18-38.......
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TCPO- what was josh's third down conversion rate in the rams game? I watched the game(starting to wonder if you watched the game) and I saw a lot of throws short of the sticks. qbr(again its 2015, not 1989....what are we going to talk about rbis next?) doesn't take a lot of the things mccown sucked at in the rams game into account. I also wasnt referencing his third down on the whole season, but in the rams game. So not sure what your point was there. I didnt see plays being made on third down sunday that were meaningful.
As for mccown being left on third down and long a lot....yeah, and some of that is ON HIM. His pocket presence/awareness in the rams game was ATROCIOUS. Some of the worst I've ever seen. It's not like people are just blindsiding him right after his foot hits to plant....he's dropping back and can't move in the pocket worth a crap. He can't even guess where the pressure is going to shift. His instincts in the pocket are some of the worst I've ever seen. And it's killing us....it killed us in the denver game when he took that horrific sack when we had an > 80% chance to win(live line was browns -480 at that point) and it killed us throughout the rams game. That sack in the denver game still gets to me because the defense WON THAT GAME FOR US....they handed mccown and the offense the game on a damn platter, and then mccown goes out there when we are -400 or more to win both times and just pisses it away. Once was bad enough, but twice?!?!
Thats another thing that qbr doesnt take into account. But what does take it into account? the scoreboard.....and that glaring 6 up there on the scoreboard is proof of how piss poor josh's pocket presence was on sunday.
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TCPO- what was josh's third down conversion rate in the rams game? I watched the game(starting to wonder if you watched the game) and I saw a lot of throws short of the sticks. qbr(again its 2015, not 1989....what are we going to talk about rbis next?) doesn't take a lot of the things mccown sucked at in the rams game into account. I also wasnt referencing his third down on the whole season, but in the rams game. So not sure what your point was there. I didnt see plays being made on third down sunday that were meaningful.
As for mccown being left on third down and long a lot....yeah, and some of that is ON HIM. His pocket presence/awareness in the rams game was ATROCIOUS. Some of the worst I've ever seen. It's not like people are just blindsiding him right after his foot hits to plant....he's dropping back and can't move in the pocket worth a crap. He can't even guess where the pressure is going to shift. His instincts in the pocket are some of the worst I've ever seen. And it's killing us....it killed us in the denver game when he took that horrific sack when we had an > 80% chance to win(live line was browns -480 at that point) and it killed us throughout the rams game. That sack in the denver game still gets to me because the defense WON THAT GAME FOR US....they handed mccown and the offense the game on a damn platter, and then mccown goes out there when we are -400 or more to win both times and just pisses it away. Once was bad enough, but twice?!?!
Thats another thing that qbr doesnt take into account. But what does take it into account? the scoreboard.....and that glaring 6 up there on the scoreboard is proof of how piss poor josh's pocket presence was on sunday.
TCPO- what was josh's third down conversion rate in the rams game? I watched the game(starting to wonder if you watched the game) and I saw a lot of throws short of the sticks. qbr(again its 2015, not 1989....what are we going to talk about rbis next?) doesn't take a lot of the things mccown sucked at in the rams game into account. I also wasnt referencing his third down on the whole season, but in the rams game. So not sure what your point was there. I didnt see plays being made on third down sunday that were meaningful.
As for mccown being left on third down and long a lot....yeah, and some of that is ON HIM. His pocket presence/awareness in the rams game was ATROCIOUS. Some of the worst I've ever seen. It's not like people are just blindsiding him right after his foot hits to plant....he's dropping back and can't move in the pocket worth a crap. He can't even guess where the pressure is going to shift. His instincts in the pocket are some of the worst I've ever seen. And it's killing us....it killed us in the denver game when he took that horrific sack when we had an > 80% chance to win(live line was browns -480 at that point) and it killed us throughout the rams game. That sack in the denver game still gets to me because the defense WON THAT GAME FOR US....they handed mccown and the offense the game on a damn platter, and then mccown goes out there when we are -400 or more to win both times and just pisses it away. Once was bad enough, but twice?!?!
Thats another thing that qbr doesnt take into account. But what does take it into account? the scoreboard.....and that glaring 6 up there on the scoreboard is proof of how piss poor josh's pocket presence was on sunday.
Until you can come up with a better metric for measuring the effectiveness of a QB, I'll continue to use passer rating - just like the NFL does. Just because it doesn't suit your argument doesn't mean it's not an effective enough way to measure performance set against the average.
I counted twelve different 3rd down opportunities that McCown had. He converted four of them. However, of those remaining eight, three were third and long situations that we were put in due to offensive penalties or poor running from the RB's. On those plays, McCown still completed passes or scrambled for 9 yards or more and the player went down only a yard or so before the marker. Hardly McCown's fault for not converting, when he or his receiver gets a 13 yard pickup on 3rd and 14.
So, if you were to list them.
- 3rd and 8 - Sack Fumble
- 3rd and 1 - 21 yard pass
- 3rd and 7 - Drew defense offside (no play)
- 3rd and 2- Drew defense offside (no play)
- 3rd and 1 - 1 yard McCown run
- 3rd and 2 - Sack
- 3rd and 5 - 2 yard pass
- 3rd and 7 - False Start
- 3rd and 12 - False Start
- 3rd and 16 - 9 yard McCown run
- 3rd and 8 - 21 yard pass
- 3rd and 13 - False Start
- 3rd and 18 - 10 yard run
- 3rd and 8 - 3 yard pass
- 3rd and 9 - 36 yard pass (wiped out/ Offensive holding)
- 3rd and 19 - 14 yard pass
- 3rd and 13 - 11 yard pass
After all of that, McCown was 6 for 6 for 72 yards on 3rd down against the Rams. There were only two third down scenarios where McCown dinked and dunked - on 3rd and 5 he threw a two-yard pass to Hawk and on 3rd and 8 he threw a three-yard pass to Benjamin. There was one time where he converted a 3rd and mid with a long pass, which was summarily called back due to holding.
As for how they got into these third and longs:
- There was a 3rd and 7 that turned into a 3rd and 16 because of two offensive penalties, neither of which were on McCown. On 3rd and 16, McCown picked up 9, which would have converted had our OL not jumped twice.
- There was a 3rd and 12 that turned into a 3rd and 18 because of a Bitonio jump. We ended up running a draw to Duke for 10 yards, rather than go for it.
- There was a 36-yard pass to Benjamin on 3rd and 9 that was wiped out because of a Joe Thomas hold. Then, on 3rd and 19, McCown was able to find Duke for 14 yards.
How were any of those aforementioned third and longs on McCown?
You are literally so wrong about everything you say that it's borderline sad.
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tcpo- lmao at all the rationalizing and excuse making you did above....failing to convert is failing to convert. period. 6 points is six points. period.
And yes, there are FAR BETTER metrics for measuring qb than qbr. This isn't 1989 dude. Try reading some people who know what they are talking about with respect to efficiency ratings. Guys like Bill Barnwell and some of the other analysts at grantland. They sure as hell havent depending on qbr in ages. It's embarrassing that anyone would actually cite qbr in 2015 and you would be wise to avoid that in the future.
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@douche-nozzle said:
I get that but that is as good as saying "we give up, throw the little goofball in there....what the hell" And I think Pettine & Company are more interested in earning the respect of other coaches and players more so than earning the respect of Browns fans who just want to try something different.
lmao....if that's what he is interested in, it's probably time to try a different approach than whatever this clown has been doing for the last 16 games or so. Because the only people/coaches inside the game who don't think Pettine is a giant tool only feel that way because they don't know who the hell mike pettine even is.
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@douche-nozzle said:
I get that but that is as good as saying "we give up, throw the little goofball in there....what the hell" And I think Pettine & Company are more interested in earning the respect of other coaches and players more so than earning the respect of Browns fans who just want to try something different.
lmao....if that's what he is interested in, it's probably time to try a different approach than whatever this clown has been doing for the last 16 games or so. Because the only people/coaches inside the game who don't think Pettine is a giant tool only feel that way because they don't know who the hell mike pettine even is.
Because the only people/coaches inside the game who don't think Pettine is a giant tool only feel that way because they don't know who the hell mike pettine even is.
If it wasn't clear before....its completely clear now....you are talking completely out of your ass.
You have not one fucking clue what the rest of "people/coaches inside the game" think of him.
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tcpo- lmao at all the rationalizing and excuse making you did above....failing to convert is failing to convert. period. 6 points is six points. period.
And yes, there are FAR BETTER metrics for measuring qb than qbr. This isn't 1989 dude. Try reading some people who know what they are talking about with respect to efficiency ratings. Guys like Bill Barnwell and some of the other analysts at grantland. They sure as hell havent depending on qbr in ages. It's embarrassing that anyone would actually cite qbr in 2015 and you would be wise to avoid that in the future.
tcpo- lmao at all the rationalizing and excuse making you did above....failing to convert is failing to convert. period. 6 points is six points. period.
And yes, there are FAR BETTER metrics for measuring qb than qbr. This isn't 1989 dude. Try reading some people who know what they are talking about with respect to efficiency ratings. Guys like Bill Barnwell and some of the other analysts at grantland. They sure as hell havent depending on qbr in ages. It's embarrassing that anyone would actually cite qbr in 2015 and you would be wise to avoid that in the future.
The "rationalizing and excuse making" is called analysis, you halfwit. It's not the same as "ANYONE IN THE NFL KNOWS THIS GUY IS USELESS BECAUSE I SAID SO" and then failing to actually provide any sort of statistical proof whatsoever.
Further, you do realize that QBR and passer rating are two different metrics? What about DVOA? Or DYAR? Are those more advanced for you? Because McCown ranks 15th in both, exactly where a player of his stature should be - just about average. Essentially any efficiency metric you will find will state the same thing - McCown is playing at, or within a negligible margin of, average.
I know your mommy told you that you were a smart little boy, but she lied.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
@douche-nozzle said:
I get that but that is as good as saying "we give up, throw the little goofball in there....what the hell" And I think Pettine & Company are more interested in earning the respect of other coaches and players more so than earning the respect of Browns fans who just want to try something different.
Let's be real here. We don't know if the players respect McCown more than Manziel. Pettine said and I quote "it's a bottom line business". OK, the bottom line is 2-5.
For those who fail to admit what that means- here's the sorry details. There's 9 games left. The 5-2 Cardinals are next. Two games against the undefeated Bengals. Two games against the Steelers with a healthy Ben Rothlisberger. Road games against the Seahawks and Chiefs.
The only games that look winnable (considering the current suckiness of play exhibited by the Browns) are the Ravens and 49ers.
So we're looking at two, or maybe three more (if we're lucky) wins- regardless of who the Browns quarterback is. If Pettine is willing to go down with the Good Ship McCown- so be it. It's taking on water, and listing to starboard badly Mike- in case you haven't noticed, but the fans sure have. I think its' worth pointing out- as others have said, that scenario will leave us going into 2016 not knowing exactly what we have in Manziel.
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you two idiots will continue to cheer on mccown as he 'leads' us to winning one game out of every four.......I'll pass on that.
I've been a browns fan for awhile. Well before these two clowns(pettine and mccown) ever cashed a browns paycheck. And I'll certainly be rooting for them after pettine is shitcanned(and vegas thinks that may well be on black monday) and Mccown is cut.
So I'm able to look at the current shitshow starring Mike can't pick him out of a lineup Pettine and Mcclown and just shrug it off and wait for better days.....which in the nfl are always around the corner due to all the turnover. Fortunately that high turnover will also swallow these two clowns shortly. The rest of the nfl won't give two shits because they are so anonymous as is, but as a browns fan I will enjoy that day.
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tcpo- lmao at all the rationalizing and excuse making you did above....failing to convert is failing to convert. period. 6 points is six points. period.
And yes, there are FAR BETTER metrics for measuring qb than qbr. This isn't 1989 dude. Try reading some people who know what they are talking about with respect to efficiency ratings. Guys like Bill Barnwell and some of the other analysts at grantland. They sure as hell havent depending on qbr in ages. It's embarrassing that anyone would actually cite qbr in 2015 and you would be wise to avoid that in the future.
The "rationalizing and excuse making" is called analysis, you halfwit. It's not the same as "ANYONE IN THE NFL KNOWS THIS GUY IS USELESS BECAUSE I SAID SO" and then failing to actually provide any sort of statistical proof whatsoever.
Further, you do realize that QBR and passer rating are two different metrics? What about DVOA? Or DYAR? Are those more advanced for you? Because McCown ranks 15th in both, exactly where a player of his stature should be - just about average. Essentially any efficiency metric you will find will state the same thing - McCown is playing at, or within a negligible margin of, average.
I know your mommy told you that you were a smart little boy, but she lied.
Further, you do realize that QBR and passer rating are two different metrics? What about DVOA? Or DYAR? Are those more advanced for you? Because McCown ranks 15th in both, exactly where a player of his stature should be - just about average. Essentially any efficiency metric you will find will state the same thing - McCown is playing at, or within a negligible margin of, average.
TC- I think I pointed out if you go by some other metrics- you're 100% correct. McCown is average. His career W-L is flat out terrible. Great qbs elevate the play of lousy teams- and for the record, Josh appears incapable of doing that. Is it unfair to say- based on fan expectations, that's not good enough? He's also terrible in letting himself get sacked, and holds onto the ball too long in certain situations that results in the former?
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By the tacoboy rule we should be sitting Joe Thomas. How long has he been here and the browns still suck. I get it he's played every snap since being drafted, he's been to a pro bowl every year also. But year after year the browns end up with a losing record and he's one of the constants. Joe is a LOSER.
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you two idiots will continue to cheer on mccown as he 'leads' us to winning one game out of every four.......I'll pass on that.
I've been a browns fan for awhile. Well before these two clowns(pettine and mccown) ever cashed a browns paycheck. And I'll certainly be rooting for them after pettine is shitcanned(and vegas thinks that may well be on black monday) and Mccown is cut.
So I'm able to look at the current shitshow starring Mike can't pick him out of a lineup Pettine and Mcclown and just shrug it off and wait for better days.....which in the nfl are always around the corner due to all the turnover. Fortunately that high turnover will also swallow these two clowns shortly. The rest of the nfl won't give two shits because they are so anonymous as is, but as a browns fan I will enjoy that day.
you two idiots will continue to cheer on mccown as he 'leads' us to winning one game out of every four.......I'll pass on that.
I've been a browns fan for awhile. Well before these two clowns(pettine and mccown) ever cashed a browns paycheck. And I'll certainly be rooting for them after pettine is shitcanned(and vegas thinks that may well be on black monday) and Mccown is cut.
So I'm able to look at the current shitshow starring Mike can't pick him out of a lineup Pettine and Mcclown and just shrug it off and wait for better days.....which in the nfl are always around the corner due to all the turnover. Fortunately that high turnover will also swallow these two clowns shortly. The rest of the nfl won't give two shits because they are so anonymous as is, but as a browns fan I will enjoy that day.
So as a Browns fan you are now rooting for the team to lose so that the coach and QB that you don't like won't play here anymore. Got it.
You're no Browns fan sparky....get the fuck out of here.
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@douche-nozzle said:
I get that but that is as good as saying "we give up, throw the little goofball in there....what the hell" And I think Pettine & Company are more interested in earning the respect of other coaches and players more so than earning the respect of Browns fans who just want to try something different.
Let's be real here. We don't know if the players respect McCown more than Manziel. Pettine said and I quote "it's a bottom line business". OK, the bottom line is 2-5.
For those who fail to admit what that means- here's the sorry details. There's 9 games left. The 5-2 Cardinals are next. Two games against the undefeated Bengals. Two games against the Steelers with a healthy Ben Rothlisberger. Road games against the Seahawks and Chiefs.
The only games that look winnable (considering the current suckiness of play exhibited by the Browns) are the Ravens and 49ers.
So we're looking at two, or maybe three more (if we're lucky) wins- regardless of who the Browns quarterback is. If Pettine is willing to go down with the Good Ship McCown- so be it. It's taking on water, and listing to starboard badly Mike- in case you haven't noticed, but the fans sure have. I think its' worth pointing out- as others have said, that scenario will leave us going into 2016 not knowing exactly what we have in Manziel.
Let's be real here. We don't know if the players respect McCown more than Manziel. Pettine said and I quote "it's a bottom line business". OK, the bottom line is 2-5.
For those who fail to admit what that means- here's the sorry details. There's 9 games left. The 5-2 Cardinals are next. Two games against the undefeated Bengals. Two games against the Steelers with a healthy Ben Rothlisberger. Road games against the Seahawks and Chiefs.
The only games that look winnable (considering the current suckiness of play exhibited by the Browns) are the Ravens and 49ers.
So we're looking at two, or maybe three more (if we're lucky) wins- regardless of who the Browns quarterback is. If Pettine is willing to go down with the Good Ship McCown- so be it. It's taking on water, and listing to starboard badly Mike- in case you haven't noticed, but the fans sure have. I think its' worth pointing out- as others have said, that scenario will leave us going into 2016 not knowing exactly what we have in Manziel.
excellent analysis.....IF Pettine goes all in on Mccown these next 4-5 games, that is his decision. If we don't get to a respectable record(at least 7-9) with that decision, then hit the road pal. Dont let the door hit you in the ass. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. You are done, and there is no second chance for him.
Is he willing to take that risk on a 36 year old qb with an 18-38 career record?
Otoh, if he plays manziel, I think he *may*(big maybe) have an out an excuse if we continue to suck. Or if we show some life(and still finish like 6-10 or 7-9), he can point to a young qb maybe showing life. But there is no out or excuse or whatever with mccown. He's fucked if the browns keep losing and he plays mccown another 4-5 weeks.
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you two idiots will continue to cheer on mccown as he 'leads' us to winning one game out of every four.......I'll pass on that.
I've been a browns fan for awhile. Well before these two clowns(pettine and mccown) ever cashed a browns paycheck. And I'll certainly be rooting for them after pettine is shitcanned(and vegas thinks that may well be on black monday) and Mccown is cut.
So I'm able to look at the current shitshow starring Mike can't pick him out of a lineup Pettine and Mcclown and just shrug it off and wait for better days.....which in the nfl are always around the corner due to all the turnover. Fortunately that high turnover will also swallow these two clowns shortly. The rest of the nfl won't give two shits because they are so anonymous as is, but as a browns fan I will enjoy that day.
So as a Browns fan you are now rooting for the team to lose so that the coach and QB that you don't like won't play here anymore. Got it.
You're no Browns fan sparky....get the fuck out of here.
So as a Browns fan you are now rooting for the team to lose so that the coach and QB that you don't like won't play here anymore. Got it.
You're no Browns fan sparky....get the fuck out of here.
surprise surprise....in addition to your other shortcomings, your reading comprehension also sucks
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I bet if tacoboy's hero was behind center putting up the exact same stats with the exact same outcome he wouldn't be on his soapbox saying we need a change. Mayne sometimes the qb isn't the issue but the team is. Jake Plummer put up pretty decent stats on a bad Arizona team too.
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cdl- a 22/23 yo with almost no experience putting up the same stats WOULD be different than a 36 year career backup journeyman putting up the same stats because there is a real chance the 22/3 year old without experience could continue to improve. Thats not a hard concept to get.
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So as a Browns fan you are now rooting for the team to lose so that the coach and QB that you don't like won't play here anymore. Got it.
You're no Browns fan sparky....get the fuck out of here.
surprise surprise....in addition to your other shortcomings, your reading comprehension also sucks
surprise surprise....in addition to your other shortcomings, your reading comprehension also sucks
"Fortunately that high turnover will also swallow these two clowns shortly. The rest of the nfl won't give two shits because they are so anonymous as is, but as a browns fan I will enjoy that day."
Sounds to me like someone who is clearly rooting against this team. A FAN of the Browns would be hoping against all hope that things turn around not waiting to "enjoy the day" that the coach is fired.
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surprise surprise....in addition to your other shortcomings, your reading comprehension also sucks
"Fortunately that high turnover will also swallow these two clowns shortly. The rest of the nfl won't give two shits because they are so anonymous as is, but as a browns fan I will enjoy that day."
Sounds to me like someone who is clearly rooting against this team. A FAN of the Browns would be hoping against all hope that things turn around not waiting to "enjoy the day" that the coach is fired.
"Fortunately that high turnover will also swallow these two clowns shortly. The rest of the nfl won't give two shits because they are so anonymous as is, but as a browns fan I will enjoy that day."
Sounds to me like someone who is clearly rooting against this team. A FAN of the Browns would be hoping against all hope that things turn around not waiting to "enjoy the day" that the coach is fired.
Well, I'm hoping against hope the Browns somehow turn it around this year- but the realist in me doesn't see that happening. I'll question when I see what looks like a bad decision- but I won't be happy to see yet another coach get shit canned after two years because he's not winning.
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surprise surprise....in addition to your other shortcomings, your reading comprehension also sucks
"Fortunately that high turnover will also swallow these two clowns shortly. The rest of the nfl won't give two shits because they are so anonymous as is, but as a browns fan I will enjoy that day."
Sounds to me like someone who is clearly rooting against this team. A FAN of the Browns would be hoping against all hope that things turn around not waiting to "enjoy the day" that the coach is fired.
"Fortunately that high turnover will also swallow these two clowns shortly. The rest of the nfl won't give two shits because they are so anonymous as is, but as a browns fan I will enjoy that day."
Sounds to me like someone who is clearly rooting against this team. A FAN of the Browns would be hoping against all hope that things turn around not waiting to "enjoy the day" that the coach is fired.
again, thats your poor reading comprehension. Fortunately *the* high turnover will.....meaning it's fortunate THAT THE HIGH TURNOVER will lead to their demise. As part of that sentence it is already accepted that the browns will continue to be mediocre to bad. That's not the fortunate part. The fortunate part is that in today's nfl teams that are mediocre and worse don't get year after year after year after year.....and I'll enjoy watching pettine get fired. I won't enjoy watching the losses.
but hey, if pettine runs off 7 straight wins and takes us to the playoffs or whatever, I will be cheering as loudly as anyone. I don't think he will do that though because he is a no name know nothing tool.
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"Fortunately that high turnover will also swallow these two clowns shortly. The rest of the nfl won't give two shits because they are so anonymous as is, but as a browns fan I will enjoy that day."
Sounds to me like someone who is clearly rooting against this team. A FAN of the Browns would be hoping against all hope that things turn around not waiting to "enjoy the day" that the coach is fired.
again, thats your poor reading comprehension. Fortunately *the* high turnover will.....meaning it's fortunate THAT THE HIGH TURNOVER will lead to their demise. As part of that sentence it is already accepted that the browns will continue to be mediocre to bad. That's not the fortunate part. The fortunate part is that in today's nfl teams that are mediocre and worse don't get year after year after year after year.....and I'll enjoy watching pettine get fired. I won't enjoy watching the losses.
but hey, if pettine runs off 7 straight wins and takes us to the playoffs or whatever, I will be cheering as loudly as anyone. I don't think he will do that though because he is a no name know nothing tool.
but hey, if pettine runs off 7 straight wins and takes us to the playoffs or whatever, I will be cheering as loudly as anyone. I don't think he will do that though because he is a no name know nothing tool.
Great...we all understand your position, now shut the fuck up. Regurgitating the same bullshit week after week is really lame.
You're no different than Retard last season. One trick pony who wants to be "right".
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tcpo- lmao at all the rationalizing and excuse making you did above....failing to convert is failing to convert. period. 6 points is six points. period.
And yes, there are FAR BETTER metrics for measuring qb than qbr. This isn't 1989 dude. Try reading some people who know what they are talking about with respect to efficiency ratings. Guys like Bill Barnwell and some of the other analysts at grantland. They sure as hell havent depending on qbr in ages. It's embarrassing that anyone would actually cite qbr in 2015 and you would be wise to avoid that in the future.
tcpo- lmao at all the rationalizing and excuse making you did above....failing to convert is failing to convert. period. 6 points is six points. period.
TC laid the raw data out right before your very eyes and you refuse to see.
You have provided nothing to back up a single point you have made.
You are not worth my time...
You're no different than Retard last season. One trick pony who wants to be "right".
Only thing missing is the Mensa card...
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