Draft Talk

The Gipper

@gftchris said:

I like him, and I'm beginning to think that the biggest upgrade this O could receive is at QB, so could be talked into doing it.

Meaning, there are enough parts on the OL for it to be functional (perhaps bringing in a draft/FA center or moving Greco there, or rolling with Reiter); Crow and Johnson can be good enough behind such an OL; Pryor and Coleman should only get better; Barnidge isn't going to let you down.

So the single biggest difference that could be made to the O is getting a good QB.

Now, someone is getting it. QBs are always a premium. And getting the best one at #1 is the best way to go, in my opinion.

I mean, look at the history of the league. QB has gone #1 overall most often for a reason.

Have there been some epic busts? Yes....but more quality QBs have been taken at #1 overall than at any other draft slot....going all the way back.

The Gipper

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I think I've firmly switched over to the Garrett + whoever camp. If that's Garrett + Trubisky...that's great. If it's Garrett + Kizer, I'll take it.

Here's a no trade draft I would take:

Your score is: 9853 (GRADE: A-)

Your Picks:

Round 1 Pick 1: Myles Garrett, DE/OLB, Texas A&M (A+)

Round 1 Pick 11: Dalvin Cook, RB, Florida State (A)

Round 2 Pick 1: Mitch Trubisky, QB, North Carolina (A+) Why in fucking hell would you pick a guy that is likely to go in the Top 3 overall to last until round 2? Hello! McFly. Is anybody home?

Round 2 Pick 14: O.J. Howard, TE, Alabama (A)

Round 3 Pick 1: Marcus Maye, FS, Florida (A-)

Round 4 Pick 1: Kyle Fuller, C, Baylor (

Round 5 Pick 30: Ryan Switzer, WR, North Carolina (A+)

Round 6 Pick 1: Damontae Kazee, CB, San Diego State (

There's no way in fuck it happens, though.

The Gipper

@jiggins7919 said:

You and the rest of the world. It's so hard to know just what these spread-option type QB's can do. Can he throw? Hell yes. Can he run? Hell yes. Can he hang tough in the pocket, digest the information, and fire accurate footballs under the toughest of circumstances? No clue. LOL.

Watson throws a gorgeous deep ball, can run like the wind, and has plenty of oomph behind the throws to get the ball wherever he wants it. He's a fascinating prospect...but he scares me. That Clemson offense is designed to get defenses out of position and take advantage of all kinds of misdirection. That shit won't fly in the NFL. That being said, the Browns offense would have a similar look to it with Watson as it did last night with RG III. Well, minus the atrocious passing. Watson can definitely run that read-option run play, and has more than enough speed to keep the ball and tuck it up field. I need to stop writing before I talk myself into wanting this kid.

While I am also intrigued by Watson.....I just wonder if he isn't actually RGIV.

hoorta

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I think I've firmly switched over to the Garrett + whoever camp. If that's Garrett + Trubisky...that's great. If it's Garrett + Kizer, I'll take it.

Here's a no trade draft I would take:

Your score is: 9853 (GRADE: A-)

Your Picks:

Round 1 Pick 1: Myles Garrett, DE/OLB, Texas A&M (A+)

Round 1 Pick 11: Dalvin Cook, RB, Florida State (A)

Round 2 Pick 1: Mitch Trubisky, QB, North Carolina (A+)

Round 2 Pick 14: O.J. Howard, TE, Alabama (A)

Round 3 Pick 1: Marcus Maye, FS, Florida (A-)

Round 4 Pick 1: Kyle Fuller, C, Baylor (

Round 5 Pick 30: Ryan Switzer, WR, North Carolina (A+)

Round 6 Pick 1: Damontae Kazee, CB, San Diego State (

There's no way in fuck it happens, though.

As Gip mentioned- at this point in the mock game, no way Mitch will last until #33. Kizer scares me. He's big, and from what I've seen- not very good. IIRC, he got benched for a game.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@hoorta said:

As Gip mentioned- at this point in the mock game, no way Mitch will last until #33. Kizer scares me. He's big, and from what I've seen- not very good. IIRC, he got benched for a game.

Individually, he's talented. Extremely talented. The Notre Dame offense is kind of just terrible as a whole and his receivers, for the most part, fucked him on many occasions this year. He's played pretty decent and his benching is because Brian Kelly doesn't stick with QB's. He did it with Golson and Zaire as well, he would just shuffle through them.

IMO Kizer is in the same boat as Carr was. He possesses literally every single thing you'd like to see in a franchise QB - he's intelligent, tall, strong, can make every throw, athletic and elusive. And he has the nuts to make contested throws, just like Big Ben does every week. Better still, he has the ability to pull these throws off, often putting it where only his receiver can get it. Unfortunately, his receivers aren't coming through.

Take this throw, for example. Kizer's RT (and RB) whiff hardcore on the DE, giving him a free fire lane to the QB. Kizer steps inside, muscles through the tackle and rifles a strike to a receiver who is pretty well covered, but he puts it in a place where only the receiver can get it....and hits his guy in the hands. Then his guy drops it. That's an NFL level play through and through, until his WR shits his pants.

Or this one - Kizer drops one in a bucket behind quasi-prevent coverage as the half expires. Everyone in the stadium knows they are going deep and Kizer is still able to overthrow the deep safeties and get the ball to his WR in the endzone.....and he drops it.

This is an example of his TE coming through for him. Kizer evades an arm tackle on a collapsing pocket, steps up and delivers a 35 yard strike to his TE, who's running a nice seam route against man coverage. The TE has isolated the defender with his body and Kizer puts the ball right where it needs to be, despite the dirty pocket and taking a shot as he throws.

These are just a few good examples, he's got more than a few bad plays under his belt. But those three plays, from the same game, are glimpses at how great Kizer can be at the pro level. When's the last time we had a legitimate QB who made any of those throws? The only person who I'd even dare to say could make those plays is Josh McCown...and Kizer is 40 years younger than him.

darren15

Your Picks:

Round 1 Pick 1: Myles Garrett, DE/OLB, Texas A&M (A+)

Round 1 Pick 11: Cam Robinson, OT, Alabama (A)

Round 2 Pick 1: DeShone Kizer, QB, Notre Dame (B+)

Round 2 Pick 14: Taco Charlton, DE, Michigan (A)

Round 3 Pick 1: Tre'Davious White, CB, LSU (A)

Round 4 Pick 1: Wayne Gallman, RB, Clemson (A-)

Round 5 Pick 30: Vincent Taylor, DT, Oklahoma State (B+)

Round 6 Pick 1: Kenny Golladay, WR, Northern Illinois (

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@darren15 said:

Your Picks:

Round 1 Pick 1: Myles Garrett, DE/OLB, Texas A&M (A+)

Round 1 Pick 11: Cam Robinson, OT, Alabama (A)

Round 2 Pick 1: DeShone Kizer, QB, Notre Dame (B+)

Round 2 Pick 14: Taco Charlton, DE, Michigan (A)

Round 3 Pick 1: Tre'Davious White, CB, LSU (A)

Round 4 Pick 1: Wayne Gallman, RB, Clemson (A-)

Round 5 Pick 30: Vincent Taylor, DT, Oklahoma State (B+)

Round 6 Pick 1: Kenny Golladay, WR, Northern Illinois (

That would be ideal, but Cam won't fall to 11 and Kizer won't fall to the second.

For the sake of this draft game, though, I wouldn't mind:

Round 1 Pick 1: Myles Garrett, DE/OLB, Texas A&M (A+)

Round 1 Pick 11: Leonard Fournette, RB, LSU (A+)

Round 2 Pick 1: DeShone Kizer, QB, Notre Dame (B+)

Round 2 Pick 14: O.J. Howard, TE, Alabama (A)

Round 3 Pick 1: Tyler Orlosky, C, West Virginia (A)

Round 4 Pick 1: Malachi Dupre, WR, LSU (

Round 5 Pick 30: David Jones, FS, Richmond (A)

Round 6 Pick 1: Damontae Kazee, CB, San Diego State (

Garrett, Fournette and Howard are all the top of their respective positions (though I think Dalvin Cook may be the best RB out there). Dupre has the potential to be a very good NFL WR and likely will be taken before the 4th. The rest, I could give or take.

Tour2ma

For Kizer you have to look at some of his 2015 tape...

wargograw

@tour2ma said:

Can easily happen in a half as well...

Great value pick and one I think would fill a niche where we are weak despite the "multitudes" at the position.

That does strike me as good value but I will honestly be pissed off if we take a single wide out in this draft.

wargograw

@jiggins7919 said:

You and the rest of the world. It's so hard to know just what these spread-option type QB's can do. Can he throw? Hell yes. Can he run? Hell yes. Can he hang tough in the pocket, digest the information, and fire accurate footballs under the toughest of circumstances? No clue. LOL.

Watson throws a gorgeous deep ball, can run like the wind, and has plenty of oomph behind the throws to get the ball wherever he wants it. He's a fascinating prospect...but he scares me. That Clemson offense is designed to get defenses out of position and take advantage of all kinds of misdirection. That shit won't fly in the NFL. That being said, the Browns offense would have a similar look to it with Watson as it did last night with RG III. Well, minus the atrocious passing. Watson can definitely run that read-option run play, and has more than enough speed to keep the ball and tuck it up field. I need to stop writing before I talk myself into wanting this kid.

They are also significantly more talented than every team they play regularly, with the exception of FSU. That said, he does have film against Auburn and Alabama to pore over, plus is about to get Ohio State (and maybe Alabama again).

So basically my point here is complete moot lol. Gonna hit "add reply" anyway.

The Gipper

Here is a partial mock:

Round 1, pick 1: Mitch Trubisky QB NC

Round 1, pick 11: Tim Williams OLB Alabama

Round 2, pick 33: Eric Pocic OC LSU

Round 2, pick 46: Jourdan Lewis CB Michigan (will be better pure coverage than Peppers)

Round 3, pick 65: Justin Evans SS Texas A&M

Round 4, pick 97: Zack Banner, OG USC

Round 5, pick 158: Pharoah Brown TE Oregon

Round 6 pick 160: Tarell Bashan DE Ohio U.

wargograw

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I'm high on his character, but thats really it. I was intrigued by his fantastic performance last season, but I didn't see enough this season to warrant a first round selection on him. As Tour stated, injury has me a little worried. I think he's gonna be a decent pro, but I personally don't see him carrying over the gamechanging potential he has displayed in the NCAA. I think he's a good fit for a mild-climate or dome team with spread tendencies, who can more easily integrate read-option plays here and there. People like to say the read option isn't viable in the NFL, but I have to disagree. When used as a complimentary piece to an offense you are already adept at running, it creates a new wrinkle for defenses to game plan for. The problem lies in molding your offense strictly around the read option or running a more traditional offense and trying to add in read-option tendencies.

If Watson can land with a team like, say, New Orleans...I think he'll have a crazy amount of success. That roster is built for the spread, they have athletic offensive linemen who are versed in the system and a stable of receivers and runningbacks who can operate in space. Watson should have no trouble there. But if he were to go a New York or Houston, I don't see that working in his favor at all.

Kiffin seems to have done an interesting marriage of the read-option and pro style this year.

wargograw

TCPO, you're not attracted to the more value-based non-Garrett pass rushers? Williams, Barnett, Lawson.

PoeticG

It's all going to depend on who is available when that team that has a need is up. There might be ten players that are worthy of being top five guys but as you know, only five of them are going to be top five guys. Then if that #6 team decided that the best player available has now come from a different position. That player might drop down the board and maybe right out the first round.

It doesn't matter where you are projected to be taken, a first round player is picked in the first round.

Wasn't there a first round kicker somewhere back there?

Let's find the guys that will make us better functionally. We have to find that player/players that can elevate the team around them.

Is anyone doubting that the Browns would have the capital to move anywhere from #10-14(eagles pick) up to number 2 to secure the future of this organization. I don't care about the cost, there isn't a price that I'm unwilling to pay- if I'm 100% certain that there are two players in this draft that can turn this thing around, why not?

Let's say that this Trubisky kid is the real deal. Let's say he blows away the combine, puts up great numbers, passes flawlessly at his pro-day, says all the right things and answers all the tough questions. He's the guy. His ability on the football field makes the guys play harder and block longer. His receivers rave about his catchable balls and his leadership. Most importantly he wills the team to wins.

Let us also say there is a guy on defense that plays much like a man playing amongst boys. He faster, he's stronger, he's just plain out better than everyone else. Not only that but he's quick cheetah like reflexes slip him past the lumbering lineman to fiercely destroy any poor soul he catches with their hands on his football. With a player like this the entire Defense benefits from his presence. The impact he makes classifies him as a game-changer.

If there are two guys like that what about giving like #10, 2 - #2s and a fourth this year and a 2nd and a third next year?

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@wargograw said:
TCPO, you're not attracted to the more value-based non-Garrett pass rushers? Williams, Barnett, Lawson.

I like their on-field production almost as much as Garrett's and I'd be more inclined to go the Williams route if it weren't for Garrett's off-field personality and mentality. Granted, it may just be media overblowing things, but he gives off that Joe Thomas vibe to me - a laid back, non off-field threat, superstar who a fanbase can truly rally around.

Unfortunately, that torch is going to have to be passed here soon. Haden is okay, but he doesn't carry the same sort of reverence that JT does. I feel like Garrett could fill those shoes in terms of fan-favorite, all around great and talented player. Will he be a 9x Pro Bowler? That's a question I can't answer.

One thing that can't be discounted is reverence...or star power...or whatever you want to call it. I truly believe that it can equate to on-field production; its part of the reason why some guys can have monumental years and then collapse. What a lot of people sometimes fail to realize is that it takes two people to make a play. Sometimes, guys are beat before the play even starts just because they think they are. Garrett, so far, carries that kind of power in college. If he can bring that to the NFL, it would be worth the #1 pick for me, for sure.

There are 20 QBs in the league who can throw the ball better than Cam Newton, yet he's still the reigning MVP. There's a ton of other stuff that goes into that, but star power is definitely one of them.

secondwave

On a side note, I'll take Myles Garrett who's 2 years younger than Tim Williams.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@poeticg said:

It's all going to depend on who is available when that team that has a need is up. There might be ten players that are worthy of being top five guys but as you know, only five of them are going to be top five guys. Then if that #6 team decided that the best player available has now come from a different position. That player might drop down the board and maybe right out the first round.

It doesn't matter where you are projected to be taken, a first round player is picked in the first round.

Wasn't there a first round kicker somewhere back there?

Let's find the guys that will make us better functionally. We have to find that player/players that can elevate the team around them.

Is anyone doubting that the Browns would have the capital to move anywhere from #10-14(eagles pick) up to number 2 to secure the future of this organization. I don't care about the cost, there isn't a price that I'm unwilling to pay- if I'm 100% certain that there are two players in this draft that can turn this thing around, why not?

Let's say that this Trubisky kid is the real deal. Let's say he blows away the combine, puts up great numbers, passes flawlessly at his pro-day, says all the right things and answers all the tough questions. He's the guy. His ability on the football field makes the guys play harder and block longer. His receivers rave about his catchable balls and his leadership. Most importantly he wills the team to wins.

Let us also say there is a guy on defense that plays much like a man playing amongst boys. He faster, he's stronger, he's just plain out better than everyone else. Not only that but he's quick cheetah like reflexes slip him past the lumbering lineman to fiercely destroy any poor soul he catches with their hands on his football. With a player like this the entire Defense benefits from his presence. The impact he makes classifies him as a game-changer.

If there are two guys like that what about giving like #10, 2 - #2s and a fourth this year and a 2nd and a third next year?

No

Canton Dawg

@tour2ma said:

Here ya go, Ag...

Browns have 'astronomical grade' on Texas A&M's Myles Garrett, per source

Adam Schefter ESPN Senior Writer As the 0-12 Cleveland Browns get closer to clinching the No. 1 overall draft pick, there is a real chance that the team will not use its top selection on a quarterback.The Browns have what one source close to the situation described as an "astronomical grade" on Texas A&M defensive end Myles Garrett, a blue-chip prospect who could dramatically upgrade Cleveland's defense. The Browns are enamored with Garrett, according to the source.
Then again it is Schefter...

Ken Carmen said. . .

The Browns have an extremely high grade on a player who measures extremely high.

Welcome to progress.

Tour2ma

Seems like our First-Pick game is all over the Edge prospects...

Seeing them go as 3 of the first 4... 5 of the first 10 pretty regularly.

wargograw

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I like their on-field production almost as much as Garrett's and I'd be more inclined to go the Williams route if it weren't for Garrett's off-field personality and mentality. Granted, it may just be media overblowing things, but he gives off that Joe Thomas vibe to me - a laid back, non off-field threat, superstar who a fanbase can truly rally around.

Unfortunately, that torch is going to have to be passed here soon. Haden is okay, but he doesn't carry the same sort of reverence that JT does. I feel like Garrett could fill those shoes in terms of fan-favorite, all around great and talented player. Will he be a 9x Pro Bowler? That's a question I can't answer.

One thing that can't be discounted is reverence...or star power...or whatever you want to call it. I truly believe that it can equate to on-field production; its part of the reason why some guys can have monumental years and then collapse. What a lot of people sometimes fail to realize is that it takes two people to make a play. Sometimes, guys are beat before the play even starts just because they think they are. Garrett, so far, carries that kind of power in college. If he can bring that to the NFL, it would be worth the #1 pick for me, for sure.

There are 20 QBs in the league who can throw the ball better than Cam Newton, yet he's still the reigning MVP. There's a ton of other stuff that goes into that, but star power is definitely one of them.

Problem with your comparison is that most OL are laid back dudes. I had a buddy that started at DE next to Aaron Donald and he always laughs about how OL are a different breed. Shove them after a play--most of them don't do anything. Talk about their mothers--same thing. Try the same stuff with a front 7 player and see what happens.

Joe fits that mold. Garrett does too, but he's at a position where you have to be an animal.