Did Our Analytics FO Pay Attention?
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Three D starters went down in the playoffs that year including Von. Crystal ball must have told him they still wouldn't have won even with those guys.
Three D starters went down in the playoffs that year including Von. Crystal ball must have told him they still wouldn't have won even with those guys.
The way the Denver Offense shriveled up and died 3 SB's ago, I have trouble accepting that Elway came away saying, "Man, I have to fix our Defense."
I think this team has outstanding young talent on defense.
For someone with this view you seem to know precious little about our young players.
I think anal-itics would say that a full recovery from his injury is not probable.....and we shouldnt count on him returning to his past form......if he does?....then SCORE!!!
Of all the positions where a knee diminishes a player, CB has to top the list.
I remember Rod Woodson did come back, but within a couple seasons shifted to FS.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
He was a 7th round flier, a guy who used to be a top prospect, he might recover and become a solid contributor, if so then great pick, if not, no harm done.
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top top prospect too......I totally agree with taking that flier....
And you never know....even with a compromised knee, he could still be better than average....fingers crossed...
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Three D starters went down in the playoffs that year including Von. Crystal ball must have told him they still wouldn't have won even with those guys.
The way the Denver Offense shriveled up and died 3 SB's ago, I have trouble accepting that Elway came away saying, "Man, I have to fix our Defense."
I think this team has outstanding young talent on defense.
For someone with this view you seem to know precious little about our young players.
I think anal-itics would say that a full recovery from his injury is not probable.....and we shouldnt count on him returning to his past form......if he does?....then SCORE!!!
Of all the positions where a knee diminishes a player, CB has to top the list.
I remember Rod Woodson did come back, but within a couple seasons shifted to FS.
The way the Denver Offense shriveled up and died 3 SB's ago, I have trouble accepting that Elway came away saying, "Man, I have to fix our Defense."
Pretty much everything I have read about it alludes to exactly that. It was an embarrassment for their D not to be able to match Seattle's D. And he brought Kubiac in to change the way Manning was operating the O to fit an aging QB into managing it rather than carrying the team with it.
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I know that's the popular story, Ag, I just have trouble accepting it.
Changes included HC and both OCs.
Both OCs brought with them new schemes.
Only 3 Offensive starters from the 2013 SB team started in 2015.
Three defensive starters plus a reserve from the 2013 SB team started in 2015.
Looks like they remade the team as a whole. Obviously the D turned out to be better, but how much of that was design vs. diminished QB play?
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Three D starters went down in the playoffs that year including Von. Crystal ball must have told him they still wouldn't have won even with those guys.
The way the Denver Offense shriveled up and died 3 SB's ago, I have trouble accepting that Elway came away saying, "Man, I have to fix our Defense."
I think this team has outstanding young talent on defense.
For someone with this view you seem to know precious little about our young players.
I think anal-itics would say that a full recovery from his injury is not probable.....and we shouldnt count on him returning to his past form......if he does?....then SCORE!!!
Of all the positions where a knee diminishes a player, CB has to top the list.
I remember Rod Woodson did come back, but within a couple seasons shifted to FS.
The way the Denver Offense shriveled up and died 3 SB's ago, I have trouble accepting that Elway came away saying, "Man, I have to fix our Defense."
For someone with this view you seem to know precious little about our young players.
Why don't you fuck yourself with your stupid mother's dick. You don't know shit about our players any more than I do.
Oh...you do a breakdown of offensive line play. Who gives a flying fuck.
Tell us what players are good enough to win with. You have no clue.
We have Shelton and Cooper.....good young defensive linemen. And Hughes. We certainly can add more....Get Bosa. Older players like Dez Bryant and Starks: serviceable. Can we do better...surely
LBs: I was going to say Kirksey, Orchard, and A. Bryant. Well, maybe not Bryant.
At DB we have some good young talent...Gipson if we keep him. K'Waun Williams. And the hope is that Desir, Campbell and Ekrpe can develop.
Did I say that we were loaded like the '85 Bears? No I didn't say that, I said that I think we have some outstanding young talent on this defense.
And I just gave you the people that I though constituted that.
And there is NO fucking debate that you can make on that can refute that.
Can we get more better talent? Absolutely. That is what I have been saying about this draft....take the best defensive player out there.
So, eat shit and die if you don't like what I say about it. I just happen to be right.....as nearly always.
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"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The Browns and Broncos are at completely different stages of a team's life-cycle. The Broncos with a Superbowl Bust defense were still playoff contenders, and therefore were in a position where signing marquee free agents could make the difference between winning the Super Bowl or not. I'm not taking anything away from Elway. He did what was right for his team: he saw that Manning wouldn't be able to carry the Broncos anymore, and decided to put the load on the defense. He also knew Manning didn't have several years for the defense to develop young players, so he went out and signed proven veterans.
The Browns in hindsight have applied a similar formula, but because they are not playoff contenders, the formula failed them. They let a young player, T.J. Ward, go, in favor of an aging player, Donte Whitner. They brought in an aging linebacker in Dansby and lineman in Starks. The sum of their free agency moves is that they now have not only one of the worst defenses in the NFL, but the oldest. By the time the younger players on this team hit their prime, Whitner, Dansby, and Starks will be long gone. A few years from now, they will have missed the opportunity to have Whitner, Dansby, and Starks while they are productive AT THE SAME TIME as the players they drafted in the past two years hit their prime.
That's why the Browns need to build through the draft, have a crop of players within a few years of age of each other, and develop them together so when they all hit their prime the Browns can be a Super Bowl contender. You have to have this kind of overall strategy in building the team, you can't just jump into free agency to try and address the team's problems without looking ahead to the future. This year, they should only sign free-agents coming off their rookie deal. In three to four years, if we're a playoff team, THEN you can start getting older guys to get you over the hump.
The Browns and Broncos are at completely different stages of a team's life-cycle. The Broncos with a Superbowl Bust defense were still playoff contenders, and therefore were in a position where signing marquee free agents could make the difference between winning the Super Bowl or not. I'm not taking anything away from Elway. He did what was right for his team: he saw that Manning wouldn't be able to carry the Broncos anymore, and decided to put the load on the defense. He also knew Manning didn't have several years for the defense to develop young players, so he went out and signed proven veterans.
The Browns in hindsight have applied a similar formula, but because they are not playoff contenders, the formula failed them. They let a young player, T.J. Ward, go, in favor of an aging player, Donte Whitner. They brought in an aging linebacker in Dansby and lineman in Starks. The sum of their free agency moves is that they now have not only one of the worst defenses in the NFL, but the oldest. By the time the younger players on this team hit their prime, Whitner, Dansby, and Starks will be long gone. A few years from now, they will have missed the opportunity to have Whitner, Dansby, and Starks while they are productive AT THE SAME TIME as the players they drafted in the past two years hit their prime.
That's why the Browns need to build through the draft, have a crop of players within a few years of age of each other, and develop them together so when they all hit their prime the Browns can be a Super Bowl contender. You have to have this kind of overall strategy in building the team, you can't just jump into free agency to try and address the team's problems without looking ahead to the future. This year, they should only sign free-agents coming off their rookie deal. In three to four years, if we're a playoff team, THEN you can start getting older guys to get you over the hump.
to all you board members that still think our d is so good, you are crazy...they really stink, . slow, can't tackle, drop int's...cannot get a turnover to save their lives...and to the point that you made osiris, you are the most dead on than anyone else..go back and look at all these players that we had...mcginnis, he's going to the hof...we get him as a free agent when he's all withered up...couldn't do shit...delhomme...washed up when we got him... i remember some board member on another board boasting how delhomme was going to get the clowns to the playoffs and eventually the sb...phwwwwappp...yeah ok... WILLIS MGHEE...WHAT WAS THAT....no ligaments left..no knees left..guy was incredible at one time. who else...oh yeah...scott fujita, another slowwwwww lb....the grandpa from the eagles we got that had more grass stains on his ass from getting faked out and stunk up the field...can't remember his name...only his number was 24...i can name you many more...You want a good example of a good free agent aquisitions...mike turner when the falcons got him...he still had 3 good yrs left in him and he did produce before he finally went downhill..remember calvin hill...i thought that was a real good one also...he really did pretty good, and we got him maybe a little past his peak, but he did produce...don't think there were any analytics involved with the 2 i mentioned...
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Why don't we hire John Elway then?
DAMN THE TORPEDOES! FULL SPEED AHEAD! -
I know that's the popular story, Ag, I just have trouble accepting it.
Changes included HC and both OCs.
Both OCs brought with them new schemes.
Only 3 Offensive starters from the 2013 SB team started in 2015.
Three defensive starters plus a reserve from the 2013 SB team started in 2015.
Looks like they remade the team as a whole. Obviously the D turned out to be better, but how much of that was design vs. diminished QB play?
I know that's the popular story, Ag, I just have trouble accepting it.
Changes included HC and both OCs.
Both OCs brought with them new schemes.
Only 3 Offensive starters from the 2013 SB team started in 2015.
Three defensive starters plus a reserve from the 2013 SB team started in 2015.
Looks like they remade the team as a whole. Obviously the D turned out to be better, but how much of that was design vs. diminished QB play?
Thank you, thank you.
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did i just read what i think i just read? ???
I twitched a little...anybody else facial tick reading that?
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did i just read what i think i just read? ???
Could probably get James Harrison as DC, while we're at it.
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Why don't we hire John Elway then?
yikes!!
Browns fans typically don't care for J.E. very much Opal. Ol Horseface's elite QB play was instrumental in keeping the Browns out of the SB multiple years in the mid-late 80s...aka the last time they were consistently and perennially competitive.
a diehard friend of mine pissed all over the front doors of his restaurant his first night in Denver. that was somewhat recently. scars run deep for many.
personally, i respect Elway's talent but resent the Broncs beating the Browns in closing moments and then proceeding to lose in the SB...then doing it again the next year--both winnable games for the Browns. i could never root for his product. too taboo.
i wouldn't mind rooting for a productive copy cat version at all though...
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The actual MVP of the game was the Broncos DT. I hope our analytics FO sees that the championship defense is built inside-out, with the glitzy players [the DB's] being less significant than the DT & DE.
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The actual MVP of the game was the Broncos DT. I hope our analytics FO sees that the championship defense is built inside-out, with the glitzy players [the DB's] being less significant than the DT & DE.
The actual MVP of the game was the Broncos DT. I hope our analytics FO sees that the championship defense is built inside-out, with the glitzy players [the DB's] being less significant than the DT & DE.
And Malik Jackson is my #1 FA target since it will be hard for the Broncos to sign him under their cap even with franchising Von Miller.
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Although I agree we should ask Jackson, I'd rather go for Damon Harrison. Harrison has been one of the best interior run defenders in the league recently, and him next to Shelton would not only free up our pick to be the QB, it would also solidify the DL to actualize what we've told ourselves it would be each of the last 2 offseasons.
Jackson made a ton of money with his play in the SB.. I bet Harrison is cheaper for more run-stopping performance. Plus, Shelton at NT eating double-teams will free up Harrison. Those two plus the Bryant who isn't a felon seems a pretty potent group.
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