This Is Not A 5 Year Process Guys.....
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I admit to being one of the people who thought Pettine would stick around early on, but I also didn't imagine he'd only win three games. What I didn't realize until midway through the season is Pettine's ultimate downfall and the reason for a 3-13 record was in the poor culture he created on the team. Lazy training camp, being too friendly with the players, and not holding people accountable resulted in the team sucking.
I think most of the people who believe turning the team around will take five years also believe that the team has no talent and that it will take that long to build up the roster. I personally think it'll take 2-3 years, but the #1 issue isn't talent, it is culture. If Jackson can turn around the culture quickly, I expect us to finish with 6-8 wins next year and with playoff contention the next.
IMO, the right culture can turn decent players into good ones and good ones into Pro-Bowlers.
"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta -
I don't really know about your points - but the most important thing I think is that we see progress. If we're 3-13 in two years then I mean that isn't the best situation, although no way in flying hell do I want to see another coach fired for a looooooong time.
I liked that Jackson ignored the idea that it's a multi-year process, said they go in every Sunday to win now - which is the right mentality for a coach to have. I also liked that he leaked confidence and didn't say "ummm", "hmmmm"
We may not be a playoff team in 2 years, but it'd be nice to be 8-8 and a few pieces away from contention - but can't get my hopes up yet.
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i was one of the "who can we get better" people. I am pleasantly surprised the Browns landed Hue Jackson. Every year I try not to get my hopes up too much but I am cautiously optimistic about this hire, I hope he sticks around longer than 2 years.
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This is the point where I love mentioning the fact to people that "worst to first" occurred in the NFL for 11 years in a row:
http://thebiglead.com/2013/08/14/nfl-worst-to-first-streak-at-10-years-who-will-it-be-in-2013/
It's cooled off the past couple of years, but the thought of a team not being a contender for 3-5 years is stupid too. You get the right players, coaches and a true franchise QB the tide turns quickly.
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yes but it takes more than one year to get your players, have everyone learn new systems and have everything gel all at once.
if you think hue jackson or even jon 'suck his dick now' gruden can waltz through the doors in berea and turn this franchise into a playoff team in one freaking year you are delusional. 2 years? no. 3 years maybe but by then all of you will be screaming for a new coach, so does it really even matter?
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I admit to being one of the people who thought Pettine would stick around early on, but I also didn't imagine he'd only win three games. What I didn't realize until midway through the season is Pettine's ultimate downfall and the reason for a 3-13 record was in the poor culture he created on the team. Lazy training camp, being too friendly with the players, and not holding people accountable resulted in the team sucking.
I think most of the people who believe turning the team around will take five years also believe that the team has no talent and that it will take that long to build up the roster. I personally think it'll take 2-3 years, but the #1 issue isn't talent, it is culture. If Jackson can turn around the culture quickly, I expect us to finish with 6-8 wins next year and with playoff contention the next.
IMO, the right culture can turn decent players into good ones and good ones into Pro-Bowlers.
I think most of the people who believe turning the team around will take five years also believe that the team has no talent and that it will take that long to build up the roster.
Well, this is where I disagree with you. I truly think the team has much talent and Pettine couldnt coach them. It's obvious that we have Offense, as we scored on many teams. True, we need a taller receiver or two (perhaps Gordon and or someone from the draft). But on D, even though he as a D coordinator, we saw nothing from him. I believe that another coach can get much more from this team. It's like you said earlier, he was to relaxed with the team and didn't get enough from them. Hopefully, Hue can get more out of them. But it remains to be seen.
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I think most of the people who believe turning the team around will take five years also believe that the team has no talent and that it will take that long to build up the roster.
Well, this is where I disagree with you. I truly think the team has much talent and Pettine couldnt coach them. It's obvious that we have Offense, as we scored on many teams. True, we need a taller receiver or two (perhaps Gordon and or someone from the draft). But on D, even though he as a D coordinator, we saw nothing from him. I believe that another coach can get much more from this team. It's like you said earlier, he was to relaxed with the team and didn't get enough from them. Hopefully, Hue can get more out of them. But it remains to be seen.
Well, this is where I disagree with you. I truly think the team has much talent and Pettine couldnt coach them. It's obvious that we have Offense, as we scored on many teams. True, we need a taller receiver or two (perhaps Gordon and or someone from the draft). But on D, even though he as a D coordinator, we saw nothing from him. I believe that another coach can get much more from this team. It's like you said earlier, he was to relaxed with the team and didn't get enough from them. Hopefully, Hue can get more out of them. But it remains to be seen.
It sounds like you agree with me, not disagree. What I was saying is anyone who thinks it will take 5 years to turn this team around probably thinks the team has no talent. I personally DO think the team has talent, it's just a poor culture and coaching that led to the talent not being used to it's full potential.
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IF that OL stays intact (and it's a big if), that's a very solid building block. It *should* yield a great run game, the biggest failing of Flip last year IMO. In Barnidge, Gordon and Benjamin you have three very good receiving targets, and Duke Johnson for fun.
If nothing else, we should at least be able to score some points next year, if our guys don't all get concussions/suspensions.
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to go from a bad nfl team to a real contender.....I point this out because I hear it a lot in here. How being good in the nfl is a long slow meticulous process which takes years and you see slow gradual progress every year. NO. That's not the way it happens at all. If you take that approach in the nfl, you will CONTINUE TO SUCK.
There is just so much faulty logic in here that it takes awhile to correct, but hopefully with recent developments some of you guys who are nearly always wrong have started to see the light. For starters a ton of you were repeating the mantra midseason that Pettine would get another year and he wasn't going anywhere. Ooooops. I was on that early on......interesting how the people who felt he was safe midseason(even if the record ended up poor) still speak as if they know what the heck they are talking about.
Then when it finally dawned on them that Pettine is actually on the hot seat, they supported him coming back with the "but who can we get better" bs. I repeated again and again that seeing as there are such a limited number of these jobs(only 30) even the lower profile ones are HIGHLY COVETED and it would be easy to poach a well thought of coordinator. Well what do we do? We get a well thought of coordinator......
Now I have no idea if Jackson will be good or not, but one thing is clear- if he sucks after 2 years, he WILL hit the road. As he should. 2 years in the nfl is more than enough time to make a call on that. Building an nfl team is not building the pyramids....it's more like building a newer modular home. It goes up quick....
While I agree with most of your points, I don't think this is a 2 year deal. The Browns must get a coach in year and give him at least 5 years to get the right pieces in here. I truly believe in Haslem making sure we get this in place. Hopefully he learned from Pettine that we need this to happen. Otherwise, I truly feel sorry for the Browns. And we may certainly not live to see our Browns win a SB.
While I agree with most of your points, I don't think this is a 2 year deal. The Browns must get a coach in year and give him at least 5 years to get the right pieces in here. I truly believe in Haslem making sure we get this in place. Hopefully he learned from Pettine that we need this to happen. Otherwise, I truly feel sorry for the Browns. And we may certainly not live to see our Browns win a SB.
And Chud
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Let's hope it is not as disastrous as these 5 years:
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The Browns have far more talent that will help
make for a winning season than a lot of folks might think.
I believe that if the Browns were only getting to the point now,
where they were five years ago...
Hue would have seen it as a hopeless endeavor.
The Browns are not all that far away.
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Browns 2016 AFC North Champs
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Wow... let's all set the expectations unreasonably high... again.
"It doesn't take five-years, unless of course Hue sucks and is fired after 2 years, in which case it will take 5, but I'll reset the clock with Hue's replacement and say it doesn't."
"Our talent improved with the simple replacement of Pet with Hue."
Wake up folks... Hue entered saying the same thing Pet did leaving... "It's a process."
No, you don't fix on five-years. No, you don't accept it has to be five-years. But neither of those attitudes mean it is not going to take five-years.
As noted by someone above, what you want to see is progress. The worst thing Hue could do is fall into an artificially good 1st season like our last HC did. Fortunately it does not look like there's much chance of that based upon our 2016 opponents.
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Yeah the Pettine pickle pumpers have been quiet lately.
It was silly to advocate the keeping of a shit coach because you were worried about their replacement.
:neutral_face: -
The upside with Hue, is that he has the experience as a hc already.
And, he is innovative on both sides of the ball.
And as much as he inspired the Browns in the interviews,and many fans.... he is also inspiring the players, past and present, already.
You take nearly the same group of players, reorganize priorities, set the systems
to match the abilities of the players you have, and enable them to be far more productive,
and be innovative...
that right there is a flip of the switch from what we've had with the other coaches who
hadn't been there before, tried to fit round pegs into square holes, played it close to
the vest out of cya....
That's just how I see it, especially after I consider I have a new knee, been two weeks and I'm
walking all around the house without a walker, and the draft will be coming up, and finally, dammit,
they will fix the wr and qb position.
I'd see a dramatic turnaround. It happened to the Rams years ago - from a losing season to the
next season which was a superbowl.
That is ridiculous - I just see a winning season next year. 9-7 would be great, 10-6 and the playoffs
would be greater.
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Yeah the Pettine pickle pumpers have been quiet lately.
It was silly to advocate the keeping of a shit coach because you were worried about their replacement.
It was silly to advocate the keeping of a shit coach because you were worried about their replacement.
It's easy now to make silly comments after we shocked the football world by actually landing one of the top two candidates in the pack.
You take nearly the same group of players, reorganize priorities, set the systems
to match the abilities of the players you have, and enable them to be far more productive,
and be innovative...
That's just how I see it, especially after I consider I have a new knee, been two weeks and I'm
walking all around the house without a walker, and the draft will be coming up, and finally, dammit,
they will fix the wr and qb position.
I'd see a dramatic turnaround. It happened to the Rams years ago - from a losing season to the
next season which was a superbowl.
That is ridiculous - I just see a winning season next year. 9-7 would be great, 10-6 and the playoffs
would be greater.
Great news on the knee!!! And obviously the Hopeium is flowing...
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Yeah the Pettine pickle pumpers have been quiet lately.
It was silly to advocate the keeping of a shit coach because you were worried about their replacement.
Yeah the Pettine pickle pumpers have been quiet lately.
It was silly to advocate the keeping of a shit coach because you were worried about their replacement.
how would YOU know if pettine was a shit coach? i mean cleveland fans gave him as much of a chance as the last 20 guys they fired making the whole sports world look at us like we are idiots.
yeah couch was a bum too. mangini was not a 'player's coach'. funny thing is someone said pettine was too soft and liked the players too much.....wha wha what? sorry to tell you folks but the big label on hue jackson IS that he IS a player's coach. so if you suddenly think the discipline level is going to rocket you're flippin insane. he went 8 and 8 in his best season as a HC (how many years did he HC btw???) which is one win better than pettine's first year. the browns will never solve their coaching problem or their win and loss problem until the fucking owner realizes that the revolving door of coaches and GMs and ceos and blah blah fucking blah just doesn't work.
shit coach? you wouldn't know a shit coach if he slapped you across your face with his dick.
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to go from a bad nfl team to a real contender.....I point this out because I hear it a lot in here. How being good in the nfl is a long slow meticulous process which takes years and you see slow gradual progress every year. NO. That's not the way it happens at all. If you take that approach in the nfl, you will CONTINUE TO SUCK.
There is just so much faulty logic in here that it takes awhile to correct, but hopefully with recent developments some of you guys who are nearly always wrong have started to see the light. For starters a ton of you were repeating the mantra midseason that Pettine would get another year and he wasn't going anywhere. Ooooops. I was on that early on......interesting how the people who felt he was safe midseason(even if the record ended up poor) still speak as if they know what the heck they are talking about.
Then when it finally dawned on them that Pettine is actually on the hot seat, they supported him coming back with the "but who can we get better" bs. I repeated again and again that seeing as there are such a limited number of these jobs(only 30) even the lower profile ones are HIGHLY COVETED and it would be easy to poach a well thought of coordinator. Well what do we do? We get a well thought of coordinator......
Now I have no idea if Jackson will be good or not, but one thing is clear- if he sucks after 2 years, he WILL hit the road. As he should. 2 years in the nfl is more than enough time to make a call on that. Building an nfl team is not building the pyramids....it's more like building a newer modular home. It goes up quick....
Now I have no idea if Jackson will be good or not, but one thing is clear- if he sucks after 2 years, he WILL hit the road. As he should. 2 years in the nfl is more than enough time to make a call on that. Building an nfl team is not building the pyramids....it's more like building a newer modular home. It goes up quick....
The debate isn't whether or not it should take five years, it's whether or not we should cut ties with a guy if we're not in the playoffs after two years.
I was pretty hard on the "fire Pettine" bandwagon, but I was also pretty hard on the "don't fire Chud" bandwagon. It's all about progress. If there's legitimate progression (say 7 wins next year and 9 the following) but we don't make the playoffs, I think it would be absolutely asinine to fire the guy. But if we see stagnation or regression ( say 6 wins for both of the next two years) then it becomes a little murkier.
There aren't too many true examples of "worst to first" that wasn't flash in the pan success. Kansas City is probably the best example in the past decade. The one thing most franchise resurgences have in common - new blood at QB. From Alex Smith to Matt Ryan to Cam Newton to Russell Wilson - elevated play from the QB position more often than not led to overall team success. Now is it a causal relationship or just an empty correlation, who knows.
Either way, I agree we should know what Hue is made of by the end of year two, barring any gigantic injury problems.
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