeruns and walk-off homeruns are generally viewed as important and positive things. It's actually not that controversial...
Guess what. When (not if) Pettine goes to Manziel, there will probably be more of each. Take your lumps now and find out what you have. Or, ride the 36 year old journeyman to...... something.
correction- ride Josh to nothing.
Troy Aikman was the prototypical NFL QB Manziel is a short guy, with an ok arm and no real pocket presence. Say what you want about Mccown, he stood in the pocket, made the throw and took the hit like an NFL QB. None of the "tuck and runs" Vick, RG III, Kaepenick, etc have proved that style is sustainable. Vick had flashes of greatness but his arm and speed were much better than Manziel
He missed more throws than he made.
-
Faded said:
Actually, that's mostly what I'm saying. Manziel is an intriguing talent with serious flaws. Troy Aikman had 9 TDs and 18 INTs his rookie season, but he gained the experience that made him successful later under more favorable circumstances. I think Manziel has shown just enough (he didn't look too bad in the preseason, either), to let him run with it for a few games. Pettine probably doesn't think he has that luxury, but I don't think 7-9 with McCown will help his job security much either.
Troy Aikman was the prototypical NFL QB Manziel is a short guy, with an ok arm and no real pocket presence. Say what you want about Mccown, he stood in the pocket, made the throw and took the hit like an NFL QB. None of the "tuck and runs" Vick, RG III, Kaepenick, etc have proved that style is sustainable. Vick had flashes of greatness but his arm and speed were much better than Manziel
Troy Aikman was the prototypical NFL QB Manziel is a short guy, with an ok arm and no real pocket presence. Say what you want about Mccown, he stood in the pocket, made the throw and took the hit like an NFL QB. None of the "tuck and runs" Vick, RG III, Kaepenick, etc have proved that style is sustainable. Vick had flashes of greatness but his arm and speed were much better than Manziel
I'm sorry I must have missed the first game on the season freaking moron
-
If we're gonna lose anyway, at least make it exciting to watch. Manziel would do that. Keep playing McCown, and I predict a lot of empty seats.
^+1
He's completed 54% of his passes and fumbled 4 times in 7 quarters
And McClown has completed 56% of his passes, and fumbled twice in 5 quarters.
Faded said:
Yeah, I get that. I'm just noting that that is by no means the whole story. The fumbles are a problem. The completion percentage is low (though the fetal-position offensive play calling with the lead in the Titans game didn't do anything to help it). I'm just pointing out that homeruns and walk-off homeruns are generally viewed as important and positive things. It's actually not that controversial...
Guess what. When (not if) Pettine goes to Manziel, there will probably be more of each. Take your lumps now and find out what you have. Or, ride the 36 year old journeyman to...... something.
correction- ride Josh to nothing.
Troy Aikman was the prototypical NFL QB Manziel is a short guy, with an ok arm and no real pocket presence. Say what you want about Mccown, he stood in the pocket, made the throw and took the hit like an NFL QB. None of the "tuck and runs" Vick, RG III, Kaepenick, etc have proved that style is sustainable. Vick had flashes of greatness but his arm and speed were much better than Manziel
He missed more throws than he made.
^+1
And McClown has completed 56% of his passes, and fumbled twice in 5 quarters.
correction- ride Josh to nothing.
He missed more throws than he made.
Johnny Manziel has stunk as an NFL QB to this point. We can rationalize his poor play and say, "don't look at 2014" or "the first game is on the offensive line" but the truth is he has not been good. Maybe he turns it around and becomes Doug Flutie, I don't know. Today's loss was a team effort and every facet needs to get better.
-
Troy Aikman was the prototypical NFL QB Manziel is a short guy, with an ok arm and no real pocket presence. Say what you want about Mccown, he stood in the pocket, made the throw and took the hit like an NFL QB. None of the "tuck and runs" Vick, RG III, Kaepenick, etc have proved that style is sustainable. Vick had flashes of greatness but his arm and speed were much better than Manziel
I'm sorry I must have missed the first game on the season freaking moron
I'm sorry I must have missed the first game on the season freaking moron
I guess if I understood your point it may be easier to respond. Against the Jets week one Manziel fumbled four times.
-
quarterback isn't the worst problem at this point.
To date, we have the WORST rush defense in the league. Until that's top10, nothing else matters.
If they do like the Jets and draft nothing but DL in the first for the next 3 years, I'll be happy.
-
Faded said:
Basically, you think they never should have drafted Manziel.
If he plays like a rookie it proves your point. If he plays well, it also proves your point, because he didn't do it as a 6'3" 220 lb, prototypical NFL QB, and whatever he did is not sound or sustainable, pretty much by definition. The negatives are negative, and the positives are kind of negative, too.
I think Manziel was a stretch at 22. Don't really care how he does it if he's successful. If he goes on to have a hall of fame career I'll put some bbq sauce on the crow I'm eating. I've watched him play in 7 NFL games and based on that sample I don't think he plays like a NFL starter. Now I'm not the only one. I'd wager there isn't a GM in the league with the exception of Jacksonville that would trade their starter for him.
-
I'm going to have to rewind through this game during the course of the week, however im beginning to have questions about how we utilize our personnel on defense. I.e the philosophy Pettine and co. Subscribe to.
-
Faded said:
Basically, you think they never should have drafted Manziel.
If he plays like a rookie it proves your point. If he plays well, it also proves your point, because he didn't do it as a 6'3" 220 lb, prototypical NFL QB, and whatever he did is not sound or sustainable, pretty much by definition. The negatives are negative, and the positives are kind of negative, too.
I think Manziel was a stretch at 22. Don't really care how he does it if he's successful. If he goes on to have a hall of fame career I'll put some bbq sauce on the crow I'm eating. I've watched him play in 7 NFL games and based on that sample I don't think he plays like a NFL starter. Now I'm not the only one. I'd wager there isn't a GM in the league with the exception of Jacksonville that would trade their starter for him.
I think Manziel was a stretch at 22. Don't really care how he does it if he's successful. If he goes on to have a hall of fame career I'll put some bbq sauce on the crow I'm eating. I've watched him play in 7 NFL games and based on that sample I don't think he plays like a NFL starter. Now I'm not the only one. I'd wager there isn't a GM in the league with the exception of Jacksonville that would trade their starter for him.
There's not a GM in the league who would trade their proven starter for a relative unknown?
Surely you jest.
-
Faded said:
Basically, you think they never should have drafted Manziel.
If he plays like a rookie it proves your point. If he plays well, it also proves your point, because he didn't do it as a 6'3" 220 lb, prototypical NFL QB, and whatever he did is not sound or sustainable, pretty much by definition. The negatives are negative, and the positives are kind of negative, too.
I think Manziel was a stretch at 22. Don't really care how he does it if he's successful. If he goes on to have a hall of fame career I'll put some bbq sauce on the crow I'm eating. I've watched him play in 7 NFL games and based on that sample I don't think he plays like a NFL starter. Now I'm not the only one. I'd wager there isn't a GM in the league with the exception of Jacksonville that would trade their starter for him.
I think Manziel was a stretch at 22. Don't really care how he does it if he's successful. If he goes on to have a hall of fame career I'll put some bbq sauce on the crow I'm eating. I've watched him play in 7 NFL games and based on that sample I don't think he plays like a NFL starter. Now I'm not the only one. I'd wager there isn't a GM in the league with the exception of Jacksonville that would trade their starter for him.
6 different teams decided they could do better than McCown- it's going to be 7 before long.
-
There's not a GM in the league that would trade their starter for McCown either. So why not play the guy you drafted the first round and see what he can develop into? Surely you don't think McCown is gonna take us anywhere? Meanwhile Manziel is sitting on the sidelines with everyone wondering what he can do, while a 36 year old "never was", who will probably be out of the NFL next year, is starting for our team ............................yea! That makes sense!
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login