This Draft.......YAAAWWWNNN!!!!
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You can spin this in a hundred different way's. but the bottom line is the Browns drafted, nobody with impact...
No skilled positions to mention...No Impact Defensive people......OK, a somewhat noteable canter...yippeee frickin dooo..
and some sloppy seconds from the Jets......OK they increased the draft number of players but what did they really get?...
The answer my friends will blow in the November wind in Cleveland stadium when once again they will have nothing to show for this draft......
Very disappointed in what they could have gotten and what they really received......
I guess I'll start looking for that Center's Jersey soon...in the sporting good stores......
Ok, I don't want to be "that guy." But, then again, who am I kidding? I am that guy. I warned you all about this 3 months ago. This draft is, in my opinion, exactly what the Browns needed to do.
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php...t=0&start=0
Aside from over-valuing Everette Brown (as many of us did), I'm pretty comfortable with my original take on it. According to reports, Alex Mack was the player that the Browns targeted from the get-go, and he probably should've been. They may have taken him 3 or 4 picks too early, but that's where they were. And, it kept them ahead of Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Buffalo who had all worked him out in the days leading up to the draft.
Now whether or not you agree that the Browns should've been targeting Alex Mack is another question. But you can't argue with a front office that finds their guy and picks up 2 starters and 3 extra draft picks on their way to get him.
The thing that baffles me is all of this clamor for Rey Maualuga. Rey's an intriguing guy, but what were the Browns going to do with him?
According to ESPN's John Clayton, the Browns had three "untouchable" players going into the offseason: Joe Thomas, D'Qwell Jackson, and Josh Cribbs. So, once the Browns signed Eric Barton to play the Ted linebacker spot, ILB was no longer a hot position of need heading into the draft.
Look at the position the Browns were in Saturday evening when round 2 rolled around. If you just compare Brian Robiskie to Rey Maualuga, it's really easy. You draft Robiskie. Brian Robiskie is the Browns #2 receiver today... and I mean right now. He's your X, on day 1. He comes pre-packaged ready to play. Maualuga... eh, well... special teams, maybe he pushes Barton for playing time, but he's not going to start. Maybe he finds a niche as a nickel backer, if he can wrest that job away from Leon Williams. But how much better are you for it?
While I appreciate building for the future, and all of that Quadrant 2 thinking for you Covey disciples out there, we have to keep in mind that the Browns have to play sixteen games starting this September.
Had Clay Matthews been there at 36... maybe, the conversation is a bit different. But I'm not sure it doesn't end up the same way. But with only Conner Barwin on the board (who the Browns were NOT interested in), and David Vekuine (who would likely be there throughout Round 2) at that DE/OLB position, linebacker was out of the picture.
Now, the McCoy/Robiskie thing is a bit tougher to reason through... but not too tough. Really, it hinges on what Mangini thinks of the two backs he has on the roster right now. The Mangini (Belichick actually) 2 back system is already present in Cleveland. It's likely that Jamal Lewis will see his touches reduced, or at least more selective. Jerome Harrison will almost surely see his carries (and catches) increase dramatically... which also leads me to believe that Derek Anderson won't be running this offense, but that's another post for another thread.
Anyway, my point is, the Browns need to look for Lewis' successor, not Harrison's replacement. Which is why McCoy was not on the Browns' radar... and that year in prep school, and that 11 on the Wonderlic didn't help.
I've been told by people that I believe to know these sorts of things, that the Browns were working overnight to package picks to move up into Round 3 to get Shonn Greene out of Iowa But he came off way too early, nixing the deal. Secondarily, there was some discussion about packaging 6th round picks to get up into the 5th for Andre Brown (NC State), but, he was plucked late in the 4th.
Davis, was more of an availability pick. But, that said, on most boards he carried much better than a 6th round grade.
So, the Browns spent Sunday gathering up secondary depth and a special teamer, and took a flyer on a running back who has some skills. But look at that day one. Name one other team that went into Draft Weekend with the kind of needs that the Browns did and came away with 4 starters, a package pass rusher, and a solid competitor for the slot receiver position.
That's a pretty good weekend as far as I can tell.
-jj
Ok, I don't want to be "that guy." But, then again, who am I kidding? I am that guy. I warned you all about this 3 months ago. This draft is, in my opinion, exactly what the Browns needed to do.
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php...t=0&start=0
Aside from over-valuing Everette Brown (as many of us did), I'm pretty comfortable with my original take on it. According to reports, Alex Mack was the player that the Browns targeted from the get-go, and he probably should've been. They may have taken him 3 or 4 picks too early, but that's where they were. And, it kept them ahead of Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Buffalo who had all worked him out in the days leading up to the draft.
Now whether or not you agree that the Browns should've been targeting Alex Mack is another question. But you can't argue with a front office that finds their guy and picks up 2 starters and 3 extra draft picks on their way to get him.
The thing that baffles me is all of this clamor for Rey Maualuga. Rey's an intriguing guy, but what were the Browns going to do with him?
According to ESPN's John Clayton, the Browns had three "untouchable" players going into the offseason: Joe Thomas, D'Qwell Jackson, and Josh Cribbs. So, once the Browns signed Eric Barton to play the Ted linebacker spot, ILB was no longer a hot position of need heading into the draft.
Look at the position the Browns were in Saturday evening when round 2 rolled around. If you just compare Brian Robiskie to Rey Maualuga, it's really easy. You draft Robiskie. Brian Robiskie is the Browns #2 receiver today... and I mean right now. He's your X, on day 1. He comes pre-packaged ready to play. Maualuga... eh, well... special teams, maybe he pushes Barton for playing time, but he's not going to start. Maybe he finds a niche as a nickel backer, if he can wrest that job away from Leon Williams. But how much better are you for it?
While I appreciate building for the future, and all of that Quadrant 2 thinking for you Covey disciples out there, we have to keep in mind that the Browns have to play sixteen games starting this September.
Had Clay Matthews been there at 36... maybe, the conversation is a bit different. But I'm not sure it doesn't end up the same way. But with only Conner Barwin on the board (who the Browns were NOT interested in), and David Vekuine (who would likely be there throughout Round 2) at that DE/OLB position, linebacker was out of the picture.
Now, the McCoy/Robiskie thing is a bit tougher to reason through... but not too tough. Really, it hinges on what Mangini thinks of the two backs he has on the roster right now. The Mangini (Belichick actually) 2 back system is already present in Cleveland. It's likely that Jamal Lewis will see his touches reduced, or at least more selective. Jerome Harrison will almost surely see his carries (and catches) increase dramatically... which also leads me to believe that Derek Anderson won't be running this offense, but that's another post for another thread.
Anyway, my point is, the Browns need to look for Lewis' successor, not Harrison's replacement. Which is why McCoy was not on the Browns' radar... and that year in prep school, and that 11 on the Wonderlic didn't help.
I've been told by people that I believe to know these sorts of things, that the Browns were working overnight to package picks to move up into Round 3 to get Shonn Greene out of Iowa But he came off way too early, nixing the deal. Secondarily, there was some discussion about packaging 6th round picks to get up into the 5th for Andre Brown (NC State), but, he was plucked late in the 4th.
Davis, was more of an availability pick. But, that said, on most boards he carried much better than a 6th round grade.
So, the Browns spent Sunday gathering up secondary depth and a special teamer, and took a flyer on a running back who has some skills. But look at that day one. Name one other team that went into Draft Weekend with the kind of needs that the Browns did and came away with 4 starters, a package pass rusher, and a solid competitor for the slot receiver position.
That's a pretty good weekend as far as I can tell.
-jj
That is pretty much what I wanted to here from ESPN LOL - but I live in Florida and only get to hear about the Whannhpa Bay BuccaTears, the Cryami Dolphins and the wacksonville Faguars - Hometown Euclid though - goodtimes - Go Brownies!
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For the love of god, Shut the hell up and root for another team....How in the hell can you rate this draft without even a regular season game being played. GMP i sure don't see you a GM of anyone except your fantasy football team, and I bet that is mediocre at best. We drafted a bunch of players that might contribute. Do you think that drafting a "potential" superstar would put us over the edge? One thing I have become customed to this board is the constant bitching....Let this play out........Enuff said....
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Agree with some of what you said JJ ...two things !st on Rey...you stated"three "untouchable" players going into the offseason: Joe Thomas, D'Qwell Jackson, and Josh Cribbs." That to me is dependant on your view of DQwell...I think he doesn't not belong in a 3-4 and gets swallowed up in traffic, isn't impactful at the line of scrimmage, horrible blitzer and with Shaun Rogers ahead of you is unexcusable....so thats why I clamored for Rey at #36...we will regret it ......second....Clint Sintim was there and better the Veikune imo... was a stretch to take a potential Non- Starter in Second...we aren't the patriots and can't afford such luxuries... JMO
Right or wrong, Sintim and Veikune have similar measurables. They're about the same size, both run in the 4.75 - 4.80 range. They were both productive pass rushers. The difference, and there's really no debating this, is that Veikune is a much brighter guy.
Now, I don't know if that makes you a better football player (that is up for debate), but it doesn't hurt. And all things being equal, if I was going to run a defense the way Mangini has in the past, I'll go with the smarter fella.
And on D'Qwell Jackson... he was better last year with a few extra pounds (his playing weight in '08 was 240lbs. vs. 225 in '07). And, I think you're going to see a much different D'Qwell with a legitimate Ted backer on the strong side. Eric Barton is a smart, physical ballplayer. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with what the Browns get out of Jackson.
-jj
Right or wrong, Sintim and Veikune have similar measurables. They're about the same size, both run in the 4.75 - 4.80 range. They were both productive pass rushers. The difference, and there's really no debating this, is that Veikune is a much brighter guy.
Now, I don't know if that makes you a better football player (that is up for debate), but it doesn't hurt. And all things being equal, if I was going to run a defense the way Mangini has in the past, I'll go with the smarter fella.
And on D'Qwell Jackson... he was better last year with a few extra pounds (his playing weight in '08 was 240lbs. vs. 225 in '07). And, I think you're going to see a much different D'Qwell with a legitimate Ted backer on the strong side. Eric Barton is a smart, physical ballplayer. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with what the Browns get out of Jackson.
-jj
I certainly hope so...was high on him when we got him but I still haven't seen him stick anyone at the line of scrimmage....no big hits at all is a disappointment for me from a very high 2nd rounder, whom we traded a decent center for.
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For the love of god, Shut the hell up and root for another team....How in the hell can you rate this draft without even a regular season game being played. GMP i sure don't see you a GM of anyone except your fantasy football team, and I bet that is mediocre at best. We drafted a bunch of players that might contribute. Do you think that drafting a "potential" superstar would put us over the edge? One thing I have become customed to this board is the constant bitching....Let this play out........Enuff said....
For the love of god, Shut the hell up and root for another team....How in the hell can you rate this draft without even a regular season game being played. GMP i sure don't see you a GM of anyone except your fantasy football team, and I bet that is mediocre at best. We drafted a bunch of players that might contribute. Do you think that drafting a "potential" superstar would put us over the edge? One thing I have become customed to this board is the constant bitching....Let this play out........Enuff said....
do you think drafting a bunch of players that might contribute with #21,#36,#50 and #52....as a great draft?
4 picks in the first 50 better well damn contribute or its a freakin blown draft!
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For the love of god, Shut the hell up and root for another team....How in the hell can you rate this draft without even a regular season game being played. GMP i sure don't see you a GM of anyone except your fantasy football team, and I bet that is mediocre at best. We drafted a bunch of players that might contribute. Do you think that drafting a "potential" superstar would put us over the edge? One thing I have become customed to this board is the constant bitching....Let this play out........Enuff said....
do you think drafting a bunch of players that might contribute with #21,#36,#50 and #52....as a great draft?
4 picks in the first 50 better well damn contribute or its a freakin blown draft!
do you think drafting a bunch of players that might contribute with #21,#36,#50 and #52....as a great draft?
4 picks in the first 50 better well damn contribute or its a freakin blown draft!
21,36,50,52. That hurts way less than Couch #1, Brown #1, Warren #3.
Quantity over potential. Unless Sanchez turns into the next Joe Montana I like the trade down.
Yeah, Curry can't bust. Orapako can't bust. Fill in the blank can't bust. you bat .500 on your first and second rounders, you're ahead of the curve.
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do you think drafting a bunch of players that might contribute with #21,#36,#50 and #52....as a great draft?
4 picks in the first 50 better well damn contribute or its a freakin blown draft!
21,36,50,52. That hurts way less than Couch #1, Brown #1, Warren #3.
Quantity over potential. Unless Sanchez turns into the next Joe Montana I like the trade down.
Yeah, Curry can't bust. Orapako can't bust. Fill in the blank can't bust. you bat .500 on your first and second rounders, you're ahead of the curve.
21,36,50,52. That hurts way less than Couch #1, Brown #1, Warren #3.
Quantity over potential. Unless Sanchez turns into the next Joe Montana I like the trade down.
Yeah, Curry can't bust. Orapako can't bust. Fill in the blank can't bust. you bat .500 on your first and second rounders, you're ahead of the curve.
I get passing on Orakpo. There were concerns about his ability to transition to linebacker, which were pretty much validated by three 3-4 teams passing on him. On top of that, there were the durability issues.
But I think there has to be some limit to the "quantity over quality" argument. If you think a guy's the best player in the draft, I don't think you can pass on him. Sure, accumulating some average starters and good depth is great, but it doesn't justify passing on an immensely talented, high character player who'll be the leader of your defense for the next ten years. And from what I gather, the Browns weren't going to do that.
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21,36,50,52. That hurts way less than Couch #1, Brown #1, Warren #3.
Quantity over potential. Unless Sanchez turns into the next Joe Montana I like the trade down.
Yeah, Curry can't bust. Orapako can't bust. Fill in the blank can't bust. you bat .500 on your first and second rounders, you're ahead of the curve.
I get passing on Orakpo. There were concerns about his ability to transition to linebacker, which were pretty much validated by three 3-4 teams passing on him. On top of that, there were the durability issues.
But I think there has to be some limit to the "quantity over quality" argument. If you think a guy's the best player in the draft, I don't think you can pass on him. Sure, accumulating some average starters and good depth is great, but it doesn't justify passing on an immensely talented, high character player who'll be the leader of your defense for the next ten years. And from what I gather, the Browns weren't going to do that.
Aloysius said:
But I think there has to be some limit to the "quantity over quality" argument. If you think a guy's the best player in the draft, I don't think you can pass on him. Sure, accumulating some average starters and good depth is great, but it doesn't justify passing on an immensely talented, high character player who'll be the leader of your defense for the next ten years. And from what I gather, the Browns weren't going to do that.The interesting thing about this FO's first draft is that there seemed to be a mix of both taking quality first and making sure that there was quantity as well.
I think both Massaquoi and Veikune were both quality picks. Guys they had rated high and reached a bit for them due to the way the draft fell for them.
I think this draft speak volumes that this regime thinks this team can win now.
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21,36,50,52. That hurts way less than Couch #1, Brown #1, Warren #3.
Quantity over potential. Unless Sanchez turns into the next Joe Montana I like the trade down.
Yeah, Curry can't bust. Orapako can't bust. Fill in the blank can't bust. you bat .500 on your first and second rounders, you're ahead of the curve.
I get passing on Orakpo. There were concerns about his ability to transition to linebacker, which were pretty much validated by three 3-4 teams passing on him. On top of that, there were the durability issues.
But I think there has to be some limit to the "quantity over quality" argument. If you think a guy's the best player in the draft, I don't think you can pass on him. Sure, accumulating some average starters and good depth is great, but it doesn't justify passing on an immensely talented, high character player who'll be the leader of your defense for the next ten years. And from what I gather, the Browns weren't going to do that.
Aloysius said:
I get passing on Orakpo. There were concerns about his ability to transition to linebacker, which were pretty much validated by three 3-4 teams passing on him. On top of that, there were the durability issues.But I think there has to be some limit to the "quantity over quality" argument. If you think a guy's the best player in the draft, I don't think you can pass on him. Sure, accumulating some average starters and good depth is great, but it doesn't justify passing on an immensely talented, high character player who'll be the leader of your defense for the next ten years. And from what I gather, the Browns weren't going to do that.
Being solid at all positions is better than being great at a few. Depth is important. It's good to see that they're building the team like they want, instead of building it how the fans want.
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The way I see it -> the draft is over. Now let us get behind the team and cheer them as they try to win.
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I think you guys made Filet Mignon from ground beef with this draft. From my perspective, it was a reportedly weak draft class anyway, which would indicate a bigger chance of busting on high round picks. By spreading yours out among the mid to lower rounds (which include roughly the same calibre of player in any draft) you gave yourselves a much increased chance of finding a hidden gem, or at the very least a larger amount of competent backups for depth and a few developmental players.
It may not have been sexy (aside from 2 2nd round WR's), but it sure was functional. Help on both lines, a LB that probably would have recieved more attention if he hadn't been outshone by three day one LB's in college, two DB's with good measurables in the 6th, and an RB with a good upside that was projected much higher before a lukewarm Senior year.
I can definately see how not cashing in on the high round pick could be frustrating, but overall I think you were very solid. It is very hard to grade a draft without ever seeing the players perform, but for effort, potential, and what I think the FO's plan was going into the draft I would say A- to a B+
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