Camp Ragland
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Would like to move down a couple spots but then yes. Hell yes.
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Would like to move down a couple spots but then yes. Hell yes.
IF he is good enough, why not at 8?
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The best MLBs the Browns have had in their history were probably the following:
Walt Michaels. Played in a few Pro Bowls in the 50s
Galen Fiss. Had I think one PB appearance in the 60s.
Mike Johnson...2 PBs
Pepper Johnson...1PB for the Browns.
Vince Costello/Mike Lucci, also in the 60s. No Pro Bowls, but played fairly well.
We have had better OLBs like Jim Houston, Chip Banks, Clay Matthews.
But the fact is, the Browns have never had a LB make the HOF....inside or outside.
We could use a stud finally, couldn't we?
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Sure, I'm OK with it. Would be great if we can trade down with the Tits and take Ragland.
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I was reading up on him. A kickass ilb? I'm good with that.
I still wonder if Dallas takes Bosa, probably just wishful thinking,
and Elliot falls to eight.
Camp Ragland is rustic enough to appeal to me.... is it close to great fishing?
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Only if we get another second to move down. Without that additional second [for a total of either 2 this year or 3 next year], no deal.
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Would like to move down a couple spots but then yes. Hell yes.
This is my take as well. At 8, Ragland is a little bit of a reach. At 15, I am great with this pick.
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Ragland is as much a Lewis as Bosa is a Watt.
Everybody is "the next somebody" until they aren't. Ragland will be good, but I don't see the sheer physical dominance from him that we saw from Lewis. Nor do I see the same unrelentless motor.
Maybe more of a London Fletcher (which is not an insult in the slightest, I love that guy).
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A young Fletcher wouldn't suck... and wouldn't suck for a very long time.
Ragland helped himself flashing some edge rush at the Sr. Bowl. And not that we couldn't use a run-stuffing ILB, but not seeing the coverage flexibility I'd want to see to take him in the top half of the 1st...
Plus there are some promising value picks at ILB on Day 3. I'm growing fond of WVU's Kwiatkoski late... fond enough that I think I can even spell his name correctly now.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
A young Fletcher wouldn't suck... and wouldn't suck for a very long time.
Ragland helped himself flashing some edge rush at the Sr. Bowl. And not that we couldn't use a run-stuffing ILB, but not seeing the coverage flexibility I'd want to see to take him in the top half of the 1st...
Plus there are some promising value picks at ILB on Day 3. I'm growing fond of WVU's Kwiatkoski late... fond enough that I think I can even spell his name correctly now.
A young Fletcher wouldn't suck... and wouldn't suck for a very long time.
Ragland helped himself flashing some edge rush at the Sr. Bowl. And not that we couldn't use a run-stuffing ILB, but not seeing the coverage flexibility I'd want to see to take him in the top half of the 1st...
Plus there are some promising value picks at ILB on Day 3. I'm growing fond of WVU's Kwiatkoski late... fond enough that I think I can even spell his name correctly now.
For a while now I have been looking at Kwiatkowski in the middle rounds. I took him for Bears in the mock draft. If the Browns get him I am AOK with that. While Davis and Kirksey are our starters, Browns need backup there better than Tank Carder.
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A young Fletcher wouldn't suck... and wouldn't suck for a very long time.
Ragland helped himself flashing some edge rush at the Sr. Bowl. And not that we couldn't use a run-stuffing ILB, but not seeing the coverage flexibility I'd want to see to take him in the top half of the 1st...
Plus there are some promising value picks at ILB on Day 3. I'm growing fond of WVU's Kwiatkoski late... fond enough that I think I can even spell his name correctly now.
A young Fletcher wouldn't suck... and wouldn't suck for a very long time.
Ragland helped himself flashing some edge rush at the Sr. Bowl. And not that we couldn't use a run-stuffing ILB, but not seeing the coverage flexibility I'd want to see to take him in the top half of the 1st...
Plus there are some promising value picks at ILB on Day 3. I'm growing fond of WVU's Kwiatkoski late... fond enough that I think I can even spell his name correctly now.
Alabama had a really stout defensive line against the run in 2015. They were achieving some outrageous results in terms of what they were yielding in yards per carry in 2015 especially down the stretch against high ranked teams. That can make it a lot easier to play LBer than it was in Cleveland in 2015. I'm not trying to say I don't think Ragland is talented but I am saying to beware some degree of false positive here especially if he's being considered as high as #8 overall.
Aside from and inclusive of bad tackling, there's 3 things we really sucked at on defense in 2015:
1) Hurrying the passer
2) Stopping the run at the point of attack
3) Covering people
If we're going defense at #8 overall, I have to believe we can do better than Ragland.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
A young Fletcher wouldn't suck... and wouldn't suck for a very long time.
Ragland helped himself flashing some edge rush at the Sr. Bowl. And not that we couldn't use a run-stuffing ILB, but not seeing the coverage flexibility I'd want to see to take him in the top half of the 1st...
Plus there are some promising value picks at ILB on Day 3. I'm growing fond of WVU's Kwiatkoski late... fond enough that I think I can even spell his name correctly now.
Alabama had a really stout defensive line against the run in 2015. They were achieving some outrageous results in terms of what they were yielding in yards per carry in 2015 especially down the stretch against high ranked teams. That can make it a lot easier to play LBer than it was in Cleveland in 2015. I'm not trying to say I don't think Ragland is talented but I am saying to beware some degree of false positive here especially if he's being considered as high as #8 overall.
Aside from and inclusive of bad tackling, there's 3 things we really sucked at on defense in 2015:
1) Hurrying the passer
2) Stopping the run at the point of attack
3) Covering people
If we're going defense at #8 overall, I have to believe we can do better than Ragland.
Alabama had a really stout defensive line against the run in 2015. They were achieving some outrageous results in terms of what they were yielding in yards per carry in 2015 especially down the stretch against high ranked teams. That can make it a lot easier to play LBer than it was in Cleveland in 2015. I'm not trying to say I don't think Ragland is talented but I am saying to beware some degree of false positive here especially if he's being considered as high as #8 overall.
Aside from and inclusive of bad tackling, there's 3 things we really sucked at on defense in 2015:
1) Hurrying the passer
2) Stopping the run at the point of attack
3) Covering people
In other words....every aspect of defense?
If we're going defense at #8 overall, I have to believe we can do better than Ragland.
Unless, of course he really is the next Ray Lewis...then 8 would be a bargain.
Remember....Ray Lewis was NOT that highly regarded when he came out. He was taken at # 26 overall.
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A young Fletcher wouldn't suck... and wouldn't suck for a very long time.
Ragland helped himself flashing some edge rush at the Sr. Bowl. And not that we couldn't use a run-stuffing ILB, but not seeing the coverage flexibility I'd want to see to take him in the top half of the 1st...
Plus there are some promising value picks at ILB on Day 3. I'm growing fond of WVU's Kwiatkoski late... fond enough that I think I can even spell his name correctly now.
Alabama had a really stout defensive line against the run in 2015. They were achieving some outrageous results in terms of what they were yielding in yards per carry in 2015 especially down the stretch against high ranked teams. That can make it a lot easier to play LBer than it was in Cleveland in 2015. I'm not trying to say I don't think Ragland is talented but I am saying to beware some degree of false positive here especially if he's being considered as high as #8 overall.
Aside from and inclusive of bad tackling, there's 3 things we really sucked at on defense in 2015:
1) Hurrying the passer
2) Stopping the run at the point of attack
3) Covering people
If we're going defense at #8 overall, I have to believe we can do better than Ragland.
If we're going defense at #8 overall, I have to believe we can do better than Ragland.
Agree... no way at 8. At 15? More palletable, but was the unstated pick I was really aiming my questions at.
My omission... my bad...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Alabama had a really stout defensive line against the run in 2015. They were achieving some outrageous results in terms of what they were yielding in yards per carry in 2015 especially down the stretch against high ranked teams. That can make it a lot easier to play LBer than it was in Cleveland in 2015. I'm not trying to say I don't think Ragland is talented but I am saying to beware some degree of false positive here especially if he's being considered as high as #8 overall.
Aside from and inclusive of bad tackling, there's 3 things we really sucked at on defense in 2015:
1) Hurrying the passer
2) Stopping the run at the point of attack
3) Covering people
In other words....every aspect of defense?
If we're going defense at #8 overall, I have to believe we can do better than Ragland.
Unless, of course he really is the next Ray Lewis...then 8 would be a bargain.
Remember....Ray Lewis was NOT that highly regarded when he came out. He was taken at # 26 overall.
Unless, of course he really is the next Ray Lewis...then 8 would be a bargain.
Remember....Ray Lewis was NOT that highly regarded when he came out. He was taken at # 26 overall.
Your argument for most picks so far has been "what if this guy is the next that guy, wouldn't it be great"?
It's great for sentiment but I'd have to hope we're picking players based off any other sort of criteria.
What if Jack is the next Lewis? What if Buckner is the next Howie?
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Alabama had a really stout defensive line against the run in 2015. They were achieving some outrageous results in terms of what they were yielding in yards per carry in 2015 especially down the stretch against high ranked teams. That can make it a lot easier to play LBer than it was in Cleveland in 2015. I'm not trying to say I don't think Ragland is talented but I am saying to beware some degree of false positive here especially if he's being considered as high as #8 overall.
Aside from and inclusive of bad tackling, there's 3 things we really sucked at on defense in 2015:
1) Hurrying the passer
2) Stopping the run at the point of attack
3) Covering people
In other words....every aspect of defense?
If we're going defense at #8 overall, I have to believe we can do better than Ragland.
Unless, of course he really is the next Ray Lewis...then 8 would be a bargain.
Remember....Ray Lewis was NOT that highly regarded when he came out. He was taken at # 26 overall.
Unless, of course he really is the next Ray Lewis...then 8 would be a bargain.
Remember....Ray Lewis was NOT that highly regarded when he came out. He was taken at # 26 overall.
Nor was Jack Lambert that highly regarded coming out so how much do we want to pedestal the cubed root of ignorance about him? It was really creepy how stupid many of the first 25 teams were in the 96 draft regarding Ray Lewis. I'm not buying the theory he just inexplicably woke up a great football player in 1996 all of a sudden. Part of that was the A+ he got on the eye ball test plus earning All American honors as early as his sophomore year continuing on through his junior year. He clearly needed a bigger challenge. The guy is a classic example of why you don't count a 40 time more than instincts and skills jumping out at you on film. Understanding that, this article appears to be a much better indicator of what kind of player he was than the type of criteria that gift wrapped him to our biggest enemy outside of Pittsburgh.
As a freshman, he was an immediate contributor and became a starter for the Hurricanes' final five games. He compiled 81 tackles, two sacks, two tackles for loss, and four pass deflections en route to being named to the freshman All-American team.
In his sophomore season, Lewis earned first-team All-American and All-Big East honors. Lewis led the Big East with 153 tackles and also contributed nine tackles for a loss, two sacks, and an interception for a Hurricanes team that had the nation's top-ranked defense and finished No. 6 in both the writers' and coaches' polls.[10]
Lewis's junior campaign was even more successful, as he was again named to the All-American[11] and All-Big East teams, and finished as runner-up for the Butkus Award, given to the top linebacker in college football.[12] Lewis finished his junior season with 160 tackles, the second highest in University of Miami team history after Ed Weisacosky's 164 in 1965. Lewis also totaled eight tackles for loss, two sacks, two interceptions, a forced fumble, four pass deflections and one touchdown. Against West Virginia University, Lewis contributed 15 tackles. Lewis led the Big East in tackles his last two seasons and accumulated the fifth most in Miami history despite playing only three seasons.
After the 1995 season, Lewis decided to forgo his final year of college eligibility and enter the NFL draft.
Ragland didn't even start as a freshman or soph so was he ready to come out after his junior year like Lewis? That would have meant his last game playing college football was watching Zeke Elliott look like he was running a 10k with the football all over his defense virtually unchallenged. One of the weaknesses listed for Ragland in 3 different draft sites/magazines is "needs to improve his instincts." That said, he is listed at 6'1" like Lewis was.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
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I'll take an instinctive, solid tackler over a "fast 40" any day.
Mike
INÂ DORSEY I TRUST -
I'll take an instinctive, solid tackler over a "fast 40" any day.
Mike
I'll take an instinctive, solid tackler over a "fast 40" any day.
Mike
That's a fair point, but you can usually get an equally instinctive, solid tackler in the third or fourth round. The middle rounds are full of instinctual utility players.
The first round isn't where you take a guy just because he's "solid". It's SUPPOSED TO be reserved for gamechanging, impact talent.
I like Ragland, he's a good player. But, if I had a choice for the Browns in the first round, I wouldn't take Ragland over Buckner, Bosa or Jack.
At 15? Absolutely. At 8? It depends on who's available.
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I'll take an instinctive, solid tackler over a "fast 40" any day.
Mike
That's a fair point, but you can usually get an equally instinctive, solid tackler in the third or fourth round. The middle rounds are full of instinctual utility players.
The first round isn't where you take a guy just because he's "solid". It's SUPPOSED TO be reserved for gamechanging, impact talent.
I like Ragland, he's a good player. But, if I had a choice for the Browns in the first round, I wouldn't take Ragland over Buckner, Bosa or Jack.
At 15? Absolutely. At 8? It depends on who's available.
That's a fair point, but you can usually get an equally instinctive, solid tackler in the third or fourth round. The middle rounds are full of instinctual utility players.
The first round isn't where you take a guy just because he's "solid". It's SUPPOSED TO be reserved for gamechanging, impact talent.
I like Ragland, he's a good player. But, if I had a choice for the Browns in the first round, I wouldn't take Ragland over Buckner, Bosa or Jack.
At 15? Absolutely. At 8? It depends on who's available.
You're right & I am excited about seeing what we end up with on Friday & Saturday. We are in the position with our #8 pick of getting a true play maker. I just have a gut feeling that our picks will be much better than in recent years.
Mike
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I'll take an instinctive, solid tackler over a "fast 40" any day.
Mike
I'll take an instinctive, solid tackler over a "fast 40" any day.
Mike
Remember when we kicked Earnest Byner out of town for the 4.3 forties of Mike Oliphant? Guess what guy would go on to the Pro Bowl and become the workhorse for a Superbowl Championship run? Earnest Saves Christmas Byner - the RB that could only run 4.65 forties. And then there's Emmitt Smith who ran about a 4.65 forty as well with only 3 Superbowl rings and an all time leading rusher crown for as long as that could hold up.
Football has always welcomed power, explosion and change of direction and it's rarely played straight ahead for 40 yards out of a sprinter stance by anybody. Now factor in how long the average play from scrimmage lasts for those wanting to emphasize the 40. On defense, I'd rather roll the dice on the ideal first step instinct of a sure tackling Tyler Matakevich in a mid round than go all in on another Bark Mingo that doesn't have a football instinct in him. Anyone ever wonder why Mingo is always victimized by overpursuit hustling back into position? Because he has the instincts of a raccoon crossing the highway at night. I feel bad saying such a thing because I actually LOVE the kid's attitude, hustle and willingness to try to play through shoulder separations/dislocations. Maybe the weight/strength gain will stop making him look like Raggedy Ann against the run. I'm just kidding, he was at least Raggedy Andy. FWIW, I've read James Harrison was already cut 3 times when he was Mingo's age before he went the usual Steeler route conforming to the lyrics "weird science" and "needles and pins." Since then, Harrison's forehead grew another 3-4 inches and his poor wife had to join a battered women's support group. Not to worry, the Pittsburgh Gazette would later portray him as a hero for donating all of the money fans contributed for his headhunting fines to the battered women's support group his wife continued to need. Reading comprehension remains every bit as overrated in Pittsburgh as it once was in Sodom and Gomorrah.
I think it was Mike Mayock cautioning people that Antonio Brown only ran a 4.58 when they were talking about the 40 times of this year's WR class at Indy. But guess what Brown does better than most? Change direction - making him no fun to match-up with. At 1 time, Jerry Rice was disappointed to hear his 40 time was inaccurately reported to be in the 4.7s with him countering he never ran over a 4.6. It doesn't matter if he only something like a 4.58 because he changed directions like Antonio Brown does plus he ran ran killer good routes. Film never lies if you watch enough. It'll show the reasons why somebody always separates on the perimeter or gets himself out of position on defense. It'll even show teams that watch film who the GOOD tacklers are and who CANNOT tackle. Who CAN catch and who CANNOT catch. We've had our team back for 17 years and I'm still typing this stuff?
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