Basic Income, No Questions Asked
-
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-05-02/a-basic-income-should-be-the-next-big-thing
The basic premise is, everyone gets some annual stipend, just for existing, to cover the basic cost of things like food and shelter. The amount talked about here - $10k - is enough to scrape by, but not enough to really have a great life.
From the liberal point of view, you go a long way to eradicating poverty, and without all the string attached to welfare qualifications. You start with $10k, you work 40 hours per week at minimum wage, say $7.50 an hour, take 5 weeks holiday (at least, that's the standard here, not sure about there?) you get an income of around $24k per year.
From the conservative point of view, it means you don't need to raise the minimum wage really at all, you don't have abuse of welfare to anywhere near the same degree (making up fake children or whatever) because all welfare programs get rolled in to this one, and as a result of that, you end up with much less government involvement, and in turn, less government.
As for where the money comes from - if you have $10k per adult, for what, 250m adults in the US? That's $2.5tn per year. According to the website below (first one returned when I googled, other sites will give slightly different numbers, but it's in the same order of magnitude), spending looks currently like this:
Social Security: $930bn
Medicare: $565bn
Medicaid: $488bn
Welfare (benefits): $383bn
Totals around $2.4bn. Throw in the VAT that the government will get back on the $10k each person spends, and this basically ends up costing less than current welfare spending.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_welfare_spending_40.html
As for the philosophy of it, I believe that this is where we will end up going in the future, though I don't know where or when. We will get to the point where most of the minimum wage jobs are automated - including food prep, factory, custodial etc - and there will be a section of the populace that is unable to find any work at all, and this would be the way to stop them from just starving.
-
I'm not sure, btw, what current social security benefits are, so I don't know if retired people would be worse or better off if this were implemented tomorrow.
Going forward, though, it means that there's not an added burden on the state when someone reaches 65 (or whatever the retirement age there is), so it's a lot easier to plan national finances.
-
I'm applying for 'early' (age 62) Social security at the end of the week, and will start collecting in October.
-
My income is made up from revenue as musician, Investments and Rental property.
Frankly I'm not quite sure how much my social security check will be but I'm waiting until I am full age.
As far as a guaranteed 10 grand a year?
I have no beef with a basic package of sustenance, but I don't see the difference between that and a combination of food stamps, housing, medical and energy subsidies we already have in place. I do think there is a myth of huge numbers of people starving in the streets like they have in third world countries.
But there is a path of least resistance that human beings, at least part of them, are happy enough with.
The ten Grand a year just makes a small change in the way subsidization of that group is accomplished.
WSS
-
My income is made up from revenue as musician, Investments and Rental property.
Frankly I'm not quite sure how much my social security check will be but I'm waiting until I am full age.
As far as a guaranteed 10 grand a year?
I have no beef with a basic package of sustenance, but I don't see the difference between that and a combination of food stamps, housing, medical and energy subsidies we already have in place. I do think there is a myth of huge numbers of people starving in the streets like they have in third world countries.
But there is a path of least resistance that human beings, at least part of them, are happy enough with.
The ten Grand a year just makes a small change in the way subsidization of that group is accomplished.
WSS
My income is made up from revenue as musician, Investments and Rental property.
Frankly I'm not quite sure how much my social security check will be but I'm waiting until I am full age.
As far as a guaranteed 10 grand a year?
I have no beef with a basic package of sustenance, but I don't see the difference between that and a combination of food stamps, housing, medical and energy subsidies we already have in place. I do think there is a myth of huge numbers of people starving in the streets like they have in third world countries.
But there is a path of least resistance that human beings, at least part of them, are happy enough with.
The ten Grand a year just makes a small change in the way subsidization of that group is accomplished.
WSS
Hence the republican interest - if people are mooching anyway, might as well give everyone money, and you cut all the departments that decide if you're eligible, and save a bunch of money there.
-
My income is made up from revenue as musician, Investments and Rental property.
Frankly I'm not quite sure how much my social security check will be but I'm waiting until I am full age.
As far as a guaranteed 10 grand a year?
I have no beef with a basic package of sustenance, but I don't see the difference between that and a combination of food stamps, housing, medical and energy subsidies we already have in place. I do think there is a myth of huge numbers of people starving in the streets like they have in third world countries.
But there is a path of least resistance that human beings, at least part of them, are happy enough with.
The ten Grand a year just makes a small change in the way subsidization of that group is accomplished.
WSS
Hence the republican interest - if people are mooching anyway, might as well give everyone money, and you cut all the departments that decide if you're eligible, and save a bunch of money there.
Hence the republican interest - if people are mooching anyway, might as well give everyone money, and you cut all the departments that decide if you're eligible, and save a bunch of money there.
Don't misunderstand, I'm not offended by the plan, I don't think it will make anyone happy, or at least happier than they are now but fine with me.
WSS
-
You can't change the mentality of poor people. If they take their ten thousand dollars and blow it immediately on lottery tickets and cigarettes there's no helping them. The defining aspect of all poor people is that they're terribly irresponsible. I have a wife who doesn't work and three kids and yet I have nice stuff (some have more, many have less) and I attribute that directly to responsible spending and living within my means.
-
Also if you think about it those agencies provide a lot of jobs for people who would otherwise be on the Dole and figuring out ways to work the system gives something of a sense of purpose to the recipients.
WSS
-
And remember Chris that it won't be long before the ten grand isn't nearly enough. You will have an entire new Battleground with those who want to raise it to 11 12 13 you name it. Not unlike the minimum wage. No matter where you put it people will say it should be more.
Another thought is eliminating food stamps takes away the incentive to buy actual food and not cigarettes, lottery tickets and beer.
And good luck selling that to the farm States.
WSS
-
And remember Chris that it won't be long before the ten grand isn't nearly enough. You will have an entire new Battleground with those who want to raise it to 11 12 13 you name it. Not unlike the minimum wage. No matter where you put it people will say it should be more.
Another thought is eliminating food stamps takes away the incentive to buy actual food and not cigarettes, lottery tickets and beer.
And good luck selling that to the farm States.
WSS
And remember Chris that it won't be long before the ten grand isn't nearly enough. You will have an entire new Battleground with those who want to raise it to 11 12 13 you name it. Not unlike the minimum wage. No matter where you put it people will say it should be more.
Another thought is eliminating food stamps takes away the incentive to buy actual food and not cigarettes, lottery tickets and beer.
And good luck selling that to the farm States.
WSS
It would rise in line with inflation, so there would be no need to squabble over what it should be.
-
And remember Chris that it won't be long before the ten grand isn't nearly enough. You will have an entire new Battleground with those who want to raise it to 11 12 13 you name it. Not unlike the minimum wage. No matter where you put it people will say it should be more.
Another thought is eliminating food stamps takes away the incentive to buy actual food and not cigarettes, lottery tickets and beer.
And good luck selling that to the farm States.
WSS
It would rise in line with inflation, so there would be no need to squabble over what it should be.
It would rise in line with inflation, so there would be no need to squabble over what it should be.
In a perfect world.
WSS
-
In a perfect world.
WSS
That's something that can be written in to law though. It is here with regard to state pensions - it's called the 'triple lock', and pensions rise by the maximum of price inflation, wage inflation, or 2.5%. Same could apply to the minimum income.
-
You can't change the mentality of poor people. If they take their ten thousand dollars and blow it immediately on lottery tickets and cigarettes there's no helping them. The defining aspect of all poor people is that they're terribly irresponsible. I have a wife who doesn't work and three kids and yet I have nice stuff (some have more, many have less) and I attribute that directly to responsible spending and living within my means.
You can't change the mentality of poor people. If they take their ten thousand dollars and blow it immediately on lottery tickets and cigarettes there's no helping them.
Than that's that. If people misuse social netting that's on them. But that doesn't negate the concept because some people do this. I think it's terribly generalizing to say all poor people are irresponsible with their money.
-
You can't change the mentality of poor people. If they take their ten thousand dollars and blow it immediately on lottery tickets and cigarettes there's no helping them.
Than that's that. If people misuse social netting that's on them. But that doesn't negate the concept because some people do this. I think it's terribly generalizing to say all poor people are irresponsible with their money.
Than that's that. If people misuse social netting that's on them. But that doesn't negate the concept because some people do this. I think it's terribly generalizing to say all poor people are irresponsible with their money.
Yeah? Show me some poor people that aren't irresponsible with their money.
-
Than that's that. If people misuse social netting that's on them. But that doesn't negate the concept because some people do this. I think it's terribly generalizing to say all poor people are irresponsible with their money.
Yeah? Show me some poor people that aren't irresponsible with their money.
Yeah? Show me some poor people that aren't irresponsible with their money.
I'm sure there are some, but the percentage is probably low.
-
My aunt's husband left her with four kids ages 12-3 and she fell on real hard times. They knew what it was to be poor. Yet she buckled down and spent what money she did have wisely and climbed out of that back to middle class status. People who are perennially poor are irresponsible with money. It is what it is.
-
When I was real young, my parents struggled with money. We were really poor. However, my dad busted his ass and was good with money. By the time I graduated highschool, we were firmly middle class and lived in a house that we owned. My dad was able to retire early because of how well he ended up managing his money/real estate.
-
When I was real young, my parents struggled with money. We were really poor. However, my dad busted his ass and was good with money. By the time I graduated highschool, we were firmly middle class and lived in a house that we owned. My dad was able to retire early because of how well he ended up managing his money/real estate.
When I was real young, my parents struggled with money. We were really poor. However, my dad busted his ass and was good with money. By the time I graduated highschool, we were firmly middle class and lived in a house that we owned. My dad was able to retire early because of how well he ended up managing his money/real estate.
I come from a poor family also. My Dad worked his ass off but never made good money. Worked in the Flats which ultimately I'm sure caused his death by Lung Cancer.
-
I come from a poor family as well because my dad was a lazy ass. Ya I said it, he was a lazy MFer. I grew up to hate him and his ways of coning church goers into giving money and behind closed doors seen how it really was. I moved out when I was young and went to school.
Now I sit here wanting more money but when I look around it could've been a lot worse. Think about if you were born in a different country where they don't even have running water.
Now to the topic fuck no don't give anybody 10 grand. For what? So they can smoke it up and then what program is out there that helps them after that?
-
Chris I've been thinking this over for a while and decided that I don't like the basic 10% giveaway. As I've said before I have no problem with a safety net for those on the bottom but just to hand it out no questions asked takes away the slightest bit of incentive in my opinion. Not only that but cement the feeling of entitlement, and the resentment that would probably lead to.
It's not even a cost effectiveness issue just basic human pride.
WSS
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login