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  • D BoneD D Bone

    I think either Stafford or Kap will be here next year, and that will free up the draft to plug all the other holes.

    @d-bone said:

    I think either Stafford or Kap will be here next year, and that will free up the draft to plug all the other holes.

    Interesting. Just out of curiosity, why would Stafford be available if he was THE solution? Detroit is competing with us for the first overall pick so if he's the answer to a bad football team's problems - where is the proof he changes anything here? Same with Kap for that matter. We don't have Jim Harbaugh here borrowing many parts of Lindy Infante's offense he once played in at Indy. In SF, Alex Smith was atrocious before Harbaugh and surrounding help arrived. After that became an easier place to play QB - it didn't matter which guy they used Alex or Kap (they were at least going to the NFC Championship Game).

    For the most part, QB play hasn't been what is burying this team this year. Running game ranking 31st and defense ranking 32nd is what is putting the massive volume of hits received on our 36 year old QB. We get behind frequently and McCown is often in 3rd and long with defenses in pin their ears back mode. McCown was actually the number rated QB statistically/efficiency on 3rd downs before the St Louis game; but his problem is surviving starts and answering the bell. No chance of a balanced attack puts him in harms way too much for comfort especially at the rate our defense forfeits points.

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"
    D BoneD 1 Reply

  • I have a strong feeling the front office won't over reach for a QB as I'm sure they'll see none are screaming #1 overall material this season.

    I'm confident Farmer is also aware that McCown has been effective with a limited assortment of weapons, non existent running game and defense that ranks dead last in the NFL statistically. If you improve upon the latter two of that list, you're surely to improve your win total before even addressing the QB position.

    I'm just praying Gordon has been working as hard in his off time as he's indicated. This offense with him on the perimeter is that much more effective. Step one is solving the problems in the run game.

    MudflyM FlugelF 2 Replies
  • tiamat63T tiamat63

    I have a strong feeling the front office won't over reach for a QB as I'm sure they'll see none are screaming #1 overall material this season.

    I'm confident Farmer is also aware that McCown has been effective with a limited assortment of weapons, non existent running game and defense that ranks dead last in the NFL statistically. If you improve upon the latter two of that list, you're surely to improve your win total before even addressing the QB position.

    I'm just praying Gordon has been working as hard in his off time as he's indicated. This offense with him on the perimeter is that much more effective. Step one is solving the problems in the run game.

    @tiamat63 said:

    I have a strong feeling the front office won't over reach for a QB as I'm sure they'll see none are screaming #1 overall material this season.

    I have a similar feeling......and maybe nobody is a slam dunk #1 this year.....(doesnt look like it, at least)

    Which is why I wouldnt be surprised to see Farmer try to move back...yet again....and go for 2 first rounders over one high one that really isnt "that" great anyway......

    gftChrisG 1 Reply

  • Bosa worth a top five?

    C 1 Reply
  • MudflyM Mudfly

    @tiamat63 said:

    I have a strong feeling the front office won't over reach for a QB as I'm sure they'll see none are screaming #1 overall material this season.

    I have a similar feeling......and maybe nobody is a slam dunk #1 this year.....(doesnt look like it, at least)

    Which is why I wouldnt be surprised to see Farmer try to move back...yet again....and go for 2 first rounders over one high one that really isnt "that" great anyway......

    @mudfly said:

    I have a similar feeling......and maybe nobody is a slam dunk #1 this year.....(doesnt look like it, at least)

    Which is why I wouldnt be surprised to see Farmer try to move back...yet again....and go for 2 first rounders over one high one that really isnt "that" great anyway......

    Of the 'top' prospects, only really Bosa stands out as a match of need and value. You've got:

    the QBs which I think I agree they won't draft;

    two OTs - Tunsil & Stanley - we're set there;

    two DBs - hargreaves and ramsay - I think even if Gipson goes we're not drafting a safety that high, and at CB the coaches believe in Haden and have to be happy with williams, then there's a bunch of year 1/2 guys.

    So unless we're drafting Bosa, which seems logical, but if he's gone by the time we pick, I can really see us trading back with a team that needs one of those positions. Maybe san fran (QB) or san diego/TN (OT).

  • FlugelF Flugel

    @d-bone said:

    I think either Stafford or Kap will be here next year, and that will free up the draft to plug all the other holes.

    Interesting. Just out of curiosity, why would Stafford be available if he was THE solution? Detroit is competing with us for the first overall pick so if he's the answer to a bad football team's problems - where is the proof he changes anything here? Same with Kap for that matter. We don't have Jim Harbaugh here borrowing many parts of Lindy Infante's offense he once played in at Indy. In SF, Alex Smith was atrocious before Harbaugh and surrounding help arrived. After that became an easier place to play QB - it didn't matter which guy they used Alex or Kap (they were at least going to the NFC Championship Game).

    For the most part, QB play hasn't been what is burying this team this year. Running game ranking 31st and defense ranking 32nd is what is putting the massive volume of hits received on our 36 year old QB. We get behind frequently and McCown is often in 3rd and long with defenses in pin their ears back mode. McCown was actually the number rated QB statistically/efficiency on 3rd downs before the St Louis game; but his problem is surviving starts and answering the bell. No chance of a balanced attack puts him in harms way too much for comfort especially at the rate our defense forfeits points.

    @flugel said:

    Interesting. Just out of curiosity, why would Stafford be available if he was THE solution? Detroit is competing with us for the first overall pick so if he's the answer to a bad football team's problems - where is the proof he changes anything here? Same with Kap for that matter. We don't have Jim Harbaugh here borrowing many parts of Lindy Infante's offense he once played in at Indy. In SF, Alex Smith was atrocious before Harbaugh and surrounding help arrived. After that became an easier place to play QB - it didn't matter which guy they used Alex or Kap (they were at least going to the NFC Championship Game).

    For the most part, QB play hasn't been what is burying this team this year. Running game ranking 31st and defense ranking 32nd is what is putting the massive volume of hits received on our 36 year old QB. We get behind frequently and McCown is often in 3rd and long with defenses in pin their ears back mode. McCown was actually the number rated QB statistically/efficiency on 3rd downs before the St Louis game; but his problem is surviving starts and answering the bell. No chance of a balanced attack puts him in harms way too much for comfort especially at the rate our defense forfeits points.

    I have a feeling that the Browns won't repeat their actions regarding QB. I don't think they take any QB before round 4, and if either Staf or Kap become available, I could see the Browns taking a chance on either as they are young, have won at some point in their careers, and could be a viable option for several years.

    That being said, I completely agree that QB isn't our main problem (outside of Johnny Boy that is), but it is an issue and one that needs to be solidified ASAP. Our defense is the elephant in the room that Pet doesn't seem to want to acknowledge, but at some point after the gun sounds for the last game, he better acknowledge it or he might find himself working for food.

    FlugelF 1 Reply

  • Just find the flashiest player with the lowest upside and you have our man/men!

  • D BoneD D Bone

    @flugel said:

    Interesting. Just out of curiosity, why would Stafford be available if he was THE solution? Detroit is competing with us for the first overall pick so if he's the answer to a bad football team's problems - where is the proof he changes anything here? Same with Kap for that matter. We don't have Jim Harbaugh here borrowing many parts of Lindy Infante's offense he once played in at Indy. In SF, Alex Smith was atrocious before Harbaugh and surrounding help arrived. After that became an easier place to play QB - it didn't matter which guy they used Alex or Kap (they were at least going to the NFC Championship Game).

    For the most part, QB play hasn't been what is burying this team this year. Running game ranking 31st and defense ranking 32nd is what is putting the massive volume of hits received on our 36 year old QB. We get behind frequently and McCown is often in 3rd and long with defenses in pin their ears back mode. McCown was actually the number rated QB statistically/efficiency on 3rd downs before the St Louis game; but his problem is surviving starts and answering the bell. No chance of a balanced attack puts him in harms way too much for comfort especially at the rate our defense forfeits points.

    I have a feeling that the Browns won't repeat their actions regarding QB. I don't think they take any QB before round 4, and if either Staf or Kap become available, I could see the Browns taking a chance on either as they are young, have won at some point in their careers, and could be a viable option for several years.

    That being said, I completely agree that QB isn't our main problem (outside of Johnny Boy that is), but it is an issue and one that needs to be solidified ASAP. Our defense is the elephant in the room that Pet doesn't seem to want to acknowledge, but at some point after the gun sounds for the last game, he better acknowledge it or he might find himself working for food.

    @d-bone said:

    I have a feeling that the Browns won't repeat their actions regarding QB. I don't think they take any QB before round 4, and if either Staf or Kap become available, I could see the Browns taking a chance on either as they are young, have won at some point in their careers, and could be a viable option for several years.

    That being said, I completely agree that QB isn't our main problem (outside of Johnny Boy that is), but it is an issue and one that needs to be solidified ASAP. Our defense is the elephant in the room that Pet doesn't seem to want to acknowledge, but at some point after the gun sounds for the last game, he better acknowledge it or he might find himself working for food.

    I like your reply here D Bone. I also keep forgetting we still have Connor Shaw stashed away on an injury list. If he can get his arm a little stronger - he was actually off to a better start than Manziel anyway. He showed up with a comfort of passing in the pocket coming off an incredible TD to INT ratio in the SEC. That's still a project like Austin Davis - it's just a lot less expensive.

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"
  • tiamat63T tiamat63

    I have a strong feeling the front office won't over reach for a QB as I'm sure they'll see none are screaming #1 overall material this season.

    I'm confident Farmer is also aware that McCown has been effective with a limited assortment of weapons, non existent running game and defense that ranks dead last in the NFL statistically. If you improve upon the latter two of that list, you're surely to improve your win total before even addressing the QB position.

    I'm just praying Gordon has been working as hard in his off time as he's indicated. This offense with him on the perimeter is that much more effective. Step one is solving the problems in the run game.

    @tiamat63 said:

    I have a strong feeling the front office won't over reach for a QB as I'm sure they'll see none are screaming #1 overall material this season.

    I'm confident Farmer is also aware that McCown has been effective with a limited assortment of weapons, non existent running game and defense that ranks dead last in the NFL statistically. If you improve upon the latter two of that list, you're surely to improve your win total before even addressing the QB position.

    I'm just praying Gordon has been working as hard in his off time as he's indicated. This offense with him on the perimeter is that much more effective. Step one is solving the problems in the run game.

    Very good points made here. Maybe Josh Gordon will finally get it next year. If so, he could have a lot do do with the running game improving.

    When Shanny brought his zbs to Atlanta to install their new and improved running game - how much did he love knowing he had the size and perimeter speed of Julio Jones outside? That's a very balanced attack making Matt Ryan really cozy this year.

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"

  • What ever happened with Josh & his agents appeal on length of contract remaining? Filed but still on hold till suspension ends?

    Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends
  • LogicIsForSquaresL LogicIsForSquares

    Bosa worth a top five?

    @logicisforsquares said:

    Bosa worth a top five?

    if he was "just" a pass rusher, I dunno maybe...but the fact he's a 5 tool lineman...yes. He's one of the best run stoppers in all of college football. He beats a lot of top level linebackers in tackle for loss stats. You can see why when you watch him, his fundamentals are pristine. He reads the play than reacts. Watched tape of him reacting to the read option "perfectly"....there's top level NFL lineman that don't have his technique. There's a very good chance he goes first in the draft because of this

  • and he's strong as shit, which allows him to hold off OL at the point while he reads the play. Than effortlessly disengages. I know people have been saying he's been playing low level talent this year, but he was holding off MI ST's OL just the same as he always does, and they were a top 3 OL if I correctly remember what the commentators said during the game.

    FlugelF 1 Reply

  • Cleve...

    Please let me know what 2015 game I need to watch to see what you are saying.

    http://draftbreakdown.com/players/joey-bosa/

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • C Clevfan4life

    and he's strong as shit, which allows him to hold off OL at the point while he reads the play. Than effortlessly disengages. I know people have been saying he's been playing low level talent this year, but he was holding off MI ST's OL just the same as he always does, and they were a top 3 OL if I correctly remember what the commentators said during the game.

    @clevfan4life said:

    and he's strong as shit, which allows him to hold off OL at the point while he reads the play. Than effortlessly disengages. I know people have been saying he's been playing low level talent this year, but he was holding off MI ST's OL just the same as he always does, and they were a top 3 OL if I correctly remember what the commentators said during the game.

    Michigan State hasn't exactly experienced Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome about this effortlessly disengaging you describe since they really needed 1 blocker all 2nd half they ran right at Bosa for game tying/go ahead points.They even missed a FG in another drive it worked well. The biggest play Bosa had an impact on was when he kicked inside to face a cup protection where there is usually 1 double team closest to the snap so he drew it. #6 lined up in Bosa's DE spot and made a huge play for the Ohio State defense.

    If people think he's the next JJ Watt or Reggie White, they need to use a better measuring stick than Illinois. JJ dominated Ohio State and moved around to show he could whip their All Conference Center or line up outside and win. Neither White or Watt needed excuses and explanations at the NFL level when they got doubled/chipped all the time plus swatting away little RBs that seem to give Bosa much needed alibis. Reggie White set a sack record with that kind of attention all the time. Watt has looked just as impressive.

    Sparty started the day ready to chip w/ a TE and keep a RB in until they realized it wasn't necessary. They adjusted their amount of attention to Bosa. Consequently, all the guys around Bosa weren't getting off their blockers any better than he was in the 2nd half when MSU ran the ball off tackle right where Bosa was lining up. This put stopping the run squarely was in the hands of the OSU secondary or occasionally Bosa some 10-15 yards downfield. Not that much different than what we want to upgrade in Cleveland except the heavy winds and hard rain made passing a bad idea for both teams last Saturday (especially the team rotating their 2nd and 3rd string QB). If our biggest problem in Cleveland is stopping the off tackle runs that have consistently gashed us - let's be honest what we saw from Bosa in the closest matchup he's seen to an NFL caliber challenge as our alleged easy solution. Seems to me, that would have been a perfect game for Bosa to deliver the STFU performance to anyone questioning why he's being mentioned as a top 5 gotta have pick.

    Hoorta brought up Big Daddy Wilkinson in one of our countless Bosa threads. One team thought he was an immediate answer to all their problems early in a draft. He wasn't immediate but became a good DT that had a decent length career starting. Sometimes guys like Tony Mandarach and Robert Gallery get hyper-inflated up the draft charts and become a disappointing outcome to an unreasonably high early expectation. Then when you look back on their careers, they settled in to become reliable starters for playoff teams at a different positions than they were drafted to play. More specifically, the biggest thing wrong was where they were drafted prompting unreasonable expectations like Big Daddy ran into. Bosa has the fitness for the right coaching staff to tap and develop; but getting drafted in the top 5 hardly ever guarantees the right coaching staff.

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"

  • So in other words Flugel, he's a sure take for the hapless Browns FO. 😉

  • T TexasAg1969

    So in other words Flugel, he's a sure take for the hapless Browns FO. 😉

    @texasag1969 said:

    So in other words Flugel, he's a sure take for the hapless Browns FO. 😉

    Precisely.

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"

  • Uh Flugel they most certainly did not run right at him all night. And they most certainly put more than one blocker on him. And give that entire defense some credit, the offense was going 3's and out all night long....by 4th quarter some runs were starting to spring a bit yes, but that was a great defensive game for the most part by the Bucks.

    FlugelF 1 Reply

  • And what game were you watching? Bosa was around the ball all game. They did not shut that dude down at all, and you could see they clearly gameplanned specifically for him. So for one guy to sometimes see 3 guys on him, and still impact plays on a down to down basis.....I saw nothing that said hey maybe this guy isn't top 5 material. If anything it proved he was if what the commentators said about the MI St O line was true.

    tiamat63T 1 Reply

  • bosa has looked okay all year but nothing that screams top 5 pick to me

    C 1 Reply

  • Bosa is a solid player, but this year I haven't seen max effort. In the Indiana game, he slept walked the entire 1st half, but when it was close at the end he turned it on and was very disruptive.

    When he is giving it 100%, he's scary good, but I didnt see him doing that early this season. His tape will show a solid Dlineman most the time with a nasty streak, particularly in the most clutch times...

    Top 5?...

    This year probably because I'm not sure this is a very good draft, especially at the top... He is certainly the best looking rush defender of all the D-lineman I've seen...

    #Justsayin'
    C Tour2maT 2 Replies
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