Will McCown be given the chance to beat out RG III?

gumby73

@orion said:

- Me, I wanted to see us walk away with Paxton Lynch with our 2nd first round pick....even though we've done that same thing in previous drafts. (definition of insanity)

Here at VK Downs the words Pac a ton Lynch will make a old accordion musician lather up in baby oil & do perverted things with his dog. At this point Marriota was your friend

Orion

umm...I'm not young and I used to play accordion.....but I do not wish to do perverted things with my Boston Terrier.

gumby73

Ok good. Check again with mom if accordion was ever stolen by one of her dates. Good God you may need blood tested. A Lynch fan with a accordion back ground at this point is not good..Good Luck to you & don't move to Memphis

jiggins7919

I agree that McCown tends to hold the ball too long, but what I don't know is if that's his fault, or the fault of the WR's not getting open or the play calling. We didn't exactly have a stellar offensive collection of talent and coaches last season, ya know? People, myself included, like to talk about the "Hue Jackson Effect" on RG III, and how Hue tends to get the most out of the QB's he works with. What I DON'T hear is how that same effect could help McCown. What if Hue can extract better play from the 37 year-old? This is actually the first time I thought about it, and it's an interesting anecdote.

We're coming to the end of June now, and it's the "dead period" for NFL football. In another month, it might be time to actually discuss the possibility of a certain star WR applying for reinstatement. I don't want to say his name yet, but if the guy is truly doing what the commissioner wants him to do, there is a small, tiny chance our WR group becomes very interesting.

I won't lie, I can't wait to see what the QB's do with the new WR's. The wide receiver position is one of the very few that can make immediate impacts in the NFL. We've seen it happen time after time during the past few years, and since we drafted an entire stable, perhaps we get our own star?

I don't put much stock in Kessler at this time. I'm not hating on the guy, but he's a rookie at the most difficult position in sports. I'll wait until after a few weeks of training camp to comment on his rankings.

Zombo

I think he'll get a chance. But the staff will be rooting for Grif to beat him out because of age and athleticism.

If grif loses out it is time to think about life after football.

But I think RG will come on strong in training camp, McCown is injury insurance and Kessler will get an honest look too.

Zombo

Tour2ma

@orion said:

Probably so. But analytics might have evaluated the draftable QB's AND the other available veterans as having low ceilings. AND if they didn't like Davis or Shaw...then RG3 does become kind of a default choice.

QB play wasn't our problem last year. But it is a looming issue. RG3 was/is a great gamble at a time when we didn't like what was available. Perhaps next year we go all in for a QB (if RG3 & Kessler turn out to be crap). Or Kessler is worth grooming for the future. Or RG3 turns out to be good.

Me, I wanted to see us walk away with Paxton Lynch with our 2nd first round pick....even though we've done that same thing in previous drafts. (definition of insanity)

I was a Goff-aholic. Simply because I saw in his play a level of QB mastery that others in the draft still dream of. Had the Rams opted for Wentz, I believe our draft would have looked much different. Titans simple wanted too much for us to trade up one slot.

Certainly of all the FA QBs, RG3 was the one with the most upside, but finding the path back to the his rookie self is not assured.

Agree that next year may be the year we go all in to draft our QB.

@gumby73 said:
Here at VK Downs the words Pac a ton Lynch will make a old accordion musician lather up in baby oil & do perverted things with his dog.

lol...

Orion

@tour2ma said:

Had the Rams opted for Wentz, I believe our draft would have looked much different.

So you think that Sashi had spoken to the Rams and knew that they were taking Goff. ('cuz we'd already traded out of #2 prior to draft day)

It makes sense because we traded out of #2 after the Rams traded up to #1.

calfoxwc

, or, we waited til Tenn traded, so we had the upper hand on

negotiating a trade more? This is how I figured it....

Westside Steve

Think of it this way here Jackson went out on a limb and purchased some damage property. A nice-looking automobile but with a salvage title. If it breaks down on the way home he looks like a dick so I would imagine he's going to do everything he can to prop up his boy.

I'm not really worried about the Fran Tarkenton comparison because I think RG3 probably left that ability in the operating room. And don't forget Jackson's offense doesn't require Tom Brady.

So unless RG3 just sucks out loud they will be able to mask his shortcomings with a little bit of Bondo and some trim from Home Depot.

WSS

DieHardBrownsFan

0-16 or maybe 1-15 if RGIII shines.

One Post

Why is it ok for a qb to have growing pains and injuries except for RG3?

Why is it ok for a qb to have a bad season but not RG3?

Why is it ok to sign a vet qb that has been to the playoffs but not RG3?

You can thank Jay Gruden for giving up on RG3. We have him now without any excuses.

One Post

VesnaKociper said:

RG 3 is Black Tarkenton. He was raised and trained to be a run-first QB. His entire football life. While he is certainly light-speed compared to me and you, his injuries were DIRECTLY to his most important weapons, which were impotent to begin with, his legs. Losing a step for a guy like Kosar, Marino or Manning is not a big deal. Those guys made their living with their brains and their are. Black Tarkenton never had those skills. He ran around like a chicken with his head cutoff making athletic plays. He got to the pros and his speed didn't scare anyone. Many LBs and DL were just as fast and they ran him down and fucked him up.

There is no upside to a black Tarkenton. Just like a young rapper pulled over for a routine traffic ticket, at the first sign of trouble, the dumb bastard is going to take off running, and he WILL again get destroyed physically.

Black Tarkenton III has had his day. He will never be as good as he was, again. And even that, was not very good.

I understand the analogy you are using but I see RG3 a lot smarter than you give him credit.

Like I stated before all the excuses are out the window with him now and it's put up or shut up right now. It's been four years time to put his big boy pants on.

A bit off topic..what you say about RG3 fits Kaepernick the most. I think RG3 will be somewhat of a Russel Wilson. However you think you can agree that you hope that you're wrong about RG3.

Orion

i too was disappointed that we didn't get our QB at the top of this draft. We were right there...sitting pretty.

Then the Rams traded to #1 and I thought, 'well, that increases the odds that we trade out of there on draft day'

On draft day I was still holding hope that we might finish the day with Lynch.

I wanted our QB issue to go away.

I've made peace with the fact that the Geek Squad did not value the top of this draft's QB's.

They're entitled to that opinion. But OTHER NFL teams valued Goff, Wentz & Lynch enough to trade up and get them.

Their decision will be measured as time goes by.

Right now we have Kessler to groom as the future, if RG3 isn't. (and McCown to bridge the gap, I guess)

It is what it is. It's what we've got to work with, so now we have to give it time to bake.

gumby73

VesnaKociper said:
To have a team with no QB, then go to the draft with the #2 and #32 picks, and not come away with a QB, preferring to let two pieces of shit battle it out, is beyond stupid. It has to be the dumbest thing Cleveland sports has ever seen. Hey, I understand the philosophy of getting some stop gap players, I get it. ....... IF your team is already flush. But the Browns have nothing. There is a reason losing teams get the higher draft picks, it is so that they can add the better players and become competitive.

It's called a 2 part rebuild. 14 drafted, 6 FA's & a bunch of UDFA in 2016 with no pads on yet. Here's 2017- 12 more picks- 1st-ours & Philly. 2nd-ours & Tenn. 3rd-ours. 4th-Mack,Schwartz & Gipson comp. 5th-own & Benji comp. 6th-own. 7th from Colts. Comps. will be tradeable in 17 I believe?(your favorite)

Flugel

One Post From the Truth said:

Why is it ok for a qb to have growing pains and injuries except for RG3?

Why is it ok for a qb to have a bad season but not RG3?

Why is it ok to sign a vet qb that has been to the playoffs but not RG3?

You can thank Jay Gruden for giving up on RG3. We have him now without any excuses.

Well done One!

The only thing I'll slightly challenge is who we can thank for RG3's departure. Part of it is RG3's immaturity which won't be bad in the long term if a more humble QB can be coached up into what he's capable of. Another part of it was RG3's durability.

There was an article that summarized Mike Shanahan's feelings about what unfolded. Cliff notes version, Daniel Snyder thought all he had to do was re-wire RG3 to be a stationary pocket passer where RG3 went from a playoff and rookie of the year caliber performer to no longer welcome, along with Mike Shanahan. Snyder even made RG3 call a meeting with his coaching staff to inform them of the changes he allegedly wanted (which of course Shanahan knew were the ones Snyder wanted).

Joe Theisman wasn't wired to be a 6'0" stationary pocket passer any more than RG3. Therefore, he did a lot of bootleg (out-of-pocket) waggle passes under Joe Gibbs. In fact, Theisman was originally drafted by the Miami Dolphins but like other 6' QBs that went on to frequent Pro Bowls and NFL Playoffs such as Warren Moon and Jeff Garcia - he would need the CFL experience prior to the right system match for skill set. Gibbs mixed in some 5-7 step drops in some occasional cup protections upfront with deep passes to the post or flag. I think that was done with RG3 as well. Another good thing for the former 6' Heisman Trophy winners was a running game featuring John Riggins or Alfred Morris. You can't set up good play-action waggle passes without that strong running game.

I think Connor Shaw and RG3 bring us skill-sets for a good out of pocket passing game. My biggest worry with both is durability. Josh McCown proved to be a very reliable QB here but he also fell victim to durability issues (although he could have avoided pretending he was the next Larry Csonka at the goal line vrs the Jets). I don't know enough about Kessler to comment. I thought Austin Davis had the time management skills of Rain Man. He was operating the offense on "10 minutes to Wopner" time when we had only 30 seconds to go in the half or game. I liked his arm and reading how studious he was about the game but I think we collided with reasons why he was unemployed.

Flugel

@gumby73 said:
Ok good. Check again with mom if accordion was ever stolen by one of her dates. Good God you may need blood tested. A Lynch fan with a accordion back ground at this point is not good..Good Luck to you & don't move to Memphis

LMAO! God bless ya Gumby!

Westside Steve

"One said:

Why is it ok for a qb to have growing pains and injuries except for RG3?

Why is it ok for a qb to have a bad season but not RG3?

Why is it ok to sign a vet qb that has been to the playoffs but not RG3?

You can thank Jay Gruden for giving up on RG3. We have him now without any excuses.

Conversely why give RG3 the benefit of the doubt when no other quarterback gets it? The reason people, at least I, are leery of the guy is the Redskins overpaid to get him and it was a failure. The biggest reason for that had been his shitty attitude and for that reason it's a little bit harder to work up the sympathy. Just like you-know-who.

Any misgivings are his to dispel and he does that by playing well under the system he's asked to play. The reason I don't think we'll see that much running is that it heightens the risk of injury and previous injury has probably made that less of a factor.

WSS

Westside Steve

(plus I'm still not understanding the notion that Connor Shaw is the savior)

WSS

calfoxwc

I've made peace with the fact that the Geek Squad did not value the top of this draft's QB's. Orion

*******************************************************

That's a false conclusion, I think. They didn't not value them - the simple fact is, they couldn't afford

to take one of them, with all the needs they had to fill as far as their restructuring, to a point, their roster.

One star qb, either one of the top two, is never worth the players they drafted with all those extra picks.

If all the Browns needed was the bigtime qb, of course they would have drafted the qb.

It's a team game, and they needed to rebuild the Browns into a team. With those picks they got the most

explosive wr in the draft, other wr's, well, the whole bunch of players who have the talent and character and

work ethic to fit into what the Browns are going to be - a competitive kick ass bunch of Browns who

will not be put into bad schemes and wrong assignments for their talents...etc, etc etc.

Flugel

@westside-steve said:

(plus I'm still not understanding the notion that Connor Shaw is the savior)

WSS

Savior? If that's aimed at me Steve - I'll clarify where I'm coming from. I don't project him as a savior as much as I welcome/refuse to count out a QB that can sport a 25 TD to 1 INT ratio in his final year at SC in the SEC. Most of Spurrier's former QBs have been asked to read defenses at warped behind suspect numbers up front and pass pro schemes that put split second decisions on center stage in a conference often praised for team speed on defense. He's the ONLY QB at SC that put up an incredible ratio like that while his team went 10-2.

What other things do I like? He seemed like he knew our offense a lot better than Manziel did when they were both rookies. Not only that, the most underrated intangible he showed me was an ability to get out of the pocket and run for a first down if that was handed to him.

The last time we traded a HOF WR like Paul Warfield so we could draft a football messiah at the 3rd pick overall - we ended up with Mike Phipps. Long story short, it's a damn good thing nobody expected Brian Sipe to be anybody's football savior prior to seeing him become the only League MVP I've witnessed at our QB since color television began.

I don't have a big enough body of work to tell me Shaw = Sipe. That said, I kind of liked his starting point in coherence with what separated him from all the other QBs Spurrier had at SC. One time Kurt Warner was asked HOW could Arena Football possibly prepare you for the NFL? He said it trained him to understand the importance of getting rid of the ball quickly especially when numbers up front weren't always favorable. That's what I liked about Shaw's training at SC in an offense that treats its QBs like Hollywood stunt men. The difference between him and a Danny Weurffel is he had the physical and mental ability to escape the pocket on time. That showed up in some of his playing time in the preseason and in the regular season short window he got. Last but not least, I think he's got plenty of time to improve his arm strength the way Andy Dalton has since he entered the NFL.