Camp Cook
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guess I've gotta break my own rule and argue with Gip.... Jesus.
its hilarious that you ask for multiple sources from people when your "source" was "there was a guy who said something once in the not so recent past, and I blindly agree without doing any independent player evaluation."
I've gotta respect your dogged, Skip Bayless style approach, but here's the thing, Gip. Your personal worth isn't directly tied to being 100% correct on your first take. You don't have to be Skip Bayless and make paper thin arguments and excuses which back up your initial claim. You're a human being, you are valuable, no one will think less of you for abandoning a shaky, out-dated, borderline re-tarded argument... Of course you never will. You will reply to this post and interject your snarky little responses in a contrasting color and continue to tell the world that Tim Tebow, Brandon Weeden and Johnny Manziel are destined for greatness and that Lebron James isn't Very good. Cheers.
guess I've gotta break my own rule and argue with Gip.... Jesus.
its hilarious that you ask for multiple sources from people when your "source" was "there was a guy who said something once in the not so recent past, and I blindly agree without doing any independent player evaluation."
My source was Bill Polian. My source was also other respected draft analyzers. Go back and look at all of my posts, they are named there.
My other source is my own eyes. I saw two games of Goff this year, Utah.....5 interceptions
The other was Stanford where he did a great David Klingler imitation.
I've gotta respect your dogged, Skip Bayless style approach, but here's the thing, Gip. Your personal worth isn't directly tied to being 100% correct on your first take. You don't have to be Skip Bayless and make paper thin arguments and excuses which back up your initial claim.
The exact same thing can be said about every word you say. There is NOTHING on this Earth that you can give that proves for certain that Goff etc. will turn out to be anything.
You're a human being, you are valuable, no one will think less of you for abandoning a shaky, out-dated, borderline re-tarded argument... Of course you never will. You will reply to this post and interject your snarky little responses in a contrasting color and continue to tell the world that Tim Tebow, Brandon Weeden and Johnny Manziel are destined for greatness and that Lebron James isn't Very good. Cheers.
Actually.....Goff is more likely to be destined to be Tebow/Weeden/Manziel than he is to be LeBron.
You can call that snark if you like. I call it an evaluation.
The problem, apparently is that you can't handle it when anyone disagrees with your opinions on player evaluation.
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So....if the Browns have the #2 pick....and Bosa and Buckner are both available....who would you take?
Myles Jack...
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Wasn't he hurt most of the year? ergo difficult to evaluate?
Yes...he missed his junior season with a torn meniscus(sp?)....which isnt really too serious when it comes to knee injuries....
What I really like is the way he dealt with it....he actually quit school so he could work all day - every day on the rehab and was/is totally committed to football....word is that he will be ready to participate in the combine....
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I think there will be lots of information on these guys. But, again, here is my basic point: you can get a good QB in rounds 2 and 3.....in some years the better QBs came out of those rounds:
2012...Wilson, Foles, Cousins......better than all others except Luck
2011....Dalton, Kaepernick....but than others except Cam.
There is no Luck/Newton in this draft.
But there could be a Kosar.
Gipper read a fortune cookie Last 4th of July that said there would be no first round QBs this year. He then decided that since QB isn't a very important position that the Browns might as well take the 5th QB prospect on the board. if there's anything that every QB the Browns drafted after Couch has taught us it's that the bargain bin is the best place to find a franchise signal caller.
Yup, since Frye and McCoy worked out so well
Again, yes they will be drafted in the first round.....or should I say overdrafted.
All I am saying is that with our #2 pick.....we would be reaching mightily to take a QB there. If we had the #10-15 pick, it may not be so bad.
But we need #2 talent with our #2 pick.
We don't need the QB equivalent of Trent Richardson.
So you're already calling Goff, Wentz and Lynch busts.
I'm looking at the rankings on NFL.com that clearly have DeForest Buckner rated as a better DE prospect than Bosa. Further, Bosa is far from the #1 overall prospect - he's more like the 7th. I happen to trust the NFL official board moreso than the CBS - considering as these guys are getting drafted to play in the NFL and not CBS.
I may be an OSU homer, but I'm not in love with Bosa. Let me refresh Gips memory about another OSU DL that had the "can't miss superstar" tag. Big Daddy Dan Wilkinson.
Myles Jack...
Yup, rated higher than Bosa- and at a position of dire need.
But there could be a Kosar.
Hopefully, yes.....but recall, Kosar was considered a sure thing when he came out of college. While he wasn't considered as highly rated as Elway, he wasn't far behind.
Yup, since Frye and McCoy worked out so well
A failed 3rd round QB is not as bad as a failed #2 overall QB
So you're already calling Goff, Wentz and Lynch busts.
No....my point is that I don't know. Unlike others here who are so goddamn sure that these guys are the second coming of Elway/Brady/Manning...I am not so sure. I simply believe there is more quality talent elsewhere besides QB in this draft that we should use our #2 on.
I may be an OSU homer, but I'm not in love with Bosa. Let me refresh Gips memory about another OSU DL that had the "can't miss superstar" tag. Big Daddy Dan Wilkinson.
So, because one Ohio St. DL busted out 25 years ago, it means that Bosa will automatically follow? I guess that is the reason everyone is behind Goff? "Gee, Aaron Rodgers is from Cal...and Goff is going to be just like him...just as good as him" I don't buy either argument.
Yup, rated higher than Bosa- and at a position of dire need.
No....No one is rated higher than Bosa......with the majority of draft services.
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Bailing on the Combine? WTF?
Jack will roll in the 4.5's. I think he will kill in the 3-cone and shuttle drills.
His size is an issue. I can still find weights anywhere from 230 to 245 for him. So I am eager to see what shows at the Combine.
In any case I don't see a 3-4 OLB. I think he might pull off a 4-3, new breed OLB.
I think we'll see a lot more of the 'mobile' 3-4 OLB with great speed and weight around 240-250, who can rush the passer and cover the 'freak' college basketball playing tight ends that are 6'7", also run a 4.5 and weigh 250lbs. Think Mingo, only, you know, good.
I think we'll see a lot more of the 'mobile' 3-4 OLB with great speed and weight around 240-250, who can rush the passer and cover the 'freak' college basketball playing tight ends that are 6'7", also run a 4.5 and weigh 250lbs. Think Mingo, only, you know, good.
Actually, I still think Mingo could be good. I am hopeful that he will blossom under this new/old DC we have. Completely misutilized by O'Neil in my opinion.
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I think we'll see a lot more of the 'mobile' 3-4 OLB with great speed and weight around 240-250, who can rush the passer and cover the 'freak' college basketball playing tight ends that are 6'7", also run a 4.5 and weigh 250lbs. Think Mingo, only, you know, good.
Actually, I still think Mingo could be good. I am hopeful that he will blossom under this new/old DC we have. Completely misutilized by O'Neil in my opinion.
Actually, I still think Mingo could be good. I am hopeful that he will blossom under this new/old DC we have. Completely misutilized by O'Neil in my opinion.
Well, Ray Horton was the DC when Mingo was drafted, so, there's that. But I don't see it. Hope to be proven wrong.
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I think we'll see a lot more of the 'mobile' 3-4 OLB with great speed and weight around 240-250, who can rush the passer and cover the 'freak' college basketball playing tight ends that are 6'7", also run a 4.5 and weigh 250lbs. Think Mingo, only, you know, good.
Actually, I still think Mingo could be good. I am hopeful that he will blossom under this new/old DC we have. Completely misutilized by O'Neil in my opinion.
Actually, I still think Mingo could be good. I am hopeful that he will blossom under this new/old DC we have. Completely misutilized by O'Neil in my opinion.
They misused Mingo too????.....He was the primary cover backer and seemed to excel at it....and everyone screamed and lost their minds when Kruger was asked to cover....so if not Kruger or Mingo, then who????
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Actually, I still think Mingo could be good. I am hopeful that he will blossom under this new/old DC we have. Completely misutilized by O'Neil in my opinion.
They misused Mingo too????.....He was the primary cover backer and seemed to excel at it....and everyone screamed and lost their minds when Kruger was asked to cover....so if not Kruger or Mingo, then who????
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Full on Blitz....all day every day on each every play.....Yay!!!....(thats a rhyne, by the way)
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Full on Blitz....all day every day on each every play.....Yay!!!....(thats a rhyne, by the way)
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Full on Blitz....all day every day on each every play.....Yay!!!....(thats a rhyne, by the way)
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Justin Cook 2017
Justin Cook 2017
Maybe you have something there. Maybe the Browns future QB isn't in this draft, but the next one?
Look at these names, top rated QBs for 2017 by CBS.
Chad Kelly QB 1 Ole Miss Jr 6-2 215
C.J. Beathard QB 2 Iowa rJr 6-2 209
Joshua Dobbs QB 3 Tennessee Jr 6-3 212
Seth Russell
QB 4 Baylor rJr 6-2 220Mitch Leidner QB 5 Minnesota rJr 6-4 236
Jeremy Johnson QB 6 Auburn Jr 6-5 240
Gunner Kiel QB 7 Cincinnati rJr 6-4 208
Nick Mullens QB 8 Southern Mississippi Jr 6-1 196
Baker Mayfield QB 9 Oklahoma rJr 6-0 209
Brady Gustafson QB 10 Montana rJr 6-6 235
Anything there to potentially be interested in for the future?
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Justin Cook 2017
Maybe you have something there. Maybe the Browns future QB isn't in this draft, but the next one?
Look at these names, top rated QBs for 2017 by CBS.
Chad Kelly QB 1 Ole Miss Jr 6-2 215
C.J. Beathard QB 2 Iowa rJr 6-2 209
Joshua Dobbs QB 3 Tennessee Jr 6-3 212
Seth Russell
QB 4 Baylor rJr 6-2 220Mitch Leidner QB 5 Minnesota rJr 6-4 236
Jeremy Johnson QB 6 Auburn Jr 6-5 240
Gunner Kiel QB 7 Cincinnati rJr 6-4 208
Nick Mullens QB 8 Southern Mississippi Jr 6-1 196
Baker Mayfield QB 9 Oklahoma rJr 6-0 209
Brady Gustafson QB 10 Montana rJr 6-6 235
Anything there to potentially be interested in for the future?
Maybe you have something there. Maybe the Browns future QB isn't in this draft, but the next one?
Look at these names:
had Kelly QB 1 Ole Miss Jr 6-2 215 C.J. Beathard QB 2 Iowa rJr 6-2 209 Joshua Dobbs QB 3 Tennessee Jr 6-3 212 Seth Russell QB 4 Baylor rJr 6-2 220 Mitch Leidner QB 5 Minnesota rJr 6-4 236 Jeremy Johnson QB 6 Auburn Jr 6-5 240 Gunner Kiel QB 7 Cincinnati rJr 6-4 208 Nick Mullens QB 8 Southern Mississippi Jr 6-1 196 Baker Mayfield QB 9 Oklahoma rJr 6-0 209 Brady Gustafson QB 10 Montana rJr 6-6 235
Our next QB is always in the next draft.
FWIW, I'd take deshaun watson in 2017, at this point.
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Actually, I still think Mingo could be good. I am hopeful that he will blossom under this new/old DC we have. Completely misutilized by O'Neil in my opinion.
They misused Mingo too????.....He was the primary cover backer and seemed to excel at it....and everyone screamed and lost their minds when Kruger was asked to cover....so if not Kruger or Mingo, then who????
They misused Mingo too????.....He was the primary cover backer and seemed to excel at it....and everyone screamed and lost their minds when Kruger was asked to cover....so if not Kruger or Mingo, then who????
To me, that is what inside LBs are for. Mingo needs to be sic'd on the QB imo.
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Maybe you have something there. Maybe the Browns future QB isn't in this draft, but the next one?
Look at these names:
had Kelly QB 1 Ole Miss Jr 6-2 215 C.J. Beathard QB 2 Iowa rJr 6-2 209 Joshua Dobbs QB 3 Tennessee Jr 6-3 212 Seth Russell QB 4 Baylor rJr 6-2 220 Mitch Leidner QB 5 Minnesota rJr 6-4 236 Jeremy Johnson QB 6 Auburn Jr 6-5 240 Gunner Kiel QB 7 Cincinnati rJr 6-4 208 Nick Mullens QB 8 Southern Mississippi Jr 6-1 196 Baker Mayfield QB 9 Oklahoma rJr 6-0 209 Brady Gustafson QB 10 Montana rJr 6-6 235
Our next QB is always in the next draft.
FWIW, I'd take deshaun watson in 2017, at this point.
Our next QB is always in the next draft.
(that is because there are none in this draft worth it...unless we get them at a lower pick)
And actually...I did a list on it....nearly 1/2 of the Super Bowl winning QBs were not with the team that drafted them....including the guy that won Sunday.
FWIW, I'd take deshaun watson in 2017, at this point.
Yea, not sure why he didn't make this list.
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Our next QB is always in the next draft.
(that is because there are none in this draft worth it...unless we get them at a lower pick)
And actually...I did a list on it....nearly 1/2 of the Super Bowl winning QBs were not with the team that drafted them....including the guy that won Sunday.
FWIW, I'd take deshaun watson in 2017, at this point.
Yea, not sure why he didn't make this list.
(that is because there are none in this draft worth it...unless we get them at a lower pick)
It was a sarcastic remark about how every year we should wait until next year because there are some great QBs coming out.
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If there is a glorious glamorous sure-fire once-in-a-decade QB prospect in next year's draft, then I'm not sure why anybody would think we can get him - assuming we won't be picking #1 overall next year.
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They misused Mingo too????.....He was the primary cover backer and seemed to excel at it....and everyone screamed and lost their minds when Kruger was asked to cover....so if not Kruger or Mingo, then who????
To me, that is what inside LBs are for. Mingo needs to be sic'd on the QB imo.
To me, that is what inside LBs are for. Mingo needs to be sic'd on the QB imo.
eh....he'd just bounce off the QB anyway.....olb's cover a lot.....esp the great ones who are 3 tool players.....I guess if all your LB's can only rush, then you have very limited LB's(which we do).....and if they both rush every play, then you have an extremely limited defensive scheme, because the other team knows whats coming everytime....also makes for extra easy mismatches and blocking schemes for the opponent....
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If there is a glorious glamorous sure-fire once-in-a-decade QB prospect in next year's draft, then I'm not sure why anybody would think we can get him - assuming we won't be picking #1 overall next year.
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(that is because there are none in this draft worth it...unless we get them at a lower pick)
It was a sarcastic remark about how every year we should wait until next year because there are some great QBs coming out.
It was a sarcastic remark about how every year we should wait until next year because there are some great QBs coming out.
And that is why I am saying that the draft may not be the place to get a QB.
Here is a bit of history for you regarding Browns QBs that led them to playoffs:
The Browns did not get Otto Graham in the draft. He was the Lions pick in 1944. He decided to join the Browns as a FA.
The Browns did not get Tommy O'Connell in the draft. He was a Bears pick. Not sure if Browns got him in trade or what.
The Browns did not get Frank Ryan in the draft. Our QB in the 1964 Championship team. They traded with the Rams for him.
The Browns did not get Bill Nelsen in the draft. They traded with the Steelers to get him, believe it or not. Took Browns to several playoff appearances.
Technically the Browns did not get Bernie Kosar in the draft. He was taken in the Supplemental draft after a trade with Buffalo.
The Browns did not get Vinny Testaverde in the draft. I think he was a free agent.
The Browns did not get Kelly Holcomb in the draft. I think he also was a FA.
The only Browns QBs that were drafted by them that took them to the playoffs were:
Milt Plum.....one year in playoffs.....ejected in favor of Ryan.
Mike Phipps...one year in playoffs....ejected in favor of Sipe
Brian Sipe....thirteenth round pick.....would be UDFA today....only one year in playoffs.
Tim Couch? You can say he led the Browns to the playoffs as he was primary QB the year they went...though he could not play in the postseason game due to injury.
Bottom line: in their history the Browns have not relied on drafted QBs who became their best QBs.
So, they CAN look elsewhere in trade or FA and be successful. They always have.
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