Orakpo=This Year's Gholston?
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A weak conference is a poor argument here. This is the same conference that produced Jake Long and Joe Thomas. Where you could possibly make arguments about the talent levels overall....good offensive linemen in the Big 10 are not in short supply. I would say that means judging a pass rusher is not subject to a "weak conference bias".
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Same old BS about the Big 10 being a weak conference, like the Big 12 knows how to play defense. Especially talking about Texas playing defense. A two or three team conference for years with a bunch of have-nots until a few years ago, now they start pounding their chests but it isn't because anybody there played defense.
I'd like for him to count how many defensive players are starting in the NFL from that weak Big 10 Conference.
I'm not a big Gholston fan and think the Jets reached for him. That's what happens when teams put too much emphasis on combine numbers instead of watching game film. That being said, the guy had to learn a new position and converting DEs to 3-4 LBs isn't a sure thing. Gholston as a WSDE in a 4-3 might be a stud. Adalias Thomas was a bust at OLB when he was forst moved. Belichick and Mangini both say it take a guy a good year or two training camps to make the conversion to a 3-4 OLB.
Other then Ware and Merriman, their aren't many 3-4 OLBs that were top picks. Guys like Harrison, Vrable, Thomas, Joey Porter and on and on. Pluto had a good article about this in today's PD.
IMO, I would rather take a couple mid round DEs and convert them rather then take a guy at #5 who will make a ton of money and might not be able to make the conversion. A guy like Connor Barwin, who is athletic (a former TE), very aggressive and a hard nosed football player is the type of guy you would love to have to convert to a 3-4 OLB.
Now thats what im talking about. By me saying Ohio State has a weak conference im just saying that our schedule is always pretty easy if you look back a few years to who we have played during the regular season, not much on that list, all the tougher named teams we have had trouble winning or we got our asses handed to us. In regards of the topic they are both physical freaks and will be probably pretty good givin the time and right coaching. So agreed we need more time to finish this topic.
Now thats what im talking about. By me saying Ohio State has a weak conference im just saying that our schedule is always pretty easy if you look back a few years to who we have played during the regular season, not much on that list, all the tougher named teams we have had trouble winning or we got our asses handed to us. In regards of the topic they are both physical freaks and will be probably pretty good givin the time and right coaching. So agreed we need more time to finish this topic.
Then why do you even start the post with "Gholston was in a pretty weak conference in the Big 10"? The reference should have been about taking a guy who was best suited as a 4-3 DE, not what conference he played in. And then if you think Orakpo is better suited as a 4-3 DE or can he convert to a 3-4 OLB. The conferences shouldn't come into it especially since the Big 12 doesn't play defense.
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A weak conference is a poor argument here. This is the same conference that produced Jake Long and Joe Thomas. Where you could possibly make arguments about the talent levels overall....good offensive linemen in the Big 10 are not in short supply. I would say that means judging a pass rusher is not subject to a "weak conference bias".
A weak conference is a poor argument here. This is the same conference that produced Jake Long and Joe Thomas. Where you could possibly make arguments about the talent levels overall....good offensive linemen in the Big 10 are not in short supply. I would say that means judging a pass rusher is not subject to a "weak conference bias".
why does this have to be a debate, ok here we go.. great they had 2 great OL come out , sweet. You also say the big 12 is a 2 or 3 team conference, cool thats sounds like another conference we know, also how did we do this year in bowl games when there wasnt Jake long or Joe thomas. The conference debate is on a yearly basis, every year is different, there are so many different coaching styles and some years recruits are better than others. I dont care what conference is better I care about my team, that usually loses to better opponents.
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Now thats what im talking about. By me saying Ohio State has a weak conference im just saying that our schedule is always pretty easy if you look back a few years to who we have played during the regular season, not much on that list, all the tougher named teams we have had trouble winning or we got our asses handed to us. In regards of the topic they are both physical freaks and will be probably pretty good givin the time and right coaching. So agreed we need more time to finish this topic.
Then why do you even start the post with "Gholston was in a pretty weak conference in the Big 10"? The reference should have been about taking a guy who was best suited as a 4-3 DE, not what conference he played in. And then if you think Orakpo is better suited as a 4-3 DE or can he convert to a 3-4 OLB. The conferences shouldn't come into it especially since the Big 12 doesn't play defense.
Then why do you even start the post with "Gholston was in a pretty weak conference in the Big 10"? The reference should have been about taking a guy who was best suited as a 4-3 DE, not what conference he played in. And then if you think Orakpo is better suited as a 4-3 DE or can he convert to a 3-4 OLB. The conferences shouldn't come into it especially since the Big 12 doesn't play defense.
also if you are accusing me of the topic I didnt start it. I just replied to what i though of the topic. properly stating the statistics and giving the guy props for a year.
if he would have stated who is the best 4-3 DE to turn to a 3-4 OLB then I would have to reference that topic, but that wasnt stated.< but somehow people have to get there panties in a bunch about the big ten
Also I found this site that compares conferences. http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/headToHead its pretty neat.
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He rose fast and hard as the offseason progressed.
This is something I've never understood. With all of the scouting and combines....these guys who "rise fast" as the draft approaches scare me. If you weren't good enough to be at a certain draft position after the combine....why does the week before the draft change things?
This is something I've never understood. With all of the scouting and combines....these guys who "rise fast" as the draft approaches scare me. If you weren't good enough to be at a certain draft position after the combine....why does the week before the draft change things?
/agree the fast risers never seem to translate on the field at the pro-level we have a fast riser in rubin a guy i thought would rock it out from day 1 but he gets rocked out of his socks instead when he was rotated with rogers last year...the kid seems bad against the run and was unable to move anyone or even hold his ground...
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Orakpo=This Year's Gholston?
Only time will tell.
I think that Gholston will rebound and Orakpo is a physical beast he will be hard to pass up on if he is there when we pick.
Orakpo=This Year's Gholston?
Only time will tell.
I think that Gholston will rebound and Orakpo is a physical beast he will be hard to pass up on if he is there when we pick.
I believe Gholston just got picked into the wrong system for him. He might have ended up as a beast as a 4-3 WSDE, but we may never know. Pluto's article today in the PD was eye opening. A. Thomas was a bust when Balt first tried to make him a OLB. He had to be sent back to DE. The next year he caught on and the rest is history. Vrable is another example who didn't catchon to the 3-4 OLB position for 3 years.
Orakpo may be a beast as a DE, but can he transition to a 3-4 OLB nd be dominate in his first year? If there's a question, I'd rather pass and find a few guys later in the draft, far cheaper and work them in. There isn't too many guys who stepped right in and were a success at a 3-4 OLB position. Ware and Merriman, but not many others.
So, if you want to pick Orakpo, you better be sure because he is going to make a hell of a lot of money.
If I'm picking at #5 I want a guy that will come in and be an impact player, right now. I don't care what position, if he can make an immediate impact he makes the team better.
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Orakpo=This Year's Gholston?
Only time will tell.
I think that Gholston will rebound and Orakpo is a physical beast he will be hard to pass up on if he is there when we pick.
I believe Gholston just got picked into the wrong system for him. He might have ended up as a beast as a 4-3 WSDE, but we may never know. Pluto's article today in the PD was eye opening. A. Thomas was a bust when Balt first tried to make him a OLB. He had to be sent back to DE. The next year he caught on and the rest is history. Vrable is another example who didn't catchon to the 3-4 OLB position for 3 years.
Orakpo may be a beast as a DE, but can he transition to a 3-4 OLB nd be dominate in his first year? If there's a question, I'd rather pass and find a few guys later in the draft, far cheaper and work them in. There isn't too many guys who stepped right in and were a success at a 3-4 OLB position. Ware and Merriman, but not many others.
So, if you want to pick Orakpo, you better be sure because he is going to make a hell of a lot of money.
If I'm picking at #5 I want a guy that will come in and be an impact player, right now. I don't care what position, if he can make an immediate impact he makes the team better.
If I'm picking at #5 I want a guy that will come in and be an impact player, right now. I don't care what position, if he can make an immediate impact he makes the team better.
I think you've hit on a very important point. With the money at the top of the draft being what it is....you really cannot afford to miss. First off, they need to start impacting your team (that pretty much means they're a starter) from day one. Second, if they DO bust you're not only going to be looking to fill that same void but you'll be tying up even MORE money in the same position. At that point, it takes away money from other positions and pushes you up against the cap.
Some good examples that come to mind include all of the WRs that Detroit kept taking and not getting their money's worth and also Alex Smith in SF. They paid him top dollar and here they are still looking for a QB.
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Although I'm not a huge fan of drafting a guy extremely high that is going to switch from DE to LB, at the same time I think it always depends on the player. His history and athleticism.
I viewed a guy like Gholston more like John Abraham. I still think Gholston should be playing DE. He didn't start playing football until 10th grade and Cass tried to put him at LB then and it didn't work well.
I view someone like Demarcus Ware as a more athletic type that could make the transition more easily.
Mike Mayock, who I think is one of the best, recently brought up the same issues that I brought up a long time ago in a thread on this forum....Orakpo seems to disappear at times....It seems the effort isn't always there. We saw it in the Bowl game this year where Alex Boone actually shut him down for most of the game.
Mayock said he'd be shocked if Orakpo didn't go in the top ten but at #5 he said "I'm just not an Orakpo guy at that level".
I am completely lost as to what I'd do with #5.....Well, I'd try like hell to trade it!!
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I dont' remember Ghoulston dominating top opponents.
Orakpo dominated two blue chip LT's, one from Oklahoma, and had great games.
His teammates say he's unstoppable, and he's fast, and power and smart and has good character.
He is, imho, the Browns' pick. He will strike fear into div offenses. For a change.
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Orakpo=This Year's Gholston?
Only time will tell.
I think that Gholston will rebound and Orakpo is a physical beast he will be hard to pass up on if he is there when we pick.
I believe Gholston just got picked into the wrong system for him. He might have ended up as a beast as a 4-3 WSDE, but we may never know. Pluto's article today in the PD was eye opening. A. Thomas was a bust when Balt first tried to make him a OLB. He had to be sent back to DE. The next year he caught on and the rest is history. Vrable is another example who didn't catchon to the 3-4 OLB position for 3 years.
Orakpo may be a beast as a DE, but can he transition to a 3-4 OLB nd be dominate in his first year? If there's a question, I'd rather pass and find a few guys later in the draft, far cheaper and work them in. There isn't too many guys who stepped right in and were a success at a 3-4 OLB position. Ware and Merriman, but not many others.
So, if you want to pick Orakpo, you better be sure because he is going to make a hell of a lot of money.
If I'm picking at #5 I want a guy that will come in and be an impact player, right now. I don't care what position, if he can make an immediate impact he makes the team better.
I believe Gholston just got picked into the wrong system for him. He might have ended up as a beast as a 4-3 WSDE, but we may never know. Pluto's article today in the PD was eye opening. A. Thomas was a bust when Balt first tried to make him a OLB. He had to be sent back to DE. The next year he caught on and the rest is history. Vrable is another example who didn't catchon to the 3-4 OLB position for 3 years.
Orakpo may be a beast as a DE, but can he transition to a 3-4 OLB nd be dominate in his first year? If there's a question, I'd rather pass and find a few guys later in the draft, far cheaper and work them in. There isn't too many guys who stepped right in and were a success at a 3-4 OLB position. Ware and Merriman, but not many others.
So, if you want to pick Orakpo, you better be sure because he is going to make a hell of a lot of money.
If I'm picking at #5 I want a guy that will come in and be an impact player, right now. I don't care what position, if he can make an immediate impact he makes the team better.
Absolutely you must get a STARTER with the #5 pick. Thats a lot of $$ for developing.
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I dont' remember Ghoulston dominating top opponents.
Orakpo dominated two blue chip LT's, one from Oklahoma, and had great games.
His teammates say he's unstoppable, and he's fast, and power and smart and has good character.
He is, imho, the Browns' pick. He will strike fear into div offenses. For a change.
I dont' remember Ghoulston dominating top opponents.
Orakpo dominated two blue chip LT's, one from Oklahoma, and had great games.
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You didn't see the Michigan game where Gholston beat Jake long twice? It was the first sack Long gave up that year.
The season previous, he not only ran over Long on one play, he ran over the next blocker and still got to the Henne.
We are talking Jake Long here....Phil Loadholt isn't even close. Who is the other blue chipper that Orakpo had a great game against?
His sophomore year.
This is his junior year. At the 2:32 point is where he completely runs past Jake Long.
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Looks stiffer than Orakpo. You don't see him "bend the edge" much. And when he does, it's against RT's or inferior competition. Contrast that with Orakpo, who gave Loadholt and Russell Okung fits.
There's some risk with any 3-4 front seven projection; Orakpo's no exception. But his upside is incredibly enticing.
I'd take Osackpo over anyone in this draft not named Aaron Curry.
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Looks stiffer than Orakpo. You don't see him "bend the edge" much. And when he does, it's against RT's or inferior competition. Contrast that with Orakpo, who gave Loadholt and Russell Okung fits.
There's some risk with any 3-4 front seven projection; Orakpo's no exception. But his upside is incredibly enticing.
I'd take Osackpo over anyone in this draft not named Aaron Curry.
Aloysius said:
Looks stiffer than Orakpo. You don't seeing him "bend the edge" much. And when he does, it's against RT's or inferior competition. Contrast that with Orakpo, who gave Loadholt and Russell Okung fits.There's some risk with any 3-4 front seven projection; Orakpo's no exception. But his upside is incredibly enticing.
I'd take Osackpo over anyone in this draft not named Aaron Curry.
Actually his stiffness wasn't the point of the post......It was a response to another post that said he didn't dominate against big time talent. I think Long is Bigger than the two mentioned in your post.
I'm not even sure how much Orakpo lined up against Okung on the right side.
I'll go with Mayock's analysis......"His effort isn't consistant. He seems to disappear at times. I'd be shocked if he weren't a top ten pick but at #5 I'm just not an Orakpo guy at that level".
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Aloysius said:
Looks stiffer than Orakpo. You don't seeing him "bend the edge" much. And when he does, it's against RT's or inferior competition. Contrast that with Orakpo, who gave Loadholt and Russell Okung fits.There's some risk with any 3-4 front seven projection; Orakpo's no exception. But his upside is incredibly enticing.
I'd take Osackpo over anyone in this draft not named Aaron Curry.
Actually his stiffness wasn't the point of the post......It was a response to another post that said he didn't dominate against big time talent. I think Long is Bigger than the two mentioned in your post.
I'm not even sure how much Orakpo lined up against Okung on the right side.
I'll go with Mayock's analysis......"His effort isn't consistant. He seems to disappear at times. I'd be shocked if he weren't a top ten pick but at #5 I'm just not an Orakpo guy at that level".
Actually his stiffness wasn't the point of the post....It was that he did dominate against big time opponents. Bigger than the two mentioned in your post.
Oh, I don't contest that Gholston was a dominant college player. I'm focusing more on the skills that project to NFL success, particularly as a 3-4 linebacker.
The stiffness affects Gholston's ability to play in space. When I watched the prospects run through LB drills at the Combine last year, I though Chris Long looked more like a guy capable of transitioning to linebacker. In reality, both players are probably better off playing 4-3 end.
Also, I think one of Gholston's problems is that he was able to physically overwhelm guys at the collegiate level, whereas he'll need to refine his hand usage and rush moves to have consistent success as a rusher in the NFL. Orakpo needs some work in this area too, but he's got the quickness to beat guys with speed. Plus, he's shown the commitment to improving his game, spending the '08 offseason studying martial arts in order to improve his hand play. I've heard that some question Gholston's desire to be great; I don't think that's much of a concern with Osackpo.
I'll go with Mayhock's analysis......"His effort isn't consistant. He seems to disappear at times. I'd be shocked if he weren't a top ten pick but at #5 I'm just not an Orakpo guy at that level".
Don't know what's up with Mayock. A couple months ago, he was saying that Orakpo reminded him of DeMarcus Ware and Aaron Curry could play anywhere in any scheme. Now, he's a hell of a lot more skeptical about Orakpo and is "more comfortable" projecting Curry to a 4-3 front. And then there's the whole Robert Ayers thing...
Still have a ton of respect for the guy's opinion. Just wish I could get a clearer explanation for why his views are evolving. Watched the Alabama-Tennessee game because he mentioned that Ayers dominated Andre Smith, and I saw a guy reducing inside to use his good but not great quickness to beat Bama's LG. Watched the Texas-Oklahoma State game because he mentioned how Pettigrew handled Orakpo, and I see Orakpo overwhelm a future 1st round left tackle.
Just don't get why Ayers is suddenly a better prospect than Orakpo and Curry.
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I agree.....I said in a previous post that I see Gholston as much more of a John Abraham type. He should be playing DE where he can use that first step quickness and brute strength.
I never saw him as a Linebacker.
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Sorry, VT, I don't remember that game... must have been busy.
But even though they are similar in build, their mental make up seems to be very, very different.
Ghouston was a loner, and quiet. Competitive on the field
But Orakpo is extremely competitive, and outgoing, and funny, and -into the game-.
The big different, imho, is the personality and drive of Orakpo. That will make him a big success in the NFL.
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Texas' opponents experiencing Orakpo phobia
01:29 AM CDT on Thursday, October 30, 2008
AUSTIN – Brian Orakpo, a fan of author John Steinbeck, penned a concise description of his playing
style for the Texas football Web site: "Too fast for your eyes."
The problem was that Orakpo was more visible than he wanted to be in 2007, slowed by a knee injury.
The senior defensive end whom coach Mack Brown called maybe the best pass rusher of his time in
Texas managed just 5 ½ sacks after suffering a chop block against Arkansas State.
Now, the Orakpo everybody expected has emerged. He's in the face of offensive linemen, the heads of
quarterbacks and on a mission, he says, to make up for time lost.
The next challenge of Orakpo and his defensive teammates will be getting past Texas Tech's ample, accomplished
offensive line and invading Graham Harrell's personal space.
"They've only given up three sacks all season," said Orakpo (6-4, 260). "We understand their philosophy. We
understand that the sacks aren't going to be a huge numbers.
"But from what we've saying from Day 1 is putting the pressure, making them somewhat uncomfortable and not letting
them sit back there for days."
Containing Orakpo has bedeviled even the biggest and best offensive linemen. Somehow, Orakpo found a route around
Oklahoma's mammoth Phil Loadholt (6-8, 337) in an eye-opening performance earlier this year.
"It means a lot to our defense because you know somehow the quarterback will be affected," Texas defensive tackle
Roy Miller said. "Rak has a mismatch on everybody he plays."
In big-time college football, just about everybody is strong.
Or fast.
Or gifted.
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Sorry, VT, I don't remember that game... must have been busy.
But even though they are similar in build, their mental make up seems to be very, very different.
Ghouston was a loner, and quiet. Competitive on the field
But Orakpo is extremely competitive, and outgoing, and funny, and -into the game-.
The big different, imho, is the personality and drive of Orakpo. That will make him a big success in the NFL.
*****************************
Texas' opponents experiencing Orakpo phobia
01:29 AM CDT on Thursday, October 30, 2008
AUSTIN – Brian Orakpo, a fan of author John Steinbeck, penned a concise description of his playing
style for the Texas football Web site: "Too fast for your eyes."
The problem was that Orakpo was more visible than he wanted to be in 2007, slowed by a knee injury.
The senior defensive end whom coach Mack Brown called maybe the best pass rusher of his time in
Texas managed just 5 ½ sacks after suffering a chop block against Arkansas State.
Now, the Orakpo everybody expected has emerged. He's in the face of offensive linemen, the heads of
quarterbacks and on a mission, he says, to make up for time lost.
The next challenge of Orakpo and his defensive teammates will be getting past Texas Tech's ample, accomplished
offensive line and invading Graham Harrell's personal space.
"They've only given up three sacks all season," said Orakpo (6-4, 260). "We understand their philosophy. We
understand that the sacks aren't going to be a huge numbers.
"But from what we've saying from Day 1 is putting the pressure, making them somewhat uncomfortable and not letting
them sit back there for days."
Containing Orakpo has bedeviled even the biggest and best offensive linemen. Somehow, Orakpo found a route around
Oklahoma's mammoth Phil Loadholt (6-8, 337) in an eye-opening performance earlier this year.
"It means a lot to our defense because you know somehow the quarterback will be affected," Texas defensive tackle
Roy Miller said. "Rak has a mismatch on everybody he plays."
In big-time college football, just about everybody is strong.
Or fast.
Or gifted.
Containing Orakpo has bedeviled even the biggest and best offensive linemen. Somehow, Orakpo found a route around
Oklahoma's mammoth Phil Loadholt (6-8, 337) in an eye-opening performance earlier this year.
And late round selection or undrafted FA Alex Boone shut him down. Orakpo had one early sack and two tackles in the Fiesta bowl. After the 1st period he completely disappeared.
I think this is why Mayock as cooled on him. Could he be great? You bet.... But Mayock sees a guy that isn't consistent.
Mayock acts now as if he doesn't even think he's worthy a top ten pick.
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Containing Orakpo has bedeviled even the biggest and best offensive linemen. Somehow, Orakpo found a route around
Oklahoma's mammoth Phil Loadholt (6-8, 337) in an eye-opening performance earlier this year.
And late round selection or undrafted FA Alex Boone shut him down. Orakpo had one early sack and two tackles in the Fiesta bowl. After the 1st period he completely disappeared.
I think this is why Mayock as cooled on him. Could he be great? You bet.... But Mayock sees a guy that isn't consistent.
Mayock acts now as if he doesn't even think he's worthy a top ten pick.
And late round selection or undrafted FA Alex Boone shut him down.
That's not true. It wasn't Orakpo's best game, but Boone didn't "shut him down". In fact, Orakpo lined up a lot at LE because they wanted to stop Pryor from simply rolling to the right whenever Orakpo beat Boone, which happened a few times early in the game.
You can re-watch the game on Hulu. There's been a lot of unfair criticism of his play in that game. And because it's the only Texas game a lot of OSU/Browns fans saw, it's leading to some being a lot lower on Orakpo than they should be.
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And late round selection or undrafted FA Alex Boone shut him down.
That's not true. It wasn't Orakpo's best game, but Boone didn't "shut him down". In fact, Orakpo lined up a lot at LE because they wanted to stop Pryor from simply rolling to the right whenever Orakpo beat Boone, which happened a few times early in the game.
You can re-watch the game on Hulu. There's been a lot of unfair criticism of his play in that game. And because it's the only Texas game a lot of OSU/Browns fans saw, it's leading to some being a lot lower on Orakpo than they should be.
Aloysius said:
That's not true. It wasn't Orakpo's best game, but Boone didn't "shut him down". In fact, Orakpo lined up a lot at LE because they wanted to stop Pryor from simply rolling to the right whenever Orakpo beat Boone, which happened a few times early in the game.You can re-watch the game on Hulu. There's been a lot of unfair criticism of his play in that game. And because it's the only Texas game a lot of OSU/Browns fans saw, it's leading to some being a lot lower on Orakpo than they should be.
Ok, then Bryant Browning shut him down....Even worse!!! A guard who had been moved to Tackle out of need.
Either way, his presence was not felt often in that game.
Where was he when Boeckman played? Didn't have to worry about Pryor rolling on those plays. He never came close to Boeckman.
Todd was 5-12 for 110 yards and a TD. During those plays Texas knew they Buckeyes were going to throw. The perfect time for Orakpo to put his head down and go. Where was he?
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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