Browns have $42.368m in cap space
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I dont care how many bad picks Gordon has made.....he our best receiver by a thousand miles.....line him up and play him.
I dont care how many bad picks Gordon has made.....he our best receiver by a thousand miles.....line him up and play him.
^+1.
Tom & I are on the same page here & that is that Gordon can't be counted upon to be there & not fall into past behaviors. If he is approved to return, has no setbacks, & is productive, then fine, but I have to see it before I believe it. Keep in mind that, in our last 32 games, Josh has played in 5 games in which we were 1-4, he obviously hadn't studied the playbook (or comprehended it), & took plays off when he wasn't the primary receiver. Wow, his value was so OBVIOUS! Sorry, but Tom laid out Gordon's previous strikes, so excuse us about our lack of excitement for his return.
I'm done with the conversations about Josh Gordon. We can agree to disagree & We'll see what happens.
BTW, if you chose to use my statements in your argument, please quote me in full so as not to falsify what I clearly stated.
Mike
Did I ever say Gordon can be counted on to not screw up again? Our drug counselor Ag says the odds are 50\50. OK, I think those odds are pretty realistic. What I am saying is (assuming he gets reinstated) Gordon is worth FAR more to the Browns than anything we might get in a (realistic) trade. Even if he does screw up again. Yeah- if Jerrah comes calling with his #4 overall, and Rolando McClain- hey, I'm all for it. There's your crack pipe deal. If you want to tell me Josh isn't even worth a 4th rounder- the same as Randy Moss (that's the likely reality) I say- that's nuts. -
I dont care how many bad picks Gordon has made.....he our best receiver by a thousand miles.....line him up and play him.
^+1.
Tom & I are on the same page here & that is that Gordon can't be counted upon to be there & not fall into past behaviors. If he is approved to return, has no setbacks, & is productive, then fine, but I have to see it before I believe it. Keep in mind that, in our last 32 games, Josh has played in 5 games in which we were 1-4, he obviously hadn't studied the playbook (or comprehended it), & took plays off when he wasn't the primary receiver. Wow, his value was so OBVIOUS! Sorry, but Tom laid out Gordon's previous strikes, so excuse us about our lack of excitement for his return.
I'm done with the conversations about Josh Gordon. We can agree to disagree & We'll see what happens.
BTW, if you chose to use my statements in your argument, please quote me in full so as not to falsify what I clearly stated.
Mike
Did I ever say Gordon can be counted on to not screw up again? Our drug counselor Ag says the odds are 50\50. OK, I think those odds are pretty realistic. What I am saying is (assuming he gets reinstated) Gordon is worth FAR more to the Browns than anything we might get in a (realistic) trade. Even if he does screw up again. Yeah- if Jerrah comes calling with his #4 overall, and Rolando McClain- hey, I'm all for it. There's your crack pipe deal. If you want to tell me Josh isn't even worth a 4th rounder- the same as Randy Moss (that's the likely reality) I say- that's nuts.^+1.
Did I ever say Gordon can be counted on to not screw up again? Our drug counselor Ag says the odds are 50\50.Actually I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night so I'd say that qualifies the opinion, right?
In real life I was a counselor who made sure clients who needed it started with substance abuse counseling before I tried to work with them individually. Counseling is useless if they continue to use. Biggest battle first---sobriety.
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Tom & I are on the same page here & that is that Gordon can't be counted upon to be there & not fall into past behaviors. If he is approved to return, has no setbacks, & is productive, then fine, but I have to see it before I believe it. Keep in mind that, in our last 32 games, Josh has played in 5 games in which we were 1-4, he obviously hadn't studied the playbook (or comprehended it), & took plays off when he wasn't the primary receiver. Wow, his value was so OBVIOUS! Sorry, but Tom laid out Gordon's previous strikes, so excuse us about our lack of excitement for his return.
I'm done with the conversations about Josh Gordon. We can agree to disagree & We'll see what happens.
BTW, if you chose to use my statements in your argument, please quote me in full so as not to falsify what I clearly stated.
Mike
Tom & I are on the same page here & that is that Gordon can't be counted upon to be there & not fall into past behaviors. If he is approved to return, has no setbacks, & is productive, then fine, but I have to see it before I believe it. Keep in mind that, in our last 32 games, Josh has played in 5 games in which we were 1-4, he obviously hadn't studied the playbook (or comprehended it), & took plays off when he wasn't the primary receiver. Wow, his value was so OBVIOUS! Sorry, but Tom laid out Gordon's previous strikes, so excuse us about our lack of excitement for his return.
I'm done with the conversations about Josh Gordon. We can agree to disagree & We'll see what happens.
BTW, if you chose to use my statements in your argument, please quote me in full so as not to falsify what I clearly stated.
Mike
Thanks Mike. Very well said.
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I dont care how many bad picks Gordon has made.....he our best receiver by a thousand miles.....line him up and play him.
^+1.
Tom & I are on the same page here & that is that Gordon can't be counted upon to be there & not fall into past behaviors. If he is approved to return, has no setbacks, & is productive, then fine, but I have to see it before I believe it. Keep in mind that, in our last 32 games, Josh has played in 5 games in which we were 1-4, he obviously hadn't studied the playbook (or comprehended it), & took plays off when he wasn't the primary receiver. Wow, his value was so OBVIOUS! Sorry, but Tom laid out Gordon's previous strikes, so excuse us about our lack of excitement for his return.
I'm done with the conversations about Josh Gordon. We can agree to disagree & We'll see what happens.
BTW, if you chose to use my statements in your argument, please quote me in full so as not to falsify what I clearly stated.
Mike
Did I ever say Gordon can be counted on to not screw up again? Our drug counselor Ag says the odds are 50\50. OK, I think those odds are pretty realistic. What I am saying is (assuming he gets reinstated) Gordon is worth FAR more to the Browns than anything we might get in a (realistic) trade. Even if he does screw up again. Yeah- if Jerrah comes calling with his #4 overall, and Rolando McClain- hey, I'm all for it. There's your crack pipe deal. If you want to tell me Josh isn't even worth a 4th rounder- the same as Randy Moss (that's the likely reality) I say- that's nuts.^+1.
Did I ever say Gordon can be counted on to not screw up again? Our drug counselor Ag says the odds are 50\50. OK, I think those odds are pretty realistic. What I am saying is (assuming he gets reinstated) Gordon is worth FAR more to the Browns than anything we might get in a (realistic) trade. Even if he does screw up again. Yeah- if Jerrah comes calling with his #4 overall, and Rolando McClain- hey, I'm all for it. There's your crack pipe deal. If you want to tell me Josh isn't even worth a 4th rounder- the same as Randy Moss (that's the likely reality) I say- that's nuts.If he screws up again Larry it's good night career on a guy we've handed unchallenged tenure to. You were cautioning me about the next Cris Carter story might unfold in the midst of Gordon being suspended for 27 of our last 32 games. Just out of curiosity, how much did a guy blowing off routes and not caring to know the playbook look like he was prioritizing football over partying? Anyone think teammates couldn't recognize his lack of passion when he joined a 6-4 team in progress that would finish 1-5 after his suspension was cut short?
This is the guy with tenure on our #1 WR position since 2013. In the 5 football games he's played in the last 2 years, we've won 1 of them. In his dream season of 2013, he was only suspended 2 games in - we went 4-12 and fired the offensive coaching staff.
He's been on this franchise for 4 years and the only time we won as many as 7 games, 6 of those wins came without Gordon. As Josh has come down to the final strike of his football career - Cris Carter was right that keeping the guy and pretending none of this has ever been his fault at all has done Gordon no favors. I never wanted any of this to happen but there comes a point when I have to stop feeling sorry for a guy who's actions speak louder than his empty promises. He may be a nicer kid than Manziel; but partying more than Ray Farmer ruined both football careers in Cleveland regardless of how inconvenient some people in this thread find that reality.
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^+1.
Did I ever say Gordon can be counted on to not screw up again? Our drug counselor Ag says the odds are 50\50. OK, I think those odds are pretty realistic. What I am saying is (assuming he gets reinstated) Gordon is worth FAR more to the Browns than anything we might get in a (realistic) trade. Even if he does screw up again. Yeah- if Jerrah comes calling with his #4 overall, and Rolando McClain- hey, I'm all for it. There's your crack pipe deal. If you want to tell me Josh isn't even worth a 4th rounder- the same as Randy Moss (that's the likely reality) I say- that's nuts.If he screws up again Larry it's good night career on a guy we've handed unchallenged tenure to. You were cautioning me about the next Cris Carter story might unfold in the midst of Gordon being suspended for 27 of our last 32 games. Just out of curiosity, how much did a guy blowing off routes and not caring to know the playbook look like he was prioritizing football over partying? Anyone think teammates couldn't recognize his lack of passion when he joined a 6-4 team in progress that would finish 1-5 after his suspension was cut short?
This is the guy with tenure on our #1 WR position since 2013. In the 5 football games he's played in the last 2 years, we've won 1 of them. In his dream season of 2013, he was only suspended 2 games in - we went 4-12 and fired the offensive coaching staff.
He's been on this franchise for 4 years and the only time we won as many as 7 games, 6 of those wins came without Gordon. As Josh has come down to the final strike of his football career - Cris Carter was right that keeping the guy and pretending none of this has ever been his fault at all has done Gordon no favors. I never wanted any of this to happen but there comes a point when I have to stop feeling sorry for a guy who's actions speak louder than his empty promises. He may be a nicer kid than Manziel; but partying more than Ray Farmer ruined both football careers in Cleveland regardless of how inconvenient some people in this thread find that reality.
He's been on this franchise for 4 years and the only time we won as many as 7 games, 6 of those wins came without Gordon. As Josh has come down to the final strike of his football career - Cris Carter was right that keeping the guy and pretending none of this has ever been his fault at all has done Gordon no favors. I never wanted any of this to happen but there comes a point when I have to stop feeling sorry for a guy who's actions speak louder than his empty promises. He may be a nicer kid than Manziel; but partying more than Ray Farmer ruined both football careers in Cleveland regardless of how inconvenient some people in this thread find that reality.Har- so Farmer was right wrs don't matter. W-L don't matter. You're not listening. Gordon may only be a year away from getting the slate wiped clean. Or you forget that one?
I don't feel sorry for Josh- if you want to know. You didn't answer MY question Tom- is Gordon worth more than a fourth round pick- yes or no.
MHO- you're over rating Benjamin- here's the NFL.com opinion http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000637939/article/2016-free-agency-top-99-available-players
Also underrating Gordon. You're just ranting on past transgressions. That's your prerogative.
So Flash will have a 1,000 yard season (barring injury) - bottle of $20 buck cab vs a case of your favorite beer- up for the challenge?
So maybe we value Benji as more than a slot receiver. We're paying Hawkins a piddly $1 million this year. Punt returners that can run 4.3s are a dime a dozen- to paraphrase Ghoolie. If he wants more than Hartline's $4 million- sorry you're replaceable. Will Fuller runs 4.3 at the combine.
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Great stuff on Gordo & Benji fellas. I think we can all agree, with the look of that slim WR crop at combine. We cannot lose both these guys in talent. Combined with losing any OL talent at same time. Maybe the league did Gordo a huge favor giving him a year on a couple beers with that ugly history. Got to trust Hue on who's coachable at some point.
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He's been on this franchise for 4 years and the only time we won as many as 7 games, 6 of those wins came without Gordon. As Josh has come down to the final strike of his football career - Cris Carter was right that keeping the guy and pretending none of this has ever been his fault at all has done Gordon no favors. I never wanted any of this to happen but there comes a point when I have to stop feeling sorry for a guy who's actions speak louder than his empty promises. He may be a nicer kid than Manziel; but partying more than Ray Farmer ruined both football careers in Cleveland regardless of how inconvenient some people in this thread find that reality.
Har- so Farmer was right wrs don't matter. W-L don't matter. You're not listening. Gordon may only be a year away from getting the slate wiped clean. Or you forget that one?
I don't feel sorry for Josh- if you want to know. You didn't answer MY question Tom- is Gordon worth more than a fourth round pick- yes or no.
MHO- you're over rating Benjamin- here's the NFL.com opinion http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000637939/article/2016-free-agency-top-99-available-players
Also underrating Gordon. You're just ranting on past transgressions. That's your prerogative.
So Flash will have a 1,000 yard season (barring injury) - bottle of $20 buck cab vs a case of your favorite beer- up for the challenge?
So maybe we value Benji as more than a slot receiver. We're paying Hawkins a piddly $1 million this year. Punt returners that can run 4.3s are a dime a dozen- to paraphrase Ghoolie. If he wants more than Hartline's $4 million- sorry you're replaceable. Will Fuller runs 4.3 at the combine.
Har- so Farmer was right wrs don't matter. W-L don't matter. You're not listening. Gordon may only be a year away from getting the slate wiped clean. Or you forget that one?
I don't feel sorry for Josh- if you want to know. You didn't answer MY question Tom- is Gordon worth more than a fourth round pick- yes or no.
MHO- you're over rating Benjamin- here's the NFL.com opinion http://51. Travis Benjamin, Cleveland Browns wide receiver: Coming off a career year, Benjamin may find out that NFL teams refuse to pay for undersized slot receivers.
Also underrating Gordon. You're just ranting on past transgressions. That's your prerogative.
So Flash will have a 1,000 yard season (barring injury) - bottle of $20 buck cab vs a case of your favorite beer- up for the challenge?
So maybe we value Benji as more than a slot receiver. We're paying Hawkins a piddly $1 million this year. Punt returners that can run 4.3s are a dime a dozen- to paraphrase Ghoolie. If he wants more than Hartline's $4 million- sorry you're replaceable. Will Fuller runs 4.3 at the combine.
There was an article someone shared a week or so ago that Hartline probably won't be back.
If Gordon is not worth more than a 4th round pick Larry - put the pom poms down and understand why. He's been suspended 27 of our last 32 games. In the 5 games he played - we went 1-4 with him quitting on routes and not knowing the play book. We were 6-4 before that.
Boarding the plane knowing there would be a drug test at the end of the ride, Gordon drank alcohol anyway and failed the test to complete the following hat trick: 2013 suspended 2 games, 2014 suspended 16 games reduced to 10 (but suspended by team), 2015 suspended 16 games. Did Cris Carter make an accurate prediction? Thank you for bringing him up regardless of how sorry that makes you now.
Party animals aren't good with the truth. Manziel and Gordon haven't stopped lying to us yet. I've learned the hard way with both guys. You can hold your breath again all you want. I'm done counting on him for anything. History hasn't lied to us yet but Gordon has lied to us frequently. And you want to bet on Gordon and give me history? I'll take history.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
My attitude is we need to count on Gordon as long as he allows us to count on him.
I don't mind signing Benji, but I would rather take the money we are talking about with him and throw it on top of what we are talking about with Schwartz or Mack first.
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Har- so Farmer was right wrs don't matter. W-L don't matter. You're not listening. Gordon may only be a year away from getting the slate wiped clean. Or you forget that one?
I don't feel sorry for Josh- if you want to know. You didn't answer MY question Tom- is Gordon worth more than a fourth round pick- yes or no.
MHO- you're over rating Benjamin- here's the NFL.com opinion http://51. Travis Benjamin, Cleveland Browns wide receiver: Coming off a career year, Benjamin may find out that NFL teams refuse to pay for undersized slot receivers.
Also underrating Gordon. You're just ranting on past transgressions. That's your prerogative.
So Flash will have a 1,000 yard season (barring injury) - bottle of $20 buck cab vs a case of your favorite beer- up for the challenge?
So maybe we value Benji as more than a slot receiver. We're paying Hawkins a piddly $1 million this year. Punt returners that can run 4.3s are a dime a dozen- to paraphrase Ghoolie. If he wants more than Hartline's $4 million- sorry you're replaceable. Will Fuller runs 4.3 at the combine.
There was an article someone shared a week or so ago that Hartline probably won't be back.
If Gordon is not worth more than a 4th round pick Larry - put the pom poms down and understand why. He's been suspended 27 of our last 32 games. In the 5 games he played - we went 1-4 with him quitting on routes and not knowing the play book. We were 6-4 before that.
Boarding the plane knowing there would be a drug test at the end of the ride, Gordon drank alcohol anyway and failed the test to complete the following hat trick: 2013 suspended 2 games, 2014 suspended 16 games reduced to 10 (but suspended by team), 2015 suspended 16 games. Did Cris Carter make an accurate prediction? Thank you for bringing him up regardless of how sorry that makes you now.
Party animals aren't good with the truth. Manziel and Gordon haven't stopped lying to us yet. I've learned the hard way with both guys. You can hold your breath again all you want. I'm done counting on him for anything. History hasn't lied to us yet but Gordon has lied to us frequently. And you want to bet on Gordon and give me history? I'll take history.
Party animals aren't good with the truth. Manziel and Gordon haven't stopped lying to us yet.
Lumping these two together makes your argument weaker, not stronger.
And you really need to cite sources for statements that are contrary to Josh's account, if you label him a liar. For instance drinking on a flight knowing what awaited him on the other end.
"Upon landing, I received the all-too-familiar notice by phone that I was to report to a testing location within four hours. I failed the test, obviously, and the rest is history ..."
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/josh_gordon_confirms_his_indef.html
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Party animals aren't good with the truth. Manziel and Gordon haven't stopped lying to us yet.
Lumping these two together makes your argument weaker, not stronger.
And you really need to cite sources for statements that are contrary to Josh's account, if you label him a liar. For instance drinking on a flight knowing what awaited him on the other end.
"Upon landing, I received the all-too-familiar notice by phone that I was to report to a testing location within four hours. I failed the test, obviously, and the rest is history ..."
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/josh_gordon_confirms_his_indef.html
Lumping these two together makes your argument weaker, not stronger.
And you really need to cite sources for statements that are contrary to Josh's account, if you label him a liar. For instance drinking on a flight knowing what awaited him on the other end.
"Upon landing, I received the all-too-familiar notice by phone that I was to report to a testing location within four hours. I failed the test, obviously, and the rest is history ..."
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/josh_gordon_confirms_his_indef.html
I agree with the above. I think Tom has it wrong about the drinking on the plane. Gordon did know he could be tested at any time, but- according to him, he thought (wrongly) when the Browns season was over, it was OK to have a few. That doesn't excuse him from the DWI.
Oh- Mr Flugel- sure, let's trade Josh for a fourth rounder as you suggest. Easy, we'll just pull a Martavis Bryant out of our ass like the Steelers did. The odds of getting All-Pro talent in that round are mighty small. It's why I'm sticking with Josh.
& Here's Gordon's side of the story- you can believe it or not. Sounds to me like a kid who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks- and is trying to get his life back in order.
https://thecauldron.si.com/an-open-letter-to-charles-barkley-co-cb5c4e64cf3#.dxpo9z2il
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only after being irresponsible and failing more times than Jm so far.
If he ever loved the game, it wouldn't be all his failures. He'd make
himself be disciplined and succeed.
Once he gets his money again, he could fail again, and make more excuses about
his growing up environment again....
I just don't know. Maybe this time is the "charm"...
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+1
I'm all for spending money but the Bowe's & Hartlines of the world can seek life elsewhere
I do not at all link Hartline in the same sentence with that $Mil/catch other player. Hartline gave us his best efforts.
Hartline gave his best effort AND provided a positive veteran presence in the locker room.I do not at all link Hartline in the same sentence with that $Mil/catch other player. Hartline gave us his best efforts.
Bowe was the opposite.
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Har- so Farmer was right wrs don't matter. W-L don't matter. You're not listening. Gordon may only be a year away from getting the slate wiped clean. Or you forget that one?
I don't feel sorry for Josh- if you want to know. You didn't answer MY question Tom- is Gordon worth more than a fourth round pick- yes or no.
MHO- you're over rating Benjamin- here's the NFL.com opinion http://51. Travis Benjamin, Cleveland Browns wide receiver: Coming off a career year, Benjamin may find out that NFL teams refuse to pay for undersized slot receivers.
Also underrating Gordon. You're just ranting on past transgressions. That's your prerogative.
So Flash will have a 1,000 yard season (barring injury) - bottle of $20 buck cab vs a case of your favorite beer- up for the challenge?
So maybe we value Benji as more than a slot receiver. We're paying Hawkins a piddly $1 million this year. Punt returners that can run 4.3s are a dime a dozen- to paraphrase Ghoolie. If he wants more than Hartline's $4 million- sorry you're replaceable. Will Fuller runs 4.3 at the combine.
There was an article someone shared a week or so ago that Hartline probably won't be back.
If Gordon is not worth more than a 4th round pick Larry - put the pom poms down and understand why. He's been suspended 27 of our last 32 games. In the 5 games he played - we went 1-4 with him quitting on routes and not knowing the play book. We were 6-4 before that.
Boarding the plane knowing there would be a drug test at the end of the ride, Gordon drank alcohol anyway and failed the test to complete the following hat trick: 2013 suspended 2 games, 2014 suspended 16 games reduced to 10 (but suspended by team), 2015 suspended 16 games. Did Cris Carter make an accurate prediction? Thank you for bringing him up regardless of how sorry that makes you now.
Party animals aren't good with the truth. Manziel and Gordon haven't stopped lying to us yet. I've learned the hard way with both guys. You can hold your breath again all you want. I'm done counting on him for anything. History hasn't lied to us yet but Gordon has lied to us frequently. And you want to bet on Gordon and give me history? I'll take history.
This was the biggest red flag I saw out of Josh.In the 5 games he played - we went 1-4 with him quitting on routes and not knowing the play book. We were 6-4 before that.
I'm not sure if he really wants to be in Cleveland, or he was playing like shit because Johnny Boy wasn't the QB at the time...could be be both.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
Lumping these two together makes your argument weaker, not stronger.
And you really need to cite sources for statements that are contrary to Josh's account, if you label him a liar. For instance drinking on a flight knowing what awaited him on the other end.
"Upon landing, I received the all-too-familiar notice by phone that I was to report to a testing location within four hours. I failed the test, obviously, and the rest is history ..."
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/josh_gordon_confirms_his_indef.html
I agree with the above. I think Tom has it wrong about the drinking on the plane. Gordon did know he could be tested at any time, but- according to him, he thought (wrongly) when the Browns season was over, it was OK to have a few. That doesn't excuse him from the DWI.
Oh- Mr Flugel- sure, let's trade Josh for a fourth rounder as you suggest. Easy, we'll just pull a Martavis Bryant out of our ass like the Steelers did. The odds of getting All-Pro talent in that round are mighty small. It's why I'm sticking with Josh.
& Here's Gordon's side of the story- you can believe it or not. Sounds to me like a kid who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks- and is trying to get his life back in order.
https://thecauldron.si.com/an-open-letter-to-charles-barkley-co-cb5c4e64cf3#.dxpo9z2il
I agree with the above. I think Tom has it wrong about the drinking on the plane. Gordon did know he could be tested at any time, but- according to him, he thought (wrongly) when the Browns season was over, it was OK to have a few. That doesn't excuse him from the DWI.
Oh- Mr Flugel- sure, let's trade Josh for a fourth rounder as you suggest. Easy, we'll just pull a Martavis Bryant out of our ass like the Steelers did. The odds of getting All-Pro talent in that round are mighty small. It's why I'm sticking with Josh.
& Here's Gordon's side of the story- you can believe it or not. Sounds to me like a kid who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks- and is trying to get his life back in order.
https://thecauldron.si.com/an-open-letter-to-charles-barkley-co-cb5c4e64cf3#.dxpo9z2il
Hey Rip Van Winkle, what round do you suppose the WRs picking up the slack in Cleveland in 2015 were once drafted in such as Travis Benjamin and Brian Hartline? Round 4. No different than the round we drafted Brian Brennan in. Seems like friendlier magic than those that have come out of round 2 since we got our team back. Believe it or not, we actually once had undrafted free agents named Lance Moore (career extends 2005-present) and Willie Snead (who ended up coming out of nowhere last year with some big games). You mentioned Martavis Bryant being drafted by Pitt in round 4 but they also drafted Antonio Brown in round 6 while guys like Wes Welker, Wayne Chrebet, and Victor Cruz went undrafted to the wise consumers that found them.
BTW, you were the one that first pre-determined only a 4th round trade value for Gordon before I couldn't resist replying. My #1 trade candidate for him has always been Jerruh Jones who wouldn't even think Gordon is a risk with that God Complex of his. Consequently, he's more apt to offer something higher than round 4.
If you had actually read my first post in this thread, you might have actually understood where I was coming from in a very appropriate subject heading about our cap up against how close we already were to signing Benjamin. When we drafted Travis - he was only a 4th round pick that could only run straight aheads, banana routes and drags. No evidence of change of directions, stop and go routes, curls, quick outs. All he could do was return punts/kicks. Today, he's a pretty good #2 that faced a lot of #1 corners since we never had a #1 WR and I dare say I was pleased with the results and progress. Anyone else in our WR Corps since 2012 steadily improve throughout the changes to the QBs, FO, HC, OC, and WR Coaches? I know you want to blow Gordon for how committed he's been to football but I'd rather keep guys I know will stay out of trouble, work hard to improve while they are steadily improving. And when you have a WR that can jet 4.3s - guess what opens up? Underneath and seams, how pumped do you think Gary Barnidge will be to lose Benjamin for Josh might feel like playing THIS week. So we trained up a player for 4 years that is ready for his best football ahead so we can let him go? I hope the nit picking that stopped just shy of lassoing the yes tag is worth it especially if we have to go right back to free agency only to overpay again. Hell yeah, I'm frustrated.
For the life of me, I can't understand what people think was so wonderful about Josh telling us we'd see the best version of him yet in 2014 only to see a disinterested, distracted, and unmotivated player quitting on routes,not knowing plays and getting suspended by the coaching staff for similar reasons. We were 6-4 while he was suspended and (1-4 after he returned before he got suspended again for 1 game). The guy who kept telling us he learned from his mistakes was suspended in 2013, 2014, 2015.
If that full year suspension cut short by 6 weeks in 2014 wasn't a come to Jesus, turn the corner, moment - I began to realize we're never going to see the guy we saw in 2013 again. Sure enough, he got suspended for a full year in the very next off-season. I'm not nearly as patient with him as you and others. He's played 5 football games for us since 2013; and they weren't anything special.
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I agree with the above. I think Tom has it wrong about the drinking on the plane. Gordon did know he could be tested at any time, but- according to him, he thought (wrongly) when the Browns season was over, it was OK to have a few. That doesn't excuse him from the DWI.
Oh- Mr Flugel- sure, let's trade Josh for a fourth rounder as you suggest. Easy, we'll just pull a Martavis Bryant out of our ass like the Steelers did. The odds of getting All-Pro talent in that round are mighty small. It's why I'm sticking with Josh.
& Here's Gordon's side of the story- you can believe it or not. Sounds to me like a kid who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks- and is trying to get his life back in order.
https://thecauldron.si.com/an-open-letter-to-charles-barkley-co-cb5c4e64cf3#.dxpo9z2il
Hey Rip Van Winkle, what round do you suppose the WRs picking up the slack in Cleveland in 2015 were once drafted in such as Travis Benjamin and Brian Hartline? Round 4. No different than the round we drafted Brian Brennan in. Seems like friendlier magic than those that have come out of round 2 since we got our team back. Believe it or not, we actually once had undrafted free agents named Lance Moore (career extends 2005-present) and Willie Snead (who ended up coming out of nowhere last year with some big games). You mentioned Martavis Bryant being drafted by Pitt in round 4 but they also drafted Antonio Brown in round 6 while guys like Wes Welker, Wayne Chrebet, and Victor Cruz went undrafted to the wise consumers that found them.
BTW, you were the one that first pre-determined only a 4th round trade value for Gordon before I couldn't resist replying. My #1 trade candidate for him has always been Jerruh Jones who wouldn't even think Gordon is a risk with that God Complex of his. Consequently, he's more apt to offer something higher than round 4.
If you had actually read my first post in this thread, you might have actually understood where I was coming from in a very appropriate subject heading about our cap up against how close we already were to signing Benjamin. When we drafted Travis - he was only a 4th round pick that could only run straight aheads, banana routes and drags. No evidence of change of directions, stop and go routes, curls, quick outs. All he could do was return punts/kicks. Today, he's a pretty good #2 that faced a lot of #1 corners since we never had a #1 WR and I dare say I was pleased with the results and progress. Anyone else in our WR Corps since 2012 steadily improve throughout the changes to the QBs, FO, HC, OC, and WR Coaches? I know you want to blow Gordon for how committed he's been to football but I'd rather keep guys I know will stay out of trouble, work hard to improve while they are steadily improving. And when you have a WR that can jet 4.3s - guess what opens up? Underneath and seams, how pumped do you think Gary Barnidge will be to lose Benjamin for Josh might feel like playing THIS week. So we trained up a player for 4 years that is ready for his best football ahead so we can let him go? I hope the nit picking that stopped just shy of lassoing the yes tag is worth it especially if we have to go right back to free agency only to overpay again. Hell yeah, I'm frustrated.
For the life of me, I can't understand what people think was so wonderful about Josh telling us we'd see the best version of him yet in 2014 only to see a disinterested, distracted, and unmotivated player quitting on routes,not knowing plays and getting suspended by the coaching staff for similar reasons. We were 6-4 while he was suspended and (1-4 after he returned before he got suspended again for 1 game). The guy who kept telling us he learned from his mistakes was suspended in 2013, 2014, 2015.
If that full year suspension cut short by 6 weeks in 2014 wasn't a come to Jesus, turn the corner, moment - I began to realize we're never going to see the guy we saw in 2013 again. Sure enough, he got suspended for a full year in the very next off-season. I'm not nearly as patient with him as you and others. He's played 5 football games for us since 2013; and they weren't anything special.
Hey Rip Van Winkle, what round do you suppose the WRs picking up the slack in Cleveland in 2015 were once drafted in such as Travis Benjamin and Brian Hartline? Round 4. No different than the round we drafted Brian Brennan in. Seems like friendlier magic than those that have come out of round 2 since we got our team back. Believe it or not, we actually once had undrafted free agents named Lance Moore (career extends 2005-present) and Willie Snead (who ended up coming out of nowhere last year with some big games). You mentioned Martavis Bryant being drafted by Pitt in round 4 but they also drafted Antonio Brown in round 6 while guys like Wes Welker, Wayne Chrebet, and Victor Cruz went undrafted to the wise consumers that found them.
BTW, you were the one that first pre-determined only a 4th round trade value for Gordon before I couldn't resist replying. My #1 trade candidate for him has always been Jerruh Jones who wouldn't even think Gordon is a risk with that God Complex of his. Consequently, he's more apt to offer something higher than round 4.
If you had actually read my first post in this thread, you might have actually understood where I was coming from in a very appropriate subject heading about our cap up against how close we already were to signing Benjamin. When we drafted Travis - he was only a 4th round pick that could only run straight aheads, banana routes and drags. No evidence of change of directions, stop and go routes, curls, quick outs. All he could do was return punts/kicks. Today, he's a pretty good #2 that faced a lot of #1 corners since we never had a #1 WR and I dare say I was pleased with the results and progress. Anyone else in our WR Corps since 2012 steadily improve throughout the changes to the QBs, FO, HC, OC, and WR Coaches? I know you want to blow Gordon for how committed he's been to football but I'd rather keep guys I know will stay out of trouble, work hard to improve while they are steadily improving. And when you have a WR that can jet 4.3s - guess what opens up? Underneath and seams, how pumped do you think Gary Barnidge will be to lose Benjamin for Josh might feel like playing THIS week. So we trained up a player for 4 years that is ready for his best football ahead so we can let him go? I hope the nit picking that stopped just shy of lassoing the yes tag is worth it especially if we have to go right back to free agency only to overpay again. Hell yeah, I'm frustrated.
For the life of me, I can't understand what people think was so wonderful about Josh telling us we'd see the best version of him yet in 2014 only to see a disinterested, distracted, and unmotivated player quitting on routes,not knowing plays and getting suspended by the coaching staff for similar reasons. We were 6-4 while he was suspended and (1-4 after he returned before he got suspended again for 1 game). The guy who kept telling us he learned from his mistakes was suspended in 2013, 2014, 2015.
If that full year suspension cut short by 6 weeks in 2014 wasn't a come to Jesus, turn the corner, moment - I began to realize we're never going to see the guy we saw in 2013 again. Sure enough, he got suspended for a full year in the very next off-season. I'm not nearly as patient with him as you and others. He's played 5 football games for us since 2013; and they weren't anything special.
Well said, Tom. I guess we'll just have to wait & see (and live with) what happens.
Mike
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I agree with Flugs that Gordon will probably let us down at some point. If it truly is a one strike and you're out situation, it's hard to think he'll never be "out." At the same time, I agree with others that there's basically no reason to get rid of him if a 4th or 5th is the best we can get. You might as well take the gamble at that point. I also don't think we should pay Benjamin #1 money, and I'm saying this as one of his biggest believers. It's not that I don't want to pay him because we're counting on Gordon to be our #1, it's simply that he's not worth #1 and we should get that guy in the draft or FA.
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I agree with Flugs that Gordon will probably let us down at some point. If it truly is a one strike and you're out situation, it's hard to think he'll never be "out." At the same time, I agree with others that there's basically no reason to get rid of him if a 4th or 5th is the best we can get. You might as well take the gamble at that point. I also don't think we should pay Benjamin #1 money, and I'm saying this as one of his biggest believers. It's not that I don't want to pay him because we're counting on Gordon to be our #1, it's simply that he's not worth #1 and we should get that guy in the draft or FA.
Bingo!I also don't think we should pay Benjamin #1 money, and I'm saying this as one of his biggest believers.
I'm a fan of Benji as well, but just because he was #1 on the Browns doesn't mean he's a true NFL caliber #1 WR.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
This was the biggest red flag I saw out of Josh.In the 5 games he played - we went 1-4 with him quitting on routes and not knowing the play book. We were 6-4 before that.
I'm not sure if he really wants to be in Cleveland, or he was playing like shit because Johnny Boy wasn't the QB at the time...could be be both.
This was the biggest red flag I saw out of Josh.
I'm not sure if he really wants to be in Cleveland, or he was playing like shit because Johnny Boy wasn't the QB at the time...could be be both.
Wasn't going to get into it, but I suspect the latter. The two were running together. We know that from their shared suspension for Week 17.
Sometimes messages get through... even years late. I want to see JG after a full camp with QBs who can hit him 50+ yards down the field.
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Extra cap money you say?
WSS
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Bingo!I also don't think we should pay Benjamin #1 money, and I'm saying this as one of his biggest believers.
I'm a fan of Benji as well, but just because he was #1 on the Browns doesn't mean he's a true NFL caliber #1 WR.
Bingo!
I'm a fan of Benji as well, but just because he was #1 on the Browns doesn't mean he's a true NFL caliber #1 WR.
Yup- Tom the franchise tag for WRs is going to be around $13 million. At what point do you think Benjamin is asking too much?
PS I won't debate you on Gordon anymore, it's going nowhere. I respect your points. I'll personally LMAO when Gordon tears it up this season.
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