Kokinis got schooled
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Solon, I agree with you 100%, We just got taken to school today, and this leads me to believe that Mangini is running everything with this team and Kokinis is just a figurehead..
Our biggest need was pass rusher and we got none, we needed a running back and we got none, a center and 2 wide receivers and a converted DE is not what I would have expected.
Tell me how many 2nd day picks make NFL rosters or any type of impact we got a bunch of 6th round picks....whoooooooooo, if we are expected to build this team into a winner with a bunch of 2nd day picks we are in BIG TROUBLE
For the people who think we were smart to pass on Rey, just remember when Rey is playing in the Pro bowl what we could have had
This team still has no identity on defense, we have no linebackers who you can say are better than average, and don't tell me about all the tackles D'Qwell makes, the playmakers in a 3-4 are the LB's and who do we have at linebacker, Wimbley=BUST, Old Man Barton, Unproven=Hall.
This draft was TERRIBLE
Tom Brady - 2000 - Round 6 - Pick 33 - #199 Overall
Matt Cassel - 2005 #230 overall
Hines Ward 1998 - Round 3 - Pick 30 - #92 Overall
T.J. Houshmandzadeh - 2001 - Round 7 - Pick 4 - #204 overall
Steve Smith - 2001 - round 3 #74 overall
Brian Westbrook - 2002 Round 3 - Pick 26 - #91 overall
Frank Gore - 2005 Round 3 - #65 Overall
Marion Barber - 2005 - round 4 - #109 overall
Brandon Jacobs - 2005 - round 4 - #110 overall
Jason Witten - 2003 Round 3 #69 Overall
Chris Cooley 3rd round
Gary Anderson - seventh round
Dante Hall - fifth round
Zach Thomas - fifth round
Joe Horn - fifth round
Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila - fifth round
Marc Bulger - round 6
Stephen Davis - round 4
Ahman Green - 3rd round
Terrell Davis - sixth round
Joey Porter - 3rd round
Lance Briggs - 3rd round
Asante Samuel - round 4
Marques Colston - 3 picks away from being "Mr irrelevant"
Shannon Sharpe - 7th Round
Jammal Anderson - 6th Round
Herschel Walker - 4th Round
Good enough?
Tom Brady - 2000 - Round 6 - Pick 33 - #199 Overall
Matt Cassel - 2005 #230 overall
Hines Ward 1998 - Round 3 - Pick 30 - #92 Overall
T.J. Houshmandzadeh - 2001 - Round 7 - Pick 4 - #204 overall
Steve Smith - 2001 - round 3 #74 overall
Brian Westbrook - 2002 Round 3 - Pick 26 - #91 overall
Frank Gore - 2005 Round 3 - #65 Overall
Marion Barber - 2005 - round 4 - #109 overall
Brandon Jacobs - 2005 - round 4 - #110 overall
Jason Witten - 2003 Round 3 #69 Overall
Chris Cooley 3rd round
Gary Anderson - seventh round
Dante Hall - fifth round
Zach Thomas - fifth round
Joe Horn - fifth round
Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila - fifth round
Marc Bulger - round 6
Stephen Davis - round 4
Ahman Green - 3rd round
Terrell Davis - sixth round
Joey Porter - 3rd round
Lance Briggs - 3rd round
Asante Samuel - round 4
Marques Colston - 3 picks away from being "Mr irrelevant"
Shannon Sharpe - 7th Round
Jammal Anderson - 6th Round
Herschel Walker - 4th Round
Good enough?
Why don't you tell many how many Browns players drafted on the 2nd day have amounted to anything?
Yea we have a Nickle back in McDonald, a RB in Harrison who gets 5 touches per game.
I love the way you guys pick out 15-20 players who have made it when there are over 1700 players on NFL rosters each year, yea its true maybe 2% of 6th round picks amount to something more than depth in the NFL
As for the trade you guys act as though we got quality players, we got 3 guys from the Jets who were going to be backups with the Jets
We should be drafting in the top 10 again next year
This draft makes me wish Butch Davis and Phil Savage was back and they were both terrible
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The sky is falling!
LOL......it's funny to read some of these comments.
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perhaps...but we should have atleast two 4th rounders instead of 6th rounders...right now. I'd take maclin, Rey, Massaqua and rashad johnson all day over Mack, robiskie,massaqua and veikune...plus the two 4th rounder we should have gotten for the trade ups....with those we could package tomorrow and get Caldwell, shonn green...but what do i know I've only done this for 26 years!
perhaps...but we should have atleast two 4th rounders instead of 6th rounders...right now. I'd take maclin, Rey, Massaqua and rashad johnson all day over Mack, robiskie,massaqua and veikune...plus the two 4th rounder we should have gotten for the trade ups....with those we could package tomorrow and get Caldwell, shonn green...but what do i know I've only done this for 26 years!
Based on what, should CLE have gotten a 4th rounder? The charts? Don't think so. CLE got the expected value for each trade.
They passed on Rey along with a bunch of other teams, including 3 that run the 3-4. I'd take Mack over Rey all day long. Look at the people takin over Rey. I think that shows teams don't think he is the player you and a few others thought, because of some big hit highlight reels.
You have been drafting for NFL teams for 26 years yet are on a message board?
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Some people have tunnel vision and can't or refuse to see outside the box.
I think some people get ticked when the professional evaluators view players and needs differently then they do.
Rey is a good example. All year long people bought in to the hype and envisioned the next Ray Lewis, yet when the rubber met the road, he was the last starting USC backer selected.
Why is that???
The answer is in the first words of this post.
Some people have tunnel vision and can't or refuse to see outside the box.
I think some people get ticked when the professional evaluators view players and needs differently then they do.
Rey is a good example. All year long people bought in to the hype and envisioned the next Ray Lewis, yet when the rubber met the road, he was the last starting USC backer selected.
Why is that???
The answer is in the first words of this post.
Right on ballpeen. I guess I wasn't crazy when I said Rey was the 3rd best LB coming out of USC, at least as seen on draft day by teams
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Let me help.
We got the best Center in the draft who can also play Guard. BTW, Pittsburgh REALLY wanted Mack. We also added 2 guys that started on the Jets D plus 3 more picks than we started the day with. Aside from that, we needed WRs and landed 2 and added an OLBer/pass rusher.
Not for nothing but when Kokinos came here he was looking at 4 draft picks for 2009. Don't forget he got 1 pick for Winslow this year and 1 more pick for Winslow next year. Kokinos & Co addressed ALOT more holes on our roster than you think today. Now we're looking at 4 more picks tomorrow. Could have been a lot worse.
- Tom F.
Flugs, I don't know where you got your information but the Steelers were not interested in taking Mack, they were going defensive line or wide receiver in the 1st round
Yea we picked up extra draft picks, but how many of these 2nd day picks are going to help this team, how many 6th round picks make NFL rosters
We got a average safety and backup defensive end from the jets, 2 guys who are stop gap players for a few years
Why pick 2 receivers when this team needed a running back to replace tip toe Lewis and a pass rusher that we still don't have
If this could have been worse I would have hate to see what these CLOWNS would have done
I did not like the Mangini hiring and after today I like it less
Seems to me Mangini is coach and GM and Kokinis just has a title but Mangini is the person making most of the decisions, thought I heard Lerner say after Butch Davis he did'nt want one person with all the power.
Flugs, I don't know where you got your information but the Steelers were not interested in taking Mack,
Look at every mock draft, reports coming out of PIT, every PIT paper, and the fact they only have one C on their depth chart. There was a high chance PIT was going to take Mack at 32
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As someone who knows the three players received from the Jets well....I can tell you that you got two bona fide starters and a legitimate backup QB in addition to the second round pick. THEY FLEECED THE JETS not the other way around.
All of these guys have character to bring to a locker room that's in need of it.
Alex Mack is intelligent and tough as they come. Maualuga has serious off the field issues. Get over it. No wonder he went to Cincy.
By the way....Jennings is still on the board in the fourth....so second would be a reach.
For a team that only had four draft picks...they've parlayed them into four starters. Well done Mr. Kokinis.
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I dont need your help...but thanks...maybe i was bein a little harse but I thought you liked rey...maybe that was someone else. The Tampa trade is the leverage we had and lost...Tampa WANTED freeman...we could have said unless we get a fourth, we'll let Denver take him then hung up....they'd have called back. anyway now that the dust has settled for me...its an OK draft...Robiskie will be a nice # 2 who knows what we have in Massaqua....seems like "Quincy" hands a real possibility ...but I'm still disapointed we didn't get alonzo smith, or connor barwin or rey, or le sean mccoy, shonn green etc....
Tampa wanted Freeman and were likely to get him. They just GUARANTEED it by giving us the 6th. Chances were slim Denver was taking him which is why it was only a 6th. We could have followed your plan and got NOTHING in return and still picked Mack at 19. Then you would have said "I can't believe Kokinis picked Mack in the top 20! What an idiot!"
You do realize we weren't going to get ALL those guys you mentioned, right? We took the best WR left on the board and the one who is arguably the most ready to be a pro. He's a Mangini guy through-and-through. How can you seriously hate on this pick?
As for Shonne Greene, you also realize he wasn't picked at ALL yesterday, right? Meaning, he's still available?
Just curious: were you drinking heavily before you posted this thread?
Tampa wanted Freeman and were likely to get him. They just GUARANTEED it by giving us the 6th. Chances were slim Denver was taking him which is why it was only a 6th. We could have followed your plan and got NOTHING in return and still picked Mack at 19. Then you would have said "I can't believe Kokinis picked Mack in the top 20! What an idiot!"
You do realize we weren't going to get ALL those guys you mentioned, right? We took the best WR left on the board and the one who is arguably the most ready to be a pro. He's a Mangini guy through-and-through. How can you seriously hate on this pick?
As for Shonne Greene, you also realize he wasn't picked at ALL yesterday, right? Meaning, he's still available?
Just curious: were you drinking heavily before you posted this thread?
Watever dude ....go change your diapers little boy.
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Tampa wanted Freeman and were likely to get him. They just GUARANTEED it by giving us the 6th. Chances were slim Denver was taking him which is why it was only a 6th. We could have followed your plan and got NOTHING in return and still picked Mack at 19. Then you would have said "I can't believe Kokinis picked Mack in the top 20! What an idiot!"
You do realize we weren't going to get ALL those guys you mentioned, right? We took the best WR left on the board and the one who is arguably the most ready to be a pro. He's a Mangini guy through-and-through. How can you seriously hate on this pick?
As for Shonne Greene, you also realize he wasn't picked at ALL yesterday, right? Meaning, he's still available?
Just curious: were you drinking heavily before you posted this thread?
Watever dude ....go change your diapers little boy.
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compared to what NE got...and the other trades...kokinis got schooled especially in regard to Sanchez trade...a second rounder and a saftey& two backups? The Rookie showed his colors today...we got a 6th for tampa movin up to 17...short changed...a 6th for phily movin up to 19....Ne gets a 5th for baltimore to move up to 23.... schooled!!!
Would you rather have Maclin, Rey, (massaqua) and rashard johnson??/ i sure as hell would
Solon, I agree with you 100%, We just got taken to school today, and this leads me to believe that Mangini is running everything with this team and Kokinis is just a figurehead..
Our biggest need was pass rusher and we got none, we needed a running back and we got none, a center and 2 wide receivers and a converted DE is not what I would have expected.
Tell me how many 2nd day picks make NFL rosters or any type of impact, we got a bunch of 6th round picks....whoooooooooo, if we are expected to build this team into a winner with a bunch of 2nd day picks we are in BIG TROUBLE
For the people who think we were smart to pass on Rey, just remember when Rey is playing in the Pro bowl what we could have had
This team still has no identity on defense, we have no linebackers who you can say are better than average, and don't tell me about all the tackles D'Qwell makes, the playmakers in a 3-4 are the LB's and who do we have at linebacker, Wimbley=BUST, Old Man Barton, Unproven=Hall.
This draft was TERRIBLE
Solon, I agree with you 100%, We just got taken to school today, and this leads me to believe that Mangini is running everything with this team and Kokinis is just a figurehead..
Our biggest need was pass rusher and we got none, we needed a running back and we got none, a center and 2 wide receivers and a converted DE is not what I would have expected.
Tell me how many 2nd day picks make NFL rosters or any type of impact, we got a bunch of 6th round picks....whoooooooooo, if we are expected to build this team into a winner with a bunch of 2nd day picks we are in BIG TROUBLE
For the people who think we were smart to pass on Rey, just remember when Rey is playing in the Pro bowl what we could have had
This team still has no identity on defense, we have no linebackers who you can say are better than average, and don't tell me about all the tackles D'Qwell makes, the playmakers in a 3-4 are the LB's and who do we have at linebacker, Wimbley=BUST, Old Man Barton, Unproven=Hall.
This draft was TERRIBLE
It wasn't terrible...it is pretty good actually...but Machlin, alphonso Smith and robiskie/Massaqua/, and shonn green would have been much better Caldwell with the 4th or luigs with fourth at C....Machlin is a top 10 talent that could have been gotten at #19.
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Masters said:
Says the person running around throwing a hissy fit about the picks and tradePlease don't ever respond to me again....u streetstucky hillbilly
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one guy ??? Not one.... Mack wasn't bad pick....I would rather have Machlin....Robiskie ...not bad pick...rather have darius Butler or Alphonso smith...massaqua??? rather have Shonn green...Veikune...depends where he plays... I hope it is ILB. We'll C...as to the rest???? Typical golfer material.
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OH yeah Rey at #36 as well....better hope our corners stay healthy...P.S who's gonna play Nickle?
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@jadbf said:
Or some kid they pick with one of thier 6th rounders..There is always that too. But with the addition of Elam, Adams can now be the backup FS and be the slot man if desired. McDonald isn't actually that bad and could be really effective covering the slot. CB is not really a need for CLE coming into the draft. It was a nice to have. It's funny how the experts who said it was a need a year ago were saying CLE could have a potential great combo with McDonald/Wright.
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Some people have tunnel vision and can't or refuse to see outside the box.
I think some people get ticked when the professional evaluators view players and needs differently then they do.
Rey is a good example. All year long people bought in to the hype and envisioned the next Ray Lewis, yet when the rubber met the road, he was the last starting USC backer selected.
Why is that???
The answer is in the first words of this post.
Right on ballpeen. I guess I wasn't crazy when I said Rey was the 3rd best LB coming out of USC, at least as seen on draft day by teams
Masters said:
Right on ballpeen. I guess I wasn't crazy when I said Rey was the 3rd best LB coming out of USC, at least as seen on draft day by teamsA few years down the road we will all know who the 3rd rated backer out of USC is. Maybe we just got him in Maiava. time will tell.
And, my friend, you weren't crazy according to NFL GMs taht run a 3-4 defense.
People don't realize how much better Mack will make Steinbach and Hadnot/Tucker/Womack. Last year they had to provide help and there was no getting up field to the second level on running plays and teams were getting push right up the middle and that won't happen now. Plus the QB will actually have WRs to throw the ball to. I don't think teams will be able to play 8 in the box and single our WRs.
Should be a lot of smiles in Berea.
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compared to what NE got...and the other trades...kokinis got schooled especially in regard to Sanchez trade...a second rounder and a saftey& two backups? The Rookie showed his colors today...we got a 6th for tampa movin up to 17...short changed...a 6th for phily movin up to 19....Ne gets a 5th for baltimore to move up to 23.... schooled!!!
Would you rather have Maclin, Rey, (massaqua) and rashard johnson??/ i sure as hell would
Solon, I agree with you 100%, We just got taken to school today, and this leads me to believe that Mangini is running everything with this team and Kokinis is just a figurehead..
Our biggest need was pass rusher and we got none, we needed a running back and we got none, a center and 2 wide receivers and a converted DE is not what I would have expected.
Tell me how many 2nd day picks make NFL rosters or any type of impact, we got a bunch of 6th round picks....whoooooooooo, if we are expected to build this team into a winner with a bunch of 2nd day picks we are in BIG TROUBLE
For the people who think we were smart to pass on Rey, just remember when Rey is playing in the Pro bowl what we could have had
This team still has no identity on defense, we have no linebackers who you can say are better than average, and don't tell me about all the tackles D'Qwell makes, the playmakers in a 3-4 are the LB's and who do we have at linebacker, Wimbley=BUST, Old Man Barton, Unproven=Hall.
This draft was TERRIBLE
Solon, I agree with you 100%, We just got taken to school today, and this leads me to believe that Mangini is running everything with this team and Kokinis is just a figurehead..
Our biggest need was pass rusher and we got none, we needed a running back and we got none, a center and 2 wide receivers and a converted DE is not what I would have expected.
Tell me how many 2nd day picks make NFL rosters or any type of impact, we got a bunch of 6th round picks....whoooooooooo, if we are expected to build this team into a winner with a bunch of 2nd day picks we are in BIG TROUBLE
For the people who think we were smart to pass on Rey, just remember when Rey is playing in the Pro bowl what we could have had
This team still has no identity on defense, we have no linebackers who you can say are better than average, and don't tell me about all the tackles D'Qwell makes, the playmakers in a 3-4 are the LB's and who do we have at linebacker, Wimbley=BUST, Old Man Barton, Unproven=Hall.
This draft was TERRIBLE
Since when do you work for the Browns and know their biggest need? When did ManKok fill you in on their plans for the team and what they perceive as the biggest needs of the team? Once again, another whiney little bitch because they didn't pick who you liked and you refuse to even wait and see what gets put on the field.
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I know how you guys feel about Maualuga.....but you'll get to watch him twice a year for a Long time!
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