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Another defensive scheme question?

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  • Even when the secondary was healthy, they sucked.

    Joe Haden is an average CB, and well paid, Whitner is old and well paid, Gibson has looked like garbage all year.

    "And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve."
  • gumby73G gumby73

    Buddy Ryan is rolling in his grave. Rob out of football. Rex with a suppose to be better personal line up than us, has now lost his Defensive personal, now talking. This system now does not work due to coaches that understand what the tape shows. The Wild Cat will never work for the same reasons Flipo, Pryor not fooling anyone till he throws the ball.

    @gumby73 said:

    Buddy Ryan is rolling in his grave. Rob out of football. Rex with a suppose to be better personal line up than us, has now lost his Defensive personal, now talking. This system now does not work due to coaches that understand what the tape shows. The Wild Cat will never work for the same reasons Flipo, Pryor not fooling anyone till he throws the ball.

    I think you mean IF Buddy Ryan were dead, he would be rolling in his grave.

    Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney
    gumby73G 1 Reply

  • We are all rolling over in our graves watching this defense

    And we are all still alive

    "And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve."

  • Even when the secondary was healthy, they sucked.


    149


    *****************************


    Not last year. Ask A. J. Green and Antonio Brown.



    Haden is all pro for a reason. He is having a tough year this year.


    I hope he comes back to form next year.


  • How good was he when he got burned for a late Td against Jax last year or when he got beat all day by the Jets this year....

    He is no great shut down CB

    never was

    He is like Johnny, fools gold.....Looks good sometimes, and then looks like crap

    Joe Haden is one of the most overrated CB in the NFL. Always has been.

    "And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve."
    👍
  • Canton DawgC Canton Dawg

    @gumby73 said:

    Buddy Ryan is rolling in his grave. Rob out of football. Rex with a suppose to be better personal line up than us, has now lost his Defensive personal, now talking. This system now does not work due to coaches that understand what the tape shows. The Wild Cat will never work for the same reasons Flipo, Pryor not fooling anyone till he throws the ball.

    I think you mean IF Buddy Ryan were dead, he would be rolling in his grave.

    @canton-dawg said:

    I think you mean IF Buddy Ryan were dead, he would be rolling in his grave.

    I apologize to all Ryan's in the world. Buddy is just fine at the age of 84 but he did lose his wife to Alzheimer per Wicko. Send no Bounty Thugs 😉 Needs to retrain his Ryan Tree (part 6).

    Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends
    Canton DawgC 1 Reply

  • Watching the Saints tonight. I'm guessing they run the same defense as the Browns......

    The Ryan family defense has been figured out.

    "And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve."
    👍

  • well then, name one cb in NFL history that never made a mistake,

    never gave up a touchdown.

    Go ahead, make my haysies.

  • They all give up big plays

    Joe Haden gives them up every week

    Just watch the games

    When the other team needs a big play, they TARGET Haden

    "And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve."

  • only because he was playing hurt.

    look at his stats against the leagues best wr's last year.

    I'm correct here:

    http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2013/11/24/Head-to-head-Steelers-WR-Antonio-Brown-vs-Browns-CB-Joe-Haden/stories/201311240090

    http://www.nfl.com/fantasyfootball/story/0ap2000000284211/article/start-your-wrs-against-joe-haden-at-your-own-risk

    yes, that's from 2013. He struggled this year. I hope he's okay for next year.

    Ipo is coming....

  • This is 2015. What happened in 2014?

    "And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve."
  • Yeah... Joe killed us in those 5 games he appeared in... even though we won two of them...
    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196

  • You can claim Haden is all that

    watch him play. He gets beat all the time.

    He gets beat way more then he makes a play

    Almost anyone can make the pro-bowl

    Look at Whitner, or Gibson

    "And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve."
    The GipperT tiamat63T 2 Replies

  • I truly believe our corners are told to play that far off the ball because the coaches know they would get beat over the top on every play if they started at the line if scrimmage.. Our strategy against Seattle looked like it was solely concerned with avoiding the big play. The defense did this effectively. The problem is Seattle dinked and dunked across the field for long scoring drives and made us pay anyway..

  • gumby73G gumby73

    @canton-dawg said:

    I think you mean IF Buddy Ryan were dead, he would be rolling in his grave.

    I apologize to all Ryan's in the world. Buddy is just fine at the age of 84 but he did lose his wife to Alzheimer per Wicko. Send no Bounty Thugs 😉 Needs to retrain his Ryan Tree (part 6).

    @gumby73 said:

    I apologize to all Ryan's in the world. Buddy is just fine at the age of 84 but he did lose his wife to Alzheimer per Wicko. Send no Bounty Thugs 😉 Needs to retrain his Ryan Tree (part 6).

    No apology needed, I would say the rest of your post was spot on.
    Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney
  • Browns149B Browns149

    This happened at least 3 times yesterday.

    It was 3rd down and 6 or 7. The Browns rush 3 or 4. Then they play off the WR's 8-10 yards.

    And at the snap, the db's back up even farther.

    Might have been the easiest 1st downs all day.

    Also I saw Rex Ryan say they have too many DL in coverage. Don't the Bills run the same defense we do?

    @browns149 said:

    This happened at least 3 times yesterday.

    It was 3rd down and 6 or 7. The Browns rush 3 or 4. Then they play off the WR's 8-10 yards.

    And at the snap, the db's back up even farther.

    Might have been the easiest 1st downs all day.

    Also I saw Rex Ryan say they have too many DL in coverage. Don't the Bills run the same defense we do?

    I see what you are saying, and the short answer is...there is no short answer. We tried a bunch of different looks, but nothing worked on third down. Seattle was totally in control and it was impressive. Even if we DID manage to get a little pressure on Russell, he just turbo shoots out of the defender's way, and his receivers are VERY adept at getting open for him. As far as the 3rd and 6's when they just ran a simple "stop route" at the sticks...that shit is annoying. It's also very difficult to stop. Our defender can't get beat on the "stop and go" route, because very likely that's a touchdown. Add in the fact that it's Gaines or Bademosi out there defending it, or even Desir...it's just not a formula for success. The Seattle offense was about as well-oiled as I've ever seen. They had an answer for everything, and it just goes to show how much talent we DON'T have.

  • Right.....we usually play man and try to bump the WR at the line(inside 5 yrds)......But Bademosi, Gaines and Desir definitely are not good enough to play man and, therefore, play back some.....

    I will say that Gaines and Whitner got into it on the sideline and it was because Gaines was playing back too far and Whitner got after him about it....so, at least, Whitner was trying to get him to step up and take on the WR man to man.....

    And, while Gaines has made a few good plays and looks decent for a 6th rounder in his 3rd game.....neither he, Desir nor Bademosi are starter quality players(right now).....and having 2 of them on the field at the same time(which we do) is a HUGE liability and something any good QB could take advantage of......

    jiggins7919J 1 Reply
    👍
  • Browns149B Browns149

    You can claim Haden is all that

    watch him play. He gets beat all the time.

    He gets beat way more then he makes a play

    Almost anyone can make the pro-bowl

    Look at Whitner, or Gibson

    @browns149 said:

    You can claim Haden is all that

    watch him play. He gets beat all the time.

    He gets beat way more then he makes a play

    Almost anyone can make the pro-bowl

    Look at Whitner, or Gibson....we don't have a player on this team by that name.

    And Joe H. has been hurt....so I am giving him the benefit of the doubt.

  • MudflyM Mudfly

    Right.....we usually play man and try to bump the WR at the line(inside 5 yrds)......But Bademosi, Gaines and Desir definitely are not good enough to play man and, therefore, play back some.....

    I will say that Gaines and Whitner got into it on the sideline and it was because Gaines was playing back too far and Whitner got after him about it....so, at least, Whitner was trying to get him to step up and take on the WR man to man.....

    And, while Gaines has made a few good plays and looks decent for a 6th rounder in his 3rd game.....neither he, Desir nor Bademosi are starter quality players(right now).....and having 2 of them on the field at the same time(which we do) is a HUGE liability and something any good QB could take advantage of......

    @mudfly said:

    Right.....we usually play man and try to bump the WR at the line(inside 5 yrds)......But Bademosi, Gaines and Desir definitely are not good enough to play man and, therefore, play back some.....

    I will say that Gaines and Whitner got into it on the sideline and it was because Gaines was playing back too far and Whitner got after him about it....so, at least, Whitner was trying to get him to step up and take on the WR man to man.....

    And, while Gaines has made a few good plays and looks decent for a 6th rounder in his 3rd game.....neither he, Desir nor Bademosi are starter quality players(right now).....and having 2 of them on the field at the same time(which we do) is a HUGE liability and something any good QB could take advantage of......

    That's basically it in a nutshell. Our scheme requires a high level of skill at the CB position, mainly being adept at bump and run, isolation coverage. Bademosi isn't anywhere NEAR able to run that kind of scheme effectively, and again, what completely screwed our defense was the ineffectiveness of Justin Gilbert. Once Haden went down, we didn't have a guy that we could plug in and play. That started a domino effect that we couldn't recover from. Should we have better backups that fit the scheme? Should our coaches have the ability to make adjustments? I don't know, but what I DO know is watching Bademosi out there hurts to watch.

    MudflyM 1 Reply
  • Browns149B Browns149

    You can claim Haden is all that

    watch him play. He gets beat all the time.

    He gets beat way more then he makes a play

    Almost anyone can make the pro-bowl

    Look at Whitner, or Gibson

    @browns149 said:

    You can claim Haden is all that

    watch him play. He gets beat all the time.

    He gets beat way more then he makes a play

    Almost anyone can make the pro-bowl

    Look at Whitner, or Gibson

    Are you referring to this season alone? Because it feels like you're basing everything on your short term memory.

    Let me say this now. Haden isn't your physical specimen playing CB. He doesn't have elite speed or acceleration nor size.

    What he does have is great footwork, hand usage, route recognition and the ability to flip his hips, plant his foot in the ground and drive on the route. Couple that with having the attitude of a guy that was never picked first for church basketball and you have a fine DB.

    Joe has been a damn good corner for several years and when you have a hip injury playing DB, few things can be worse to hinder your ability to play to the strengths you've been blessed with.

    It's no coincidence Gipson's play has fallen off. He's no longer being asked to do what he does best - recognize route tree's and play center field. It's what makes Earl Thomas so damn great. If you ask a safety to constantly play over the top and limit where he can roam, you're going to see a decrease in game changing plays, pretty simple.

    Also, when you're in man coverage THAT much.. WR's in this league will make catches. They're professional athlete's as well and you're going to lose a few battles here and there.

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