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  • Stats do or don't reflect the back or TE that nobody has covered standing in the middle of the field that a LB is usually assigned too? Mingo is suppose to be our best in coverage, but am I wrong saying Nate is the one usually on the field when this happens?

    Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends
  • tiamat63T tiamat63

    @gftchris said:

    Statistics can be misleading, and as ever in the NFL the sample size isn't really big enough to be definitive. That's why I'm hoping that this is the start of a new trend of being competent run defenders, rather than a blip caused by bad luck of opponents and selling out against the run.

    What prompted this all, btw, was reading about Nate Orchard becoming our best run stuffing OLB. Sack leader in college last year and he's being asked to set the edge. The mind boggles. Can someone with PFF - Mud? - have a look and see how he's grading out, if he's actually good or just best of a bad bunch?

    He's been average overall. Positive marks against the run and just over negative as a pass rusher. His awareness off the edge was impressive. Two batted passes were nice.

    I put quite a bit of stock into Orchard before the draft. While he hasn't exploded as a pass rusher yet (not that I expected him too) he's been improving as a perimeter run defender each week.

    @tiamat63 said:

    He's been average overall. Positive marks against the run and just over negative as a pass rusher. His awareness off the edge was impressive. Two batted passes were nice.

    I put quite a bit of stock into Orchard before the draft. While he hasn't exploded as a pass rusher yet (not that I expected him too) he's been improving as a perimeter run defender each week.

    Thanks, I was curious. So he's basically an average OLB? I mean, that's got to be a big upgrade on how Kruger's played this year.

  • Orchard has flashed at times, very hopeful he can be a good player long term.

    Canton DawgC 1 Reply

  • Supposing we draft Bosa - I know I'm getting ahead of myself there - he's a 4-3 DE; Orchard was a 4-3 DE before we drafted him also. So a switch to a base 4-3 might get the best out of both of those guys, but what about Danny Shelton? Can he be a 4-3 DT? He'd presumably have to shed some weight, maybe 30-40lbs. Desmond Bryant could go back inside where he was at Oakland, I think with no problem, and Jamie Meder would be ok I guess. Armonty and Kruger both look more like 4-3 DEs than 3-4 OLBs. Then you have Dansby as your Mike, flanked by any two of Kirksey, Robertson and Mingo.

    Just ruminating, nothing I say or think will ever have an impact of course.

  • gftChrisG gftChris

    Supposing we draft Bosa - I know I'm getting ahead of myself there - he's a 4-3 DE; Orchard was a 4-3 DE before we drafted him also. So a switch to a base 4-3 might get the best out of both of those guys, but what about Danny Shelton? Can he be a 4-3 DT? He'd presumably have to shed some weight, maybe 30-40lbs. Desmond Bryant could go back inside where he was at Oakland, I think with no problem, and Jamie Meder would be ok I guess. Armonty and Kruger both look more like 4-3 DEs than 3-4 OLBs. Then you have Dansby as your Mike, flanked by any two of Kirksey, Robertson and Mingo.

    Just ruminating, nothing I say or think will ever have an impact of course.

    @gftchris said:

    Supposing we draft Bosa - I know I'm getting ahead of myself there - he's a 4-3 DE; Orchard was a 4-3 DE before we drafted him also. So a switch to a base 4-3 might get the best out of both of those guys, but what about Danny Shelton? Can he be a 4-3 DT? He'd presumably have to shed some weight, maybe 30-40lbs. Desmond Bryant could go back inside where he was at Oakland, I think with no problem, and Jamie Meder would be ok I guess. Armonty and Kruger both look more like 4-3 DEs than 3-4 OLBs. Then you have Dansby as your Mike, flanked by any two of Kirksey, Robertson and Mingo.

    Just ruminating, nothing I say or think will ever have an impact of course.

    I think this coaching staff....which is supposed to be defense oriented, would be too stuck in its ways.....to insistent to employ their "system" to be flexible enough to actually let their players play at what they are best at.

    Our quickest pass rusher is never allowed to rush the passer......so what does that tell you?

  • tiamat63T tiamat63

    @gftchris said:

    Statistics can be misleading, and as ever in the NFL the sample size isn't really big enough to be definitive. That's why I'm hoping that this is the start of a new trend of being competent run defenders, rather than a blip caused by bad luck of opponents and selling out against the run.

    What prompted this all, btw, was reading about Nate Orchard becoming our best run stuffing OLB. Sack leader in college last year and he's being asked to set the edge. The mind boggles. Can someone with PFF - Mud? - have a look and see how he's grading out, if he's actually good or just best of a bad bunch?

    He's been average overall. Positive marks against the run and just over negative as a pass rusher. His awareness off the edge was impressive. Two batted passes were nice.

    I put quite a bit of stock into Orchard before the draft. While he hasn't exploded as a pass rusher yet (not that I expected him too) he's been improving as a perimeter run defender each week.

    @tiamat63 said:

    He's been average overall. Positive marks against the run and just over negative as a pass rusher. His awareness off the edge was impressive. Two batted passes were nice.

    I put quite a bit of stock into Orchard before the draft. While he hasn't exploded as a pass rusher yet (not that I expected him too) he's been improving as a perimeter run defender each week.

    @gftchris said:

    Thanks, I was curious. So he's basically an average OLB? I mean, that's got to be a big upgrade on how Kruger's played this year.

    Isn't the bigger point that in Orchard we have a real example of drafted talent developing under our current staff?

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • L LondonBrown

    Orchard has flashed at times, very hopeful he can be a good player long term.

    @londonbrown said:

    Orchard has flashed at times, very hopeful he can be a good player long term.

    Agree, he just might be a keeper.

    Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney

  • Agreed, Orchard was one of those guys just inside the bubbl that I wouldn't mind seeing being kept. He can play our edge in either a 3-4 or 4-3. He's def worth looking at for another year. If Kruger is still on the roster next year, which i doubt cause we were already shopping him...than I hope at least they put some weight back on him and have him, Orchard and Monty being DE"s.

  • no one wants to give a rookie time to develop into his pro game anymore.

  • R RoyceRolls

    no one wants to give a rookie time to develop into his pro game anymore.

    @roycerolls said:

    no one wants to give a rookie time to develop into his pro game anymore.

    CBA is the main reason for that, tho.....players are now RFA's after 3 and can leave after 4.......soooo, use em or lose em......

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