Browns have $42.368m in cap space
-
Will we spend it ?
Or bank it and suck ?
If we were THAT close to signing Benjamin while nobody here is earning #1 WR money anyhow, let's pay the guy while he's playing his best football at about 26 years of age. If we don't aren't we going to have to sign a WR for the type of money we're unwilling to pay Benjamin anyway?
3-13 football teams that never come close salary cap concerns - shouldn't be counting their pennies when it finally has a mid/late round success story that actually:
passes drug tests (prioritizes football career over partying).
stays out of trouble
cares enough to know the play book
runs routes when he's not the primary receiver
averaged 17.4 yards per catch in 2014 and led our WR Corps in TD receptions
got better in spite all the turnover at HC, OC and QB
If I'm going to hold Manziel accountable for prioritizing partying over football - how are all the examples of Gordon doing this in 2 different college programs and us only getting 4-5 games out of him in 2 years any different? He may be a better kid/more likable kid than Manziel; but his stupidity has him down to 1 strike =career over even if it's just 1 or 2 beers (because of the sum of dumb). Not exactly hold my breath material. We're giving up on the wrong guy and betting on the one that's never put his career opportunity here first. Why let some other team benefit from all the patience and training this franchise has put into Benjamin when we were allegedly so close to his "yes tag" previously reported in here?
I adore Hue's message about us not tolerating unacceptable behavior (such as repeatedly choosing partying over football) so here's the perfect way to kick it off. Trade the last strike for exchange value. All this time we've pretended we had our fictional WR - what's happened? He showed up disinterested in 2014 so a team that was 6-4 when he returned finished 1-5 with Mr Wonderful getting suspended for being tardy/absent from a meeting. So much for another empty promise about "this time I'm REALLY going to give Cleveland the best version of me." Well kid, if the BEST version of you refuses to put football first - you're still aren't smart enough to GET it so we're dangerously close to game over. In his dream season, we won 4 games so I'll bring that up before somebody wants to lecture me on how gotta keep he is to our chances of winning. Get someone that at least LOVES football please.... All the while, we've pretended we were all set with Gordon - what play makers outside have we drafted since 2012? Cupboards are bare. We've been patient enough to where we shouldn't have to witness the inevitable final strike - keep in mind his stupidity has continued to cost him MILLION$. The guys that show up here with heart like Lenz and Benjamin shouldn't be the types of players we're excited to dismiss IMO. Upside dies when football stops being first. Look at the difference between Braylon Edwards rehabbing himself to prove he's worth being a 3rd overall pick to the post Pro Bowl version that was in the headlines more for bar fights than football thereafter. I don't even have evidence Gordon likes football which is why I see a guy who doesn't run routes when he's not the primary receiver in a team game. Does that help a QB going through the progressions? 2014 couldn't have been a better stage for Mr Wonderful and he flat lined on us. That was the last time I Iet his promise of talent fool me. No thanks!
Jerry Jones would do up a trade with us. I'm sure our front office guys can up with better ideas than me on what we could get in exchange providing we don't learn Gordon's reinstatement is denied for more dirty urine.
If we were THAT close to signing Benjamin while nobody here is earning #1 WR money anyhow, let's pay the guy while he's playing his best football at about 26 years of age. If we don't aren't we going to have to sign a WR for the type of money we're unwilling to pay Benjamin anyway?
3-13 football teams that never come close salary cap concerns - shouldn't be counting their pennies when it finally has a mid/late round success story that actually:
passes drug tests (prioritizes football career over partying).
stays out of trouble
cares enough to know the play book
runs routes when he's not the primary receiver
averaged 17.4 yards per catch in 2014 and led our WR Corps in TD receptions
got better in spite all the turnover at HC, OC and QB
If I'm going to hold Manziel accountable for prioritizing partying over football - how are all the examples of Gordon doing this in 2 different college programs and us only getting 4-5 games out of him in 2 years any different? He may be a better kid/more likable kid than Manziel; but his stupidity has him down to 1 strike =career over even if it's just 1 or 2 beers (because of the sum of dumb). Not exactly hold my breath material. We're giving up on the wrong guy and betting on the one that's never put his career opportunity here first. Why let some other team benefit from all the patience and training this franchise has put into Benjamin when we were allegedly so close to his "yes tag" previously reported in here?
I adore Hue's message about us not tolerating unacceptable behavior (such as repeatedly choosing partying over football) so here's the perfect way to kick it off. Trade the last strike for exchange value. All this time we've pretended we had our fictional WR - what's happened? He showed up disinterested in 2014 so a team that was 6-4 when he returned finished 1-5 with Mr Wonderful getting suspended for being tardy/absent from a meeting. So much for another empty promise about "this time I'm REALLY going to give Cleveland the best version of me. Well kid, if the BEST version of you refuses to put football first - you're still aren't smart enough to GET it so we're dangerously close to game over. In his dream season, we won 4 games so I'll bring that up before somebody wants to lecture me on how gotta keep he is to our chances of winning. Get someone that at least LOVES football please.... All the while, we've pretended we were all set with Gordon - what play makers outside have we drafted since 2012? Cupboards are bare. We've been patient enough to where we shouldn't have to witness the inevitable final strike - keep in mind his stupidity has continued to cost him MILLION$. The guys that show up here with heart like Lenz and Benjamin shouldn't be the types of players we're excited to dismiss IMO. Upside dies when football stops being first. Look at the difference between Braylon Edwards rehabbing himself to prove he's worth being a 3rd round pick to the post Pro Bowl version that was in the headlines more for bar fights than football thereafter. I don't even have evidence Gordon likes football which is why I see a guy who doesn't run routes when he's not the primary receiver in a team game. Does that help a QB going through the progressions? 2014 couldn't have been a better stage for Mr Wonderful and he flat lined on us. That was the last time I Iet his promise of talent fool me. No thanks!
Jerry Jones would do up a trade with us. I'm sure our front office guys can up with better ideas than me on what we could get in exchange providing we don't learn Gordon's reinstatement is denied for more dirty urine.
Tom,
Great post & totally accurate. If the Browns stick with Gordon, I'll support that decision & HOPE he's better, but it's a HUGE gamble. As you said, the cupboards are bare due to "counting on Gordon".
I'm no gambler, but when I do, I don't draw to an inside straight against a huge pot. I prefer the odds in MY favor.
Mike
-
Will we spend it ?
Or bank it and suck ?
If we were THAT close to signing Benjamin while nobody here is earning #1 WR money anyhow, let's pay the guy while he's playing his best football at about 26 years of age. If we don't aren't we going to have to sign a WR for the type of money we're unwilling to pay Benjamin anyway?
3-13 football teams that never come close salary cap concerns - shouldn't be counting their pennies when it finally has a mid/late round success story that actually:
passes drug tests (prioritizes football career over partying).
stays out of trouble
cares enough to know the play book
runs routes when he's not the primary receiver
averaged 17.4 yards per catch in 2014 and led our WR Corps in TD receptions
got better in spite all the turnover at HC, OC and QB
If I'm going to hold Manziel accountable for prioritizing partying over football - how are all the examples of Gordon doing this in 2 different college programs and us only getting 4-5 games out of him in 2 years any different? He may be a better kid/more likable kid than Manziel; but his stupidity has him down to 1 strike =career over even if it's just 1 or 2 beers (because of the sum of dumb). Not exactly hold my breath material. We're giving up on the wrong guy and betting on the one that's never put his career opportunity here first. Why let some other team benefit from all the patience and training this franchise has put into Benjamin when we were allegedly so close to his "yes tag" previously reported in here?
I adore Hue's message about us not tolerating unacceptable behavior (such as repeatedly choosing partying over football) so here's the perfect way to kick it off. Trade the last strike for exchange value. All this time we've pretended we had our fictional WR - what's happened? He showed up disinterested in 2014 so a team that was 6-4 when he returned finished 1-5 with Mr Wonderful getting suspended for being tardy/absent from a meeting. So much for another empty promise about "this time I'm REALLY going to give Cleveland the best version of me." Well kid, if the BEST version of you refuses to put football first - you're still aren't smart enough to GET it so we're dangerously close to game over. In his dream season, we won 4 games so I'll bring that up before somebody wants to lecture me on how gotta keep he is to our chances of winning. Get someone that at least LOVES football please.... All the while, we've pretended we were all set with Gordon - what play makers outside have we drafted since 2012? Cupboards are bare. We've been patient enough to where we shouldn't have to witness the inevitable final strike - keep in mind his stupidity has continued to cost him MILLION$. The guys that show up here with heart like Lenz and Benjamin shouldn't be the types of players we're excited to dismiss IMO. Upside dies when football stops being first. Look at the difference between Braylon Edwards rehabbing himself to prove he's worth being a 3rd overall pick to the post Pro Bowl version that was in the headlines more for bar fights than football thereafter. I don't even have evidence Gordon likes football which is why I see a guy who doesn't run routes when he's not the primary receiver in a team game. Does that help a QB going through the progressions? 2014 couldn't have been a better stage for Mr Wonderful and he flat lined on us. That was the last time I Iet his promise of talent fool me. No thanks!
Jerry Jones would do up a trade with us. I'm sure our front office guys can up with better ideas than me on what we could get in exchange providing we don't learn Gordon's reinstatement is denied for more dirty urine.
The cupboards are not bare due to Gordon. To my knowledge Gordon has never been our GM. The most recent fellow to sit in that chair did not believe in the value of WRs... and clearly, based upon the big, FA signing during his tenure, he did not know how to evaluate the position either.
With the above eliminated what is HUGE about the gamble? Certainly not JG's compensation which is still under his rookie contract.
We've been patient enough to where we shouldn't have to witness the inevitable final strike...
This is where we part ways. Another failure is simply not inevitable...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The cupboards are not bare due to Gordon. To my knowledge Gordon has never been our GM. The most recent fellow to sit in that chair did not believe in the value of WRs... and clearly, based upon the big, FA signing during his tenure, he did not know how to evaluate the position either.
With the above eliminated what is HUGE about the gamble? Certainly not JG's compensation which is still under his rookie contract.
We've been patient enough to where we shouldn't have to witness the inevitable final strike...
This is where we part ways. Another failure is simply not inevitable...
This is where we part ways. Another failure is simply not inevitable...
If you are talking about Gordon, I'd give him less that a 50% chance of doing it right this time around. I mean what has he done to insure he doesn't have another relapse? Just not a lot different from JM except he is truly on his last leg with the whole NFL & he never had a media circus.
-
Let's get into salary cap trouble fuck it. All the teams with room aren't winning so let's go for broke.
-
The cupboards are not bare due to Gordon. To my knowledge Gordon has never been our GM. The most recent fellow to sit in that chair did not believe in the value of WRs... and clearly, based upon the big, FA signing during his tenure, he did not know how to evaluate the position either.
With the above eliminated what is HUGE about the gamble? Certainly not JG's compensation which is still under his rookie contract.
We've been patient enough to where we shouldn't have to witness the inevitable final strike...
This is where we part ways. Another failure is simply not inevitable...
The cupboards are not bare due to Gordon. To my knowledge Gordon has never been our GM. The most recent fellow to sit in that chair did not believe in the value of WRs... and clearly, based upon the big, FA signing during his tenure, he did not know how to evaluate the position either.
With the above eliminated what is HUGE about the gamble? Certainly not JG's compensation which is still under his rookie contract.
This is where we part ways. Another failure is simply not inevitable...
I'm with you Tour, Flugs knows where I stand on the Gordon issue. He's going to cost us around 25% of what I"d guess Benji is asking. Near zero risk if he flames out. His salary is going to be the equivalent of our second round pick. I'll take Gordon over any wr that we could snag @ #32. Plus trading Josh won't net us doggie doo-doo. Say around what the Raiders got for Randy Moss.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/josh-gordon/
If you are talking about Gordon, I'd give him less that a 50% chance of doing it right this time around. I mean what has he done to insure he doesn't have another relapse? Just not a lot different from JM except he is truly on his last leg with the whole NFL & he never had a media circus.
He's taken up painting, no news is good news. Been clean for a year. Supposedly motivated and in great shape. Johnny couldn't stay out of a bar for two weeks after rehab. I do wonder if all of Josh's drug tests while suspended count towards the new "The slate gets wiped clean after two years." If Miller could do it- hope Josh can do the same.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/4a02842a9dc64fe89bdd767e34a1b8be/miller-no-longer-nfls-drug-program
-
The cupboards are not bare due to Gordon. To my knowledge Gordon has never been our GM. The most recent fellow to sit in that chair did not believe in the value of WRs... and clearly, based upon the big, FA signing during his tenure, he did not know how to evaluate the position either.
With the above eliminated what is HUGE about the gamble? Certainly not JG's compensation which is still under his rookie contract.
We've been patient enough to where we shouldn't have to witness the inevitable final strike...
This is where we part ways. Another failure is simply not inevitable...
The cupboards are not bare due to Gordon. To my knowledge Gordon has never been our GM. The most recent fellow to sit in that chair did not believe in the value of WRs... and clearly, based upon the big, FA signing during his tenure, he did not know how to evaluate the position either.
With the above eliminated what is HUGE about the gamble? Certainly not JG's compensation which is still under his rookie contract.
This is where we part ways. Another failure is simply not inevitable...
Nobody in this thread said Gordon was the GM. Both Mike and me were saying there's been a trend of reluctance to even consider a #1 WR in the draft all the while Gordon has been here occupying the plan as #1 WR on the roster. This began before Farmer took over.
As for Gordon's sum of dumb serial trend of him letting down the team that gave him a shot beginning at Baylor, here's an extract of his history of suspensions reminding us things have yet to change in spite of all the chances. I've always been a big fan of giving people 2nd chances and even 3rd strikes. Let's have a look and determine exactly where his preference to partying over football differs from Manziel, not to be confused with who's the nicer kid:
Strike 1: Gordon accepted an athletic scholarship to play football for Baylor University. However, in October 2010, during his sophomore year, he and teammate Willie Jefferson were found asleep at a local Taco Bell. Police found marijuana in Jefferson's car. Jefferson, who was driving, was kicked off the team due to it being his second violation, but Gordon was only suspended.[10][11]
Strike 2: In July 2011, Gordon was suspended indefinitely by head coach Art Briles, for later failing a drug test and testing positive for marijuana.[10][11]
In August 2011, Gordon transferred to Utah, where he sat out the 2011 season declaring too late for the 2011 Supplemental Draft.[10][11]
Strike 3: On June 7, 2013, the NFL announced that Gordon would be suspended for the first two games of the 2013 season due to violating the NFL's substance-abuse policy.[19]
Strike 4: On August 27, 2014, Gordon acknowledged that the NFL suspended him for one year for violating the league's substance-abuse policy.[20] On September 19, 2014, his suspension was reduced to 10 games amidst the new NFL drug policy. Gordon was officially reinstated on November 17.[21]
Strike 5: On December 27, 2014, exactly one year removed from being selected into the Pro Bowl, the Browns suspended Gordon from the final game of the 2014 season due to a violation of team rules.[22]
Strike 6: As of January 2015, Gordon faced another year-long suspension due to testing positive for alcohol use.[23] Gordon entered the NFL's substance abuse program after pleading guilty to a driving while impaired charge in September 2014 and was prohibited from consuming alcohol during his time in the program.[24] Gordon was officially suspended for one year on February 3, 2015 and won't be able to return until the start of the 2016 season.[25]
On January 20, 2016, Gordon applied to the league for reinstatement.[26]
We're not exactly dealing with the brightest apple in the orchard here. So, what happens the next time he gets suspended besides us celebrating how much money we saved on our #1 WR spot here in Cleveland? What part shows us someone that learns from his mistakes? I already accepted his lies when he showed up telling us he's learned his lessons in college and each time he's let us down here. I did it more than 3 times if I count believing we would see the very best version of him when he returned in 2014. He's been here for 4 years and only made it 1 season without a suspension. As Mike said, I wish he gave us more to believe in than where we are at with him today.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
The cupboards are not bare due to Gordon. To my knowledge Gordon has never been our GM. The most recent fellow to sit in that chair did not believe in the value of WRs... and clearly, based upon the big, FA signing during his tenure, he did not know how to evaluate the position either.
With the above eliminated what is HUGE about the gamble? Certainly not JG's compensation which is still under his rookie contract.
This is where we part ways. Another failure is simply not inevitable...
Nobody in this thread said Gordon was the GM. Both Mike and me were saying there's been a trend of reluctance to even consider a #1 WR in the draft all the while Gordon has been here occupying the plan as #1 WR on the roster. This began before Farmer took over.
As for Gordon's sum of dumb serial trend of him letting down the team that gave him a shot beginning at Baylor, here's an extract of his history of suspensions reminding us things have yet to change in spite of all the chances. I've always been a big fan of giving people 2nd chances and even 3rd strikes. Let's have a look and determine exactly where his preference to partying over football differs from Manziel, not to be confused with who's the nicer kid:
Strike 1: Gordon accepted an athletic scholarship to play football for Baylor University. However, in October 2010, during his sophomore year, he and teammate Willie Jefferson were found asleep at a local Taco Bell. Police found marijuana in Jefferson's car. Jefferson, who was driving, was kicked off the team due to it being his second violation, but Gordon was only suspended.[10][11]
Strike 2: In July 2011, Gordon was suspended indefinitely by head coach Art Briles, for later failing a drug test and testing positive for marijuana.[10][11]
In August 2011, Gordon transferred to Utah, where he sat out the 2011 season declaring too late for the 2011 Supplemental Draft.[10][11]
Strike 3: On June 7, 2013, the NFL announced that Gordon would be suspended for the first two games of the 2013 season due to violating the NFL's substance-abuse policy.[19]
Strike 4: On August 27, 2014, Gordon acknowledged that the NFL suspended him for one year for violating the league's substance-abuse policy.[20] On September 19, 2014, his suspension was reduced to 10 games amidst the new NFL drug policy. Gordon was officially reinstated on November 17.[21]
Strike 5: On December 27, 2014, exactly one year removed from being selected into the Pro Bowl, the Browns suspended Gordon from the final game of the 2014 season due to a violation of team rules.[22]
Strike 6: As of January 2015, Gordon faced another year-long suspension due to testing positive for alcohol use.[23] Gordon entered the NFL's substance abuse program after pleading guilty to a driving while impaired charge in September 2014 and was prohibited from consuming alcohol during his time in the program.[24] Gordon was officially suspended for one year on February 3, 2015 and won't be able to return until the start of the 2016 season.[25]
On January 20, 2016, Gordon applied to the league for reinstatement.[26]
We're not exactly dealing with the brightest apple in the orchard here. So, what happens the next time he gets suspended besides us celebrating how much money we saved on our #1 WR spot here in Cleveland? What part shows us someone that learns from his mistakes? I already accepted his lies when he showed up telling us he's learned his lessons in college and each time he's let us down here. I did it more than 3 times if I count believing we would see the very best version of him when he returned in 2014. He's been here for 4 years and only made it 1 season without a suspension. As Mike said, I wish he gave us more to believe in than where we are at with him today.
We're not exactly dealing with the brightest apple in the orchard here. So, what happens the next time he gets suspended besides us celebrating how much money we saved on our #1 WR spot here in Cleveland? What part shows us someone that learns from his mistakes? I already accepted his lies when he showed up telling us he's learned his lessons in college and each time he's let us down here. I did it more than 3 times if I count believing we would see the very best version of him when he returned in 2014. He's been here for 4 years and only made it 1 season without a suspension. As Mike said, I wish he gave us more to believe in than where we are at with him today.
This is opposed to Manziel- who clearly doesn't give a shit. Gordon seems truly remorseful for his f**kups.
I'll grant you Josh isn't exactly the brightest bulb on the tree, but the marijuana bust was for a level so low, it would have passed Olympic muster. Then we had the purple drank episode, and the final nail was for having a couple of drinks- on a plane.
Looks like he's managed to stay clean for a year. Should he be reinstated, pretty sure Hue and Sashi will welcome him back- with conditions. 1,600 yard WRs don't exactly grow on trees. I'll tell you one thing Tom, if we dump Gordon, and he goes on to have a Chris Carter level career- you're going to be seriously kicking yourself in the ass. & if he flames out- very little lost. (my take)
-
The cupboards are not bare due to Gordon. To my knowledge Gordon has never been our GM. The most recent fellow to sit in that chair did not believe in the value of WRs... and clearly, based upon the big, FA signing during his tenure, he did not know how to evaluate the position either.
With the above eliminated what is HUGE about the gamble? Certainly not JG's compensation which is still under his rookie contract.
This is where we part ways. Another failure is simply not inevitable...
I'm with you Tour, Flugs knows where I stand on the Gordon issue. He's going to cost us around 25% of what I"d guess Benji is asking. Near zero risk if he flames out. His salary is going to be the equivalent of our second round pick. I'll take Gordon over any wr that we could snag @ #32. Plus trading Josh won't net us doggie doo-doo. Say around what the Raiders got for Randy Moss.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/josh-gordon/
If you are talking about Gordon, I'd give him less that a 50% chance of doing it right this time around. I mean what has he done to insure he doesn't have another relapse? Just not a lot different from JM except he is truly on his last leg with the whole NFL & he never had a media circus.
He's taken up painting, no news is good news. Been clean for a year. Supposedly motivated and in great shape. Johnny couldn't stay out of a bar for two weeks after rehab. I do wonder if all of Josh's drug tests while suspended count towards the new "The slate gets wiped clean after two years." If Miller could do it- hope Josh can do the same.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/4a02842a9dc64fe89bdd767e34a1b8be/miller-no-longer-nfls-drug-program
I'm with you Tour, Flugs knows where I stand on the Gordon issue. He's going to cost us around 25% of what I"d guess Benji is asking. Near zero risk if he flames out. His salary is going to be the equivalent of our second round pick. I'll take Gordon over any wr that we could snag @ #32. Plus trading Josh won't net us doggie doo-doo. Say around what the Raiders got for Randy Moss.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/josh-gordon/
He's taken up painting, no news is good news. Been clean for a year. Supposedly motivated and in great shape. Johnny couldn't stay out of a bar for two weeks after rehab. I do wonder if all of Josh's drug tests while suspended count towards the new "The slate gets wiped clean after two years." If Miller could do it- hope Josh can do the same.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/4a02842a9dc64fe89bdd767e34a1b8be/miller-no-longer-nfls-drug-program
Yeah, good thing Josh didn't cost us that much in 2015 while we were already guaranteeing 9 million $ to a WR who played his last good football in 2011 Larry. We wouldn't have had to pay a first round WR nearly that much cake so imagine how much less we'd have to pay a WR in the upper part of round 2 in today's rookie salary caps.
What a favor Josh did us being unavailable all because he couldn't refrain from drinking alcohol on a plane ride he was informed he'd be drug tested at the end of it. You go on reminding me why I should believe in that level of intellect as we take inventory on how many times he's been able to wear the uniform the last 2 seasons. I count 5. Upon his return, we went 1-4 after starting the year 6-4 in the perfect opportunity to show us something better than not knowing the plays, quitting on routes when he wasn't the primary WR and being tardy/late to a meeting all other teammates made on time.
Just like the 2014 draft, they can always wait until 2 days after we draft a first round QB to inform those fans spiking our season ticket sales over a 24-48 hour period - our #1 WR has failed another drug test. We're probably not going to get official word on whether he's been clean or not until we hear whether or not his application for reinstatement has been accepted and approved or denied. I can think of easier things to bet on like not needing to worry about such a thing with Travis Benjamin per say when we were allegedly so close to re-signing him only to leave it nitpick shy of lassoing the yes tag.
As it stands, the guy who's gears opened up underneath routes for others in 2015 was the guy we're about to give up (Benjamin). In essence a guy arriving at keeper football status has been trained up to benefit another team while he enters his best football via hard work,commitment and prioritizing football? Makes perfect sense on how to invest in a player you've invested 4 years on.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
We're not exactly dealing with the brightest apple in the orchard here. So, what happens the next time he gets suspended besides us celebrating how much money we saved on our #1 WR spot here in Cleveland? What part shows us someone that learns from his mistakes? I already accepted his lies when he showed up telling us he's learned his lessons in college and each time he's let us down here. I did it more than 3 times if I count believing we would see the very best version of him when he returned in 2014. He's been here for 4 years and only made it 1 season without a suspension. As Mike said, I wish he gave us more to believe in than where we are at with him today.
This is opposed to Manziel- who clearly doesn't give a shit. Gordon seems truly remorseful for his f**kups.
I'll grant you Josh isn't exactly the brightest bulb on the tree, but the marijuana bust was for a level so low, it would have passed Olympic muster. Then we had the purple drank episode, and the final nail was for having a couple of drinks- on a plane.
Looks like he's managed to stay clean for a year. Should he be reinstated, pretty sure Hue and Sashi will welcome him back- with conditions. 1,600 yard WRs don't exactly grow on trees. I'll tell you one thing Tom, if we dump Gordon, and he goes on to have a Chris Carter level career- you're going to be seriously kicking yourself in the ass. & if he flames out- very little lost. (my take)
This is opposed to Manziel- who clearly doesn't give a shit. Gordon seems truly remorseful for his f**kups.
I'll grant you Josh isn't exactly the brightest bulb on the tree, but the marijuana bust was for a level so low, it would have passed Olympic muster. Then we had the purple drank episode, and the final nail was for having a couple of drinks- on a plane.
Looks like he's managed to stay clean for a year. Should he be reinstated, pretty sure Hue and Sashi will welcome him back- with conditions. 1,600 yard WRs don't exactly grow on trees. I'll tell you one thing Tom, if we dump Gordon, and he goes on to have a Chris Carter level career- you're going to be seriously kicking yourself in the ass. & if he flames out- very little lost. (my take)
Cris didn't get suspended 6 different times by teams rolling the dice on him - do you really need me to remind you of this? In fact, what did Cris Carter himself recommend/say we should do about Gordon? You carefully remained shy of reminding us what Cris had to say about Josh.
Today, I can only go by a lack of priority that didn't give a shit when he joined a 6-4 team in progress before he got re-suspended because the football career wasn't as important to him a 1 or 2 beers on a plane ride he was told would have a drug test awaiting him just after he landed in the airport. Exactly, where are you seeing a re-prioritized Cris Carter here?
Why don't you go read my post earlier in this thread before you keep describing this fictional WR we haven't seen here since 2013. It's 2016 today my man. We're exactly where Cris Carter thought we'd be 1 more suspension away from permanent game over. Then what Larry? Celebrate another year of not drafting guys on the perimeter so you can say we're only parting with an inexpensive #1 WR? We're also giving up our #2 WR that came up huge for us so it feels like our foundation is quick sand in alligator alley here with eh WR Corps.
-
I'm with you Tour, Flugs knows where I stand on the Gordon issue. He's going to cost us around 25% of what I"d guess Benji is asking. Near zero risk if he flames out. His salary is going to be the equivalent of our second round pick. I'll take Gordon over any wr that we could snag @ #32. Plus trading Josh won't net us doggie doo-doo. Say around what the Raiders got for Randy Moss.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/josh-gordon/
He's taken up painting, no news is good news. Been clean for a year. Supposedly motivated and in great shape. Johnny couldn't stay out of a bar for two weeks after rehab. I do wonder if all of Josh's drug tests while suspended count towards the new "The slate gets wiped clean after two years." If Miller could do it- hope Josh can do the same.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/4a02842a9dc64fe89bdd767e34a1b8be/miller-no-longer-nfls-drug-program
Yeah, good thing Josh didn't cost us that much in 2015 while we were already guaranteeing 9 million $ to a WR who played his last good football in 2011 Larry. We wouldn't have had to pay a first round WR nearly that much cake so imagine how much less we'd have to pay a WR in the upper part of round 2 in today's rookie salary caps.
What a favor Josh did us being unavailable all because he couldn't refrain from drinking alcohol on a plane ride he was informed he'd be drug tested at the end of it. You go on reminding me why I should believe in that level of intellect as we take inventory on how many times he's been able to wear the uniform the last 2 seasons. I count 5. Upon his return, we went 1-4 after starting the year 6-4 in the perfect opportunity to show us something better than not knowing the plays, quitting on routes when he wasn't the primary WR and being tardy/late to a meeting all other teammates made on time.
Just like the 2014 draft, they can always wait until 2 days after we draft a first round QB to inform those fans spiking our season ticket sales over a 24-48 hour period - our #1 WR has failed another drug test. We're probably not going to get official word on whether he's been clean or not until we hear whether or not his application for reinstatement has been accepted and approved or denied. I can think of easier things to bet on like not needing to worry about such a thing with Travis Benjamin per say when we were allegedly so close to re-signing him only to leave it nitpick shy of lassoing the yes tag.
As it stands, the guy who's gears opened up underneath routes for others in 2015 was the guy we're about to give up (Benjamin). In essence a guy arriving at keeper football status has been trained up to benefit another team while he enters his best football via hard work,commitment and prioritizing football? Makes perfect sense on how to invest in a player you've invested 4 years on.
As it stands, the guy who's gears opened up underneath routesfor others in 2015 was the guy we're about to give up 9Benjamin). In essence a guy arriving at keeper football status has been trained up to benefit another team while he enter his best football via hard work?Makes perfect sense on how to invest in a player you've invested 4 years on.Hey, I've never said we shouldn't resign Benjamin- he'd be a great #2 next to Josh. But get real. Benji may be as fast as Gordon- but he's a twig in comparison. 5" and 40 pounds says so. Travis is not, and will never be a true #1 WR- and if (we don't know the details) is asking #1 WR money, the Browns were wise to tell him to go out and find what he's worth on the open market. I'd suggest you take a look-see at what NFL.com considers his worth- about #50 or so on the FA scale.
As Tour said, you can also blame Ray the Farmer letting Ward and a few others walk because he was clueless.
I'll just leave it at that. You may want him gone- I don't. We've been patient until now- it's not exactly time to give up- let's see how this is going to play out.
PS, if Josh wasn't re-prioritized, we'd already have heard reports of him sitting on the porch with Justin Blackmon knocking back beers- or hanging out with Johnny in Cabo partying his ass off.
-
As it stands, the guy who's gears opened up underneath routesfor others in 2015 was the guy we're about to give up 9Benjamin). In essence a guy arriving at keeper football status has been trained up to benefit another team while he enter his best football via hard work?Makes perfect sense on how to invest in a player you've invested 4 years on.
Hey, I've never said we shouldn't resign Benjamin- he'd be a great #2 next to Josh. But get real. Benji may be as fast as Gordon- but he's a twig in comparison. 5" and 40 pounds says so. Travis is not, and will never be a true #1 WR- and if (we don't know the details) is asking #1 WR money, the Browns were wise to tell him to go out and find what he's worth on the open market. I'd suggest you take a look-see at what NFL.com considers his worth- about #50 or so on the FA scale.
As Tour said, you can also blame Ray the Farmer letting Ward and a few others walk because he was clueless.
I'll just leave it at that. You may want him gone- I don't. We've been patient until now- it's not exactly time to give up- let's see how this is going to play out.
PS, if Josh wasn't re-prioritized, we'd already have heard reports of him sitting on the porch with Justin Blackmon knocking back beers- or hanging out with Johnny in Cabo partying his ass off.
Hey, I've never said we shouldn't resign Benjamin- he'd be a great #2 next to Josh. But get real. Benji may be as fast as Gordon- but he's a twig in comparison. 5" and 40 pounds says so. Travis is not, and will never be a true #1 WR- and if (we don't know the details) is asking #1 WR money, the Browns were wise to tell him to go out and find what he's worth on the open market. I'd suggest you take a look-see at what NFL.com considers his worth- about #50 or so on the FA scale.
As Tour said, you can also blame Ray the Farmer letting Ward and a few others walk because he was clueless.
I'll just leave it at that. You may want him gone- I don't. We've been patient until now- it's not exactly time to give up- let's see how this is going to play out.
PS, if Josh wasn't re-prioritized, we'd already have heard reports of him sitting on the porch with Justin Blackmon knocking back beers- or hanging out with Johnny in Cabo partying his ass off.
I wish I could say I still believed he was really remorseful with you Larry. I used to. Shame on me if I buy it again. Guys in denial of a problem are really good at lying to people. You're a loyal dude so you want to believe him.
Today, Josh Gordon is still officially suspended and we're letting the guy we can rely on go. It should have never come down to keeping 1 or the other. Ideally, we should have had both of them lining up on the opposite side of the formation prioritizing the opportunity this franchise has given them to date. One guy gave a football first commitment the other hasn't since 2013 you seem to be stuck on pause with. Did you watch any of Gordon's games in 2014? That's where I began to doubt his sincerity of remorse and commitment thereafter and rightfully so. It wasn't too much later he got suspended again for an entire year this time after he got a lucky break cutting his last full year suspension short by 6 games.
Ray Farmer has zero to do with why Josh couldn't refrain from drinking alcohol on a plane ride he knew he'd get tested at the end of it. That shows me a guy incapable of learning from the past and an inability to prioritize his football career up against what was at stake for not being strong enough to resist 1-3 drinks. Ray Farmer has nothing to do with why Gordon has only 1 strike left before. If anything, he's shown Gordon he continued to believe in him to a fault.
You brought up Cris Carter so here's his opinion about where Josh continues to be summed up in this subject heading about it - "Cris Carter says the Browns need to release Josh Gordon to save him" By Maggie Hendricks July 7, 2014 2:16 pm ET
-
The cupboards are not bare due to Gordon. To my knowledge Gordon has never been our GM. The most recent fellow to sit in that chair did not believe in the value of WRs... and clearly, based upon the big, FA signing during his tenure, he did not know how to evaluate the position either.
With the above eliminated what is HUGE about the gamble? Certainly not JG's compensation which is still under his rookie contract.
This is where we part ways. Another failure is simply not inevitable...
Nobody in this thread said Gordon was the GM. Both Mike and me were saying there's been a trend of reluctance to even consider a #1 WR in the draft all the while Gordon has been here occupying the plan as #1 WR on the roster. This began before Farmer took over.
As for Gordon's sum of dumb serial trend of him letting down the team that gave him a shot beginning at Baylor, here's an extract of his history of suspensions reminding us things have yet to change in spite of all the chances. I've always been a big fan of giving people 2nd chances and even 3rd strikes. Let's have a look and determine exactly where his preference to partying over football differs from Manziel, not to be confused with who's the nicer kid:
Strike 1: Gordon accepted an athletic scholarship to play football for Baylor University. However, in October 2010, during his sophomore year, he and teammate Willie Jefferson were found asleep at a local Taco Bell. Police found marijuana in Jefferson's car. Jefferson, who was driving, was kicked off the team due to it being his second violation, but Gordon was only suspended.[10][11]
Strike 2: In July 2011, Gordon was suspended indefinitely by head coach Art Briles, for later failing a drug test and testing positive for marijuana.[10][11]
In August 2011, Gordon transferred to Utah, where he sat out the 2011 season declaring too late for the 2011 Supplemental Draft.[10][11]
Strike 3: On June 7, 2013, the NFL announced that Gordon would be suspended for the first two games of the 2013 season due to violating the NFL's substance-abuse policy.[19]
Strike 4: On August 27, 2014, Gordon acknowledged that the NFL suspended him for one year for violating the league's substance-abuse policy.[20] On September 19, 2014, his suspension was reduced to 10 games amidst the new NFL drug policy. Gordon was officially reinstated on November 17.[21]
Strike 5: On December 27, 2014, exactly one year removed from being selected into the Pro Bowl, the Browns suspended Gordon from the final game of the 2014 season due to a violation of team rules.[22]
Strike 6: As of January 2015, Gordon faced another year-long suspension due to testing positive for alcohol use.[23] Gordon entered the NFL's substance abuse program after pleading guilty to a driving while impaired charge in September 2014 and was prohibited from consuming alcohol during his time in the program.[24] Gordon was officially suspended for one year on February 3, 2015 and won't be able to return until the start of the 2016 season.[25]
On January 20, 2016, Gordon applied to the league for reinstatement.[26]
We're not exactly dealing with the brightest apple in the orchard here. So, what happens the next time he gets suspended besides us celebrating how much money we saved on our #1 WR spot here in Cleveland? What part shows us someone that learns from his mistakes? I already accepted his lies when he showed up telling us he's learned his lessons in college and each time he's let us down here. I did it more than 3 times if I count believing we would see the very best version of him when he returned in 2014. He's been here for 4 years and only made it 1 season without a suspension. As Mike said, I wish he gave us more to believe in than where we are at with him today.
-
I dont care how many bad picks Gordon has made.....he our best receiver by a thousand miles.....line him up and play him.
-
I dont care how many bad picks Gordon has made.....he our best receiver by a thousand miles.....line him up and play him.
-
+1
I'm all for spending money but the Bowe's & Hartlines of the world can seek life elsewhere
I do not at all link Hartline in the same sentence with that $Mil/catch other player. Hartline gave us his best efforts.
-
Tom & I are on the same page here & that is that Gordon can't be counted upon to be there & not fall into past behaviors. If he is approved to return, has no setbacks, & is productive, then fine, but I have to see it before I believe it. Keep in mind that, in our last 32 games, Josh has played in 5 games in which we were 1-4, he obviously hadn't studied the playbook (or comprehended it), & took plays off when he wasn't the primary receiver. Wow, his value was so OBVIOUS! Sorry, but Tom laid out Gordon's previous strikes, so excuse us about our lack of excitement for his return.
I'm done with the conversations about Josh Gordon. We can agree to disagree & We'll see what happens.
BTW, if you chose to use my statements in your argument, please quote me in full so as not to falsify what I clearly stated.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
+1
I'm all for spending money but the Bowe's & Hartlines of the world can seek life elsewhere
I do not at all link Hartline in the same sentence with that $Mil/catch other player. Hartline gave us his best efforts.
I do not at all link Hartline in the same sentence with that $Mil/catch other player. Hartline gave us his best efforts.
But it was unnecessary spending. Effort is great and all but last I checked there are no participation awards in the NFL.
-
I dont care how many bad picks Gordon has made.....he our best receiver by a thousand miles.....line him up and play him.
I dont care how many bad picks Gordon has made.....he our best receiver by a thousand miles.....line him up and play him.
^+1.
Tom & I are on the same page here & that is that Gordon can't be counted upon to be there & not fall into past behaviors. If he is approved to return, has no setbacks, & is productive, then fine, but I have to see it before I believe it. Keep in mind that, in our last 32 games, Josh has played in 5 games in which we were 1-4, he obviously hadn't studied the playbook (or comprehended it), & took plays off when he wasn't the primary receiver. Wow, his value was so OBVIOUS! Sorry, but Tom laid out Gordon's previous strikes, so excuse us about our lack of excitement for his return.
I'm done with the conversations about Josh Gordon. We can agree to disagree & We'll see what happens.
BTW, if you chose to use my statements in your argument, please quote me in full so as not to falsify what I clearly stated.
Mike
Did I ever say Gordon can be counted on to not screw up again? Our drug counselor Ag says the odds are 50\50. OK, I think those odds are pretty realistic. What I am saying is (assuming he gets reinstated) Gordon is worth FAR more to the Browns than anything we might get in a (realistic) trade. Even if he does screw up again. Yeah- if Jerrah comes calling with his #4 overall, and Rolando McClain- hey, I'm all for it. There's your crack pipe deal. If you want to tell me Josh isn't even worth a 4th rounder- the same as Randy Moss (that's the likely reality) I say- that's nuts. -
I dont care how many bad picks Gordon has made.....he our best receiver by a thousand miles.....line him up and play him.
^+1.
Tom & I are on the same page here & that is that Gordon can't be counted upon to be there & not fall into past behaviors. If he is approved to return, has no setbacks, & is productive, then fine, but I have to see it before I believe it. Keep in mind that, in our last 32 games, Josh has played in 5 games in which we were 1-4, he obviously hadn't studied the playbook (or comprehended it), & took plays off when he wasn't the primary receiver. Wow, his value was so OBVIOUS! Sorry, but Tom laid out Gordon's previous strikes, so excuse us about our lack of excitement for his return.
I'm done with the conversations about Josh Gordon. We can agree to disagree & We'll see what happens.
BTW, if you chose to use my statements in your argument, please quote me in full so as not to falsify what I clearly stated.
Mike
Did I ever say Gordon can be counted on to not screw up again? Our drug counselor Ag says the odds are 50\50. OK, I think those odds are pretty realistic. What I am saying is (assuming he gets reinstated) Gordon is worth FAR more to the Browns than anything we might get in a (realistic) trade. Even if he does screw up again. Yeah- if Jerrah comes calling with his #4 overall, and Rolando McClain- hey, I'm all for it. There's your crack pipe deal. If you want to tell me Josh isn't even worth a 4th rounder- the same as Randy Moss (that's the likely reality) I say- that's nuts.^+1.
Did I ever say Gordon can be counted on to not screw up again? Our drug counselor Ag says the odds are 50\50.Actually I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night so I'd say that qualifies the opinion, right?
In real life I was a counselor who made sure clients who needed it started with substance abuse counseling before I tried to work with them individually. Counseling is useless if they continue to use. Biggest battle first---sobriety.
-
Tom & I are on the same page here & that is that Gordon can't be counted upon to be there & not fall into past behaviors. If he is approved to return, has no setbacks, & is productive, then fine, but I have to see it before I believe it. Keep in mind that, in our last 32 games, Josh has played in 5 games in which we were 1-4, he obviously hadn't studied the playbook (or comprehended it), & took plays off when he wasn't the primary receiver. Wow, his value was so OBVIOUS! Sorry, but Tom laid out Gordon's previous strikes, so excuse us about our lack of excitement for his return.
I'm done with the conversations about Josh Gordon. We can agree to disagree & We'll see what happens.
BTW, if you chose to use my statements in your argument, please quote me in full so as not to falsify what I clearly stated.
Mike
Tom & I are on the same page here & that is that Gordon can't be counted upon to be there & not fall into past behaviors. If he is approved to return, has no setbacks, & is productive, then fine, but I have to see it before I believe it. Keep in mind that, in our last 32 games, Josh has played in 5 games in which we were 1-4, he obviously hadn't studied the playbook (or comprehended it), & took plays off when he wasn't the primary receiver. Wow, his value was so OBVIOUS! Sorry, but Tom laid out Gordon's previous strikes, so excuse us about our lack of excitement for his return.
I'm done with the conversations about Josh Gordon. We can agree to disagree & We'll see what happens.
BTW, if you chose to use my statements in your argument, please quote me in full so as not to falsify what I clearly stated.
Mike
Thanks Mike. Very well said.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login