Here's what I'm thinkin about what's messin up the Browns
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It is NOT the HC, etc etc ,NOT the owner, NOT the gm(s)...
as much....as it is the complexity of the offense and defense.
I see mistakes where there didn't use to be mistakes, all over the place,
and I think.. "eh...they didn't have it all implemented last year, so now they do,
maybe?"
Mebbe... the schemes are so "sophisticated" and complex, that it's rough getting
everybody on track on every play at the same time. That last TD vs the Chargers...
"really?"
They are all in to stuff the run, and the Chargers knew that, so they slipped the TE
past em wide open?
Where's the lb/safety to be, to watch for tricks/variations/contingent situations?
Now, is that the DC telling them to ignore any possible pass to the TE? Or,
did a lb miss an assignment, because he thought the flip side lb was the guy
to hold back and watch ....
I don't know. But vs the Raiders, at least twice, the slot receiver.... no, the TE, probably,
slips across the back of the defensive line, from the right side...and runs parallel to the los
to the left...and the lb's are playing the slant to the right.
Now, what the hell happens, that nobody picks up said TE running to the left? Missed
assignment, or bad, bad guess by the DC? I don't know. But they did it at least twice and
it was wide open. Like one palm tree in the middle of a desert.
But, something is wrong and it needs to be fixed.
Now, I give credit to Canton Mike - he has another idea - that the complexity of the schemes,
with different personnel packages out the wazoo... are actually signaling to the other team
what the Browns are going to be doing. And that the other team is setting the Browns up
to fail - things are so specific - that the opponent watches the film, and sees the specifics,
and simply sets the Browns up with a trick set, gets that defense, knows what that defensive
set and personnel will be doing, and does something completely different and the Browns
look like they didn't think the offense would ever do what they didn't plan on them doing.
Something like that.
The Browns coaches need to sit down, watch what's going wrong, take a step back,
and fix it fast. The offensive line is having a bit of trouble, once in a while - it's their
All-pro's that are affected...
and, btw, I do NOT think it's the entire defense. Enough already with the screaming for
the entire offense and defense to be killed and replaced, owner/gm/coaches fired,
blah, blah, annoying blah.
Losing is annoying enough without all that crap. However, some aspects of what the
Browns have been implementing needs to be rethought. More and more, the offense is
working, but having problems. More and more, the defense is starting to not work.
Something is confusing the defense. It isn't the defensive line. But, lb and secondary coordination
seems to occasionally, as in ALL TOO FREAKIN OFTEN IN GAMES...be a clusterfook.
I believe these coaches will see what needs to be fixed, and fix it.
And, I'm only posting this, because I haven't had a chance to ask Mr. Flugels about it -
he knows all this stuff - the "x's" and "o's", etc etc etc.
And, maybe it's just my imagination, but all the farm work I'm doin is a hell of a lot
less fun, when the Browns lose. Dammit.
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Good post Cal. I believe we have the talent on this team to win and good coaches who will get these problems diagnosed and fixed. They need to be quick about it though because at 1-3 the season is slipping away. We should be 3-1 right now and missed out on opportunities. Putting a good game together on offense and defense and coming away with a win in Baltimore will do a lot to get us moving forward.
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It's obvious on the defensive side of the ball everything they are doing is scripted or known. You can dance across the line all you want, not put your hand down and back away but Rivers knew EXACTLY what was going on the vast majority of the time. I noted in another thread there were at least 2 times the defense sent 7 and Rivers had 3+ seconds to throw. That should never happens but has for weeks in this scheme. The whole thing is severely mangled and broken to a point where I'm not sure it can turn around this season.
The defense might be overrated, but I don't think the players we have are as bad as they look out there. People just constantly seem to be in the wrong place, too deep in coverage etc. That all points to O'Neil who just doesn't create good defensive play calls.
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And, although I love to antagonize and argue with Canton Mike...
he did have an excellent idea - that Pettine should have Bill Parcells over,
and sit down with the DC, and discuss changes/tweaks to
defensive calls and fixing the thing.
I do love the offense, wish for a bluechippie wr added to the mix (dammit bowe)...
Pettine has consulted with Parcells before. Hey, maybe he was in to chat with them about the defense this week !
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no they're as bad as they look. Watch for their individual technique, that is separate from scheme. I agree this scheme may be too complex, but it also asks for a certain level of talent and athleticism we just don't have. You have to get to the QB in Pets scheme, he cannot have 4-5 secs to throw the ball or it mangles the pass coverage.
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8 out of 9 LB's are averaging 2 tackles or less per game.....meaning 8 out 9 LB's have single digit tackles 4 games in!!!
Outrageous stat right there...
Kruger is averaging 1 tackle for every 50 snaps he plays(an $8 mil linebacker).....Orchard has 1 tackle in 60 plays(invisible).....
These are the guys who are supposed to be making MOST of the stops....Danny Shelton has more tackles than almost all of them, yet is supposed to be the guy holding up the line so the LB's can tackle......terrible terrible terrible....
Dansby has 25ish tackles and the other 8 LBs have 7 or less.......smh....
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and Dansby's tackles are garbage after the fact cause he's nowhere to be found at the LOS. I've mentioned this before and i'd like to know what some of you think...if you watch the Buffalo D, they ask a lot more of their front 4 in terms of run stopping. Hughes and Super Mario (god he's a freak) seem to actively get loose from their blocks more. Like they're being asked to do more than just set the edge and let the LB'ers clean up. That's just my peripheral observation. If you put that front seven with our secondary, it might compete for best defense of all time.
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8 out of 9 LB's are averaging 2 tackles or less per game.....meaning 8 out 9 LB's have single digit tackles 4 games in!!!
Outrageous stat right there...
Kruger is averaging 1 tackle for every 50 snaps he plays(an $8 mil linebacker).....Orchard has 1 tackle in 60 plays(invisible).....
These are the guys who are supposed to be making MOST of the stops....Danny Shelton has more tackles than almost all of them, yet is supposed to be the guy holding up the line so the LB's can tackle......terrible terrible terrible....
Dansby has 25ish tackles and the other 8 LBs have 7 or less.......smh....
8 out of 9 LB's are averaging 2 tackles or less per game.....meaning 8 out 9 LB's have single digit tackles 4 games in!!!
Outrageous stat right there...
Kruger is averaging 1 tackle for every 50 snaps he plays(an $8 mil linebacker).....Orchard has 1 tackle in 60 plays(invisible).....
These are the guys who are supposed to be making MOST of the stops....Danny Shelton has more tackles than almost all of them, yet is supposed to be the guy holding up the line so the LB's can tackle......terrible terrible terrible....
Dansby has 25ish tackles and the other 8 LBs have 7 or less.......smh....
Could someone email this to Jim O'Neil?
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what can they do? we're stuck with the players we got. With Robertson down I would have thought we'd seen Tank by now get some more reps at ILB'er. But I mean he's a lifetime special teamer so I'm not pinning my hopes that we've had the next Ray Lewis on our squad this whole time. We need to find the D to the O to the double G this offseason at ILB'er. We need to find either a replacement for Dansby or his eventual replacement in the draft, as captain of the team. We don't have that guy on the roster.
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what can they do? we're stuck with the players we got. With Robertson down I would have thought we'd seen Tank by now get some more reps at ILB'er. But I mean he's a lifetime special teamer so I'm not pinning my hopes that we've had the next Ray Lewis on our squad this whole time. We need to find the D to the O to the double G this offseason at ILB'er. We need to find either a replacement for Dansby or his eventual replacement in the draft, as captain of the team. We don't have that guy on the roster.
what can they do? we're stuck with the players we got. With Robertson down I would have thought we'd seen Tank by now get some more reps at ILB'er. But I mean he's a lifetime special teamer so I'm not pinning my hopes that we've had the next Ray Lewis on our squad this whole time. We need to find the D to the O to the double G this offseason at ILB'er. We need to find either a replacement for Dansby or his eventual replacement in the draft, as captain of the team. We don't have that guy on the roster.
I'm not saying you are wrong Cleve about the lack of talent but I'm still not convinced. I would like to see Pettine get involved more with the defense. We have invested too much in this defense to see them not performing. If we are lacking talent on defense it certainly is not because we are holding back on salaries as our defense leads the league in that respect.
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what can they do? we're stuck with the players we got. With Robertson down I would have thought we'd seen Tank by now get some more reps at ILB'er. But I mean he's a lifetime special teamer so I'm not pinning my hopes that we've had the next Ray Lewis on our squad this whole time. We need to find the D to the O to the double G this offseason at ILB'er. We need to find either a replacement for Dansby or his eventual replacement in the draft, as captain of the team. We don't have that guy on the roster.
I'm not saying you are wrong Cleve about the lack of talent but I'm still not convinced. I would like to see Pettine get involved more with the defense. We have invested too much in this defense to see them not performing. If we are lacking talent on defense it certainly is not because we are holding back on salaries as our defense leads the league in that respect.
If we are lacking talent on defense it certainly is not because we are holding back on salaries as our defense leads the league in that respect.
yeah no shit. I just see this as massive FO failure. That and bringing in a guy to coach a lot of players that were brought in for a different system. I want to see Pettine here for "YEARS" and draft/sign accordingly. We went out and got bunch of old players and gve em a lot of money near the end of their careers. Kruger was still sort of in his prime but h'es 29 now and i'm afraid he's not getting any better either. We just screwed up our personnel.
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The OL, as expected, is our strength - PFF just today rated it 3rd in the league, Tour's threads always show a positive analysis. Many things may very well be wrong, but 2 different analytical methods show that our OL isn't a part of it.
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If we are lacking talent on defense it certainly is not because we are holding back on salaries as our defense leads the league in that respect.
yeah no shit. I just see this as massive FO failure. That and bringing in a guy to coach a lot of players that were brought in for a different system. I want to see Pettine here for "YEARS" and draft/sign accordingly. We went out and got bunch of old players and gve em a lot of money near the end of their careers. Kruger was still sort of in his prime but h'es 29 now and i'm afraid he's not getting any better either. We just screwed up our personnel.
yeah no shit. I just see this as massive FO failure. That and bringing in a guy to coach a lot of players that were brought in for a different system. I want to see Pettine here for "YEARS" and draft/sign accordingly. We went out and got bunch of old players and gve em a lot of money near the end of their careers. Kruger was still sort of in his prime but h'es 29 now and i'm afraid he's not getting any better either. We just screwed up our personnel.
This is one BIG problem.
The other BIG problem is the drafting. We had 8 1st round picks over the past 5 years. And only 1 of them is starting for us right now, and he's only been here for 4 games (Shelton)
3 are not here and one of those isn't even in the league anymore
Just imagine if those 8 guys were good enough to be starting here.
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
8 out of 9 LB's are averaging 2 tackles or less per game.....meaning 8 out 9 LB's have single digit tackles 4 games in!!!
Outrageous stat right there...
Kruger is averaging 1 tackle for every 50 snaps he plays(an $8 mil linebacker).....Orchard has 1 tackle in 60 plays(invisible).....
These are the guys who are supposed to be making MOST of the stops....Danny Shelton has more tackles than almost all of them, yet is supposed to be the guy holding up the line so the LB's can tackle......terrible terrible terrible....
Dansby has 25ish tackles and the other 8 LBs have 7 or less.......smh....
8 out of 9 LB's are averaging 2 tackles or less per game.....meaning 8 out 9 LB's have single digit tackles 4 games in!!!
Outrageous stat right there...
Kruger is averaging 1 tackle for every 50 snaps he plays(an $8 mil linebacker).....Orchard has 1 tackle in 60 plays(invisible).....
These are the guys who are supposed to be making MOST of the stops....Danny Shelton has more tackles than almost all of them, yet is supposed to be the guy holding up the line so the LB's can tackle......terrible terrible terrible....
Dansby has 25ish tackles and the other 8 LBs have 7 or less.......smh....
Wow that is a serious indictment.
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where the fck is Pokey?
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yeah no shit. I just see this as massive FO failure. That and bringing in a guy to coach a lot of players that were brought in for a different system. I want to see Pettine here for "YEARS" and draft/sign accordingly. We went out and got bunch of old players and gve em a lot of money near the end of their careers. Kruger was still sort of in his prime but h'es 29 now and i'm afraid he's not getting any better either. We just screwed up our personnel.
This is one BIG problem.
The other BIG problem is the drafting. We had 8 1st round picks over the past 5 years. And only 1 of them is starting for us right now, and he's only been here for 4 games (Shelton)
3 are not here and one of those isn't even in the league anymore
Just imagine if those 8 guys were good enough to be starting here.
This is one BIG problem.
The other BIG problem is the drafting. We had 8 1st round picks over the past 5 years. And only 1 of them is starting for us right now, and he's only been here for 4 games (Shelton)
3 are not here and one of those isn't even in the league anymore
Just imagine if those 8 guys were good enough to be starting here.
4 of those 8 were drafted by this regime. Of those 4, only Gilbert seems to be an absolute bust.
Jury is out on Manziel, and Erving will be just fine.
Indict past regimes on their drafting, but this regime is only in their second year.
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and Dansby's tackles are garbage after the fact cause he's nowhere to be found at the LOS. I've mentioned this before and i'd like to know what some of you think...if you watch the Buffalo D, they ask a lot more of their front 4 in terms of run stopping. Hughes and Super Mario (god he's a freak) seem to actively get loose from their blocks more. Like they're being asked to do more than just set the edge and let the LB'ers clean up. That's just my peripheral observation. If you put that front seven with our secondary, it might compete for best defense of all time.
and Dansby's tackles are garbage after the fact cause he's nowhere to be found at the LOS. I've mentioned this before and i'd like to know what some of you think...if you watch the Buffalo D, they ask a lot more of their front 4 in terms of run stopping. Hughes and Super Mario (god he's a freak) seem to actively get loose from their blocks more. Like they're being asked to do more than just set the edge and let the LB'ers clean up. That's just my peripheral observation. If you put that front seven with our secondary, it might compete for best defense of all time.
It's he fundamental difference between a 4-3 and a 3-4.
We're asking our front men to play 2-gap more often, while Buffalo's guys are asked to play more 1-gap.
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I think 2/3 of our starting DL being rookies has hurt us the last couple weeks, I hope Dez is back this week.
And Haden and Kwil were out and then Desir went down ... Johnson Bademosi was effectively the replacement for Haden, and I don't care what you think of Haden, that's a big dropoff.
I hope these injured fuckers can play against Flacco or he is going to slice and dice.
Z
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