This Is Not A 5 Year Process Guys.....
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IF that OL stays intact (and it's a big if), that's a very solid building block. It *should* yield a great run game, the biggest failing of Flip last year IMO. In Barnidge, Gordon and Benjamin you have three very good receiving targets, and Duke Johnson for fun.
If nothing else, we should at least be able to score some points next year, if our guys don't all get concussions/suspensions.
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to go from a bad nfl team to a real contender.....I point this out because I hear it a lot in here. How being good in the nfl is a long slow meticulous process which takes years and you see slow gradual progress every year. NO. That's not the way it happens at all. If you take that approach in the nfl, you will CONTINUE TO SUCK.
There is just so much faulty logic in here that it takes awhile to correct, but hopefully with recent developments some of you guys who are nearly always wrong have started to see the light. For starters a ton of you were repeating the mantra midseason that Pettine would get another year and he wasn't going anywhere. Ooooops. I was on that early on......interesting how the people who felt he was safe midseason(even if the record ended up poor) still speak as if they know what the heck they are talking about.
Then when it finally dawned on them that Pettine is actually on the hot seat, they supported him coming back with the "but who can we get better" bs. I repeated again and again that seeing as there are such a limited number of these jobs(only 30) even the lower profile ones are HIGHLY COVETED and it would be easy to poach a well thought of coordinator. Well what do we do? We get a well thought of coordinator......
Now I have no idea if Jackson will be good or not, but one thing is clear- if he sucks after 2 years, he WILL hit the road. As he should. 2 years in the nfl is more than enough time to make a call on that. Building an nfl team is not building the pyramids....it's more like building a newer modular home. It goes up quick....
While I agree with most of your points, I don't think this is a 2 year deal. The Browns must get a coach in year and give him at least 5 years to get the right pieces in here. I truly believe in Haslem making sure we get this in place. Hopefully he learned from Pettine that we need this to happen. Otherwise, I truly feel sorry for the Browns. And we may certainly not live to see our Browns win a SB.
While I agree with most of your points, I don't think this is a 2 year deal. The Browns must get a coach in year and give him at least 5 years to get the right pieces in here. I truly believe in Haslem making sure we get this in place. Hopefully he learned from Pettine that we need this to happen. Otherwise, I truly feel sorry for the Browns. And we may certainly not live to see our Browns win a SB.
And Chud
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Let's hope it is not as disastrous as these 5 years:
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The Browns have far more talent that will help
make for a winning season than a lot of folks might think.
I believe that if the Browns were only getting to the point now,
where they were five years ago...
Hue would have seen it as a hopeless endeavor.
The Browns are not all that far away.
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Browns 2016 AFC North Champs
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Wow... let's all set the expectations unreasonably high... again.
"It doesn't take five-years, unless of course Hue sucks and is fired after 2 years, in which case it will take 5, but I'll reset the clock with Hue's replacement and say it doesn't."
"Our talent improved with the simple replacement of Pet with Hue."
Wake up folks... Hue entered saying the same thing Pet did leaving... "It's a process."
No, you don't fix on five-years. No, you don't accept it has to be five-years. But neither of those attitudes mean it is not going to take five-years.
As noted by someone above, what you want to see is progress. The worst thing Hue could do is fall into an artificially good 1st season like our last HC did. Fortunately it does not look like there's much chance of that based upon our 2016 opponents.
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Yeah the Pettine pickle pumpers have been quiet lately.
It was silly to advocate the keeping of a shit coach because you were worried about their replacement.
:neutral_face: -
The upside with Hue, is that he has the experience as a hc already.
And, he is innovative on both sides of the ball.
And as much as he inspired the Browns in the interviews,and many fans.... he is also inspiring the players, past and present, already.
You take nearly the same group of players, reorganize priorities, set the systems
to match the abilities of the players you have, and enable them to be far more productive,
and be innovative...
that right there is a flip of the switch from what we've had with the other coaches who
hadn't been there before, tried to fit round pegs into square holes, played it close to
the vest out of cya....
That's just how I see it, especially after I consider I have a new knee, been two weeks and I'm
walking all around the house without a walker, and the draft will be coming up, and finally, dammit,
they will fix the wr and qb position.
I'd see a dramatic turnaround. It happened to the Rams years ago - from a losing season to the
next season which was a superbowl.
That is ridiculous - I just see a winning season next year. 9-7 would be great, 10-6 and the playoffs
would be greater.
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Yeah the Pettine pickle pumpers have been quiet lately.
It was silly to advocate the keeping of a shit coach because you were worried about their replacement.
It was silly to advocate the keeping of a shit coach because you were worried about their replacement.
It's easy now to make silly comments after we shocked the football world by actually landing one of the top two candidates in the pack.
You take nearly the same group of players, reorganize priorities, set the systems
to match the abilities of the players you have, and enable them to be far more productive,
and be innovative...
That's just how I see it, especially after I consider I have a new knee, been two weeks and I'm
walking all around the house without a walker, and the draft will be coming up, and finally, dammit,
they will fix the wr and qb position.
I'd see a dramatic turnaround. It happened to the Rams years ago - from a losing season to the
next season which was a superbowl.
That is ridiculous - I just see a winning season next year. 9-7 would be great, 10-6 and the playoffs
would be greater.
Great news on the knee!!! And obviously the Hopeium is flowing...
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Yeah the Pettine pickle pumpers have been quiet lately.
It was silly to advocate the keeping of a shit coach because you were worried about their replacement.
Yeah the Pettine pickle pumpers have been quiet lately.
It was silly to advocate the keeping of a shit coach because you were worried about their replacement.
how would YOU know if pettine was a shit coach? i mean cleveland fans gave him as much of a chance as the last 20 guys they fired making the whole sports world look at us like we are idiots.
yeah couch was a bum too. mangini was not a 'player's coach'. funny thing is someone said pettine was too soft and liked the players too much.....wha wha what? sorry to tell you folks but the big label on hue jackson IS that he IS a player's coach. so if you suddenly think the discipline level is going to rocket you're flippin insane. he went 8 and 8 in his best season as a HC (how many years did he HC btw???) which is one win better than pettine's first year. the browns will never solve their coaching problem or their win and loss problem until the fucking owner realizes that the revolving door of coaches and GMs and ceos and blah blah fucking blah just doesn't work.
shit coach? you wouldn't know a shit coach if he slapped you across your face with his dick.
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to go from a bad nfl team to a real contender.....I point this out because I hear it a lot in here. How being good in the nfl is a long slow meticulous process which takes years and you see slow gradual progress every year. NO. That's not the way it happens at all. If you take that approach in the nfl, you will CONTINUE TO SUCK.
There is just so much faulty logic in here that it takes awhile to correct, but hopefully with recent developments some of you guys who are nearly always wrong have started to see the light. For starters a ton of you were repeating the mantra midseason that Pettine would get another year and he wasn't going anywhere. Ooooops. I was on that early on......interesting how the people who felt he was safe midseason(even if the record ended up poor) still speak as if they know what the heck they are talking about.
Then when it finally dawned on them that Pettine is actually on the hot seat, they supported him coming back with the "but who can we get better" bs. I repeated again and again that seeing as there are such a limited number of these jobs(only 30) even the lower profile ones are HIGHLY COVETED and it would be easy to poach a well thought of coordinator. Well what do we do? We get a well thought of coordinator......
Now I have no idea if Jackson will be good or not, but one thing is clear- if he sucks after 2 years, he WILL hit the road. As he should. 2 years in the nfl is more than enough time to make a call on that. Building an nfl team is not building the pyramids....it's more like building a newer modular home. It goes up quick....
Now I have no idea if Jackson will be good or not, but one thing is clear- if he sucks after 2 years, he WILL hit the road. As he should. 2 years in the nfl is more than enough time to make a call on that. Building an nfl team is not building the pyramids....it's more like building a newer modular home. It goes up quick....
The debate isn't whether or not it should take five years, it's whether or not we should cut ties with a guy if we're not in the playoffs after two years.
I was pretty hard on the "fire Pettine" bandwagon, but I was also pretty hard on the "don't fire Chud" bandwagon. It's all about progress. If there's legitimate progression (say 7 wins next year and 9 the following) but we don't make the playoffs, I think it would be absolutely asinine to fire the guy. But if we see stagnation or regression ( say 6 wins for both of the next two years) then it becomes a little murkier.
There aren't too many true examples of "worst to first" that wasn't flash in the pan success. Kansas City is probably the best example in the past decade. The one thing most franchise resurgences have in common - new blood at QB. From Alex Smith to Matt Ryan to Cam Newton to Russell Wilson - elevated play from the QB position more often than not led to overall team success. Now is it a causal relationship or just an empty correlation, who knows.
Either way, I agree we should know what Hue is made of by the end of year two, barring any gigantic injury problems.
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A head coach should be judged by progress in sutuations like this. The lack of progress, and the regression in every phase ( except maybe punting ) is what killed Pettine. Jackson should be considered safe for at least 3 seasons. If we end up 3 - 13 at the end of the third season, I will be hoping to see him leave. There is no way that will happen, in my opinion, based on what he's done in the NFL, and to see him in the press conf. This is the guy....he will turn it around soon. The players that are going through the motions, and don't want to be here, will be gone. I think we will see immediate improvement in 2016 in all areas. He will acquire better talent, and get the most out of all players. He brings with him assistants who will actually want to be here, and the entire organization will have a fresh start....not with an unknown who needs to learn the HC process, but with a guy who has been there before. I'm not saying he is the next Vince Lomardi, but I feel much more confident then I have in a long time.
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yes but it takes more than one year to get your players, have everyone learn new systems and have everything gel all at once.
if you think hue jackson or even jon 'suck his dick now' gruden can waltz through the doors in berea and turn this franchise into a playoff team in one freaking year you are delusional. 2 years? no. 3 years maybe but by then all of you will be screaming for a new coach, so does it really even matter?
yes but it takes more than one year to get your players, have everyone learn new systems and have everything gel all at once.
if you think hue jackson or even jon 'suck his dick now' gruden can waltz through the doors in berea and turn this franchise into a playoff team in one freaking year you are delusional. 2 years? no. 3 years maybe but by then all of you will be screaming for a new coach, so does it really even matter?
That was Pettine's downfall Mik. I wasn't expecting playoffs, but I was expecting progress. After going 7-4 the team fell apart- in every conceivable way. Had Mike gone at least 7-9 he'd probably still be around. That was some of the most pathetic Browns football I've ever seen. FWIW, Hue got fired after one year in Oakland, going 8-8, and Palmer was hurt.
Wow... let's all set the expectations unreasonably high... again.
"It doesn't take five-years, unless of course Hue sucks and is fired after 2 years, in which case it will take 5, but I'll reset the clock with Hue's replacement and say it doesn't."
"Our talent improved with the simple replacement of Pet with Hue."
Wake up folks... Hue entered saying the same thing Pet did leaving... "It's a process."
No, you don't fix on five-years. No, you don't accept it has to be five-years. But neither of those attitudes mean it is not going to take five-years.
As noted by someone above, what you want to see is progress. The worst thing Hue could do is fall into an artificially good 1st season like our last HC did. Fortunately it does not look like there's much chance of that based upon our 2016 opponents.
I have no expectations- but I want to see improvement this year- I can't believe the Browns overall talent is that bad.
Of course you can't always tell this early Tour- but on paper, the schedule looks easier than last year.
2016 Cleveland Browns Opponents
Home: Baltimore, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, New England, NY Jets, Dallas, NY Giants, San Diego
Away: Baltimore, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Miami, Philadelphia, Washington, Tennessee
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yes but it takes more than one year to get your players, have everyone learn new systems and have everything gel all at once.
if you think hue jackson or even jon 'suck his dick now' gruden can waltz through the doors in berea and turn this franchise into a playoff team in one freaking year you are delusional. 2 years? no. 3 years maybe but by then all of you will be screaming for a new coach, so does it really even matter?
That was Pettine's downfall Mik. I wasn't expecting playoffs, but I was expecting progress. After going 7-4 the team fell apart- in every conceivable way. Had Mike gone at least 7-9 he'd probably still be around. That was some of the most pathetic Browns football I've ever seen. FWIW, Hue got fired after one year in Oakland, going 8-8, and Palmer was hurt.
Wow... let's all set the expectations unreasonably high... again.
"It doesn't take five-years, unless of course Hue sucks and is fired after 2 years, in which case it will take 5, but I'll reset the clock with Hue's replacement and say it doesn't."
"Our talent improved with the simple replacement of Pet with Hue."
Wake up folks... Hue entered saying the same thing Pet did leaving... "It's a process."
No, you don't fix on five-years. No, you don't accept it has to be five-years. But neither of those attitudes mean it is not going to take five-years.
As noted by someone above, what you want to see is progress. The worst thing Hue could do is fall into an artificially good 1st season like our last HC did. Fortunately it does not look like there's much chance of that based upon our 2016 opponents.
I have no expectations- but I want to see improvement this year- I can't believe the Browns overall talent is that bad.
Of course you can't always tell this early Tour- but on paper, the schedule looks easier than last year.
2016 Cleveland Browns Opponents
Home: Baltimore, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, New England, NY Jets, Dallas, NY Giants, San Diego
Away: Baltimore, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Miami, Philadelphia, Washington, Tennessee
I can't believe the Browns overall talent is that bad.
It's not as bad as it seems.....with 2013 Gordon, Gipson, Haden, retaining Schwartz, Thomas, and maybe Mack (although the unit is still pretty good without Mack)
It'd be a tremendous help if we can get those 3 back to a pro bowl level though. To me, it seems like an offense that's on the brink of scoring a lot of points. Gipson/Haden could at least bring our secondary back to semi-competence.
Defense is more muddy in general, though. Whitner is over the hill, concussions plagued our other secondary talent, Tramon is old. Our entire front 7 is largely bad - with flashes from Robertson, Shelton, and Orchard.
We need a lot of help, but I don't think the situation looks as bad when you look deeper into it.
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I can't believe the Browns overall talent is that bad.
It's not as bad as it seems.....with 2013 Gordon, Gipson, Haden, retaining Schwartz, Thomas, and maybe Mack (although the unit is still pretty good without Mack)
It'd be a tremendous help if we can get those 3 back to a pro bowl level though. To me, it seems like an offense that's on the brink of scoring a lot of points. Gipson/Haden could at least bring our secondary back to semi-competence.
Defense is more muddy in general, though. Whitner is over the hill, concussions plagued our other secondary talent, Tramon is old. Our entire front 7 is largely bad - with flashes from Robertson, Shelton, and Orchard.
We need a lot of help, but I don't think the situation looks as bad when you look deeper into it.
It's not as bad as it seems.....with 2013 Gordon, Gipson, Haden, retaining Schwartz, Thomas, and maybe Mack (although the unit is still pretty good without Mack)
It'd be a tremendous help if we can get those 3 back to a pro bowl level though. To me, it seems like an offense that's on the brink of scoring a lot of points. Gipson/Haden could at least bring our secondary back to semi-competence.
Defense is more muddy in general, though. Whitner is over the hill, concussions plagued our other secondary talent, Tramon is old. Our entire front 7 is largely bad - with flashes from Robertson, Shelton, and Orchard.
We need a lot of help, but I don't think the situation looks as bad when you look deeper into it.
Regarding the o-line, that might have been coaching and scheme. They did improve the last 2 games. Gotta get a new o-line coach for sure.
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Offense looks to be heading back to a Power run game...
OL is at best a semi-power run OL.
No Power TE is insight.
We don't have a powerback.
Our undersized WR Corps doesn't block.
But yeah, plenty of quick turn talent there to win shoot outs while we transition back to a 4-3...
h,
Clearly those that preceded my post have oversized expectations. The thread is built for oversized expectations.
As for the schedule... yes, swapping the NFCW for the NFCE is a promising deal, but excepting the Giants all had good D's and the Giants have an explosive O... erratic... but explosive. Then Dallas gets Romo back and the Eagles get a HC that uses his Offensive talent and they could get good fast.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
yes but it takes more than one year to get your players, have everyone learn new systems and have everything gel all at once.
if you think hue jackson or even jon 'suck his dick now' gruden can waltz through the doors in berea and turn this franchise into a playoff team in one freaking year you are delusional. 2 years? no. 3 years maybe but by then all of you will be screaming for a new coach, so does it really even matter?
yes but it takes more than one year to get your players, have everyone learn new systems and have everything gel all at once.
if you think hue jackson or even jon 'suck his dick now' gruden can waltz through the doors in berea and turn this franchise into a playoff team in one freaking year you are delusional. 2 years? no. 3 years maybe but by then all of you will be screaming for a new coach, so does it really even matter?
More likely will be praising the new coaching hire by year 3 and talking about the which franchise QB we should draft since Goof didn't work out.
It's the Browns way."Let's run to the cemetery"
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