Players Frustrated With O'Neil?
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http://nflspinzone.com/2015/11/05/cleveland-browns-players-frustrated-jim-oneil/
This is not an issue that is limited to a particular position group or players of a certain age. It is a consistent theme. If Head Coach Mike Pettine continues to trust in O’Neil, his loyalty could ultimately end up costing him his job.
On the field, position coaches are trying to rotate players that would be far more in line for what critics, both educated and amateur, would expect and think far more logical, only to be overruled by O’Neil. Not only is this a source of frustration for some of the players who know their position coaches believe in them and firmly believe they are better than the guys going in for them.
Players believe in what the coaches are trying to build and genuinely want to come through and help Pettine succeed. The team’s stressing of accountability has allowed them clean up locker room issues from the previous season and get everyone on the same page as far as what is expected from players both from the coaching staff as well as their teammates (Johnny Manziel, Justin Gilbert in particular). The competition has players feeling like they can earn their way on the field. Reps are not simply handed out but guys can see their hard work rewarded.All of this is great until the feeling is O’Neil is not held accountable for his mistakes. Nothing he is doing is out of the purview of his job and if were working, he would be ‘thinking outside the box’ and have a great feel for the game. Unfortunately, the results are ineffective at best and incompetent at worst. And if they were in the best interest of the team, they would be understandable growing pains. for a young coordinator. Too often, they aren’t.
This reflects badly on Pettine because he has not been willing to step in and overrule O’Neil in these situations to this point. Choosing to trust in his defensive coordinator, he is forced to own the results both on the scoreboard and then having to come up with coach speak in press conferences to answer questions about the results. Pettine knows better as evidenced by both last year and his career as a whole, but is giving a substantial leash to O’Neil in these situations, seemingly letting him learn for himself at the cost of the team.
It is important to keep in mind that last year, while then Offensive Coordinator Kyle Shanahan basically had total control of the offense with no interference from the head coach, Pettine was the true defensive coordinator with O’Neil basically as his top assistant, making suggestions as opposed to executive decisions. Player usage was far more logical, individual production was substantially better and while there were certainly major talent issues that held the team back, there were obvious playmakers and strengths in the unit.Behind closed doors, players are a little baffled in how O’Neil talks to and about players. O’Neil is loyal to the point of borderline obsessed with his stars, basically suggesting the team cannot compete without them. Rather than building up players that are developing and are one play away from the field, they feel unsupported and discouraged at times.
In this respect, the feeling is Pettine, position coaches, and most notably teammates are cleaning up that mess and keeping players motivated, ready to compete, but all of the players are increasing frustrated with O’Neil. Increasingly, what he says is becoming background noise, which is only further holding back defensive development.Don't know how much stock to put into this, considering the source, but it's still interesting to see that it's even being discussed - especially the bolded part. It also could point to our usage of Kruger. Because of his odd usage as of late, rumors were that he was being actively shopped. It was even said that we would be willing to pay part of his contract, yet we weren't able to get anything done.
Maybe it was the exact opposite - maybe Kruger's odd usage is because he's considered a "star" by O'Neil and, rather than being a one-dimensional rusher like he's been, we're trying to turn him into a well-rounded OLB.
I'm not too enthused with O'Neil from the things I've seen and read. If there were one coaching change to be made this season, I'd push for it to be him.
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O'Neil has to go. Flip is a rookie OC and even with his screw ups in games, he has taken an Offense that is devoid of star power and put a lot of points on the board.
O'Neil in his second year has taken the highest paid defense in the league to the basement. (30th in total defense. Worst in the league at rush defense)
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Agree, O'Neil is gone at season end.
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If Pettine doesn't get rid of O'Neil, he'll be going with him.
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If Pettine doesn't get rid of O'Neil, he'll be going with him.
If Pettine doesn't get rid of O'Neil, he'll be going with him.
This maybe why I keep saying "Say Bye to O'Neil after the game leading into the Bye week. Pettine proves his D will work with Pet.
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As a Yankee fan I can tell you highest paid doesn't equal most talented. Not one team in the entire NFL would trade a 4th rounder for Kruger or Haden and they make a ton of money. Until I hear a Karlos Dansby at his locker say, "this scheme is making us ineffective" I put zero stock into pundits opinions.
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As a Yankee fan I can tell you highest paid doesn't equal most talented. Not one team in the entire NFL would trade a 4th rounder for Kruger or Haden and they make a ton of money. Until I hear a Karlos Dansby at his locker say, "this scheme is making us ineffective" I put zero stock into pundits opinions.
As a Yankee fan I can tell you highest paid doesn't equal most talented. Not one team in the entire NFL would trade a 4th rounder for Kruger or Haden and they make a ton of money. Until I hear a Karlos Dansby at his locker say, "this scheme is making us ineffective" I put zero stock into pundits opinions.
Ewwwwwwwww Yankee and Celtics
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As a Yankee fan I can tell you highest paid doesn't equal most talented. Not one team in the entire NFL would trade a 4th rounder for Kruger or Haden and they make a ton of money. Until I hear a Karlos Dansby at his locker say, "this scheme is making us ineffective" I put zero stock into pundits opinions.
Ewwwwwwwww Yankee and Celtics
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It seems to be one of those where theres smoke theres fire things. There have been a lot of tidbits here and there about O'Neil and the players attitude towards him. Plenty has also been written on his unwillingness to adapt his schemes to our players skills. I think these things are true and show on the field. Friends or not sometimes as the top dog you have to make tough calls. Pettine should have likely already fired him IMO.
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Anyone who puts continues to put defensive lineman/ rush OLB in coverage after being burned on it all season ought to be fired. Here's my totally unsubstantiated take. Our D was better last year because Pettine was running it directly. This year, he handed it off to O'Neil, who figures he wants to make a name for himself as a D coordinator which he can't do if just does exactly what Pettine did last year, so he decides to "innovate" which leads to idiotic moves like dropping Kruger and Bryant into coverage. Where good coaches put their players in a position to succeed, O'Neil puts the players in a position to fail.
I bet we saw Kruger rush the passer so much last night as a result of intervention by Pettine. Pettine needs to take the next step and fire O'Neil and take over the D for the rest of the season. I don't think he will, though, because he is blinded by his loyalty to him.
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Anyone who puts continues to put defensive lineman/ rush OLB in coverage after being burned on it all season ought to be fired. Here's my totally unsubstantiated take. Our D was better last year because Pettine was running it directly. This year, he handed it off to O'Neil, who figures he wants to make a name for himself as a D coordinator which he can't do if just does exactly what Pettine did last year, so he decides to "innovate" which leads to idiotic moves like dropping Kruger and Bryant into coverage. Where good coaches put their players in a position to succeed, O'Neil puts the players in a position to fail.
I bet we saw Kruger rush the passer so much last night as a result of intervention by Pettine. Pettine needs to take the next step and fire O'Neil and take over the D for the rest of the season. I don't think he will, though, because he is blinded by his loyalty to him.
I bet we saw Kruger rush the passer so much last night as a result of intervention by Pettine. Pettine needs to take the next step and fire O'Neil and take over the D for the rest of the season.
Quite possible and long overdue intervention...
Firing? Really a case where the HC needs to consult with the leaders on D. If not only O'Neil has lost the room, but also it is irrecoverable... then yes, boot him. But if it is really a matter of X's and O's... then there's a chance O'Neil can be salvaged.
The problem with the latter though, is how did Pet allow it to get so far off the rails?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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I bet we saw Kruger rush the passer so much last night as a result of intervention by Pettine. Pettine needs to take the next step and fire O'Neil and take over the D for the rest of the season.
Quite possible and long overdue intervention...
Firing? Really a case where the HC needs to consult with the leaders on D. If not only O'Neil has lost the room, but also it is irrecoverable... then yes, boot him. But if it is really a matter of X's and O's... then there's a chance O'Neil can be salvaged.
The problem with the latter though, is how did Pet allow it to get so far off the rails?
Quite possible and long overdue intervention...Firing? Really a case where the HC needs to consult with the leaders on D. If not only O'Neil has lost the room, but also it is irrecoverable... then yes, boot him. But if it is really a matter of X's and O's... then there's a chance O'Neil can be salvaged.The problem with the latter though, is how did Pet allow it to get so far off the rails?
My guess is Pettine is loyal to a fault. Would rather give O'Neil too many chances to turn it around than undercut him by intervening. That and Pettine seems slow to adjust in about everything.
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