This Is Not A 5 Year Process Guys.....
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A head coach should be judged by progress in sutuations like this. The lack of progress, and the regression in every phase ( except maybe punting ) is what killed Pettine. Jackson should be considered safe for at least 3 seasons. If we end up 3 - 13 at the end of the third season, I will be hoping to see him leave. There is no way that will happen, in my opinion, based on what he's done in the NFL, and to see him in the press conf. This is the guy....he will turn it around soon. The players that are going through the motions, and don't want to be here, will be gone. I think we will see immediate improvement in 2016 in all areas. He will acquire better talent, and get the most out of all players. He brings with him assistants who will actually want to be here, and the entire organization will have a fresh start....not with an unknown who needs to learn the HC process, but with a guy who has been there before. I'm not saying he is the next Vince Lomardi, but I feel much more confident then I have in a long time.
A head coach should be judged by progress in sutuations like this. The lack of progress, and the regression in every phase ( except maybe punting ) is what killed Pettine.
wrong.
soft schedule < tough schedule.
good GM > bad GM.
maniel - manziel. (who will go down in history as not only a bust, but a franchise killer).
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how would YOU know if pettine was a shit coach? i mean cleveland fans gave him as much of a chance as the last 20 guys they fired making the whole sports world look at us like we are idiots.
yeah couch was a bum too. mangini was not a 'player's coach'. funny thing is someone said pettine was too soft and liked the players too much.....wha wha what? sorry to tell you folks but the big label on hue jackson IS that he IS a player's coach. so if you suddenly think the discipline level is going to rocket you're flippin insane. he went 8 and 8 in his best season as a HC (how many years did he HC btw???) which is one win better than pettine's first year. the browns will never solve their coaching problem or their win and loss problem until the fucking owner realizes that the revolving door of coaches and GMs and ceos and blah blah fucking blah just doesn't work.
shit coach? you wouldn't know a shit coach if he slapped you across your face with his dick.
Clean Pettine's jizz out of your eyes, because you obviously didn't clearly see the shit show that was the 2015 Cleveland Browns. All you had to do was watch and see he is a shitty coach. 3-13 speaks volumes especially in year two. Does bolding your post make you feel special?
Clean Pettine's jizz out of your eyes, because you obviously didn't clearly see the shit show that was the 2015 Cleveland Browns. All you had to do was watch and see he is a shitty coach. 3-13 speaks volumes especially in year two. Does bolding your post make you feel special?
are u serious?
i'm blatantly honest. if someone isn't doing their job i'd be the first to say they suck azz.
pettine's doom was taking on haslam's pick of manziel, dealing with that media circus and trying to do something with the clusterfuck farmer got him.....and i'm not even hating on farmer. but he was F'd from the start.
i guess your farmer dad should fire you when you prematurely ejaculate in your trailer ditch wool hole. meanwhile he's the one that bought you your little wooly wife.
ba hah hah.
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Clean Pettine's jizz out of your eyes, because you obviously didn't clearly see the shit show that was the 2015 Cleveland Browns. All you had to do was watch and see he is a shitty coach. 3-13 speaks volumes especially in year two. Does bolding your post make you feel special?
are u serious?
i'm blatantly honest. if someone isn't doing their job i'd be the first to say they suck azz.
pettine's doom was taking on haslam's pick of manziel, dealing with that media circus and trying to do something with the clusterfuck farmer got him.....and i'm not even hating on farmer. but he was F'd from the start.
i guess your farmer dad should fire you when you prematurely ejaculate in your trailer ditch wool hole. meanwhile he's the one that bought you your little wooly wife.
ba hah hah.
are u serious?
i'm blatantly honest. if someone isn't doing their job i'd be the first to say they suck azz.
pettine's doom was taking on haslam's pick of manziel, dealing with that media circus and trying to do something with the clusterfuck farmer got him.....and i'm not even hating on farmer. but he was F'd from the start.
i guess your farmer dad should fire you when you prematurely ejaculate in your trailer ditch wool hole. meanwhile he's the one that bought you your little wooly wife.
ba hah hah.
"Players coach" and "discipline" aren't mutually exclusive.
Some say that they perform worse under totalitarian control.
Not that Pettine was a totalitarian, but to assume that we'll be a less-disciplined team just because Hue is a fun guy is asinine.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Worst to first can happen to your avg nfl team. Browns are far from that. If they team wasn't a bucket full of trail mix. 4-3.guys 3-4 guys, spread guys, zone read guys, in between guys, tweener guys, and just straight up busted athletes. The Five year concept is that of how long a gm/coach usually takes to turn the roster into their own. Not the last guys. Or in our case the guy before him and the guy before him and the guys before them. Browns cannot even judge this FO and coach till year 3 that's a fact. But I'm sure the masses including the OP will be ready to move on after the bye week in 2016.
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
are u serious?
i'm blatantly honest. if someone isn't doing their job i'd be the first to say they suck azz.
pettine's doom was taking on haslam's pick of manziel, dealing with that media circus and trying to do something with the clusterfuck farmer got him.....and i'm not even hating on farmer. but he was F'd from the start.
i guess your farmer dad should fire you when you prematurely ejaculate in your trailer ditch wool hole. meanwhile he's the one that bought you your little wooly wife.
ba hah hah.
"Players coach" and "discipline" aren't mutually exclusive.
Some say that they perform worse under totalitarian control.
Not that Pettine was a totalitarian, but to assume that we'll be a less-disciplined team just because Hue is a fun guy is asinine.
Not that Pettine was a totalitarian, but to assume that we'll be a less-disciplined team just because Hue is a fun guy is asinine.
agree 100% BUT when the new coach's plan doesn't work out in 1-2 years in cleveland.....you could be a 'fun' guy getting a boot in your rear while laughing all the way to the bank cuz you know you know the owner gave you 5.
but hey, hue will just be another nobody in a year sitting on his couch watching pettine as a dc for somebody. then hue will be back as an oc for somebody in the next year while the coach after him is sititng there watching him.........still getting paid and none for the worse cuz cleveland football org. can't let a plan go forward because of their numbskull fans.
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Worst to first can happen to your avg nfl team. Browns are far from that. If they team wasn't a bucket full of trail mix. 4-3.guys 3-4 guys, spread guys, zone read guys, in between guys, tweener guys, and just straight up busted athletes. The Five year concept is that of how long a gm/coach usually takes to turn the roster into their own. Not the last guys. Or in our case the guy before him and the guy before him and the guys before them. Browns cannot even judge this FO and coach till year 3 that's a fact. But I'm sure the masses including the OP will be ready to move on after the bye week in 2016.
Worst to first can happen to your avg nfl team. Browns are far from that. If they team wasn't a bucket full of trail mix. 4-3.guys 3-4 guys, spread guys, zone read guys, in between guys, tweener guys, and just straight up busted athletes. The Five year concept is that of how long a gm/coach usually takes to turn the roster into their own. Not the last guys. Or in our case the guy before him and the guy before him and the guys before them. Browns cannot even judge this FO and coach till year 3 that's a fact. But I'm sure the masses including the OP will be ready to move on after the bye week in 2016.
Chip kelly could gut it in a week.
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gee, how did i know Browns fans would start piping up about being in the AFC championship in a couple years. We'll be lucky to compete for the AFC north title in a couple years. What's sad about this is that yet again fans are getting their hopes up that some new super coach will come in and we'll be spanking the North around. And in a year or two when we're winning a couple games a year, guess who will be the ones calling for Jackson to be fired. Rinse repeat. This shit never ends. Jackson will need 4-5 years to make the Browns a slightly better than .500 team. I wish you all would for once just stfu and let an apparently good coach, go to fucking work. We can't do this bring in over priced FA's to "get us over the hump". We have to build young and from scratch. Period end of discussion. This will take years.
Frankly if they stick to that plan, i'm good with watching the Browns even if they lose. If i'm watching young talent being groomed into something, i'm good. If i'm watching us bring in dubiously rated high priced FA's to plug in here and there, presumably in some effort to put people in the stands...than i know it's same old same old. I want what CIncy has done. Even if they don't make the playoffs again with this group, there's a pedigree now. There's guys that can teach the next group. We don't have that, have never had that probably since the late 80's.
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VesnaKociper said:
. A team can easily go from 3 - 13 shit to a 10 - 6 wild card team in 1 year.
In cleveland? where it's hard enough to get players to want to come and ball because of the city, now add to that years and years of gross mismanagement and you have players like Bosa utterly dreading the though of being drafted here. I know there's teams that have had a short term reversal, but i'm not interested in that. I'm now only interested in long term foundational build up of a franchise that has been flushed down the shitter. You're crazy if you think any coach can take the Browns from what they are now to 10-6 next year. Utterly out of your mind.
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well, maybe if Jimmy decided to staff most of the starting positions with the best FA at that position. But that's exaclty what i'm talking about. Short term success at the expense of any long term buildup. No thanks.
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I think you might be right. How could the whole team be lousy? We need a QB, wide receivers, and the ability to run the ball on offense.
Stop the run on defense and rush the passer. Go Hue! I believe!
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Offense looks to be heading back to a Power run game...
OL is at best a semi-power run OL.
No Power TE is insight.
Barnidge our catching TE....but what about the other guys we have: Dray....Telfer?
We don't have a powerback.
The Crow can be pretty much a power back, no?
Our undersized WR Corps doesn't block.
But yeah, plenty of quick turn talent there to win shoot outs while we transition back to a 4-3...
h,
Clearly those that preceded my post have oversized expectations. The thread is built for oversized expectations.
As for the schedule... yes, swapping the NFCW for the NFCE is a promising deal, but excepting the Giants all had good D's and the Giants have an explosive O... erratic... but explosive. Then Dallas gets Romo back and the Eagles get a HC that uses his Offensive talent and they could get good fast.
Offense looks to be heading back to a Power run game...
OL is at best a semi-power run OL.
No Power TE is insight.
Barnidge our catching TE....but what about the other guys we have: Dray....Telfer?
We don't have a powerback.
The Crow can be pretty much a power back, no?
As TC pointed out, no, on Crow. However, I did forget about Glenn "Cough-it-up" Winston... and the fact we don't have a FB...
Dray was a decent blocker in 2014, but lost it in 2015. No idea on Tefler... or Bibbs...
This is the point where I love mentioning the fact to people that "worst to first" occurred in the NFL for 11 years in a row:
http://thebiglead.com/2013/08/14/nfl-worst-to-first-streak-at-10-years-who-will-it-be-in-2013/
It's cooled off the past couple of years, but the thought of a team not being a contender for 3-5 years is stupid too. You get the right players, coaches and a true franchise QB the tide turns quickly.
And this is where I love to follow your mention by mentioning that in nearly every case your Cinderella example was a rebound from a single abysmal year, not a one-year turnaround after years of struggle.
It was the abysmal year that was the anomaly.
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how would YOU know if pettine was a shit coach? i mean cleveland fans gave him as much of a chance as the last 20 guys they fired making the whole sports world look at us like we are idiots.
yeah couch was a bum too. mangini was not a 'player's coach'. funny thing is someone said pettine was too soft and liked the players too much.....wha wha what? sorry to tell you folks but the big label on hue jackson IS that he IS a player's coach. so if you suddenly think the discipline level is going to rocket you're flippin insane. he went 8 and 8 in his best season as a HC (how many years did he HC btw???) which is one win better than pettine's first year. the browns will never solve their coaching problem or their win and loss problem until the fucking owner realizes that the revolving door of coaches and GMs and ceos and blah blah fucking blah just doesn't work.
shit coach? you wouldn't know a shit coach if he slapped you across your face with his dick.
Clean Pettine's jizz out of your eyes, because you obviously didn't clearly see the shit show that was the 2015 Cleveland Browns. All you had to do was watch and see he is a shitty coach. 3-13 speaks volumes especially in year two. Does bolding your post make you feel special?
Clean Pettine's jizz out of your eyes, because you obviously didn't clearly see the shit show that was the 2015 Cleveland Browns. All you had to do was watch and see he is a shitty coach. 3-13 speaks volumes especially in year two. Does bolding your post make you feel special?
Yeah- Pettine is so great a coach- I'm thinking about betting Mik Pettine is going to draw zero interest around the league going back to a DC.
Hue is getting gushing reviews from every sports news outlet, and former players.
OTOH, when Haslam hired Mike? Crickets chirping- that should have been a warning sign right there.
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Clean Pettine's jizz out of your eyes, because you obviously didn't clearly see the shit show that was the 2015 Cleveland Browns. All you had to do was watch and see he is a shitty coach. 3-13 speaks volumes especially in year two. Does bolding your post make you feel special?
Yeah- Pettine is so great a coach- I'm thinking about betting Mik Pettine is going to draw zero interest around the league going back to a DC.
Hue is getting gushing reviews from every sports news outlet, and former players.
OTOH, when Haslam hired Mike? Crickets chirping- that should have been a warning sign right there.
Yeah- Pettine is so great a coach- I'm thinking about betting Mik Pettine is going to draw zero interest around the league going back to a DC.
Hue is getting gushing reviews from every sports news outlet, and former players.
OTOH, when Haslam hired Mike? Crickets chirping- that should have been a warning sign right there.
Oh pleez do. And I'll ask for a nice New Zealand Pinot Grigio while I eat a bushel of little neck clams on your dime. Just like I'll be getting a six from TCPO who's thought of manziel being the starting qb next year flew out the window 2 days ago.
And remember I said next year with Petrine so let's be clear. (2017).
For someone that loves this team you sure as heck don't see the major prob with this team to the championship teams. You really think Tomlin is a great coach? Or how about kubiak or garret? Hell no. Diff is the owner doesn't pull the rug out from any of them like the owners in Cleveland do.
I like monkey bay Pinot Grigio. LMK when palsy.
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Yeah- Pettine is so great a coach- I'm thinking about betting Mik Pettine is going to draw zero interest around the league going back to a DC.
Hue is getting gushing reviews from every sports news outlet, and former players.
OTOH, when Haslam hired Mike? Crickets chirping- that should have been a warning sign right there.
Oh pleez do. And I'll ask for a nice New Zealand Pinot Grigio while I eat a bushel of little neck clams on your dime. Just like I'll be getting a six from TCPO who's thought of manziel being the starting qb next year flew out the window 2 days ago.
And remember I said next year with Petrine so let's be clear. (2017).
For someone that loves this team you sure as heck don't see the major prob with this team to the championship teams. You really think Tomlin is a great coach? Or how about kubiak or garret? Hell no. Diff is the owner doesn't pull the rug out from any of them like the owners in Cleveland do.
I like monkey bay Pinot Grigio. LMK when palsy.
Oh pleez do. And I'll ask for a nice New Zealand Pinot Grigio while I eat a bushel of little neck clams on your dime. Just like I'll be getting a six from TCPO who's thought of manziel being the starting qb next year flew out the window 2 days ago.
And remember I said next year with Petrine so let's be clear.
For someone that loves this team you sure as heck don't see the major prob with this team to the championship teams. You really think Tomlin is a great coach? Or how about kubiak or garret? Hell no. Diff is the owner doesn't pull the rug out from any of them like the owners in Cleveland do.
I like monkey bay Pinot Grigio. LMK when palsy.
Mik, I said I'm thinking about it.
If you believe it was a lack of talent- that was part of the problem. Looking like a Chinese fire drill, bad clock management, and sticking to a system that wasn't working is on HIM. Mr. Defensive genius should have canned O Neil at the bye and taken over the D himself. Couldn't fire his buddy, and went down in flames. -
I shake my head.
This same conversation happens every flush and wipe for this team.
The fans here don't seem to want to admit that it takes time to build a team and with every flush and wipe we are back to square one in the building process. I shouldn't really be surprised. We live in an age of instant gratification.
We all screamed for the firings - which would indicate that we are willing to suffer through 2 years of building - but then (gasp!) immediately start talking about playoffs in year 1 of a completely overhauled FO, coaching staff and personnel.
5 years is way too conservative, though, but I don't expect playoffs for any team that flushes the whole system until year 3.
Worst to first won't happen for this team.
Haslam has always stated that he wants to build through the draft.
Worst to first would require spending enormous sums of money on free agents, which we aren't going to do.
Changing your entire FO and expecting them to all be in sync from day 1 is unrealistic.
Changing your coaching staff and possibly your offensive and defensive schemes doesn't magically happen in one season.
You can't coach a player to be faster, quicker, smarter, taller, etc. - at least not without pumping them full of illegal substances...
You CAN get the Strength and Conditioning coach to get these guys in the best shape of their lives, which would help - but won't win you 7-13 more games.
It just mystifies me every time we've gone through this that people talk of playoffs in year one.
The same people, then, call in or write in after the the first pre-season game loss that the coach should be fired and the team should be sold.
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This is the point where I love mentioning the fact to people that "worst to first" occurred in the NFL for 11 years in a row:
http://thebiglead.com/2013/08/14/nfl-worst-to-first-streak-at-10-years-who-will-it-be-in-2013/
It's cooled off the past couple of years, but the thought of a team not being a contender for 3-5 years is stupid too. You get the right players, coaches and a true franchise QB the tide turns quickly.
How many in the AFCN? How many with a first year GM?
How many in the AFCN? How many with a first year GM?
The Ravens were one, I'm not sure how that corresponded with Newsome arriving tbh. I think my post got a little side-tracked there so just to clarify; I'm not saying the Browns are a candidate to magically go worst to first. I wouldn't disagree that sometimes that's also a flash in the pan type of success either, but to say you need to expect terrible to mediocre football for years and years as "building" is off kilter to me.
5 years to build a championship level team perhaps, but the Panthers are a perfect example of what I'm talking about here. Start with a true franchise QB, get wins, get to the playoffs and keep building until you have a legit shot at the title. But those playoff non Super-Bowl years would still be the most exciting years of Browns football I've seen in my entire life.
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Yeah- Pettine is so great a coach- I'm thinking about betting Mik Pettine is going to draw zero interest around the league going back to a DC.
Hue is getting gushing reviews from every sports news outlet, and former players.
OTOH, when Haslam hired Mike? Crickets chirping- that should have been a warning sign right there.
Oh pleez do. And I'll ask for a nice New Zealand Pinot Grigio while I eat a bushel of little neck clams on your dime. Just like I'll be getting a six from TCPO who's thought of manziel being the starting qb next year flew out the window 2 days ago.
And remember I said next year with Petrine so let's be clear. (2017).
For someone that loves this team you sure as heck don't see the major prob with this team to the championship teams. You really think Tomlin is a great coach? Or how about kubiak or garret? Hell no. Diff is the owner doesn't pull the rug out from any of them like the owners in Cleveland do.
I like monkey bay Pinot Grigio. LMK when palsy.
Oh pleez do. And I'll ask for a nice New Zealand Pinot Grigio while I eat a bushel of little neck clams on your dime. Just like I'll be getting a six from TCPO who's thought of manziel being the starting qb next year flew out the window 2 days ago.
And remember I said next year with Petrine so let's be clear. (2017).
For someone that loves this team you sure as heck don't see the major prob with this team to the championship teams. You really think Tomlin is a great coach? Or how about kubiak or garret? Hell no. Diff is the owner doesn't pull the rug out from any of them like the owners in Cleveland do.
I like monkey bay Pinot Grigio. LMK when palsy.
you were running your mouth all year about how pettine would be back for 2016 season(not that he should which you also agreed with but that he would).....so sorry if I don't really look to you(or all the others in here who kept repeating pettine would be back for year 3) for any future predictions.
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