This Is Not A 5 Year Process Guys.....
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yes but it takes more than one year to get your players, have everyone learn new systems and have everything gel all at once.
if you think hue jackson or even jon 'suck his dick now' gruden can waltz through the doors in berea and turn this franchise into a playoff team in one freaking year you are delusional. 2 years? no. 3 years maybe but by then all of you will be screaming for a new coach, so does it really even matter?
yes but it takes more than one year to get your players, have everyone learn new systems and have everything gel all at once.
if you think hue jackson or even jon 'suck his dick now' gruden can waltz through the doors in berea and turn this franchise into a playoff team in one freaking year you are delusional. 2 years? no. 3 years maybe but by then all of you will be screaming for a new coach, so does it really even matter?
That was Pettine's downfall Mik. I wasn't expecting playoffs, but I was expecting progress. After going 7-4 the team fell apart- in every conceivable way. Had Mike gone at least 7-9 he'd probably still be around. That was some of the most pathetic Browns football I've ever seen. FWIW, Hue got fired after one year in Oakland, going 8-8, and Palmer was hurt.
Wow... let's all set the expectations unreasonably high... again.
"It doesn't take five-years, unless of course Hue sucks and is fired after 2 years, in which case it will take 5, but I'll reset the clock with Hue's replacement and say it doesn't."
"Our talent improved with the simple replacement of Pet with Hue."
Wake up folks... Hue entered saying the same thing Pet did leaving... "It's a process."
No, you don't fix on five-years. No, you don't accept it has to be five-years. But neither of those attitudes mean it is not going to take five-years.
As noted by someone above, what you want to see is progress. The worst thing Hue could do is fall into an artificially good 1st season like our last HC did. Fortunately it does not look like there's much chance of that based upon our 2016 opponents.
I have no expectations- but I want to see improvement this year- I can't believe the Browns overall talent is that bad.
Of course you can't always tell this early Tour- but on paper, the schedule looks easier than last year.
2016 Cleveland Browns Opponents
Home: Baltimore, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, New England, NY Jets, Dallas, NY Giants, San Diego
Away: Baltimore, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Miami, Philadelphia, Washington, Tennessee
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yes but it takes more than one year to get your players, have everyone learn new systems and have everything gel all at once.
if you think hue jackson or even jon 'suck his dick now' gruden can waltz through the doors in berea and turn this franchise into a playoff team in one freaking year you are delusional. 2 years? no. 3 years maybe but by then all of you will be screaming for a new coach, so does it really even matter?
That was Pettine's downfall Mik. I wasn't expecting playoffs, but I was expecting progress. After going 7-4 the team fell apart- in every conceivable way. Had Mike gone at least 7-9 he'd probably still be around. That was some of the most pathetic Browns football I've ever seen. FWIW, Hue got fired after one year in Oakland, going 8-8, and Palmer was hurt.
Wow... let's all set the expectations unreasonably high... again.
"It doesn't take five-years, unless of course Hue sucks and is fired after 2 years, in which case it will take 5, but I'll reset the clock with Hue's replacement and say it doesn't."
"Our talent improved with the simple replacement of Pet with Hue."
Wake up folks... Hue entered saying the same thing Pet did leaving... "It's a process."
No, you don't fix on five-years. No, you don't accept it has to be five-years. But neither of those attitudes mean it is not going to take five-years.
As noted by someone above, what you want to see is progress. The worst thing Hue could do is fall into an artificially good 1st season like our last HC did. Fortunately it does not look like there's much chance of that based upon our 2016 opponents.
I have no expectations- but I want to see improvement this year- I can't believe the Browns overall talent is that bad.
Of course you can't always tell this early Tour- but on paper, the schedule looks easier than last year.
2016 Cleveland Browns Opponents
Home: Baltimore, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, New England, NY Jets, Dallas, NY Giants, San Diego
Away: Baltimore, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Miami, Philadelphia, Washington, Tennessee
I can't believe the Browns overall talent is that bad.
It's not as bad as it seems.....with 2013 Gordon, Gipson, Haden, retaining Schwartz, Thomas, and maybe Mack (although the unit is still pretty good without Mack)
It'd be a tremendous help if we can get those 3 back to a pro bowl level though. To me, it seems like an offense that's on the brink of scoring a lot of points. Gipson/Haden could at least bring our secondary back to semi-competence.
Defense is more muddy in general, though. Whitner is over the hill, concussions plagued our other secondary talent, Tramon is old. Our entire front 7 is largely bad - with flashes from Robertson, Shelton, and Orchard.
We need a lot of help, but I don't think the situation looks as bad when you look deeper into it.
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I can't believe the Browns overall talent is that bad.
It's not as bad as it seems.....with 2013 Gordon, Gipson, Haden, retaining Schwartz, Thomas, and maybe Mack (although the unit is still pretty good without Mack)
It'd be a tremendous help if we can get those 3 back to a pro bowl level though. To me, it seems like an offense that's on the brink of scoring a lot of points. Gipson/Haden could at least bring our secondary back to semi-competence.
Defense is more muddy in general, though. Whitner is over the hill, concussions plagued our other secondary talent, Tramon is old. Our entire front 7 is largely bad - with flashes from Robertson, Shelton, and Orchard.
We need a lot of help, but I don't think the situation looks as bad when you look deeper into it.
It's not as bad as it seems.....with 2013 Gordon, Gipson, Haden, retaining Schwartz, Thomas, and maybe Mack (although the unit is still pretty good without Mack)
It'd be a tremendous help if we can get those 3 back to a pro bowl level though. To me, it seems like an offense that's on the brink of scoring a lot of points. Gipson/Haden could at least bring our secondary back to semi-competence.
Defense is more muddy in general, though. Whitner is over the hill, concussions plagued our other secondary talent, Tramon is old. Our entire front 7 is largely bad - with flashes from Robertson, Shelton, and Orchard.
We need a lot of help, but I don't think the situation looks as bad when you look deeper into it.
Regarding the o-line, that might have been coaching and scheme. They did improve the last 2 games. Gotta get a new o-line coach for sure.
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Offense looks to be heading back to a Power run game...
OL is at best a semi-power run OL.
No Power TE is insight.
We don't have a powerback.
Our undersized WR Corps doesn't block.
But yeah, plenty of quick turn talent there to win shoot outs while we transition back to a 4-3...
h,
Clearly those that preceded my post have oversized expectations. The thread is built for oversized expectations.
As for the schedule... yes, swapping the NFCW for the NFCE is a promising deal, but excepting the Giants all had good D's and the Giants have an explosive O... erratic... but explosive. Then Dallas gets Romo back and the Eagles get a HC that uses his Offensive talent and they could get good fast.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
yes but it takes more than one year to get your players, have everyone learn new systems and have everything gel all at once.
if you think hue jackson or even jon 'suck his dick now' gruden can waltz through the doors in berea and turn this franchise into a playoff team in one freaking year you are delusional. 2 years? no. 3 years maybe but by then all of you will be screaming for a new coach, so does it really even matter?
yes but it takes more than one year to get your players, have everyone learn new systems and have everything gel all at once.
if you think hue jackson or even jon 'suck his dick now' gruden can waltz through the doors in berea and turn this franchise into a playoff team in one freaking year you are delusional. 2 years? no. 3 years maybe but by then all of you will be screaming for a new coach, so does it really even matter?
More likely will be praising the new coaching hire by year 3 and talking about the which franchise QB we should draft since Goof didn't work out.
It's the Browns way."Let's run to the cemetery"
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Offense looks to be heading back to a Power run game...
OL is at best a semi-power run OL.
No Power TE is insight.
We don't have a powerback.
Our undersized WR Corps doesn't block.
But yeah, plenty of quick turn talent there to win shoot outs while we transition back to a 4-3...
h,
Clearly those that preceded my post have oversized expectations. The thread is built for oversized expectations.
As for the schedule... yes, swapping the NFCW for the NFCE is a promising deal, but excepting the Giants all had good D's and the Giants have an explosive O... erratic... but explosive. Then Dallas gets Romo back and the Eagles get a HC that uses his Offensive talent and they could get good fast.
Offense looks to be heading back to a Power run game...
OL is at best a semi-power run OL.
No Power TE is insight.
Barnidge our catching TE....but what about the other guys we have: Dray....Telfer?
We don't have a powerback.
The Crow can be pretty much a power back, no?
Our undersized WR Corps doesn't block.
But yeah, plenty of quick turn talent there to win shoot outs while we transition back to a 4-3...
h,
Clearly those that preceded my post have oversized expectations. The thread is built for oversized expectations.
As for the schedule... yes, swapping the NFCW for the NFCE is a promising deal, but excepting the Giants all had good D's and the Giants have an explosive O... erratic... but explosive. Then Dallas gets Romo back and the Eagles get a HC that uses his Offensive talent and they could get good fast.
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Offense looks to be heading back to a Power run game...
OL is at best a semi-power run OL.
No Power TE is insight.
Barnidge our catching TE....but what about the other guys we have: Dray....Telfer?
We don't have a powerback.
The Crow can be pretty much a power back, no?
Our undersized WR Corps doesn't block.
But yeah, plenty of quick turn talent there to win shoot outs while we transition back to a 4-3...
h,
Clearly those that preceded my post have oversized expectations. The thread is built for oversized expectations.
As for the schedule... yes, swapping the NFCW for the NFCE is a promising deal, but excepting the Giants all had good D's and the Giants have an explosive O... erratic... but explosive. Then Dallas gets Romo back and the Eagles get a HC that uses his Offensive talent and they could get good fast.
The Crow can be pretty much a power back, no?
He could if he didn't fall down at the first arm tackle.
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It will take a millennium to build a winner if we keep fuckin up every draft and picking up over the hill and lazy free agents. Hell we even drafted an over the hill fuck in Weedon! It shouldn't take but two years to vastly improve a team into a contender. Hopefully Jackson and whomever we get as GM has some clue as to what the fuck they are doing.
GO BROWNS !!!!
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The biggest issue with this team has been, and currently is, ...lack of talent.
Outside of the OL and secondary, this team is nearly void of talent.
I've heard this from Tony Dungy, Sam Rutigliano, Mike Ditka, Bill Cowher, Bernie Kosar, Doug Dieken, Josh Cribbs, and just about every other talking head that stood in front of a camera.
If the talent isn't brought in from the current analytical crew, Hue will last a year or two and will be shown the door like countless other coaches.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
This is the point where I love mentioning the fact to people that "worst to first" occurred in the NFL for 11 years in a row:
http://thebiglead.com/2013/08/14/nfl-worst-to-first-streak-at-10-years-who-will-it-be-in-2013/
It's cooled off the past couple of years, but the thought of a team not being a contender for 3-5 years is stupid too. You get the right players, coaches and a true franchise QB the tide turns quickly.
This is the point where I love mentioning the fact to people that "worst to first" occurred in the NFL for 11 years in a row:
http://thebiglead.com/2013/08/14/nfl-worst-to-first-streak-at-10-years-who-will-it-be-in-2013/
It's cooled off the past couple of years, but the thought of a team not being a contender for 3-5 years is stupid too. You get the right players, coaches and a true franchise QB the tide turns quickly.
How many in the AFCN? How many with a first year GM?
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Yeah the Pettine pickle pumpers have been quiet lately.
It was silly to advocate the keeping of a shit coach because you were worried about their replacement.
how would YOU know if pettine was a shit coach? i mean cleveland fans gave him as much of a chance as the last 20 guys they fired making the whole sports world look at us like we are idiots.
yeah couch was a bum too. mangini was not a 'player's coach'. funny thing is someone said pettine was too soft and liked the players too much.....wha wha what? sorry to tell you folks but the big label on hue jackson IS that he IS a player's coach. so if you suddenly think the discipline level is going to rocket you're flippin insane. he went 8 and 8 in his best season as a HC (how many years did he HC btw???) which is one win better than pettine's first year. the browns will never solve their coaching problem or their win and loss problem until the fucking owner realizes that the revolving door of coaches and GMs and ceos and blah blah fucking blah just doesn't work.
shit coach? you wouldn't know a shit coach if he slapped you across your face with his dick.
how would YOU know if pettine was a shit coach? i mean cleveland fans gave him as much of a chance as the last 20 guys they fired making the whole sports world look at us like we are idiots.
yeah couch was a bum too. mangini was not a 'player's coach'. funny thing is someone said pettine was too soft and liked the players too much.....wha wha what? sorry to tell you folks but the big label on hue jackson IS that he IS a player's coach. so if you suddenly think the discipline level is going to rocket you're flippin insane. he went 8 and 8 in his best season as a HC (how many years did he HC btw???) which is one win better than pettine's first year. the browns will never solve their coaching problem or their win and loss problem until the fucking owner realizes that the revolving door of coaches and GMs and ceos and blah blah fucking blah just doesn't work.
shit coach? you wouldn't know a shit coach if he slapped you across your face with his dick.
Clean Pettine's jizz out of your eyes, because you obviously didn't clearly see the shit show that was the 2015 Cleveland Browns. All you had to do was watch and see he is a shitty coach. 3-13 speaks volumes especially in year two. Does bolding your post make you feel special?
:neutral_face: -
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The biggest issue with this team has been, and currently is, ...lack of talent.
Outside of the OL and secondary, this team is nearly void of talent.
I've heard this from Tony Dungy, Sam Rutigliano, Mike Ditka, Bill Cowher, Bernie Kosar, Doug Dieken, Josh Cribbs, and just about every other talking head that stood in front of a camera.
If the talent isn't brought in from the current analytical crew, Hue will last a year or two and will be shown the door like countless other coaches.
The biggest issue with this team has been, and currently is, ...lack of talent.
Outside of the OL and secondary, this team is nearly void of talent.
I've heard this from Tony Dungy, Sam Rutigliano, Mike Ditka, Bill Cowher, Bernie Kosar, Doug Dieken, Josh Cribbs, and just about every other talking head that stood in front of a camera.
If the talent isn't brought in from the current analytical crew, Hue will last a year or two and will be shown the door like countless other coaches.
Perhaps with farmer out of the picture..talent may one day grace our field
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A head coach should be judged by progress in sutuations like this. The lack of progress, and the regression in every phase ( except maybe punting ) is what killed Pettine. Jackson should be considered safe for at least 3 seasons. If we end up 3 - 13 at the end of the third season, I will be hoping to see him leave. There is no way that will happen, in my opinion, based on what he's done in the NFL, and to see him in the press conf. This is the guy....he will turn it around soon. The players that are going through the motions, and don't want to be here, will be gone. I think we will see immediate improvement in 2016 in all areas. He will acquire better talent, and get the most out of all players. He brings with him assistants who will actually want to be here, and the entire organization will have a fresh start....not with an unknown who needs to learn the HC process, but with a guy who has been there before. I'm not saying he is the next Vince Lomardi, but I feel much more confident then I have in a long time.
A head coach should be judged by progress in sutuations like this. The lack of progress, and the regression in every phase ( except maybe punting ) is what killed Pettine.
wrong.
soft schedule < tough schedule.
good GM > bad GM.
maniel - manziel. (who will go down in history as not only a bust, but a franchise killer).
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how would YOU know if pettine was a shit coach? i mean cleveland fans gave him as much of a chance as the last 20 guys they fired making the whole sports world look at us like we are idiots.
yeah couch was a bum too. mangini was not a 'player's coach'. funny thing is someone said pettine was too soft and liked the players too much.....wha wha what? sorry to tell you folks but the big label on hue jackson IS that he IS a player's coach. so if you suddenly think the discipline level is going to rocket you're flippin insane. he went 8 and 8 in his best season as a HC (how many years did he HC btw???) which is one win better than pettine's first year. the browns will never solve their coaching problem or their win and loss problem until the fucking owner realizes that the revolving door of coaches and GMs and ceos and blah blah fucking blah just doesn't work.
shit coach? you wouldn't know a shit coach if he slapped you across your face with his dick.
Clean Pettine's jizz out of your eyes, because you obviously didn't clearly see the shit show that was the 2015 Cleveland Browns. All you had to do was watch and see he is a shitty coach. 3-13 speaks volumes especially in year two. Does bolding your post make you feel special?
Clean Pettine's jizz out of your eyes, because you obviously didn't clearly see the shit show that was the 2015 Cleveland Browns. All you had to do was watch and see he is a shitty coach. 3-13 speaks volumes especially in year two. Does bolding your post make you feel special?
are u serious?
i'm blatantly honest. if someone isn't doing their job i'd be the first to say they suck azz.
pettine's doom was taking on haslam's pick of manziel, dealing with that media circus and trying to do something with the clusterfuck farmer got him.....and i'm not even hating on farmer. but he was F'd from the start.
i guess your farmer dad should fire you when you prematurely ejaculate in your trailer ditch wool hole. meanwhile he's the one that bought you your little wooly wife.
ba hah hah.
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Clean Pettine's jizz out of your eyes, because you obviously didn't clearly see the shit show that was the 2015 Cleveland Browns. All you had to do was watch and see he is a shitty coach. 3-13 speaks volumes especially in year two. Does bolding your post make you feel special?
are u serious?
i'm blatantly honest. if someone isn't doing their job i'd be the first to say they suck azz.
pettine's doom was taking on haslam's pick of manziel, dealing with that media circus and trying to do something with the clusterfuck farmer got him.....and i'm not even hating on farmer. but he was F'd from the start.
i guess your farmer dad should fire you when you prematurely ejaculate in your trailer ditch wool hole. meanwhile he's the one that bought you your little wooly wife.
ba hah hah.
are u serious?
i'm blatantly honest. if someone isn't doing their job i'd be the first to say they suck azz.
pettine's doom was taking on haslam's pick of manziel, dealing with that media circus and trying to do something with the clusterfuck farmer got him.....and i'm not even hating on farmer. but he was F'd from the start.
i guess your farmer dad should fire you when you prematurely ejaculate in your trailer ditch wool hole. meanwhile he's the one that bought you your little wooly wife.
ba hah hah.
"Players coach" and "discipline" aren't mutually exclusive.
Some say that they perform worse under totalitarian control.
Not that Pettine was a totalitarian, but to assume that we'll be a less-disciplined team just because Hue is a fun guy is asinine.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Worst to first can happen to your avg nfl team. Browns are far from that. If they team wasn't a bucket full of trail mix. 4-3.guys 3-4 guys, spread guys, zone read guys, in between guys, tweener guys, and just straight up busted athletes. The Five year concept is that of how long a gm/coach usually takes to turn the roster into their own. Not the last guys. Or in our case the guy before him and the guy before him and the guys before them. Browns cannot even judge this FO and coach till year 3 that's a fact. But I'm sure the masses including the OP will be ready to move on after the bye week in 2016.
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
are u serious?
i'm blatantly honest. if someone isn't doing their job i'd be the first to say they suck azz.
pettine's doom was taking on haslam's pick of manziel, dealing with that media circus and trying to do something with the clusterfuck farmer got him.....and i'm not even hating on farmer. but he was F'd from the start.
i guess your farmer dad should fire you when you prematurely ejaculate in your trailer ditch wool hole. meanwhile he's the one that bought you your little wooly wife.
ba hah hah.
"Players coach" and "discipline" aren't mutually exclusive.
Some say that they perform worse under totalitarian control.
Not that Pettine was a totalitarian, but to assume that we'll be a less-disciplined team just because Hue is a fun guy is asinine.
Not that Pettine was a totalitarian, but to assume that we'll be a less-disciplined team just because Hue is a fun guy is asinine.
agree 100% BUT when the new coach's plan doesn't work out in 1-2 years in cleveland.....you could be a 'fun' guy getting a boot in your rear while laughing all the way to the bank cuz you know you know the owner gave you 5.
but hey, hue will just be another nobody in a year sitting on his couch watching pettine as a dc for somebody. then hue will be back as an oc for somebody in the next year while the coach after him is sititng there watching him.........still getting paid and none for the worse cuz cleveland football org. can't let a plan go forward because of their numbskull fans.
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Worst to first can happen to your avg nfl team. Browns are far from that. If they team wasn't a bucket full of trail mix. 4-3.guys 3-4 guys, spread guys, zone read guys, in between guys, tweener guys, and just straight up busted athletes. The Five year concept is that of how long a gm/coach usually takes to turn the roster into their own. Not the last guys. Or in our case the guy before him and the guy before him and the guys before them. Browns cannot even judge this FO and coach till year 3 that's a fact. But I'm sure the masses including the OP will be ready to move on after the bye week in 2016.
Worst to first can happen to your avg nfl team. Browns are far from that. If they team wasn't a bucket full of trail mix. 4-3.guys 3-4 guys, spread guys, zone read guys, in between guys, tweener guys, and just straight up busted athletes. The Five year concept is that of how long a gm/coach usually takes to turn the roster into their own. Not the last guys. Or in our case the guy before him and the guy before him and the guys before them. Browns cannot even judge this FO and coach till year 3 that's a fact. But I'm sure the masses including the OP will be ready to move on after the bye week in 2016.
Chip kelly could gut it in a week.
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gee, how did i know Browns fans would start piping up about being in the AFC championship in a couple years. We'll be lucky to compete for the AFC north title in a couple years. What's sad about this is that yet again fans are getting their hopes up that some new super coach will come in and we'll be spanking the North around. And in a year or two when we're winning a couple games a year, guess who will be the ones calling for Jackson to be fired. Rinse repeat. This shit never ends. Jackson will need 4-5 years to make the Browns a slightly better than .500 team. I wish you all would for once just stfu and let an apparently good coach, go to fucking work. We can't do this bring in over priced FA's to "get us over the hump". We have to build young and from scratch. Period end of discussion. This will take years.
Frankly if they stick to that plan, i'm good with watching the Browns even if they lose. If i'm watching young talent being groomed into something, i'm good. If i'm watching us bring in dubiously rated high priced FA's to plug in here and there, presumably in some effort to put people in the stands...than i know it's same old same old. I want what CIncy has done. Even if they don't make the playoffs again with this group, there's a pedigree now. There's guys that can teach the next group. We don't have that, have never had that probably since the late 80's.
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