Kruger Knows What You're Feeling Mario
-
You're still ignoring the numbers Fluges.....but I didnt expect anything different.....
Show me where Kruger covers more.....or how the D changed this year to make him worse....or why Armonty and Orchard can get to the QB, while Kruger cant....
And I didnt "not share" anything....I compared 16 game seasons so the numbers stacked fairly....
Yeah...Kruger had 4 post season sacks....on a Super Bowl team where he was surrounded by TOP quality players.....he NEVER saw a double team, so life was good that particular year....(funny how Baltimore never thought he was good enough to start)
He complained about it. you read everything but you magically missed that? Just last week, there's a replay of Armonty Bryant covering Anquan Boldin while we're thanking our lucky stars the QB was only Blaine Gabbert.
Mud, the parallels of drop off in sack volumes for both Mario and Kruger by 10 sacks in season #2 of Ryan/Pett final install have both edge rushers fielding similar complaints.I know you tried to tell me Buffalo played 4-3 but I corrected that by naming all 4 LBers and who the 3 who began the year up front.
If things are as flawless as you think here - why so many 2nd year slumps in the system starting with Haden week 1 (and not getting any better vrs Oakland's rookie a few weeks later before getting injured), Gipson, Whitner, K'Wuan Williams, Craig Robertson (who enjoyed his best year at the end of 2014), even our best 2 gap linemen John Hughes, while Kirksey still looks to be on a learning curve. Hopefuls to grow into positions like Carder and Bademosi and even Solomon - just didn't develop. Is it the teachers or just a bunch of really bad students?
Offensively, Benjamin, Barnidge and all the QBs enjoyed massive improvements so their position coaches deserve my praise.I never thought Schwartz was a bad football player or run blocker in particular when we never had as much trouble running outside of tackle as we did inside of tackle prior to 2014. Not only that, but the zbs at Cal was what made him a 2nd round prospect so returning to that comfort zone should have brought out the best in him in 2014 and he's played very well again in 2015. One is only surprised about that if they sucked in the past. Greco came off his best season in 2014 but 2015 doesn't look nearly as good to me outside of last week. Bitonio, who you and I agreed was a great pick had a noticeable soph slump while I've seen Joe Thomas play much better football than I have in 2015 - same with Mack even though I get the injury excuse to an extent. Crow averaged 5.4 yards a carry for about 6-8 weeks in 2014 and he's had a big slump until last week's measuring stick. Gabriel had a gigantic soph slump prior to the post traumatic stress collisions caused by St Louis' secondary.
Our Special Teams continuity of flags during the returns and/or kicks getting blocked at the worst of times or roughing a punter after we held Oakland to a rare 3 and out - haven't really given me the silver linings from this staff to cling to. I'm trying to give you examples of what I think about what Pettine's hand selected teachers for progress in Cleveland. We're not 3-15 in our last 18 games simply by accident. Way too many 2nd year slumps on the defense and in our running game coupled with a STs unit that remains frustrating to watch in Tabor's 3rd year here.
What's not rational about thinking we deserve so much better - especially someone as loyal and devoted as you are? You deserve better Mud and that doesn't make you a bad fan or bad guy for raising your expectation above 1999 for 2015 and 2016. When I'm not feeling good about a part of this team - I go find me some Mudfly to read and so does a lot of people in here. I never wanted to be feeling this frustrated but I can't get myself to pretend we're all set with the trend at hand right now my man.
He complained about it. you read everything but you magically missed that? Just last week, there's a replay of Armonty Bryant covering Anquan Boldin while we're thanking our lucky stars the QB was only Blaine Gabbert.
He didnt complain. The Browns were trying to trade him and no one wanted him. When asked "why", he said probably because of the way they are using me. That, btw, was week 4.....the same week I mentioned the Browns made changes to how they were using him....just more facts, not innuendo...
Plus....the replay was of ORCHARD covering and I posted images of the play.....instead of "guessing"(which you are, cause it wasnt even Armonty)...why not looks at the play?.....cause, you know what, nothing was wrong with that coverage.....and the play went no where.....
Mud, the parallels of drop off in sack volumes for both Mario and Kruger by 10 sacks in season #2 of Ryan/Pett final install have both edge rushers fielding similar complaints.I know you tried to tell me Buffalo played 4-3 but I corrected that by naming all 4 LBers and who the 3 who began the year up front.
I gave you Buffalos depth chart. Go to their site and read the positions. There is not one place anywhere that calls them a 3-4 or Williams a OLB.... Again, Buffalo had record sacks with Pettine.....Kruger had record sacks with Pettine......YET, you somehow only want to blame Pettine for Krugers return to normal and Williams drop off.....makes zero sense....
If things are as flawless as you think here - why so many 2nd year slumps in the system starting with Haden week 1 (and not getting any better vrs Oakland's rookie a few weeks later before getting injured), Gipson, Whitner, K'Wuan Williams, Craig Robertson (who enjoyed his best year at the end of 2014), even our best 2 gap linemen John Hughes, while Kirksey still looks to be on a learning curve. Hopefuls to grow into positions like Carder and Bademosi and even Solomon - just didn't develop. Is it the teachers or just a bunch of really bad students?
1) Never said anything was flawless....stop going to extremes.....and every guy you listed has had their best season under Pett also, so why not give credit for that, if youre gonna tear him down for any drop offs.????...
What's not rational about thinking we deserve so much better - especially someone as loyal and devoted as you are? You deserve better Mud and that doesn't make you a bad fan or bad guy for raising your expectation above 1999 for 2015 and 2016. When I'm not feeling good about a part of this team - I go find me some Mudfly to read and so does a lot of people in here. I never wanted to be feeling this frustrated but I can't get myself to pretend we're all set with the trend at hand right now my man.
See...I dont see another new GM or Coach as "raising the bar".....I just see more years of bullshit and revolving door and an unwillingness of our owner to work through shit and allow the players to get acclimated to a system and Coachig staff....
Is it possible that players will get better with a thrid year in the same system?.....hell yes it is.....
Is it likely they will get better with all new coaches AND a new system.....NO....not if history is to be believed....
-
Cowher, Gruden and Dungy are all buying houses in Cleveland. For the Dungy lovers.....he was quoted this week as saying he wouldn't have drafted Manziel and he wouldn't want that distraction in his locker room. So for the Dungy lovers, say goodbye to JFF should that rumor come true.
Oh stop! So stick with the 3-15 trend? Super! Why expect progress since 1999 when it's only December of 2015?
While none of those guys want any part of Cleveland - Bruce Arians made a point to say he was disappointed Cleveland never gave him a chance to interview for a HC vacancy. That should tell us a right guy for the job is capable of being out there unless you feel a 3-15 trend is as good as it gets here.
Oh stop! So stick with the 3-15 trend? Super! Why expect progress since 1999 when it's only December of 2015?
While none of those guys want any part of Cleveland - Bruce Arians made a point to say he was disappointed Cleveland never gave him a chance to interview for a HC vacancy. That should tell us a right guy for the job is capable of being out there unless you feel a 3-15 trend is as good as it gets here.
Great...so fire him and maybe we get Bruce Arians. But we also could get Mike McCoy or Sparano or any other number of coordinators being given the step up to a HC and when they suck, we start all over in 2 year again? That's worked out well for us so far.
-
If they fire Pettine, there is not a single coach worth his salt that would come here and accept a 2 year deal to make this team a winner.....not a single one.....
So....fire away and then get ready for 5 more years of shit.......(along with another 2.5 HC's)
I don't know why people don't understand this. If we fire Pettine this franchise goes into the black hole of shit football play cause not only will we not get good coaches, the only players we're gonna get are lower tier players trying to make a name or older players no one else wants to give that last contract to. This will be shit. Yes, more shit than it already is if that's conceivable. That comment from Bosa the other week is imo the beginning of a list of talented players that will not just salt the org but also the city so that it makes 100% sure no one here will want anything to do with them. Does the word pariah cover this?
I don't know why people don't understand this. If we fire Pettine this franchise goes into the black hole of shit football play cause not only will we not get good coaches, the only players we're gonna get are lower tier players trying to make a name or older players no one else wants to give that last contract to. This will be shit. Yes, more shit than it already is if that's conceivable. That comment from Bosa the other week is imo the beginning of a list of talented players that will not just salt the org but also the city so that it makes 100% sure no one here will want anything to do with them. Does the word pariah cover this?
You think we have good coaching going on? Look at the numbers, look at the trend, look at the only teams we've beaten.
I heard the same stuff a few years and then I read and heard Bruce Arians say he was disappointed we didn't think he was worthy of an interview. Where's Arizona heading this year? Does that reflect a good group of coaches with players buying into their philosophy and teachings?
-
Oh stop! So stick with the 3-15 trend? Super! Why expect progress since 1999 when it's only December of 2015?
While none of those guys want any part of Cleveland - Bruce Arians made a point to say he was disappointed Cleveland never gave him a chance to interview for a HC vacancy. That should tell us a right guy for the job is capable of being out there unless you feel a 3-15 trend is as good as it gets here.
Great...so fire him and maybe we get Bruce Arians. But we also could get Mike McCoy or Sparano or any other number of coordinators being given the step up to a HC and when they suck, we start all over in 2 year again? That's worked out well for us so far.
-
Cowher, Gruden and Dungy are all buying houses in Cleveland. For the Dungy lovers.....he was quoted this week as saying he wouldn't have drafted Manziel and he wouldn't want that distraction in his locker room. So for the Dungy lovers, say goodbye to JFF should that rumor come true.
Oh stop! So stick with the 3-15 trend? Super! Why expect progress since 1999 when it's only December of 2015?
While none of those guys want any part of Cleveland - Bruce Arians made a point to say he was disappointed Cleveland never gave him a chance to interview for a HC vacancy. That should tell us a right guy for the job is capable of being out there unless you feel a 3-15 trend is as good as it gets here.
Oh stop! So stick with the 3-15 trend? Super! Why expect progress since 1999 when it's only December of 2015?
While none of those guys want any part of Cleveland - Bruce Arians made a point to say he was disappointed Cleveland never gave him a chance to interview for a HC vacancy. That should tell us a right guy for the job is capable of being out there unless you feel a 3-15 trend is as good as it gets here.
i would say that last year was the trend we should be looking at. this year even with added depth at corner, no rookie or old vet signing can replace a haden and IMO letting sheard go was a mistake, plus the tougher schedule hasn't helped.
what happens, happens and me advocating for one side does nothing BUT the lack of continuity in this organization is appalling. if you want to look it up and look at some stats (i'm not going to do it cuz i'm too lazy) i'd like to see the comparison of the franchises that have had their coaches longer than.....let's say 5 years winning percentages and playoff appearances is to those franchises like the browns who continue to hire and fire guys every FUCKING year.
i'm sorry. i like pettine. i think he's an honest upfront guy. i'd rather have that than some weasel money grab fat walrus that everyone and their mother thought would be the saviour of cleveland.
so for prognostication purposes i am 2 and 2 on this thread and will be 3 and 3 when haslam keeps pettine on for the 3rd year.
-
And this thread was stared on the premise that Williams and Kruger cover too much...
Ive shown the stats prove otherwise with "kruger"......and Ive shown the Coaching staff has adjusted and given Kruger his wish to "just rush" for the last 9 weeks....
So.....since the whole thread is about that....and Ive shown he doesnt cover hardly at all any more.....and watching the game replays I can see he's NEVER double covered.....why can he NOT get to the QB.....
Its not as if our coaches are out there holding him back in those "one on one" situations.....(which is the reason we tried to get rid of him and also the reason there were no takers)
But...Im sure....as with this entire thread.....THAT will all be ignored.....
Admit it Fluges....you entire argument is our W-L record(which is fine)....no problem with hating losing.....but PLEASE stop making up scheme problems that dont exist or blaming the coaches for every player that doesnt meet expectations...
-
Oh stop! So stick with the 3-15 trend? Super! Why expect progress since 1999 when it's only December of 2015?
While none of those guys want any part of Cleveland - Bruce Arians made a point to say he was disappointed Cleveland never gave him a chance to interview for a HC vacancy. That should tell us a right guy for the job is capable of being out there unless you feel a 3-15 trend is as good as it gets here.
i would say that last year was the trend we should be looking at. this year even with added depth at corner, no rookie or old vet signing can replace a haden and IMO letting sheard go was a mistake, plus the tougher schedule hasn't helped.
what happens, happens and me advocating for one side does nothing BUT the lack of continuity in this organization is appalling. if you want to look it up and look at some stats (i'm not going to do it cuz i'm too lazy) i'd like to see the comparison of the franchises that have had their coaches longer than.....let's say 5 years winning percentages and playoff appearances is to those franchises like the browns who continue to hire and fire guys every FUCKING year.
i'm sorry. i like pettine. i think he's an honest upfront guy. i'd rather have that than some weasel money grab fat walrus that everyone and their mother thought would be the saviour of cleveland.
so for prognostication purposes i am 2 and 2 on this thread and will be 3 and 3 when haslam keeps pettine on for the 3rd year.
i'd like to see the comparison of the franchises that have had their coaches longer than.....let's say 5 years
I can tell you that players who have been in the same system for years can sleep walk through their plays.....and do what comes naturally, as opposed to thinking too much.....but that takes time....
And I can also tell you "most" of the Browns know and understand the system. Last week Whitner and Dansby talked about it....said it was fairly simple, once you know it.....and they implied that "a few" Browns players weren;t getting it and weren't trying to get it..
They also implied that the "only" players unhappy with the system, just so happen to be the same guys who are struggling....
-
Oh stop! So stick with the 3-15 trend? Super! Why expect progress since 1999 when it's only December of 2015?
While none of those guys want any part of Cleveland - Bruce Arians made a point to say he was disappointed Cleveland never gave him a chance to interview for a HC vacancy. That should tell us a right guy for the job is capable of being out there unless you feel a 3-15 trend is as good as it gets here.
Great...so fire him and maybe we get Bruce Arians. But we also could get Mike McCoy or Sparano or any other number of coordinators being given the step up to a HC and when they suck, we start all over in 2 year again? That's worked out well for us so far.
Great...so fire him and maybe we get Bruce Arians. But we also could get Mike McCoy or Sparano or any other number of coordinators being given the step up to a HC and when they suck, we start all over in 2 year again? That's worked out well for us so far.
Look, I'm not gonna beg people to expect better than 3-15 football as the 2nd year of a coaching regime winds down. If you think you've mentioned all the right reasons for unchallenged tenure for Pettine - then don't come crying to me when this type of football returns once such a standard has been approved. If this was the first year, I'd be more inclined to say let's wait and see this team playing faster in the next version of it.
The reason I brought up Arians was to remind people there's always somebody. Who did Minnesota choose and how is that working? How about Oakland? Seems to me there's inspired candidates for Head Coaching jobs. Ron Rivera has also turned Carolina after some early growing pains.
Prior to Sean Payton joining New Orleans tradition of never winning a playoff game or having very many winning seasons - what needed to change all that? The right candidate interested in the challenge right after the area was decimated with a hurricane. Or, they could have just stayed defeated, approved it and kept the record skipping to same as it ever was especially after a hurricane decimated the area giving them even more excuses to do such a thing.
None of us wants to hire new coaches every 2 years but that doesn't mean we hand tenure to the next guy who fails miserably. Do we ignore this trend when we're the first team in the conference disqualified from a shot at the post season as early as 6-7 weeks remaining? That leaves a sizable chunk of preseason significance during the regular season. That's like saying we stunk in the first round of the draft since 2000 so we're just going to flush our 2016 first round pick down the toilet since we'd fail anyway.
-
Great...so fire him and maybe we get Bruce Arians. But we also could get Mike McCoy or Sparano or any other number of coordinators being given the step up to a HC and when they suck, we start all over in 2 year again? That's worked out well for us so far.
Look, I'm not gonna beg people to expect better than 3-15 football as the 2nd year of a coaching regime winds down. If you think you've mentioned all the right reasons for unchallenged tenure for Pettine - then don't come crying to me when this type of football returns once such a standard has been approved. If this was the first year, I'd be more inclined to say let's wait and see this team playing faster in the next version of it.
The reason I brought up Arians was to remind people there's always somebody. Who did Minnesota choose and how is that working? How about Oakland? Seems to me there's inspired candidates for Head Coaching jobs. Ron Rivera has also turned Carolina after some early growing pains.
Prior to Sean Payton joining New Orleans tradition of never winning a playoff game or having very many winning seasons - what needed to change all that? The right candidate interested in the challenge right after the area was decimated with a hurricane. Or, they could have just stayed defeated, approved it and kept the record skipping to same as it ever was especially after a hurricane decimated the area giving them even more excuses to do such a thing.
None of us wants to hire new coaches every 2 years but that doesn't mean we hand tenure to the next guy who fails miserably. Do we ignore this trend when we're the first team in the conference disqualified from a shot at the post season as early as 6-7 weeks remaining? That leaves a sizable chunk of preseason significance during the regular season. That's like saying we stunk in the first round of the draft since 2000 so we're just going to flush our 2016 first round pick down the toilet since we'd fail anyway.
The reason I brought up Arians was to remind people there's always somebody. Who did Minnesota choose and how is that working? How about Oakland? Seems to me there's inspired candidates for Head Coaching jobs. Ron Rivera has also turned Carolina after some early growing pains.
Ron Rivera is a horrible choice for your argument. He's been on the chopping block in Carolina for years but they stuck with him and the team has turned around. Cleveland fans would've run him out after year 2. 6-10 and 7-9 to start. Everyone in carolina hated him.
2 new coaches have worked....several haven't. It's not a guarantee that it will change if we hire the next coordinator. Could be Arians...could be Shurmer.
-
flugs there is no doubt the record sucks and pettine has to assume accountability BUT does that mean clean house? i mean look at our record with coaches. hire/fire. 1 year, 2 years? really??
so we clean house rinse and repeat how many times until you give a guy a chance through how many drafts, through injuries, through young player's growth, through finding a friggin QB, through dealing with busts and bad FA signings......... hell what 'acclaimed' coach would even set foot in cleveland with their record of hiring/firing? that's right, none.
that's why i'm thinking haslam is going to deflect and debunk all the naysayers and let pettine ride out his contract and decide then, NOT now, whether to keep him or let him go. i mean what's another year of riding through turbulence when that's all we've been doing for over 2 decades?
and as usual be careful what you wish for you holmgren lovers.
flugs there is no doubt the record sucks and pettine has to assume accountability BUT does that mean clean house? i mean look at our record with coaches. hire/fire. 1 year, 2 years? really??
so we clean house rinse and repeat how many times until you give a guy a chance through how many drafts, through injuries, through young player's growth, through finding a friggin QB, through dealing with busts and bad FA signings......... hell what 'acclaimed' coach would even set foot in cleveland with their record of hiring/firing? that's right, none.
that's why i'm thinking haslam is going to deflect and debunk all the naysayers and let pettine ride out his contract and decide then, NOT now, whether to keep him or let him go. i mean what's another year of riding through turbulence when that's all we've been doing for over 2 decades?
and as usual be careful what you wish for you holmgren lovers.
I understand where you are coming from but is the trend of 3-15 football showing progress or regression?
Today's players don't look easy to coach so there's a short window of getting the players to buy in or unite in rejecting it. I saw a buy in when we went 7-4 so you actually had to remind me not to get too optimistic last offseason/this preseason and rightfully so. That's why I welcome your feedback when you feel it's necessary. Since week 12 of 2014, I'm not sold the players accept this entire coaching staff or the philosophy as our trend of football has depicted.
And good point about Holmgren. I never thought I'd see the day an Executive making 7 figures slept in later than Barnabus Collins.
-
QBs are the reason for the examples you gave flugs. simple as that. things turned around for rivera once they got newton after building his defense.........
minnesota: bridgewater and petersen. oakland: carr and cooper arizone: really? do i have to say it?
the browns have yet to address the offense for playmakers as their #1 choices in the draft. i kinda think they wanted to build the lines and the backend of the D first. maybe, if haslam doesn't clean house, they might get that opportunity. if not, then everything is gone, once again cuz the new guy will want to reshuffle the deck and do it another way.
good luck with that.
-
The reason I brought up Arians was to remind people there's always somebody. Who did Minnesota choose and how is that working? How about Oakland? Seems to me there's inspired candidates for Head Coaching jobs. Ron Rivera has also turned Carolina after some early growing pains.
Ron Rivera is a horrible choice for your argument. He's been on the chopping block in Carolina for years but they stuck with him and the team has turned around. Cleveland fans would've run him out after year 2. 6-10 and 7-9 to start. Everyone in carolina hated him.
2 new coaches have worked....several haven't. It's not a guarantee that it will change if we hire the next coordinator. Could be Arians...could be Shurmer.
Ron Rivera is a horrible choice for your argument. He's been on the chopping block in Carolina for years but they stuck with him and the team has turned around. Cleveland fans would've run him out after year 2. 6-10 and 7-9 to start. Everyone in carolina hated him.
2 new coaches have worked....several haven't. It's not a guarantee that it will change if we hire the next coordinator. Could be Arians...could be Shurmer.
Good point about Rivera. John Harbaugh shows me it doesn't have to be an OC or DC. He began as strength coach in this league before he got promoted up to being a STs Coordinator right before he became the Head Rat. Their STs scored 2 TDs on us in that Thursday Night game. Last year, they also blocked a FG in a game they best by less than a FG.
Zimmer, Payton, Arians, and even Del Rio are all guys that worked for teams that fired their last HC. Then, Andy Reid resurfaced in KC after Rac deserved to be fired. As bad as as things are in Indy today, they made the AFC Championship in 2014 so if they draft a couple blue chip offensive linemen - my guess is the feud between Pagano and GM end.
-
my point is when does an owner actually let the coach and GM build their team? i'm sure when they were hired there was a plan and a timetable for that plan.
you can't build a high-rise without a foundation. you have to excavate, drive piles, pour foundations and build up from there. you don't fire the contractor half way through the job even though the conditions on the site have hindered construction.
-
QBs are the reason for the examples you gave flugs. simple as that. things turned around for rivera once they got newton after building his defense.........
minnesota: bridgewater and petersen. oakland: carr and cooper arizone: really? do i have to say it?
the browns have yet to address the offense for playmakers as their #1 choices in the draft. i kinda think they wanted to build the lines and the backend of the D first. maybe, if haslam doesn't clean house, they might get that opportunity. if not, then everything is gone, once again cuz the new guy will want to reshuffle the deck and do it another way.
good luck with that.
QBs are the reason for the examples you gave flugs. simple as that. things turned around for rivera once they got newton after building his defense.........
minnesota: bridgewater and petersen. oakland: carr and cooper arizone: really? do i have to say it?
the browns have yet to address the offense for playmakers as their #1 choices in the draft. i kinda think they wanted to build the lines and the backend of the D first. maybe, if haslam doesn't clean house, they might get that opportunity. if not, then everything is gone, once again cuz the new guy will want to reshuffle the deck and do it another way.
good luck with that.
Like Mark said,Carolina wasn't winning when Newton first started football games there. It was a process. They didn't expect playoffs right away - they were sensible. Jax and Oakland started rookie QBs in 2014 so guess where both teams drafted in 2015? 3rd and 4th overall so that reminds me it's a process of growing pains.Drew Brees' 3rd year ended with the worst record in the NFL so SD drafted a QB first overall the next season. Rivers held out the length of training camp and Brees went 12-4 and to the playoffs and pro bowl.I agree with you about the QB but many think that's instant. QB hasn't been our problem in 2015 - keeping opponents from scoring has made it hard to beat teams for the team that was ranked 32nd in points allowed.
Minnesota went to the playoffs with Christian Ponder because AP put that team on his back.Today, they have a better defense. Go listen to Greg Cosellabout Bridgewater's performance because he'll smmarize it way better than I can since he's seen a lot more of him.
-
And this thread was stared on the premise that Williams and Kruger cover too much...
Ive shown the stats prove otherwise with "kruger"......and Ive shown the Coaching staff has adjusted and given Kruger his wish to "just rush" for the last 9 weeks....
So.....since the whole thread is about that....and Ive shown he doesnt cover hardly at all any more.....and watching the game replays I can see he's NEVER double covered.....why can he NOT get to the QB.....
Its not as if our coaches are out there holding him back in those "one on one" situations.....(which is the reason we tried to get rid of him and also the reason there were no takers)
But...Im sure....as with this entire thread.....THAT will all be ignored.....
Admit it Fluges....you entire argument is our W-L record(which is fine)....no problem with hating losing.....but PLEASE stop making up scheme problems that dont exist or blaming the coaches for every player that doesnt meet expectations...
And this thread was stared on the premise that Williams and Kruger cover too much...
Ive shown the stats prove otherwise with "kruger"......and Ive shown the Coaching staff has adjusted and given Kruger his wish to "just rush" for the last 9 weeks....
So.....since the whole thread is about that....and Ive shown he doesnt cover hardly at all any more.....and watching the game replays I can see he's NEVER double covered.....why can he NOT get to the QB.....
Its not as if our coaches are out there holding him back in those "one on one" situations.....(which is the reason we tried to get rid of him and also the reason there were no takers)
But...Im sure....as with this entire thread.....THAT will all be ignored.....
Admit it Fluges....you entire argument is our W-L record(which is fine)....no problem with hating losing.....but PLEASE stop making up scheme problems that dont exist or blaming the coaches for every player that doesnt meet expectations...
What does ranking 32nd in points allowed heading into week 13 tell us about Pettine's defense keeping us competitive does it lend credence to only 3 wins?
How about how many soph slumps in the defensive system we're looking at?
How about all of our last 5 losses showing us giving up over 30 pointsin each outing?
How about how many defensive categories we ranked near the bottom in heading into week 13?
You think it's just the record?
How many different ways could Gruden say something is seriously wrong with this defense?
On top of all that, who here has the warm fuzzies for Tabor's STs?
Okay, at the onset of last week's game Brady Quinn announced our running game was now ranked 32nd but thankfully SF woke up a hibernating bear.
Those be my concerns.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
so you made my point. "it's a process".
i doubt firing everyone after 1-2 years is in the definition of the word 'process'.
anyhoo, i'm off to a xmas party. enjoy your sunday and......
LET'S GO BROWNS!!
-
And this thread was stared on the premise that Williams and Kruger cover too much...
Ive shown the stats prove otherwise with "kruger"......and Ive shown the Coaching staff has adjusted and given Kruger his wish to "just rush" for the last 9 weeks....
So.....since the whole thread is about that....and Ive shown he doesnt cover hardly at all any more.....and watching the game replays I can see he's NEVER double covered.....why can he NOT get to the QB.....
Its not as if our coaches are out there holding him back in those "one on one" situations.....(which is the reason we tried to get rid of him and also the reason there were no takers)
But...Im sure....as with this entire thread.....THAT will all be ignored.....
Admit it Fluges....you entire argument is our W-L record(which is fine)....no problem with hating losing.....but PLEASE stop making up scheme problems that dont exist or blaming the coaches for every player that doesnt meet expectations...
What does ranking 32nd in points allowed heading into week 13 tell us about Pettine's defense keeping us competitive does it lend credence to only 3 wins?
How about how many soph slumps in the defensive system we're looking at?
How about all of our last 5 losses showing us giving up over 30 pointsin each outing?
How about how many defensive categories we ranked near the bottom in heading into week 13?
You think it's just the record?
How many different ways could Gruden say something is seriously wrong with this defense?
On top of all that, who here has the warm fuzzies for Tabor's STs?
Okay, at the onset of last week's game Brady Quinn announced our running game was now ranked 32nd but thankfully SF woke up a hibernating bear.
Those be my concerns.
Those be my concerns.
Then why start a thread bitching about Kruger.......and Rexy.....and Williams....
Then ignore every single fact presented.
Honestly, Flugel.....how can I have a "football" discussion, when you ignore the "football" part....
Have fun with your pointless rants, like Mic, Im out.
-
Well....you know Im happy to take this one on......
Not sure why you're trying to lay Buffalo and Rexy's problems on Pettines back, considering Buffalo set their sack record at 57 with Pettine and NOW they have 19....heck of a drop off.....
1) This is an old article that keeps making the rounds. Id first point out that is is a misnomer to say Pettine and Rexy have the same D's. Rexy is running a 4-3 in Buffalo, while Pettine ran his hybrid multi front 3-4 there and here...
2) Williams is complalining about frequently having to drop into coverage. Id point out the he is a 4-3 DE and Kruger is a 3-4 OLB.....and there IS a difference....(plus, Wiiliams is a heck of a pass rusher and Kruger isnt).....
- 2013(under Pettine)....Williams dropped into coverage 7 times the WHOLE season....
- 2014............................Williams dropped into coverage 13 times the whole season....
- 2015............................Williams dropped into coverage 20 time so far....
So.....CLEARLY.....Rexy is having him cover WAY more then Pettine did, but still only 20 times(just over once a game)(whiny)
Kruger has the EXACT same #'s he had in 2013 & 2012....so it's not like he's fallen off. He's had one good season ever(in terms of sacks at least) and that was last year under Pettine.....the other 6 years he's played, he's basically sucked......and, LAST YEAR, he only had 11 sacks and nothing else.....terrible against the run......
NOW.....lets look at Krugers coverage(Ive posted this several times, but it seems not to be sinking in)......
- 2012(Baltimore)....Kruger dropped into coverage 97 times or 6.0 times per game....
- 2013(Chud)...........Kruger dropped into coverage 109 times or 6.8 times per game....
- 2014(Pettine)........Kruger dropped into coverage 65 times or 4.0 times per game...
- 2015(Pettine)........Kruger dropped into coverage 58 times or 4.4 times per game...
And the facts dont lie.....Kruger is covering LESS now than he ever has.....and whats happening in Buffalo is NOT what happened in Buffalo when Pettine was there.....Plain and simple....
Now,.....Please.....Stop making up stories Cal.....I thought you were more objective than that.....
What changed from last year???.........
1) Sheard isnt pushing the other side, which got Kruger 4 sacks last year......
2) He;s getting blocked out. Last year 2 were unblocked sacks.....(there's 6)....
3) Our DB's are not defending well, meaning the opposing QB's are not holding the ball....meaning not enough time for Kruger to get er done.....
4) Finally.....his snaps have now been cut drastically....WHY???.....cause Orchard and Armonty are getting to the QB at 2 and 3 times the efficiency that Kruger is....and they can do it within this system, while Kruger apparently cannot ....
OK, I answered your question "what has changed?"....so my question is....WHAT CHANGES when Armonty goes in ????
Buffalo is not Cleveland....Rexy is not Pettine.....A 4-3 DE is not a 3-4 OLB....and Paul Kruger aint no Mario Williams....
-
Now,.....Please.....Stop making up stories Cal.....I thought you were more objective than that..... Mudflap
*************************************************
I am not objective about our Browns. But you are claiming some kind of absolute victory about something...
with your posting of the number of times Kruger dropped back into coverage.
btw, I'm not making up stories, I am just calling out what I'm seeing, with the conclusions
as best as I can figure them. I'm not observing what you are so biased about.
And what is your point about Armonty and Orchard? They are quick, explosive, and move laterally
very, very quickly - of course they would be in pass coverage.
But Kruger isn't a bum because he isn't explosive - he's slower feetwise... Orchard used to play soccer.
he is very, very quick - he can really move.
So, Mudsies, with injuries to the secondary, Kruger NEEDS to drop back into coverage less.
Offenses can get rid of the ball way too quickly for Kruger to be able to drop back and cover and make
a difference. THAT is the point. Your posties of timssies of drop backs ... a lot is involved, and your
claim of YOUR "objectivity"....is bullcrapsies.
I say again - Pettine admitted that the Browns dline coach changed their pass rush the last game,
and the players made hay. Same freaking players, same Kruger. It was the freaking COACHES that
had to change what they were doing. The problem is/was with the COACHES on the defense, (and injuries
to the secondary, which makes the changes to the pass rush scheme all the more criitical.)
I'm not against keeping Pettine - but they have been going backasswards, Mud, and if they won't make
changes to "right the ship"....the ship is hopelessly going to sink. It would be far, far, far more preferable,
and constructive, for Pettine and his coaches to change things and fix things.
The whole point of thinking maybe they have to go.... is because the trend so far, except for the last game
vs the niners.... is that the coaches won't admit they have a problem - they just think the "players have to execute better".
So, the players executed better !!! But they executed better because they made changes - per Pettine - who gave
credit to the dline coach for making them. Same players, Mud. Bashing Kruger just makes you miss the point.
-
Those be my concerns.
Then why start a thread bitching about Kruger.......and Rexy.....and Williams....
Then ignore every single fact presented.
Honestly, Flugel.....how can I have a "football" discussion, when you ignore the "football" part....
Have fun with your pointless rants, like Mic, Im out.
Then why start a thread bitching about Kruger.......and Rexy.....and Williams....
Then ignore every single fact presented.
Honestly, Flugel.....how can I have a "football" discussion, when you ignore the "football" part....
Have fun with your pointless rants, like Mic, Im out.
I haven't ignored your football parts - I just don't agree with you. DEs don't cover people downfield out of a 3 point stance so I disagree that Buffalo runs a 4-3. I even gave you the names of their 4 LBers. All you did was look a depth chart online that listed Mario as a DE and drew your conclusion. How often have you seen a guy in a 3 point stance covering people downfield or finding reason to complain about doing so?
What facts are you presenting about a defensive scheme working in Cleveland that I'm ignoring? Examples?
Who's player faster and more instinctive this year? Sounds like you ought to have a bunch of these....
Give me examples of great tackling, shedding blocks and swarming opposing running games at the point of attack.
Give me examples of us sacking/hurrying opposing passers better than we did in 2014.
Give me a reason why I should be happy that we allowed over 30 points in our last 5 consecutive losses.
We're debating progress vrs regression.
What players in the second year of Pettine's defense are better than they were last year?
Robertson?
Gipson?
Haden prior to injury?
K'Wuan Williams?
Whitner?
Kruger?
Kirksey?
Hughes?
Desir?
Poyer?
D. Bryant?
Understanding all that, I also mentioned where we ranked statistically in many areas defensively as well as point allowed.
I'm sorry but nothing is reflecting this defense is going in the right direction prior to today's game.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login