Camp Cook
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Yeah...I know....
And I certainly dont think Bosa sucks....at all......just feeling like there are other equally great players who are more suitable for the Browns and would be more of an upgrade at their respective positions.......
And if there is one position this draft is LOADED at....its DL.....
And, well, as of new results apparently, DL may be the Brown primeultimate need.
And, well, as of new results apparently, DL may be the Brown primeultimate need.
Bryant's a linebacker.....Bosa isnt....
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And, well, as of new results apparently, DL may be the Brown primeultimate need.
Bryant's a linebacker.....Bosa isnt....
Bryant's a linebacker.....Bosa isnt....
Still need to replace that pressure on the QB.....be it come from a DE or OLB.
Unless you think Orchard, Mingo and Kruger and Scott Solomon are sufficient.
And are you OK to stand pat with our DEs of Starks, Dez Bryant, X Cooper, and the Sausage King?
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So if Polian says it, it must be true.
No, but he has a pretty good track record on these things.
Plenty of folks that know as much about players as Polian think he's full of crap.
You mean like the two or three different NFL organizations that he lead to like 6-7 Super Bowl appearances?
I'll call that a limited sample size of expertise. LOL, some draft gurus saw Manziel as a third round talent- but the Browns didn't.
I would love to have the limited expertise of a guy that had 6 or so of his teams go to the Super Bowl.
We've been down this road already- if there's a sure fire next Andrew Luck or Elway in the next draft, the Browns would have to be drafting #1 overall to get him. A first round pick is a first round pick- be it #2, or #20. The results of blowing it are about the same. Whether Trent Richardson @ #3, or Taylor, Quinn, Weeden in the 20s. The Browns have gone bargain hunting for quarterbacks since 1999 with Couch. It's time to take the best one available, and cross our fingers.
Cook is no bargain @ #32 if he plays like Charlie Frye or Colt McCoy. .
Sure....again, I just bring up his name for the sake of argument. (but my argument is that with the #2 pick...why overdraft for bargain basement talent....which is what I see out there at the position...again, I am not totally relying on others. I saw a couple of games of Goffs, where he was either terrible...threw 5 int's or was just OK.
So if Polian says it, it must be true.
No, but he has a pretty good track record on these things.
Plenty of folks that know as much about players as Polian think he's full of crap.
You mean like the two or three different NFL organizations that he lead to like 6-7 Super Bowl appearances?
I'll call that a limited sample size of expertise. LOL, some draft gurus saw Manziel as a third round talent- but the Browns didn't.
I would love to have the limited expertise of a guy that had 6 or so of his teams go to the Super Bowl.
see below....
We've been down this road already- if there's a sure fire next Andrew Luck or Elway in the next draft, the Browns would have to be drafting #1 overall to get him. A first round pick is a first round pick- be it #2, or #20. The results of blowing it are about the same. Whether Trent Richardson @ #3, or Taylor, Quinn, Weeden in the 20s. The Browns have gone bargain hunting for quarterbacks since 1999 with Couch. It's time to take the best one available, and cross our fingers.
Cook is no bargain @ #32 if he plays like Charlie Frye or Colt McCoy. .
Sure....again, I just bring up his name for the sake of argument. (but my argument is that with the #2 pick...why overdraft for bargain basement talent....which is what I see out there at the position...again, I am not totally relying on others. I saw a couple of games of Goffs, where he was either terrible...threw 5 int's or was just OK.
Regarding Polian- his genius was having the first pick for the Colts in the 1998 draft hello, Peyton Manning, and in 1985 as GM of the Bills when Bruce Smith was there. He also was lucky enough the Bills had wisely retained the rights to Jim Kelly- that was before he got there. DUH!
Now if you want to posit Joey Bosa is going to be as good as Bruce Smith, I'm all aboard the Bosa train.
Goff, Wentz, and Lynch are far from bargain basement talent. They're all going to go in the first round. So you want to tell me what's the difference if we would draft one of them @ #20 or #2? If you're not 100% sold on any one of them, you don't draft them. One could even posit if Wentz had played for a Big 10 or SEC school, he'd be the consensus #1 overall. Bargain basement talent is Cook, Hackenberg, or dare I say it- Cardale Jones. For my money, if the Browns are going to go bargain hunting (AGAIN!) give me Cardale- he has the best physical tools, and the most upside. A poor man's Cam Newton.
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Football is just blocking and tackling. That's all there is to it. Didn't you know that?
Yeah...I know....
And I certainly dont think Bosa sucks....at all......just feeling like there are other equally great players who are more suitable for the Browns and would be more of an upgrade at their respective positions.......
And if there is one position this draft is LOADED at....its DL.....
Yeah...I know....
And I certainly dont think Bosa sucks....at all......just feeling like there are other equally great players who are more suitable for the Browns and would be more of an upgrade at their respective positions.......
And if there is one position this draft is LOADED at....its DL.....
I was being facetious. I'm in the same boat with you.
I think we'd get a better return on taking the best QB available at #2 and then taking a either a true 3-4 DE or true 3-4 OLB at #32.
But hell, why not go all in and take Myles Jack at #2, then trade up for Jaylon Smith around 20ish, then take Carl Nassib in the third. All of which are better fits for the 3-4 than Joey Bosa. (And yes, I think Myles Jack, who is 40 lbs lighter and widely thought of as a 4-3 OLBer, is still a better 3-4 OLB than Bosa).
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Yeah...I know....
And I certainly dont think Bosa sucks....at all......just feeling like there are other equally great players who are more suitable for the Browns and would be more of an upgrade at their respective positions.......
And if there is one position this draft is LOADED at....its DL.....
I was being facetious. I'm in the same boat with you.
I think we'd get a better return on taking the best QB available at #2 and then taking a either a true 3-4 DE or true 3-4 OLB at #32.
But hell, why not go all in and take Myles Jack at #2, then trade up for Jaylon Smith around 20ish, then take Carl Nassib in the third. All of which are better fits for the 3-4 than Joey Bosa. (And yes, I think Myles Jack, who is 40 lbs lighter and widely thought of as a 4-3 OLBer, is still a better 3-4 OLB than Bosa).
I was being facetious. I'm in the same boat with you.
I think we'd get a better return on taking the best QB available at #2 and then taking a either a true 3-4 DE or true 3-4 OLB at #32.
But hell, why not go all in and take Myles Jack at #2, then trade up for Jaylon Smith around 20ish, then take Carl Nassib in the third. All of which are better fits for the 3-4 than Joey Bosa. (And yes, I think Myles Jack, who is 40 lbs lighter and widely thought of as a 4-3 OLBer, is still a better 3-4 OLB than Bosa).
And I think Sheldon Rankings is a better 3-4 DE prospect than Bosa... I'm not a Nassib guy at all.
Point is, as you know, schemes matter. Bosa would be an upgrade over Kruger in Krug's historic role, but as we talked last season, with Krugs in the line-up we were a 3-4 in name only. Make it official... swap to a 4-3... give Bosa a home. But he is miscast as a 3-4 OLB...
But I still go Goff at #2...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I was being facetious. I'm in the same boat with you.
I think we'd get a better return on taking the best QB available at #2 and then taking a either a true 3-4 DE or true 3-4 OLB at #32.
But hell, why not go all in and take Myles Jack at #2, then trade up for Jaylon Smith around 20ish, then take Carl Nassib in the third. All of which are better fits for the 3-4 than Joey Bosa. (And yes, I think Myles Jack, who is 40 lbs lighter and widely thought of as a 4-3 OLBer, is still a better 3-4 OLB than Bosa).
And I think Sheldon Rankings is a better 3-4 DE prospect than Bosa... I'm not a Nassib guy at all.
Point is, as you know, schemes matter. Bosa would be an upgrade over Kruger in Krug's historic role, but as we talked last season, with Krugs in the line-up we were a 3-4 in name only. Make it official... swap to a 4-3... give Bosa a home. But he is miscast as a 3-4 OLB...
But I still go Goff at #2...
And I think Sheldon Rankings is a better 3-4 DE prospect than Bosa... I'm not a Nassib guy at all.
Point is, as you know, schemes matter. Bosa would be an upgrade over Kruger in Krug's historic role, but as we talked last season, with Krugs in the line-up we were a 3-4 in name only. Make it official... swap to a 4-3... give Bosa a home. But he is miscast as a 3-4 OLB...
But I still go Goff at #2...
I'm a Nassib potential guy. He checks every box in terms of off-field intangibles, and I really like that he added basically 75 pounds to his frame so that he could play DE. He's a guy that I think could come in and compete immediately and blossom into an above average professional player for an extended period of time. To me, he just seems like one of those draft finds that teams like the Patriots or Steelers of late would grab.
I'd still go Goff or Wentz at #2 as well.
The thought of getting Jaylon Smith is intriguing to me if the price is right.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
So if Polian says it, it must be true.
No, but he has a pretty good track record on these things.
Plenty of folks that know as much about players as Polian think he's full of crap.
You mean like the two or three different NFL organizations that he lead to like 6-7 Super Bowl appearances?
I'll call that a limited sample size of expertise. LOL, some draft gurus saw Manziel as a third round talent- but the Browns didn't.
I would love to have the limited expertise of a guy that had 6 or so of his teams go to the Super Bowl.
see below....
We've been down this road already- if there's a sure fire next Andrew Luck or Elway in the next draft, the Browns would have to be drafting #1 overall to get him. A first round pick is a first round pick- be it #2, or #20. The results of blowing it are about the same. Whether Trent Richardson @ #3, or Taylor, Quinn, Weeden in the 20s. The Browns have gone bargain hunting for quarterbacks since 1999 with Couch. It's time to take the best one available, and cross our fingers.
Cook is no bargain @ #32 if he plays like Charlie Frye or Colt McCoy. .
Sure....again, I just bring up his name for the sake of argument. (but my argument is that with the #2 pick...why overdraft for bargain basement talent....which is what I see out there at the position...again, I am not totally relying on others. I saw a couple of games of Goffs, where he was either terrible...threw 5 int's or was just OK.
Regarding Polian- his genius was having the first pick for the Colts in the 1998 draft hello, Peyton Manning, and in 1985 as GM of the Bills when Bruce Smith was there. He also was lucky enough the Bills had wisely retained the rights to Jim Kelly- that was before he got there. DUH!
Now if you want to posit Joey Bosa is going to be as good as Bruce Smith, I'm all aboard the Bosa train.
Goff, Wentz, and Lynch are far from bargain basement talent. They're all going to go in the first round. So you want to tell me what's the difference if we would draft one of them @ #20 or #2? If you're not 100% sold on any one of them, you don't draft them. One could even posit if Wentz had played for a Big 10 or SEC school, he'd be the consensus #1 overall. Bargain basement talent is Cook, Hackenberg, or dare I say it- Cardale Jones. For my money, if the Browns are going to go bargain hunting (AGAIN!) give me Cardale- he has the best physical tools, and the most upside. A poor man's Cam Newton.
Regarding Polian- his genius was having the first pick for the Colts in the 1998 draft hello, Peyton Manning, and in 1985 as GM of the Bills when Bruce Smith was there. He also was lucky enough the Bills had wisely retained the rights to Jim Kelly- that was before he got there. DUH!
Now if you want to posit Joey Bosa is going to be as good as Bruce Smith, I'm all aboard the Bosa train.
Yes, some say he may be in that vain....though more compare him to Watt....because he plays all those positions....and yes....can cover if need be.
Goff, Wentz, and Lynch are far from bargain basement talent. They're all going to go in the first round. So you want to tell me what's the difference if we would draft one of them @ #20 or #2? If you're not 100% sold on any one of them, you don't draft them.
Again, follow the bouncing ball: you take the BPA. I am NOT willing to pass on Bosa for any of those guys.....but if he is not there...and they are there at #20...if we had that pick....then that might be alright.
I don't want to pass up generational talent perhaps for good talent that you can probably get anytime talent. They may be the BPA at #20....but not at #2.
One could even posit if Wentz had played for a Big 10 or SEC school, he'd be the consensus #1 overall. Bargain basement talent is Cook, Hackenberg, or dare I say it- Cardale Jones. For my money, if the Browns are going to go bargain hunting (AGAIN!) give me Cardale- he has the best physical tools, and the most upside. A poor man's Cam Newton.
The thing is....I am not of the opinion that Goff/Lynch/Wentz are all that much better than the Cardale's.
I mean, we could have had Russell Wilson instead of Brandon Weeden. I don't want to take Ryan Leaf and leave Charles Woodson or Randy Moss sitting there. I don't want to take Braylon Edwards when we could have had Aaron Rodgers. etc.
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Yeah...I know....
And I certainly dont think Bosa sucks....at all......just feeling like there are other equally great players who are more suitable for the Browns and would be more of an upgrade at their respective positions.......
And if there is one position this draft is LOADED at....its DL.....
I was being facetious. I'm in the same boat with you.
I think we'd get a better return on taking the best QB available at #2 and then taking a either a true 3-4 DE or true 3-4 OLB at #32.
But hell, why not go all in and take Myles Jack at #2, then trade up for Jaylon Smith around 20ish, then take Carl Nassib in the third. All of which are better fits for the 3-4 than Joey Bosa. (And yes, I think Myles Jack, who is 40 lbs lighter and widely thought of as a 4-3 OLBer, is still a better 3-4 OLB than Bosa).
I was being facetious. I'm in the same boat with you.
I think we'd get a better return on taking the best QB available at #2 and then taking a either a true 3-4 DE or true 3-4 OLB at #32.
But hell, why not go all in and take Myles Jack at #2, then trade up for Jaylon Smith around 20ish, then take Carl Nassib in the third. All of which are better fits for the 3-4 than Joey Bosa. (And yes, I think Myles Jack, who is 40 lbs lighter and widely thought of as a 4-3 OLBer, is still a better 3-4 OLB than Bosa).
Like I said, you are so much smarter than everyone else 9 out of 10 of whom have Bosa as the best player in this draft..the best talent in this draft..
But because you think someone else may fit some scheme you think you know all about, they are the better pick.
Lets take a mediocre QB....yes, I think they all may be mediocre....or at least not #2 worthy.
And when in fucking hell are you going to get it through your head that Bosa is not going to be a linebacker.
Just because he is big, fast, strong, powerful and we need that at OLB? Bosa is a DE....yet you want to convert him?
Why are you stuck on stupid.
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I think the best news I've heard all day is that Gipper is not in charge of picking for the Cleveland Browns.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Bryant's a linebacker.....Bosa isnt....
Still need to replace that pressure on the QB.....be it come from a DE or OLB.
Unless you think Orchard, Mingo and Kruger and Scott Solomon are sufficient.
And are you OK to stand pat with our DEs of Starks, Dez Bryant, X Cooper, and the Sausage King?
Still need to replace that pressure on the QB.....be it come from a DE or OLB.
Unless you think Orchard, Mingo and Kruger and Scott Solomon are sufficient.
And are you OK to stand pat with our DEs of Starks, Dez Bryant, X Cooper, and the Sausage King?
Well I dont think our OLBs are anywhere near sufficient and would be much happier standing pat at DL than I would at LB....honestly dont even feel our OLB's are NFL starter quality, let alone "good"....except Orchard who looks like he could develop into a good one....
I think most sacks(a high percentage) come from linebackers and edge rushers....and DL, especially in a 3-4, is used more to occupy blockers and push the pockets....while the LB's make the plays....
And I do understand what you're saying...which is, if Bosa is the best rated defender and we need defenders, then he's the player we should pick....I just disagree that he's a good fit or that he's "that" much better than the next guy....how big of a difference can there be between players ranked one or 2 spots apart...not much....
But, at this point, it's clear well never agree....so Ill go my way and pray for LB's and you go your way and pray for a DE....
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I was being facetious. I'm in the same boat with you.
I think we'd get a better return on taking the best QB available at #2 and then taking a either a true 3-4 DE or true 3-4 OLB at #32.
But hell, why not go all in and take Myles Jack at #2, then trade up for Jaylon Smith around 20ish, then take Carl Nassib in the third. All of which are better fits for the 3-4 than Joey Bosa. (And yes, I think Myles Jack, who is 40 lbs lighter and widely thought of as a 4-3 OLBer, is still a better 3-4 OLB than Bosa).
And I think Sheldon Rankings is a better 3-4 DE prospect than Bosa... I'm not a Nassib guy at all.
Point is, as you know, schemes matter. Bosa would be an upgrade over Kruger in Krug's historic role, but as we talked last season, with Krugs in the line-up we were a 3-4 in name only. Make it official... swap to a 4-3... give Bosa a home. But he is miscast as a 3-4 OLB...
But I still go Goff at #2...
And I think Sheldon Rankings is a better 3-4 DE prospect than Bosa... I'm not a Nassib guy at all.
Yea, sure....and the Dave Clark 5 was a better band than the Beatles.
Point is, as you know, schemes matter. Bosa would be an upgrade over Kruger in Krug's historic role, but as we talked last season, with Krugs in the line-up we were a 3-4 in name only. Make it official... swap to a 4-3... give Bosa a home. But he is miscast as a 3-4 OLB...
At least now you got something right. What dumbass would ever think of putting Bosa as an OLB? He is a DE....3-4, 4-3, it don't matter.
But I still go Goff at #2...
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I think the best news I've heard all day is that Gipper is not in charge of picking for the Cleveland Browns.
I think the best news I've heard all day is that Gipper is not in charge of picking for the Cleveland Browns.
The better news is that you are not in charge. You would bypass superior talent for something more mediocre that fit whatever scheme you thought you would want to run.
You take the talent....and you fit your scheme to the talent. Not the other way around.
You don't play the read option with Tom Brady.....but you apparently would want to make him play it because that is what you wanted.
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I think the best news I've heard all day is that Gipper is not in charge of picking for the Cleveland Browns.
The better news is that you are not in charge. You would bypass superior talent for something more mediocre that fit whatever scheme you thought you would want to run.
You take the talent....and you fit your scheme to the talent. Not the other way around.
You don't play the read option with Tom Brady.....but you apparently would want to make him play it because that is what you wanted.
The better news is that you are not in charge. You would bypass superior talent for something more mediocre that fit whatever scheme you thought you would want to run.
You take the talent....and you fit your scheme to the talent. Not the other way around.
You don't play the read option with Tom Brady.....but you apparently would want to make him play it because that is what you wanted.
It surprises me that you know what a read option is. After all, it's not covered under "blocking" or "tackling" sections of Watching Football For Dummies.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Still need to replace that pressure on the QB.....be it come from a DE or OLB.
Unless you think Orchard, Mingo and Kruger and Scott Solomon are sufficient.
And are you OK to stand pat with our DEs of Starks, Dez Bryant, X Cooper, and the Sausage King?
Well I dont think our OLBs are anywhere near sufficient and would be much happier standing pat at DL than I would at LB....honestly dont even feel our OLB's are NFL starter quality, let alone "good"....except Orchard who looks like he could develop into a good one....
I think most sacks(a high percentage) come from linebackers and edge rushers....and DL, especially in a 3-4, is used more to occupy blockers and push the pockets....while the LB's make the plays....
And I do understand what you're saying...which is, if Bosa is the best rated defender and we need defenders, then he's the player we should pick....I just disagree that he's a good fit or that he's "that" much better than the next guy....how big of a difference can there be between players ranked one or 2 spots apart...not much....
But, at this point, it's clear well never agree....so Ill go my way and pray for LB's and you go your way and pray for a DE....
Well I dont think our OLBs are anywhere near sufficient and would be much happier standing pat at DL than I would at LB....honestly dont even feel our OLB's are NFL starter quality, let alone "good"....except Orchard who looks like he could develop into a good one....
Well, fair enough. But when it comes to drafting....I still want the best player available. If we are killer at DE...it may help make up for the lack of talent at OLB a bit.
I think most sacks(a high percentage) come from linebackers and edge rushers....and DL, especially in a 3-4, is used more to occupy blockers and push the pockets....while the LB's make the plays....
And I do understand what you're saying...which is, if Bosa is the best rated defender and we need defenders, then he's the player we should pick....I just disagree that he's a good fit or that he's "that" much better than the next guy....how big of a difference can there be between players ranked one or 2 spots apart...not much....
Well, you see, this is the thing about rankings. You have a guy rated #1....and obviously you have a guy rated #2 and #3. But, again, just because someone is ranked #2 does not necessarily mean he is practically as good as the #1 guy. An absurd example?: Peyton Manning was rated #1 the year he was taken....and Ryan Leaf was #2. So, that must mean that Leaf was almost just as good as Peyton, right? No.
If you have generational talent....which Bosa may be.....you don't settle for #2....unless you have no choice (i.e. if the Tits are smart and do take him #1)
But, at this point, it's clear well never agree....so Ill go my way and pray for LB's and you go your way and pray for a DE....
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The better news is that you are not in charge. You would bypass superior talent for something more mediocre that fit whatever scheme you thought you would want to run.
You take the talent....and you fit your scheme to the talent. Not the other way around.
You don't play the read option with Tom Brady.....but you apparently would want to make him play it because that is what you wanted.
It surprises me that you know what a read option is. After all, it's not covered under "blocking" or "tackling" sections of Watching Football For Dummies.
It surprises me that you know what a read option is. After all, it's not covered under "blocking" or "tackling" sections of Watching Football For Dummies.
I know what a dickhead is. With a mirror you will get to observe one as well.
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It surprises me that you know what a read option is. After all, it's not covered under "blocking" or "tackling" sections of Watching Football For Dummies.
I know what a dickhead is. With a mirror you will get to observe one as well.
I know what a dickhead is. With a mirror you will get to observe one as well.
Is it something you haven't seen in 40 years?
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I know what a dickhead is. With a mirror you will get to observe one as well.
Is it something you haven't seen in 40 years?
Is it something you haven't seen in 40 years?
I suspect, even at my age, that mine gets more of a workout than yours.
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Is it something you haven't seen in 40 years?
I suspect, even at my age, that mine gets more of a workout than yours.
I suspect, even at my age, that mine gets more of a workout than yours.
Single "handedly" keeping the lotion business afloat.
Congrats, Gip.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I keep seeing BPA being tossed out there.
To me, that's impossible to determine when dealing with such vastly different roles.
I prefer BPI: Biggest Positive Impact
Maybe an offensive lineman is the top player in the draft. But would an O-Line guy have a bigger positive impact on the Browns than a good QB or a star edge rusher?
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