Where to start.....
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Hope always springs eternal in Cleveland doesn't it.
Well after the 2*16 CAVS....INDIANS .........../ /....Browns again?
Sad but true they just can't get get any continuity with this team despite year after year of high draft picks and year after year of coaching and front office letdowns.
The NFL is a very unforgiving place for such behavior, who knows maybe they'll steal a few wins this year. ..... maybe.
GO BROWNS!
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Numb.....I dont feel let down or even surprised.......just mad
I dont want to steal wins either.....tired of that....very VERY tired of expecting to lose and then getting happy because we got a 1st down or a lucky win or "a" player made a play...or had a good game.....
Exhausted....actually
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Yup,Mud- I missed the 1st. But I did watch the 2nd, and most of the third. It was all I could stomach (as someone aptly put it) the dumpster fire. Or train wreck. It looked like the Bucs were playing Brown University, not the Cleveland Browns. I put the over under at two and a half wins they may not win a game the way they played.
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Does anyone here actually remember when Butch Davis actually led the BROWNS to the playoffs?
Seems like eons ago.....oh wait it was. Chances are if you're under maybe 21 you really don't recall that at all. Remember too how many fans wanted him gone, be careful what you wish for sometimes.
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Does anyone here actually remember when Butch Davis actually led the BROWNS to the playoffs?
Seems like eons ago.....oh wait it was. Chances are if you're under maybe 21 you really don't recall that at all. Remember too how many fans wanted him gone, be careful what you wish for sometimes.
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The following reply was for a thread that OldBrowns started that got inexplicably closed. Since I put some time into it - I'll post it here.
People have to stop blaming the new front office and coaching staff for the land mines they inherited - such as the countless 1st round picks and bad drafts that made this an ongoing Poseiden Adventure since 1999. For the most part, a lot of fans on this message board get this with varied expectations on how many games this team can win in 2016.
Even when Bill Belichick took over this team with well respected coaches, future NFL Head Coaches and future GMs (ie: Nick Saban, Kirk Ferentz, Greg Schwartz, Scott Pioli, Ozzie Newsome, Thomas Dimitroff, Eric Mangini and Ghoolie's favorite Phil Savage) - he didn't get this team into a post season until his 4th year here. Both BB and Ozzie went on to become very successful in their next gigs
Hopefully, we don't have to wait another 4 years with feeling like it's 1999. When I watched Bob Slowik's non-competitive 15 yard cushions back in 1999 - I asked myself can it get any worse than this? 2015 came pretty freakin close considering the reality this team was 7-9 in 2014. That's why I don't think it was ALL Pettine's fault like some people want to insinuate even though it was insane to CUT Pryor (erasing some serious development time) only to bring him back so late Pettine wouldn't feel comfortable playing him. Huh??? That said, we got off to a 6-4 start WITHOUT Josh Gordon in 2014 so something had to be going right with the coaching. It's up to your front office to identify guys on film that can BLOCK people, get OPEN, CATCH the ball, TACKLE people, SHED blockers, HURRY passers, and play with ideal 1st step instinct. If they come here needing to be taught that at the Pro Level like Mingo (or take your pick), the teams drafting guys that don't need to learn those same essentials have a competitive advantage.
Sometimes patience is required for young players like the John Greco story here reminds us. He had a few fill-in starts for an injured starter his first 2 or 3 years in St Louis before sitting the bench his first year here. He finally found a comfortable niche at RG in 2014. This pertains to all positions. With experience comes the ability to play faster, smarter and more consistently. It's up to the coaching staff to know what guys are worth being patient with and which ones need to get their walking papers.
I like a lot of the newcomers we added this year. The more they play together - the better they will get while chemistry should improve as well. However, it's time to part with some vets long past their best football. Hate to say it, but ever since the league announced it will start to test for HGH near the end of 2014 - Paul Kruger has become less physical than Raggedy Ann. The season of 11 or 11.5 sacks feels like a lifetime ago. He also looks like a pinball wizard with the deaf, dumb and blind for a guy with his experience volume. A lot of these vets are set in there ways so when we see a Whitner consistently going for the ESPN killshot with his head down in 2015 and missing countless tackles - not only is he not coachable but he sets a bad example for our younger guys in the secondary that had a high volume of concussions last year. Coincidence? Or, was there a lot of contact being initiated with the helmet instead of the shoulder pads (with HEADS up)?
Some staffs like to use preseason as a way of showing younger guys there's a lot of adversity to overcome in this game (ie; Kessler being backed up near his goal line for 2 of his first 3 NFL drives). Nobody chose to remember the 1st drive he had with ideal field position beginning and ending with a TD pass by Kessler. Hue refused to baby his rookie QB with conservative hand-offs down there (which probably wouldn't happen in the regular season if the game counted) so it was a growing pain during a game that doesn't count on our regular season record. Some like to see how they can cover without an aggressive pass rush even if I can't tell if that was as much by design or by uh-oh. Belichick set someone straight this week about the 3rd preseason game - they don't game plan for opponents especially when roster clarity this time of year doesn't guarantee that's the starter or backup any more than how much further beyond vanilla the schemes go.
Our 2nd defensive series was on the verge of holding TB to a FG when a penalty/learning experience gave TB a first and goal for a TD instead. Our 2nd TD surrendered was on a punt return which happened to us how many times under the same STs coach in 2015? When the Detroit Lions went 0-16 in the regular season - they were undefeated in the preseason including their alleged 3rd game dress rehearsal.
Newcomers that really intrigue me:
RGIII
C. Coleman
Nassib
Alexander
Drango
Kindred (head up = opponent tackled like I said umpteen times in 2015)
Ogbah
Jones
S. Coleman
Pryor (this will be his first full year here)
Taylor (although he needs more consistently tackling people)
Hamlett
2nd year here guys I expect progress from:
Meder
Shelton
Cooper
Orchard
Pasztor (reminds me of what I saw from Schwartz his first couple years starting here. Occasional flags or sacks surrendered in pass pro but we could run outside of him.)
Duke Johnson
Erving (his vulnerability to x stunts up front on 3rd and long pass situations should improve. I'm seeing way better bend in his stance than he had out of position at OG last year)
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
We said the same last year....about who the coach inherited and all the bad picks....
and the year before...
and the year before....etc...
Fact is...Pettine WAS the coach that got an immediate turn around....then fell back the next year.....and THEN was blamed for the mess, when he had ZERO talent....his DB's were all hurt....and JFF was being forced down his throat....
You're a nice guy with endless optimism....but one only needs to look at this team to see there are no play makers and the talent is LESS this year, than it's been in a while.....
And, yes, lets blame Farmer....then be all optimistic about Orchard, Shelton, Barnidge, Crow, Cooper & Pryor....all of whom he just brought in......
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Sounds like Mud is giving a Ghoolie like rendition of the Browns...but it's one I happen to agree with.
First of all, I've been bitching since the dawn of time that the Browns have been mostly void of talent and no HC is going to come in here and change things quickly.
Look at the other AFCN teams, most of those HC's have held their jobs for years.
Which brings me to the owner.
Haslam is more impatient than the Cleveland fan base, and that in itself is a whole 'nother problem.
To fix the problem, the Browns will need to have 2-3 consecutive drafts of actually drafting NFL caliber players and an owner that is willing to give a coaching staff a 3 yr minimum of implementing their system.
Until that happens, we're stuck watching this shit show.
Sounds like Mud is giving a Ghoolie like rendition of the Browns...
Why do you hate Mud?
Seriously... nothing alike. One just says stuff, mostly self-aggrandizing, offering no supporting evidence and the other is Mud.
Mud, the only thing I hold out hope for is that the OL has a chance of gelling. Right now I think that involves Shon Coleman at RT and someone else at Center, but that's pending a serious 2nd look at last nite's tape.
The Defense? I'll reiterate a comment I preliminarily posted last nite pending the full box score... the run D was not bad. But the question of "at what cost did we stop the run" is valid. And last nite it was 257 1st-half passing yards primarily due to a lack of pressure.
It is hard to identify dual-threat, Stop-the-run/pressure-the-passer players on our DL roster. Des was one, but... Cooper maybe?
The dirth of NFL-level talent on the D-side is undeniable.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Sounds like Mud is giving a Ghoolie like rendition of the Browns...
Why do you hate Mud?
Seriously... nothing alike. One just says stuff, mostly self-aggrandizing, offering no supporting evidence and the other is Mud.
Mud, the only thing I hold out hope for is that the OL has a chance of gelling. Right now I think that involves Shon Coleman at RT and someone else at Center, but that's pending a serious 2nd look at last nite's tape.
The Defense? I'll reiterate a comment I preliminarily posted last nite pending the full box score... the run D was not bad. But the question of "at what cost did we stop the run" is valid. And last nite it was 257 1st-half passing yards primarily due to a lack of pressure.
It is hard to identify dual-threat, Stop-the-run/pressure-the-passer players on our DL roster. Des was one, but... Cooper maybe?
The dirth of NFL-level talent on the D-side is undeniable.
Why do you hate Mud?
Seriously... nothing alike. One just says stuff, mostly self-aggrandizing, offering no supporting evidence and the other is Mud.
Eggsactly!...
....Ive always been the optimist....searching for the "good" and trying to deny the bad....but Mud has changed his tune....I can only say what I see......Mud, the only thing I hold out hope for is that the OL has a chance of gelling. Right now I think that involves Shon Coleman at RT and someone else at Center, but that's pending a serious 2nd look at last nite's tape.
I defer to you on the line.....bless you for seeing something I cant find.......Im worried we will see a LOT of Kessler......
The Defense? I'll reiterate a comment I preliminarily posted last nite pending the full box score... the run D was not bad. But the question of "at what cost did we stop the run" is valid. And last nite it was 257 1st-half passing yards primarily due to a lack of pressure.
We should be starting Meder & Traymon....playing a 4-3....and signing someone who can tackle....and cover....
It is hard to identify dual-threat, Stop-the-run/pressure-the-passer players on our DL roster. Des was one, but... Cooper maybe?
Coopers not bad....but not gonna be great(ever)....yet another middling talent, who presumably has an amazing "first step" we keep hearing about.....
The dirth of NFL-level talent on the D-side is undeniable.
Undeniable....yep....... well, until Cal shows up.....
After every game, there is ALWAYS an "I loved this" thread....some excited talk about "somebody" etc...but today?
Silence.....a vacuum......nothing......
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Sounds like Mud is giving a Ghoolie like rendition of the Browns...
Why do you hate Mud?
Seriously... nothing alike. One just says stuff, mostly self-aggrandizing, offering no supporting evidence and the other is Mud.
Mud, the only thing I hold out hope for is that the OL has a chance of gelling. Right now I think that involves Shon Coleman at RT and someone else at Center, but that's pending a serious 2nd look at last nite's tape.
The Defense? I'll reiterate a comment I preliminarily posted last nite pending the full box score... the run D was not bad. But the question of "at what cost did we stop the run" is valid. And last nite it was 257 1st-half passing yards primarily due to a lack of pressure.
It is hard to identify dual-threat, Stop-the-run/pressure-the-passer players on our DL roster. Des was one, but... Cooper maybe?
The dirth of NFL-level talent on the D-side is undeniable.
-
The following reply was for a thread that OldBrowns started that got inexplicably closed. Since I put some time into it - I'll post it here.
People have to stop blaming the new front office and coaching staff for the land mines they inherited - such as the countless 1st round picks and bad drafts that made this an ongoing Poseiden Adventure since 1999. For the most part, a lot of fans on this message board get this with varied expectations on how many games this team can win in 2016.
Even when Bill Belichick took over this team with well respected coaches, future NFL Head Coaches and future GMs (ie: Nick Saban, Kirk Ferentz, Greg Schwartz, Scott Pioli, Ozzie Newsome, Thomas Dimitroff, Eric Mangini and Ghoolie's favorite Phil Savage) - he didn't get this team into a post season until his 4th year here. Both BB and Ozzie went on to become very successful in their next gigs
Hopefully, we don't have to wait another 4 years with feeling like it's 1999. When I watched Bob Slowik's non-competitive 15 yard cushions back in 1999 - I asked myself can it get any worse than this? 2015 came pretty freakin close considering the reality this team was 7-9 in 2014. That's why I don't think it was ALL Pettine's fault like some people want to insinuate even though it was insane to CUT Pryor (erasing some serious development time) only to bring him back so late Pettine wouldn't feel comfortable playing him. Huh??? That said, we got off to a 6-4 start WITHOUT Josh Gordon in 2014 so something had to be going right with the coaching. It's up to your front office to identify guys on film that can BLOCK people, get OPEN, CATCH the ball, TACKLE people, SHED blockers, HURRY passers, and play with ideal 1st step instinct. If they come here needing to be taught that at the Pro Level like Mingo (or take your pick), the teams drafting guys that don't need to learn those same essentials have a competitive advantage.
Sometimes patience is required for young players like the John Greco story here reminds us. He had a few fill-in starts for an injured starter his first 2 or 3 years in St Louis before sitting the bench his first year here. He finally found a comfortable niche at RG in 2014. This pertains to all positions. With experience comes the ability to play faster, smarter and more consistently. It's up to the coaching staff to know what guys are worth being patient with and which ones need to get their walking papers.
I like a lot of the newcomers we added this year. The more they play together - the better they will get while chemistry should improve as well. However, it's time to part with some vets long past their best football. Hate to say it, but ever since the league announced it will start to test for HGH near the end of 2014 - Paul Kruger has become less physical than Raggedy Ann. The season of 11 or 11.5 sacks feels like a lifetime ago. He also looks like a pinball wizard with the deaf, dumb and blind for a guy with his experience volume. A lot of these vets are set in there ways so when we see a Whitner consistently going for the ESPN killshot with his head down in 2015 and missing countless tackles - not only is he not coachable but he sets a bad example for our younger guys in the secondary that had a high volume of concussions last year. Coincidence? Or, was there a lot of contact being initiated with the helmet instead of the shoulder pads (with HEADS up)?
Some staffs like to use preseason as a way of showing younger guys there's a lot of adversity to overcome in this game (ie; Kessler being backed up near his goal line for 2 of his first 3 NFL drives). Nobody chose to remember the 1st drive he had with ideal field position beginning and ending with a TD pass by Kessler. Hue refused to baby his rookie QB with conservative hand-offs down there (which probably wouldn't happen in the regular season if the game counted) so it was a growing pain during a game that doesn't count on our regular season record. Some like to see how they can cover without an aggressive pass rush even if I can't tell if that was as much by design or by uh-oh. Belichick set someone straight this week about the 3rd preseason game - they don't game plan for opponents especially when roster clarity this time of year doesn't guarantee that's the starter or backup any more than how much further beyond vanilla the schemes go.
Our 2nd defensive series was on the verge of holding TB to a FG when a penalty/learning experience gave TB a first and goal for a TD instead. Our 2nd TD surrendered was on a punt return which happened to us how many times under the same STs coach in 2015? When the Detroit Lions went 0-16 in the regular season - they were undefeated in the preseason including their alleged 3rd game dress rehearsal.
Newcomers that really intrigue me:
RGIII
C. Coleman
Nassib
Alexander
Drango
Kindred (head up = opponent tackled like I said umpteen times in 2015)
Ogbah
Jones
S. Coleman
Pryor (this will be his first full year here)
Taylor (although he needs more consistently tackling people)
Hamlett
2nd year here guys I expect progress from:
Meder
Shelton
Cooper
Orchard
Pasztor (reminds me of what I saw from Schwartz his first couple years starting here. Occasional flags or sacks surrendered in pass pro but we could run outside of him.)
Duke Johnson
Erving (his vulnerability to x stunts up front on 3rd and long pass situations should improve. I'm seeing way better bend in his stance than he had out of position at OG last year)
- The following reply was for a thread that OldBrowns started that got inexplicably closed.
- Yeah... what was up with that? OBF playing with his thread's buttons?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
In the "glass is half full" department the BROWNS have one possible hopeful thing to look forward to this season, the end of year schedule they go:
HHAHH bye HAHA! (It almost sounds funny.)
Well saying they don't get too crushed or injured early on -and- their young talent comes around they just might be able to put on some kind of run, Wild Card maybe? Dare we dream of it?
Thank you schedule makers, maybe the same folks that did the Indians 2016 home finish?
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
- The following reply was for a thread that OldBrowns started that got inexplicably closed.
- Yeah... what was up with that? OBF playing with his thread's buttons?
- Yeah... what was up with that? OBF playing with his thread's buttons?
- IF it's only 4-years a la '91-'94, I'd be happy.
- In general... blocking as well as tackling... I thought I saw a lot better form.
- Should? Yes, but will it? He chases. As for bend... I'll look for improvement, but it could not be worse than it was last year when he was a jack-in-the-box. My latest concern is his level of athleticism... especially since he's "bulked up". He was in a shot of the O leaving the field last nite and broke into an awkward looking jog.
Not me. I just wanted to make a post to get some of you guys' opinion on how we turn this around. It seems to me like the first step would be identifying our problems then work to make the correction. I know that is just a general statement but I look to you football guru's on here to put some meat on the bones
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In the "glass is half full" department the BROWNS have one possible hopeful thing to look forward to this season, the end of year schedule they go:
HHAHH bye HAHA! (It almost sounds funny.)
Well saying they don't get too crushed or injured early on -and- their young talent comes around they just might be able to put on some kind of run, Wild Card maybe? Dare we dream of it?
Thank you schedule makers, maybe the same folks that did the Indians 2016 home finish?
-
NOW THAT'S A CLASSIC!!Wild Card?????......Thats Fucking insane......
And yes you don't have to be insane to be a BROWNS fan but it helps. I really think the defense so far looks "spotty" to be very kind and the once good OL was good when they had nobody to run or catch the ball past maybe 15 yards down field. So we're stuck with 3-6 wins this year?
And playing who's on the clock?
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The following reply was for a thread that OldBrowns started that got inexplicably closed. Since I put some time into it - I'll post it here.
People have to stop blaming the new front office and coaching staff for the land mines they inherited - such as the countless 1st round picks and bad drafts that made this an ongoing Poseiden Adventure since 1999. For the most part, a lot of fans on this message board get this with varied expectations on how many games this team can win in 2016.
Even when Bill Belichick took over this team with well respected coaches, future NFL Head Coaches and future GMs (ie: Nick Saban, Kirk Ferentz, Greg Schwartz, Scott Pioli, Ozzie Newsome, Thomas Dimitroff, Eric Mangini and Ghoolie's favorite Phil Savage) - he didn't get this team into a post season until his 4th year here. Both BB and Ozzie went on to become very successful in their next gigs
Hopefully, we don't have to wait another 4 years with feeling like it's 1999. When I watched Bob Slowik's non-competitive 15 yard cushions back in 1999 - I asked myself can it get any worse than this? 2015 came pretty freakin close considering the reality this team was 7-9 in 2014. That's why I don't think it was ALL Pettine's fault like some people want to insinuate even though it was insane to CUT Pryor (erasing some serious development time) only to bring him back so late Pettine wouldn't feel comfortable playing him. Huh??? That said, we got off to a 6-4 start WITHOUT Josh Gordon in 2014 so something had to be going right with the coaching. It's up to your front office to identify guys on film that can BLOCK people, get OPEN, CATCH the ball, TACKLE people, SHED blockers, HURRY passers, and play with ideal 1st step instinct. If they come here needing to be taught that at the Pro Level like Mingo (or take your pick), the teams drafting guys that don't need to learn those same essentials have a competitive advantage.
Sometimes patience is required for young players like the John Greco story here reminds us. He had a few fill-in starts for an injured starter his first 2 or 3 years in St Louis before sitting the bench his first year here. He finally found a comfortable niche at RG in 2014. This pertains to all positions. With experience comes the ability to play faster, smarter and more consistently. It's up to the coaching staff to know what guys are worth being patient with and which ones need to get their walking papers.
I like a lot of the newcomers we added this year. The more they play together - the better they will get while chemistry should improve as well. However, it's time to part with some vets long past their best football. Hate to say it, but ever since the league announced it will start to test for HGH near the end of 2014 - Paul Kruger has become less physical than Raggedy Ann. The season of 11 or 11.5 sacks feels like a lifetime ago. He also looks like a pinball wizard with the deaf, dumb and blind for a guy with his experience volume. A lot of these vets are set in there ways so when we see a Whitner consistently going for the ESPN killshot with his head down in 2015 and missing countless tackles - not only is he not coachable but he sets a bad example for our younger guys in the secondary that had a high volume of concussions last year. Coincidence? Or, was there a lot of contact being initiated with the helmet instead of the shoulder pads (with HEADS up)?
Some staffs like to use preseason as a way of showing younger guys there's a lot of adversity to overcome in this game (ie; Kessler being backed up near his goal line for 2 of his first 3 NFL drives). Nobody chose to remember the 1st drive he had with ideal field position beginning and ending with a TD pass by Kessler. Hue refused to baby his rookie QB with conservative hand-offs down there (which probably wouldn't happen in the regular season if the game counted) so it was a growing pain during a game that doesn't count on our regular season record. Some like to see how they can cover without an aggressive pass rush even if I can't tell if that was as much by design or by uh-oh. Belichick set someone straight this week about the 3rd preseason game - they don't game plan for opponents especially when roster clarity this time of year doesn't guarantee that's the starter or backup any more than how much further beyond vanilla the schemes go.
Our 2nd defensive series was on the verge of holding TB to a FG when a penalty/learning experience gave TB a first and goal for a TD instead. Our 2nd TD surrendered was on a punt return which happened to us how many times under the same STs coach in 2015? When the Detroit Lions went 0-16 in the regular season - they were undefeated in the preseason including their alleged 3rd game dress rehearsal.
Newcomers that really intrigue me:
RGIII
C. Coleman
Nassib
Alexander
Drango
Kindred (head up = opponent tackled like I said umpteen times in 2015)
Ogbah
Jones
S. Coleman
Pryor (this will be his first full year here)
Taylor (although he needs more consistently tackling people)
Hamlett
2nd year here guys I expect progress from:
Meder
Shelton
Cooper
Orchard
Pasztor (reminds me of what I saw from Schwartz his first couple years starting here. Occasional flags or sacks surrendered in pass pro but we could run outside of him.)
Duke Johnson
Erving (his vulnerability to x stunts up front on 3rd and long pass situations should improve. I'm seeing way better bend in his stance than he had out of position at OG last year)
The following reply was for a thread that OldBrowns started that got inexplicably closed. Since I put some time into it - I'll post it here.
People have to stop blaming the new front office and coaching staff for the land mines they inherited - such as the countless 1st round picks and bad drafts that made this an ongoing Poseiden Adventure since 1999. For the most part, a lot of fans on this message board get this with varied expectations on how many games this team can win in 2016.
Even when Bill Belichick took over this team with well respected coaches, future NFL Head Coaches and future GMs (ie: Nick Saban, Kirk Ferentz, Greg Schwartz, Scott Pioli, Ozzie Newsome, Thomas Dimitroff, Eric Mangini and Ghoolie's favorite Phil Savage) - he didn't get this team into a post season until his 4th year here. Both BB and Ozzie went on to become very successful in their next gigs
Hopefully, we don't have to wait another 4 years with feeling like it's 1999. When I watched Bob Slowik's non-competitive 15 yard cushions back in 1999 - I asked myself can it get any worse than this? 2015 came pretty freakin close considering the reality this team was 7-9 in 2014. That's why I don't think it was ALL Pettine's fault like some people want to insinuate even though it was insane to CUT Pryor (erasing some serious development time) only to bring him back so late Pettine wouldn't feel comfortable playing him. Huh??? That said, we got off to a 6-4 start WITHOUT Josh Gordon in 2014 so something had to be going right with the coaching. It's up to your front office to identify guys on film that can BLOCK people, get OPEN, CATCH the ball, TACKLE people, SHED blockers, HURRY passers, and play with ideal 1st step instinct. If they come here needing to be taught that at the Pro Level like Mingo (or take your pick), the teams drafting guys that don't need to learn those same essentials have a competitive advantage.
Sometimes patience is required for young players like the John Greco story here reminds us. He had a few fill-in starts for an injured starter his first 2 or 3 years in St Louis before sitting the bench his first year here. He finally found a comfortable niche at RG in 2014. This pertains to all positions. With experience comes the ability to play faster, smarter and more consistently. It's up to the coaching staff to know what guys are worth being patient with and which ones need to get their walking papers.
I like a lot of the newcomers we added this year. The more they play together - the better they will get while chemistry should improve as well. However, it's time to part with some vets long past their best football. Hate to say it, but ever since the league announced it will start to test for HGH near the end of 2014 - Paul Kruger has become less physical than Raggedy Ann. The season of 11 or 11.5 sacks feels like a lifetime ago. He also looks like a pinball wizard with the deaf, dumb and blind for a guy with his experience volume. A lot of these vets are set in there ways so when we see a Whitner consistently going for the ESPN killshot with his head down in 2015 and missing countless tackles - not only is he not coachable but he sets a bad example for our younger guys in the secondary that had a high volume of concussions last year. Coincidence? Or, was there a lot of contact being initiated with the helmet instead of the shoulder pads (with HEADS up)?
Some staffs like to use preseason as a way of showing younger guys there's a lot of adversity to overcome in this game (ie; Kessler being backed up near his goal line for 2 of his first 3 NFL drives). Nobody chose to remember the 1st drive he had with ideal field position beginning and ending with a TD pass by Kessler. Hue refused to baby his rookie QB with conservative hand-offs down there (which probably wouldn't happen in the regular season if the game counted) so it was a growing pain during a game that doesn't count on our regular season record. Some like to see how they can cover without an aggressive pass rush even if I can't tell if that was as much by design or by uh-oh. Belichick set someone straight this week about the 3rd preseason game - they don't game plan for opponents especially when roster clarity this time of year doesn't guarantee that's the starter or backup any more than how much further beyond vanilla the schemes go.
Our 2nd defensive series was on the verge of holding TB to a FG when a penalty/learning experience gave TB a first and goal for a TD instead. Our 2nd TD surrendered was on a punt return which happened to us how many times under the same STs coach in 2015? When the Detroit Lions went 0-16 in the regular season - they were undefeated in the preseason including their alleged 3rd game dress rehearsal.
Newcomers that really intrigue me:
RGIII
C. Coleman
Nassib
Alexander
Drango
Kindred (head up = opponent tackled like I said umpteen times in 2015)
Ogbah
Jones
S. Coleman
Pryor (this will be his first full year here)
Taylor (although he needs more consistently tackling people)
Hamlett
2nd year here guys I expect progress from:
Meder
Shelton
Cooper
Orchard
Pasztor (reminds me of what I saw from Schwartz his first couple years starting here. Occasional flags or sacks surrendered in pass pro but we could run outside of him.)
Duke Johnson
Erving (his vulnerability to x stunts up front on 3rd and long pass situations should improve. I'm seeing way better bend in his stance than he had out of position at OG last year)
Nice post Flugel. I was speaking with my son in law who was making some of the same points and I think we will have to show some patience.
-
We said the same last year....about who the coach inherited and all the bad picks....
and the year before...
and the year before....etc...
Fact is...Pettine WAS the coach that got an immediate turn around....then fell back the next year.....and THEN was blamed for the mess, when he had ZERO talent....his DB's were all hurt....and JFF was being forced down his throat....
You're a nice guy with endless optimism....but one only needs to look at this team to see there are no play makers and the talent is LESS this year, than it's been in a while.....
And, yes, lets blame Farmer....then be all optimistic about Orchard, Shelton, Barnidge, Crow, Cooper & Pryor....all of whom he just brought in......
We said the same last year....about who the coach inherited and all the bad picks....
and the year before...
and the year before....etc...
Fact is...Pettine WAS the coach that got an immediate turn around....then fell back the next year.....and THEN was blamed for the mess, when he had ZERO talent....his DB's were all hurt....and JFF was being forced down his throat....
You normalIy use cut and paste so I'll just cut and paste what I already clarified: 2015 came pretty freakin close considering the reality this team was 7-9 in 2014. That's why I don't think it was ALL Pettine's fault like some people want to insinuate even though it was insane to CUT Pryor (erasing some serious development time) only to bring him back so late Pettine wouldn't feel comfortable playing him. Huh??? That said, we got off to a 6-4 start WITHOUT Josh Gordon in 2014 so something had to be going right with the coaching. It's up to your front office to identify guys on film that can BLOCK people, get OPEN, CATCH the ball, TACKLE people, SHED blockers, HURRY passers, and play with ideal 1st step instinct. If they come here needing to be taught that at the Pro Level like Mingo (or take your pick), the teams drafting guys that don't need to learn those same essentials have a competitive advantage.
And you never once blamed Farmer at all when you defended Pettine throughout 2015? Really? Look at your careful wording above that says he had ZERO talent.
Let's not get so extreme and pretend Pettine didn't have an ounce of credibility though. It wasn't like Joe Haden was really struggling in life before Pettine. Neither was Whitner out in SF before he came here and got the bad habit of leading with his head all the time. People started calling him Whiffner and I think you made some comments on his decline in 2015 while it was unfolding. All our DBs sharing a large volume of concussions coincidentally also shared a bad habit of tackling with their heads down in 2015 explaining why there was also a lot of missed tackles back there too. Coaches need to be somewhat accountable if there's a trend of injuries stemming from a bad habit. Talented people can develop bad habits (Tiger Woods) especially if they're playing through an injury which is why teams employ position coaches and coordinators. 2015 was some of the worst tackling I've seen throughout our defense so I blame the guy bringing the bad tacklers here and the coaching that didn't correct guys that were good tacklers picking up bad habits. The Head Coach chooses his defensive coaches right? Some of this is on Pettine like it or not.
I would have accepted Johnny excuse if I didn't witness "Play like a Brown" regardless of injury volumes in 2014 and how few games Johnny was able to play that year. Who drafted Johnny? Oh wait, you told me not to blame the front office. BTW, Pettine didn't choose to start Manziel - McCown trying to pretend he was Larry Csonka at the goal line in the opener and other injuries he suffered thereafter was what caused him to go to the next QB on the depth chart. As soon as McCown was ready to play again, Pettine had no trouble demoting Manziel.
I'm not doing anything different here today than I ended up doing on behalf of Pettine. I gave a lot more of that blame to front office sentencing us to playing gridiron chess with pawns. The only difference here today is we're only 3 preseason games deep into this front office-head coach marriage. Let's hope it's not another War of the Roses type of divorce we just came out of.
You're a nice guy with endless optimism....
I think the same about you. Your optimism always reeled me in. You were my go-to guy for a game face when it wasn't always easy to find one. I DO get frustration because I hate losing as much as anyone. You NEVER have to prove yourself to me, which is why I don't get your unwillingness to let the Pettine thing go today. Okay, you LIKED the guy with enough passion to where you always made your pov make sense to your readers. If anything, you made me see it more your way than my way and I posted that late in 2015. Is this all you want to dwell on this year though?
but one only needs to look at this team to see there are no play makers and the talent is LESS this year, than it's been in a while.....
Again, we're only 3 preseason games deep where some starters have only played about once or twice in not very many series. I'm told Josh Gordon is back for good quite a bit and I'm finally believing that. He's had 1 game with his new QB and brand new WRs. Coleman only has limited parts of 1 preseason game to his name too. He'll score more TDs by accident than the sum of 1 by Gabriel in 2 regular seasons here.
There's also a draft volume of 14 only 3 preseason games old while most of Farmer's draftees and overpaid FAs are gone within 2 years beside a few exceptions to that rule. Our front office also added to our 2017 draft volume (including another 1st rd pick and either a 2nd rd pick).
And, yes, lets blame Farmer....then be all optimistic about Orchard, Shelton, Barnidge, Crow, Cooper & Pryor....all of whom he just brought in......
That's not exactly a giant sum after 2 years inclusive of 4 first round picks. Barnidge played here in 2013 so Farmer doesn't get the credit you want to give him here. And you left Dwayne Bowe off that list considering all that cake Farmer prioritized his way? Do the Arizona Cardinals have any more reliable TEs we can look to after the last 2 studs Farmer brought here? Who is Hartline starting for this year? Whitner? Starks? I was optimistic about Orchard and Shelton before Farmer drafted them. Crow wasn't drafted but he was the Freshman of the Year in the SEC so I like that UFA choice given we already wasted a draft pick on Terrence East-n-west.
So what do you want to accomplish with all this Mud? You want everyone to know Hue needs to be defined by his first 3 preseason games in Cleveland - no excuses will be accepted because poor Mike Pettine is the only guy that ever got unfairly scapegoated in Cleveland?
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- The following reply was for a thread that OldBrowns started that got inexplicably closed.
- Yeah... what was up with that? OBF playing with his thread's buttons?
- Yeah... what was up with that? OBF playing with his thread's buttons?
- IF it's only 4-years a la '91-'94, I'd be happy.
- In general... blocking as well as tackling... I thought I saw a lot better form.
- Should? Yes, but will it? He chases. As for bend... I'll look for improvement, but it could not be worse than it was last year when he was a jack-in-the-box. My latest concern is his level of athleticism... especially since he's "bulked up". He was in a shot of the O leaving the field last nite and broke into an awkward looking jog.
Thanks for your feedback. As for Erving, I thought his stance at Center yesterday looked like it gave him a way better chance at leverage than I saw from his stance much higher at OG in 2015. I'm looking forward to hearing what you found especially in comparison to how he looked at OG previously. I may go back and rewatch it too. He has trouble with the x stunts upfront and gave up a sack yesterday although it was out of a traditional cup protection where both OGs need to be protecting their inside as well. After practicing with TB for a couple days, that shouldn't have been real unexpected IMO.
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It's simple Fluges.....it's not that I want to harp about Pettine all season....it's that I am CONTINUING to harp that the talent is bad....
And last season, I fought passionately about preventing another reset....and what I said is proving out....so I feel passionate about it.....
Im ranting because Ive been a lifelong Browns fans and HAVE ALWAYS HAD THEIR BACKS.....until now...
I have always given the new staff time and waited patiently....and when Farmer and Pettine came in WE ALL liked them, said they were doing great(like many are doing with Hue)...me YOU and a bunch of others PRAISED Farmers picks and BOTH drafts(generally)(like you are doing wiith Sashi)......
But....without predjudice....Ive not been impressed with the new staff.....and I chose to just shut my trap about.....actually left the board and didnt even discuss the draft, just because I had nothing nice to say....
Now....I waited a bit and watched....and Im saying what I see...and Im seeing what I feared I would.....and Im seeing my predictions from last fall(the purge PT IV) come to fruition right before my very eyes....
Why is it ok for people to say good, but I cant point to the bad....which is overwhelmingly obvious....why is it ok to say things like Rashrad Higgins was an amazing pick, but I cant point out I dont see it.....
Look....if there's obvious good stuff, id mention it....which I have....ala Dominque Alexander or Derrick Kindred standing out(but only due to no one else showing up)......Nassib had 2 easy sacks, but I gave him props.....was pretty excited at how JG showed up yesterday in mid season form.....Kirksey, Orchard, Crow and Dude have all had my praises this preseason(thanks Farmer).....
But....as painful as it is for you to hear.....there is nothing Ive said that isnt true....And Im not jumping in on this imaginary love train for Hue and Shashi, because they havent done anything to instill my confidence yet.....and have done a number of things that bother me deeply.....
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Does anybody realize that our first 6 picks from last year are starting this year?
I know the team sucks....so some wouldnt be elsewhere(Erving? Cooper?)....but we ALL still have high hopes and good expectations for Cooper. Orchard, Campbell, Shelton & Duke....right?
And Crow, Bitonio and Kirksey are developing into some pretty damn good players....right?.....
So....thats a lot of starters for just 2 "Browns" drafts.....
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