Should Browns be thinking of trading Gordon?
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There's so little upside in trading him, as potential partners would hardly be getting a proven commodity (in terms of reliability, not talent). It'd be one thing if Gordon screwed up again and he would lose like 6 games, but the resounding feeling I get is that he screws up again and he's done...basically forever. So what would a team possibly give up for a guy that's a beer away from never seeing the field again? I get that his talent is extremely desirable, but he has to walk such a straight line that it's not even funny.
Additionally, his salary is very low (as I understand it), and from what I remember, we have him for this season and possibly NEXT year (I don't remember the specifics of what I heard. Possible the source was talking about a franchise tag, but I don't think that was it). Gordon put up silly numbers playing with Brandon Weeden, and granted many of his yards came in slop time, his talent is still evident. And for a guy that has screwed up way more than most in the league, he's a likeable guy! I've always felt that Gordon could somehow get his stuff together, and I hope I'm proven right. Not having a premier WR threat was never more apparent than it was last season, and Josh McCown can throw the rock. I see Gordon commanding a lot of defensive attention, would could very easily make a ton of room for either Barnidge or Benji.
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Trade him if anyone wants him.
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As with any player, there's a price. If someone offers us their entire draft and three future first rounders, I'm sure we'd happily give them Johnson Bademosi. On the flip side, if someone offers us a conditional seventh rounder in 2025 for Joe Thomas, they'd be swiftly told where to go.
For each player, there's a fair price somewhere between those ranges. If the fair price is met, and the player is deemed replaceable, then go for it. Otherwise, don't, or jack the price up.
So, the question really is not 'should the browns trade Josh Gordon?' but 'what would be a fair value for Josh Gordon?' and the debate applies equally to all players.
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Gordon was a such a huge disappointment a couple of season ago. I remember we were sitting at 6-3, first place in the division and I couldn't wait for Gordon to complete his 10 game suspension as I thought for sure he was going to help us win the division in the last six games of the season.
Everything I have read recently has been positive about Gordon though and he has great talent so unless someone gives us a great deal for him I would vote to keep him.
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who's gonna give us anything for him? I mean yeah if we would get some shit, of course. But who's gonna give us anything for a guy who's one strike away from exiting the game completely?
people just don't get it....you hit the nail on the head....
people just don't get it....you hit the nail on the head....
....so don't trade him?
nobody even knows what this kid is doing or where he is...i haven't heard anything...don't see anything on espn...nothing on the radio....its a crapshoot...you gameplan for someone like him and then pow, another incident and he's booted out of the nfl...then what do you do, we don't have any recievers worth a shit. remember, this is cleveland where all bad luck and bad shit happens....
I'd call it 'keeping a low profile'....tho not sure what you're saying here, is it trade him now??....
Even though you don't know what he's doing and ESPN doesn't know what he's doing, the NFL and his assigned Medical Advisor do.....and they've been working with him, monitoring his treatment plan and testing him through out his suspension.....
So, since he's applied for reinstatement, you have to assume he's met all the requirements to do so.....or why bother?
the resounding feeling I get is that he screws up again and he's done...basically forever. So what would a team possibly give up for a guy that's a beer away from never seeing the field again? I get that his talent is extremely desirable, but he has to walk such a straight line that it's not even funny.
Additionally, his salary is very low (as I understand it), and from what I remember, we have him for this season and possibly NEXT year (I don't remember the specifics of what I heard. Possible the source was talking about a franchise tag, but I don't think that was it).
Right....the one dim glimmer of hope is that "after 2 years" of staying clean, he can be discharged from the program by his medical advisor....all based upon how well he's adhered to his treatment program, etc.....it's a long shot, but possible....
Salary wise, we have him this year....and next season he will be a restricted FA, meaning we can match any offers.....If he returns to form this season, Id expect a nice contract offer, with lots of conditions(and zero guaranteed money).....IE ....he'll get the big bucks, but only if he's here and playing....
As with any player, there's a price.
Exactly....the one trade opportunity that may go over well is to package him for a move up in the draft.....say Gordon and a mid round pick or 2 to move back into the first?......
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people just don't get it....you hit the nail on the head....
....so don't trade him?
nobody even knows what this kid is doing or where he is...i haven't heard anything...don't see anything on espn...nothing on the radio....its a crapshoot...you gameplan for someone like him and then pow, another incident and he's booted out of the nfl...then what do you do, we don't have any recievers worth a shit. remember, this is cleveland where all bad luck and bad shit happens....
I'd call it 'keeping a low profile'....tho not sure what you're saying here, is it trade him now??....
Even though you don't know what he's doing and ESPN doesn't know what he's doing, the NFL and his assigned Medical Advisor do.....and they've been working with him, monitoring his treatment plan and testing him through out his suspension.....
So, since he's applied for reinstatement, you have to assume he's met all the requirements to do so.....or why bother?
the resounding feeling I get is that he screws up again and he's done...basically forever. So what would a team possibly give up for a guy that's a beer away from never seeing the field again? I get that his talent is extremely desirable, but he has to walk such a straight line that it's not even funny.
Additionally, his salary is very low (as I understand it), and from what I remember, we have him for this season and possibly NEXT year (I don't remember the specifics of what I heard. Possible the source was talking about a franchise tag, but I don't think that was it).
Right....the one dim glimmer of hope is that "after 2 years" of staying clean, he can be discharged from the program by his medical advisor....all based upon how well he's adhered to his treatment program, etc.....it's a long shot, but possible....
Salary wise, we have him this year....and next season he will be a restricted FA, meaning we can match any offers.....If he returns to form this season, Id expect a nice contract offer, with lots of conditions(and zero guaranteed money).....IE ....he'll get the big bucks, but only if he's here and playing....
As with any player, there's a price.
Exactly....the one trade opportunity that may go over well is to package him for a move up in the draft.....say Gordon and a mid round pick or 2 to move back into the first?......
....so don't trade him?
I'd call it 'keeping a low profile'....tho not sure what you're saying here, is it trade him now??....
Even though you don't know what he's doing and ESPN doesn't know what he's doing, the NFL and his assigned Medical Advisor do.....and they've been working with him, monitoring his treatment plan and testing him through out his suspension.....
So, since he's applied for reinstatement, you have to assume he's met all the requirements to do so.....or why bother?
Right....the one dim glimmer of hope is that "after 2 years" of staying clean, he can be discharged from the program by his medical advisor....all based upon how well he's adhered to his treatment program, etc.....it's a long shot, but possible....
Salary wise, we have him this year....and next season he will be a restricted FA, meaning we can match any offers.....If he returns to form this season, Id expect a nice contract offer, with lots of conditions(and zero guaranteed money).....IE ....he'll get the big bucks, but only if he's here and playing....
Exactly....the one trade opportunity that may go over well is to package him for a move up in the draft.....say Gordon and a mid round pick or 2 to move back into the first?......
Who would give that? A first for Gordon and a third? They'd be crucified. Maybe for our second we could move up and get Jaylon Smith or someone around the #20 mark.
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I can't see Hue letting a modestly paid yet on the field proven top talent like Gordon go without personally giving him a try.
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....so don't trade him?
I'd call it 'keeping a low profile'....tho not sure what you're saying here, is it trade him now??....
Even though you don't know what he's doing and ESPN doesn't know what he's doing, the NFL and his assigned Medical Advisor do.....and they've been working with him, monitoring his treatment plan and testing him through out his suspension.....
So, since he's applied for reinstatement, you have to assume he's met all the requirements to do so.....or why bother?
Right....the one dim glimmer of hope is that "after 2 years" of staying clean, he can be discharged from the program by his medical advisor....all based upon how well he's adhered to his treatment program, etc.....it's a long shot, but possible....
Salary wise, we have him this year....and next season he will be a restricted FA, meaning we can match any offers.....If he returns to form this season, Id expect a nice contract offer, with lots of conditions(and zero guaranteed money).....IE ....he'll get the big bucks, but only if he's here and playing....
Exactly....the one trade opportunity that may go over well is to package him for a move up in the draft.....say Gordon and a mid round pick or 2 to move back into the first?......
Who would give that? A first for Gordon and a third? They'd be crucified. Maybe for our second we could move up and get Jaylon Smith or someone around the #20 mark.
Who would give that? A first for Gordon and a third? They'd be crucified. Maybe for our second we could move up and get Jaylon Smith or someone around the #20 mark.
I dont know....maybe they would be crucified(probably). But Im basically saying Id do it, but wouldnt give Gordon away for a late rounder. Keep in mind our picks are very early ones.....so our 2nd is basically a late first etc....
Truth is....there is huge risk at both ends of a Gordon deal, making it hard for anyone to pull the trigger.....my preference all along has been to keep him and try to tap that much needed talent....there is no risk for us at this point....
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I think he's just one of those guys that's worth a lot more to us than anyone else. Like Osweiler with the Broncos, or Cousins.
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There's so little upside in trading him, as potential partners would hardly be getting a proven commodity (in terms of reliability, not talent). It'd be one thing if Gordon screwed up again and he would lose like 6 games, but the resounding feeling I get is that he screws up again and he's done...basically forever. So what would a team possibly give up for a guy that's a beer away from never seeing the field again? I get that his talent is extremely desirable, but he has to walk such a straight line that it's not even funny.
Additionally, his salary is very low (as I understand it), and from what I remember, we have him for this season and possibly NEXT year (I don't remember the specifics of what I heard. Possible the source was talking about a franchise tag, but I don't think that was it). Gordon put up silly numbers playing with Brandon Weeden, and granted many of his yards came in slop time, his talent is still evident. And for a guy that has screwed up way more than most in the league, he's a likeable guy! I've always felt that Gordon could somehow get his stuff together, and I hope I'm proven right. Not having a premier WR threat was never more apparent than it was last season, and Josh McCown can throw the rock. I see Gordon commanding a lot of defensive attention, would could very easily make a ton of room for either Barnidge or Benji.
So what would a team possibly give up for a guy that's a beer away from never seeing the field again?
Is that true?
I know his DUI induced prohibition was an issue separate and apart from his drug suspension. Are they now lumped together in essentially a one-strike program?
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Well since this current 1 year suspension is for use following alcohol detection well after the DUI, I suspect detection of any substance will be the final straw regardless as to type of substance.
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people just don't get it....you hit the nail on the head....
....so don't trade him?
nobody even knows what this kid is doing or where he is...i haven't heard anything...don't see anything on espn...nothing on the radio....its a crapshoot...you gameplan for someone like him and then pow, another incident and he's booted out of the nfl...then what do you do, we don't have any recievers worth a shit. remember, this is cleveland where all bad luck and bad shit happens....
I'd call it 'keeping a low profile'....tho not sure what you're saying here, is it trade him now??....
Even though you don't know what he's doing and ESPN doesn't know what he's doing, the NFL and his assigned Medical Advisor do.....and they've been working with him, monitoring his treatment plan and testing him through out his suspension.....
So, since he's applied for reinstatement, you have to assume he's met all the requirements to do so.....or why bother?
the resounding feeling I get is that he screws up again and he's done...basically forever. So what would a team possibly give up for a guy that's a beer away from never seeing the field again? I get that his talent is extremely desirable, but he has to walk such a straight line that it's not even funny.
Additionally, his salary is very low (as I understand it), and from what I remember, we have him for this season and possibly NEXT year (I don't remember the specifics of what I heard. Possible the source was talking about a franchise tag, but I don't think that was it).
Right....the one dim glimmer of hope is that "after 2 years" of staying clean, he can be discharged from the program by his medical advisor....all based upon how well he's adhered to his treatment program, etc.....it's a long shot, but possible....
Salary wise, we have him this year....and next season he will be a restricted FA, meaning we can match any offers.....If he returns to form this season, Id expect a nice contract offer, with lots of conditions(and zero guaranteed money).....IE ....he'll get the big bucks, but only if he's here and playing....
As with any player, there's a price.
Exactly....the one trade opportunity that may go over well is to package him for a move up in the draft.....say Gordon and a mid round pick or 2 to move back into the first?......
Salary wise, we have him this year....and next season he will be a restricted FA, meaning we can match any offers.....If he returns to form this season, Id expect a nice contract offer, with lots of conditions(and zero guaranteed money).....IE ....he'll get the big bucks, but only if he's here and playing....
I believe he is ours for two years... period.
Original 4-year contract 2012 through 2015, but both his 2014 and 2015 years failed to accrue.
- Obviously 2015 due the full-year suspension.
- 2014 due to his one-game, week-17 suspension for being late. Left him with only 5 game appearances in 2014... one shy of the 6 needed for contract accrual.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Those safeguards should be in any contract. Get yourself suspended for the year, the team can tear up your contract. Not exactly unfair.
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Gordon was a such a huge disappointment a couple of season ago. I remember we were sitting at 6-3, first place in the division and I couldn't wait for Gordon to complete his 10 game suspension as I thought for sure he was going to help us win the division in the last six games of the season.
Everything I have read recently has been positive about Gordon though and he has great talent so unless someone gives us a great deal for him I would vote to keep him.
Gordon was a such a huge disappointment a couple of season ago. I remember we were sitting at 6-3, first place in the division and I couldn't wait for Gordon to complete his 10 game suspension as I thought for sure he was going to help us win the division in the last six games of the season.
There with you, but as much as I loved Hoyer part of Gordon's disappointment is on Brian. He simply did not have the arm to hit Josh 50-yards downfield as Wheezy and Campbell did in 2013. That left Josh with bubble screens, quick slants and 15-yd square-ins... all of which are considerably less productive, yet more painful, than sideline flies. After a time I think Josh's enthusiasm was curtailed.
Add the lack of time together and the pressure Hoyer felt to involve Josh to save the season for the team and himself, and the disappointment cocktail was ready to be served.
Plus there was a bad influence on the team that I suspect was in Josh's ear... but that's history as well...
Bottom line: I think the stage is set for a truly fresh start in 2016...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Salary wise, we have him this year....and next season he will be a restricted FA, meaning we can match any offers.....If he returns to form this season, Id expect a nice contract offer, with lots of conditions(and zero guaranteed money).....IE ....he'll get the big bucks, but only if he's here and playing....
I believe he is ours for two years... period.
Original 4-year contract 2012 through 2015, but both his 2014 and 2015 years failed to accrue.
- Obviously 2015 due the full-year suspension.
- 2014 due to his one-game, week-17 suspension for being late. Left him with only 5 game appearances in 2014... one shy of the 6 needed for contract accrual.
I believe he is ours for two years... period.
Original 4-year contract 2012 through 2015, but both his 2014 and 2015 years failed to accrue.
- Obviously 2015 due the full-year suspension.
- 2014 due to his one-game, week-17 suspension for being late. Left him with only 5 game appearances in 2014... one shy of the 6 needed for contract accrual.
Im pretty sure he'll be an RFA in 2017.....which happens at the 3 year mark, not 4......
So, technically he would have been an RFA last year and UFA this year, but that was pushed back to RFA...then with the added suspension, that got pushed back again....to 2017....
I understand he's appealing this, but no way they'll rule in his favor....
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to be clear though, someone does offer something nice.....you take that deal before the persons lips are done moving.
Sure, and when he goes on to have a Chris Carter level career elsewhere, you'll be kicking yourself in the ass. We won't get anything for him, and he's still on his cheap rookie deal
Another silly season guys flapping their gums on a slow news day. Like the Cavs are gonna trade for Mello.
Sure, and when he goes on to have a Chris Carter level career elsewhere, you'll be kicking yourself in the ass. We won't get anything for him, and he's still on his cheap rookie deal
which is why I said "only" if we get something nice. What your def of nice is I dunno. I would think a 1st or high 2nd rounder might be worth it. I mean has his status changed at all? He is one strike away from perma ban no?
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The talent-poor Browns do not have the luxury of trading away a talent as great as Gordon. Granted, he's one spark away from getting kicked out of the NFL for good. However, if he stays clean and plays hard he's a pro-bowl wide out.
The Browns absolutely have to roll the dice with Gordon. If he screws up the Browns won't be worse off than they are now. The only way that the Browns can mess this up is to trade him...because if they do Gordon will stay off the weed and put up All-Pro numbers for the next four seasons.
The talent-poor Browns do not have the luxury of trading away a talent as great as Gordon. Granted, he's one spark away from getting kicked out of the NFL for good. However, if he stays clean and plays hard he's a pro-bowl wide out.
The Browns absolutely have to roll the dice with Gordon. If he screws up the Browns won't be worse off than they are now. The only way that the Browns can mess this up is to trade him...because if they do Gordon will stay off the weed and put up All-Pro numbers for the next four seasons.
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sorry guys, i would. first slip up and he's gone for good with no compensation. yes best receiver we've had in a long time BUT.....
can't stay off the WEEDen.
Mik, apparently, he has- or you think there have been zero drug tests during his suspension?
....so don't trade him?
I'd call it 'keeping a low profile'....tho not sure what you're saying here, is it trade him now??....
Even though you don't know what he's doing and ESPN doesn't know what he's doing, the NFL and his assigned Medical Advisor do.....and they've been working with him, monitoring his treatment plan and testing him through out his suspension.....
So, since he's applied for reinstatement, you have to assume he's met all the requirements to do so.....or why bother?
Right....the one dim glimmer of hope is that "after 2 years" of staying clean, he can be discharged from the program by his medical advisor....all based upon how well he's adhered to his treatment program, etc.....it's a long shot, but possible....
Salary wise, we have him this year....and next season he will be a restricted FA, meaning we can match any offers.....If he returns to form this season, Id expect a nice contract offer, with lots of conditions(and zero guaranteed money).....IE ....he'll get the big bucks, but only if he's here and playing....
What I wounder is if the one year suspension counts towards that two year. If that's the case he only has to stay clean for another year or so.
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I believe he is ours for two years... period.
Original 4-year contract 2012 through 2015, but both his 2014 and 2015 years failed to accrue.
- Obviously 2015 due the full-year suspension.
- 2014 due to his one-game, week-17 suspension for being late. Left him with only 5 game appearances in 2014... one shy of the 6 needed for contract accrual.
Im pretty sure he'll be an RFA in 2017.....which happens at the 3 year mark, not 4......
So, technically he would have been an RFA last year and UFA this year, but that was pushed back to RFA...then with the added suspension, that got pushed back again....to 2017....
I understand he's appealing this, but no way they'll rule in his favor....
Im pretty sure he'll be an RFA in 2017.....which happens at the 3 year mark, not 4......
So, technically he would have been an RFA last year and UFA this year, but that was pushed back to RFA...then with the added suspension, that got pushed back again....to 2017....
I understand he's appealing this, but no way they'll rule in his favor....
Agree on the appeal... but OverTheCap has his original contract at 4-years...
Year - Base - Prorated - Cap Number
.2012 $390,000 $581,209 $971,209
.2013 $632,802 $581,209 $1,139,564
.2014 $825,604 $564,115 $954,070
2015$1,068,406 $564,115 $564,115
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Im pretty sure he'll be an RFA in 2017.....which happens at the 3 year mark, not 4......
So, technically he would have been an RFA last year and UFA this year, but that was pushed back to RFA...then with the added suspension, that got pushed back again....to 2017....
I understand he's appealing this, but no way they'll rule in his favor....
Agree on the appeal... but OverTheCap has his original contract at 4-years...
Year - Base - Prorated - Cap Number
.2012 $390,000 $581,209 $971,209
.2013 $632,802 $581,209 $1,139,564
.2014 $825,604 $564,115 $954,070
2015$1,068,406 $564,115 $564,115
Agree on the appeal... but OverTheCap has his original contract at 4-years...
Year - Base - Prorated - Cap Number
.2012 $390,000 $581,209 $971,209
.2013 $632,802 $581,209 $1,139,564
.2014 $825,604 $564,115 $954,070
2015$1,068,406 $564,115 $564,115
Of which, 2014 was basically void, because of the final game suspension, which puts him at 2016, and 2015 was a write off putting him at 2017, no?
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Im pretty sure he'll be an RFA in 2017.....which happens at the 3 year mark, not 4......
So, technically he would have been an RFA last year and UFA this year, but that was pushed back to RFA...then with the added suspension, that got pushed back again....to 2017....
I understand he's appealing this, but no way they'll rule in his favor....
Agree on the appeal... but OverTheCap has his original contract at 4-years...
Year - Base - Prorated - Cap Number
.2012 $390,000 $581,209 $971,209
.2013 $632,802 $581,209 $1,139,564
.2014 $825,604 $564,115 $954,070
2015$1,068,406 $564,115 $564,115
Agree on the appeal... but OverTheCap has his original contract at 4-years...
Right, but even OTC shows him signed thru 2016 only...everybody gets a 4 year contract as required by the CBA, but can out at 3 and become a RFA(except first rounders)...I was pretty sure before, but looked around a lot more today and am certain he is RFA 2017, UFA 2018....
So, we have him for 1 year, can match in 2 years and can trans tag him in 3(if we so choose).....
Here's a link that spells it out....
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/josh-gordon/
Of which, 2014 was basically void, because of the final game suspension, which puts him at 2016, and 2015 was a write off putting him at 2017, no?
Correct....
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