Take notes from R.Wilson...
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Pet would have zero issues with the way Wilson played today.
Pet would have zero issues with JM playing the way Wilson played today.
JM may have better physical tools than Wilson, but Wilson is far better between the ears... and I am talking solely about on the field.
Wilson makes reads and throws with anticipation... and you can note that all you want, but noting ain't doing.
Pet would have zero issues with the way Wilson played today.
Pet would have zero issues with JM playing the way Wilson played today.
JM may have better physical tools than Wilson, but Wilson is far better between the ears... and I am talking solely about on the field.
Wilson makes reads and throws with anticipation... and you can note that all you want, but noting ain't doing.
For the most part, exactly what I was going to respond with. Especially the bold.
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Pet would have zero issues with the way Wilson played today.
Pet would have zero issues with JM playing the way Wilson played today.
JM may have better physical tools than Wilson, but Wilson is far better between the ears... and I am talking solely about on the field.
Wilson makes reads and throws with anticipation... and you can note that all you want, but noting ain't doing.
Pet would have zero issues with the way Wilson played today.
Pet would have zero issues with JM playing the way Wilson played today.
JM may have better physical tools than Wilson, but Wilson is far better between the ears... and I am talking solely about on the field.
Wilson makes reads and throws with anticipation... and you can note that all you want, but noting ain't doing.
If your argument is that Wilson is a better QB than Manziel today, especially playing with the Seahawks offense and with their defense in support, I don't see anyone disagreeing. If your argument is that Wilson is a more developed QB than Manziel that has a stronger understanding of the game I don't think you will see anyone disagreeing. That's not the point.
The point is can Manziel develop in to Wilson or similar? I would say the potential is absolutely there. Manziel has better physical tools and is a ferocious competitor. What he lacks is experience and talent around him. Wilson has been surrounded by great talent and a great and supportive coach his entire career, something Manziel can't say.
The greater point though is that the problem with the Browns is not the QB position, or at least it is well down the list. The OL is lacking. The defense is terrible. The WR's are mediocre to horrific. The TE is good.
Take the high draft pick and get another high end OL, a pass rushing DE, or a game breaking WR and build around those areas. The worst case is you build a real team around the QB and if Manziel flames out you have a team you can put a QB in to without throwing him to the dogs.
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I've said this multiple times, and I'll say it again....Johnny doesn't run NEAR enough. I completely realize that Johnny needs to develop his pocket skills, and I also realize that scrambling is a good way to get yourself injured. However, Johnny leaves large chunks of yards on the table whenever I see him play. I DO love that he really is making progress within the scope of the offense, and it's exciting to see him look through reads and fire the ball from the pocket, but there are multiple times every time I see him play where he could absolutely GASH the defense for big yards and probably slide to avoid being crunched.
I'm curious as to whether Johnny is focusing so much on throwing from the pocket, or if the coaches have told him NOT to run. Even on his amazing touchdown throw, I think I'd rather see him run it in. He would've gotten hit, and he may not have made it in, but I think he would've. The throw across his body to Gary took forever to get there, and it could've been broken up. Gary did a nice job of shielding the defender and securing the ball, but even the announcer thought it was strange that Johnny didn't just run it in. There's no way to know if he would've made it, and ultimately he made a FINE play, so I don't want to seem like I'm knocking the kid.
Maybe Johnny just needs to figure out the balance between staying in the pocket and running. It's not like he's had a ton of playing time, and perhaps he's so focused on improving his pocket skills, that he's just not thinking about scrambling. The more he plays, and the more film he watches, the more efficient he'll get at picking his times to run. QB's running creates a lot of problems for defenses. You do it a few times, and you make them adjust. You start to dictate how THEY play, and not the other way around. Remember the Jets game where Johnny ran a few times for big gains? I believe almost all of them were wiped out by holding calls, but those are the kind of runs that can really make a difference.
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It's not about NEEDING to run, it's about picking the times to get some big yards when the opportunity presents itself, and it's especially important when the receiving corp isn't exactly top notch. Look at what Wilson did. He didn't need to run to win, but when he did choose to run, it was devastating. It's just another element that the defense must account for.
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John boy doesn't have the dedication, brains, anticipation, or accuracy that Wilson has.
John will never be as good as Wilson.
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Pet would have zero issues with the way Wilson played today.
Pet would have zero issues with JM playing the way Wilson played today.
JM may have better physical tools than Wilson, but Wilson is far better between the ears... and I am talking solely about on the field.
Wilson makes reads and throws with anticipation... and you can note that all you want, but noting ain't doing.
And very few Cleveland Browns fans would have an issue with Mike Pettine if the defense gave up a lot less points and the receivers dropped less balls... But who's counting?Pet would have zero issues with the way Wilson played today.
Pet would have zero issues with JM playing the way Wilson played today.
JM may have better physical tools than Wilson, but Wilson is far better between the ears... and I am talking solely about on the field.
Wilson makes reads and throws with anticipation... and you can note that all you want, but noting ain't doing.
WSS
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usually tho the big runs happen because of the holding calls. If he needs to run to win then he needs to go. the GREATS never needed to run.
usually tho the big runs happen because of the holding calls. If he needs to run to win then he needs to go. the GREATS never needed to run.
The hate is strong with you.
Many great QB's have also been runners. Of course you have to be a passer first but being able to run is an extra tool that can makes passing and even running by the RB's easier. It forces a defense to account for the QB as a run threat and that means one less guy that is either rushing or covering WR's.
As for the competitor comment, of course being a competitor does not make someone a great QB. However if you are not a competitor you will never be a great QB. It's one of many skills any QB needs in the NFL to be highly successful.
Will Manziel be great? No one knows at this point. He has shown flashes and he has talent. He also has shown he has a lot of work to do. That's not unusual for any NFL QB with his level of game experience, much less one who has limited talent around him and a terrible defense. If you make a list of the Top 10 QB's in the league very few of them were better than average in their first 10 starts even if they had talent around them.
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He's ahead off any QB coming up in this draft so it's a moot point. Let him play and develop like all the other QB's who came in with him. If after next year you have the same criticism, i.e. no improvement, then find another. But it's too late and far too short a time to find another in a weak QB class IMHO. The games I watched with the next savior playing showed he had too slow a release and did not go through progressions very well. Another project. Improve the players around JM and fix the D. Then we will be competitive.
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Pet would have zero issues with the way Wilson played today.
Pet would have zero issues with JM playing the way Wilson played today.
JM may have better physical tools than Wilson, but Wilson is far better between the ears... and I am talking solely about on the field.
Wilson makes reads and throws with anticipation... and you can note that all you want, but noting ain't doing.
If your argument is that Wilson is a better QB than Manziel today, especially playing with the Seahawks offense and with their defense in support, I don't see anyone disagreeing. If your argument is that Wilson is a more developed QB than Manziel that has a stronger understanding of the game I don't think you will see anyone disagreeing. That's not the point.
The point is can Manziel develop in to Wilson or similar? I would say the potential is absolutely there. Manziel has better physical tools and is a ferocious competitor. What he lacks is experience and talent around him. Wilson has been surrounded by great talent and a great and supportive coach his entire career, something Manziel can't say.
The greater point though is that the problem with the Browns is not the QB position, or at least it is well down the list. The OL is lacking. The defense is terrible. The WR's are mediocre to horrific. The TE is good.
Take the high draft pick and get another high end OL, a pass rushing DE, or a game breaking WR and build around those areas. The worst case is you build a real team around the QB and if Manziel flames out you have a team you can put a QB in to without throwing him to the dogs.
Ag, as of now I disagree, but as always, I admire your devotion...
If your argument is that Wilson is a better QB than Manziel today, especially playing with the Seahawks offense and with their defense in support, I don't see anyone disagreeing. If your argument is that Wilson is a more developed QB than Manziel that has a stronger understanding of the game I don't think you will see anyone disagreeing. That's not the point.
The point is can Manziel develop in to Wilson or similar? I would say the potential is absolutely there. Manziel has better physical tools and is a ferocious competitor. What he lacks is experience and talent around him. Wilson has been surrounded by great talent and a great and supportive coach his entire career, something Manziel can't say.
The greater point though is that the problem with the Browns is not the QB position, or at least it is well down the list. The OL is lacking. The defense is terrible. The WR's are mediocre to horrific. The TE is good.
Take the high draft pick and get another high end OL, a pass rushing DE, or a game breaking WR and build around those areas. The worst case is you build a real team around the QB and if Manziel flames out you have a team you can put a QB in to without throwing him to the dogs.
Context is important. My argument was against the claims the OP was making, e.g., " I saw JM pass up a few open running lanes because he's being coached not to take off, ever...", which IMO is absolute horseshit.
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John boy doesn't have the dedication, brains, anticipation, or accuracy that Wilson has.
John will never be as good as Wilson.
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Um, Wilson is a good qb with a GREAT defense. 15 qb's or more would consiztently win on that Seattle team. Even this year, a "down" year for them, they are #1 in points allowed.
How good would Wilson be if he had to play against the Seattle defense.... Probably about as good as Johnny was.
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As a Browns fan I find it insulting to ever compare JM to R. Wilson. Who are you trying to kid?
John is a complete waste, he is the asshole version of colt McCoy at best. Mccown was this teams best qb by a fucking mile this year.
I get it though some lighthearted fans are so ready for lightning in a bottle that they will jump on any fucking circus bandwagon.
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
Just saw a stat that Wilson has 19 TD passes in the last 5 games. 18 from the pocket.
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As a Browns fan I find it insulting to ever compare JM to R. Wilson. Who are you trying to kid?
John is a complete waste, he is the asshole version of colt McCoy at best. Mccown was this teams best qb by a fucking mile this year.
I get it though some lighthearted fans are so ready for lightning in a bottle that they will jump on any fucking circus bandwagon.
If that bandwagon is a QB with any kind of promise, sign me up. When was the last time we had a decent QB. Under 52 years old like your savior McCown?As a Browns fan I find it insulting to ever compare JM to R. Wilson. Who are you trying to kid?
John is a complete waste, he is the asshole version of colt McCoy at best. Mccown was this teams best qb by a fucking mile this year.
I get it though some lighthearted fans are so ready for lightning in a bottle that they will jump on any fucking circus bandwagon.
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Im not saying Mccown is a savior but its a simple fact he outworked, outplayed, and just simply outclassed John. Like I said no better than Colt McCoy. Kids a loser.
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
Im not saying Mccown is a savior but its a simple fact he outworked, outplayed, and just simply outclassed John. Like I said no better than Colt McCoy. Kids a loser.
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Russell Wilson is a once in a decade find with a championship pedigree.
Johhny Manziel is just a guy.
Z
Zombo said:
Russell Wilson is a once in a decade find with a championship pedigree.
Johhny Manziel is just a guy.
Z
Well said! Wilson is a proven winner and he is elite! His second year he beat, Aaron Rodgers, Manning, Brees, and Brady. Then won a Super Bowl. He's light years ahead of Manziel!
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